| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
20 Dec 2006 09:55:11 AM |
| Object: |
PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
From:pbamvv@worldonline.nl - view profile
Date:Sun, Dec 3 2006 11:10 am
Email: "pba...@worldonline.nl" <pba...@worldonline.nl>
Groups: alt.atheism
V schreef:
What are your beliefs in a soul, afterlife, reincarnation?
Myself? I am agnostic on these areas and study them.
V
I am a materialist.
The soul orginally meant the essence of life,
In the bible blood is mentioned as the soul of an animal.
As far as imortal souls are concenered,
they do not exist.
Afterlife?
My father thought one lived on in one's children.
As far as one's genes are concerned he was correct.
That is the physical afterlife
We also live on in the memory of others,
and if someone writes about us, we become somewhat immortal.
That is the spiritual afterlife.
reincarnation?
There is nothing to incarnate!
My wife is a Buddist and thus believes in it.
She wants to be born again and marry me oncemore.
Is told her I loved the idea, but do not believe in (re)incarnation.
PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism?
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
Hi Peter,
RE: What did you expect to find in alt atheism?
It is just where I ended up after being banned at the Christian and
Buddhist forums. I tried agnostic forums but not much participation.
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's participation
here.
Some of my history from an earlier post.
"Censorship...my history with prejudice."
(...) writes:
"Should we pursue all possible knowledge or should knowledge be
censored, edited, selected, maintained, and tampered with so as to
allow only that which best serves life? Or to put it differently: Is
ignorance true bliss? And if it is, should we will such ignorance so as
to better preserve our bliss? Of course, one then must invite the
question as to whether "bliss" is the final value, the final measure of
value of a life?"
V:
"The highest object that human beings can set before themselves is not
the pursuit of any such chimera as the annihilation of the unknown: it
is simply the unwearied endeavor to remove its boundaries a little
further from our little sphere of action." ~ Huxley
Yes, ignorance can be bliss, just as the bliss an alcoholic finds when
in their drunken stupor. The problem is not in the discussion of truth,
the only problem is when people try to 'block' the discussion of truth.
Prejudice, hatred and ill will can never yield true peace. These
actions of destruction require 'some thinking' on the part of the
person that seeks bliss through mind manacled ignorance and tries to
destroy others with their actions of destruction due to an insobriety
of personal opinions. There is nothing wrong with having personal
opinions, but when we use these opinions to destroy others, then it
does become very wrong.
The prejudiced, blind, small minded thinker cannot entertain
freethought as they must block or censor the ideas and concepts before
testing them for truth. Their ego will not allow it! Such people do not
operate on truth, they operate on ego. The difference between an
authority and an authoritarian is this. An authority speaks from a
place of truth and such speaks as an authority. Whereas an
authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth. For the truth stands on
it own and the authoritarian stands on their EGO. We all have to use
our ego when making value judgments, but the crossover come when the
ego is used as a weapon.
As Horace told us, "Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare
currunt--You can run away as far as you like but you'll never get away
from yourself." The person that lives by prejudice and hate carries it
with them wherever they go and eventually it rots them from the inside
out.
Let me give you a little background about myself and censorship.
I have been on about 210 forums over the last 9 years and have been
banned from about 70% of them due to prejudice. The vast majority of
these forums have been dedicated to personal improvement as well as
spiritual studies.
Now with Christian forums it is 100% ban rate and Buddhist forums is
90% ban and atheist forums it is about 85% - 90% ban.
But this ignorance is universal 'human' in nature.
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they
are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
Let me give you an example that has happened to me in the past.
In the bible it says "Test everything; hold fast to what is good;
abstain from every form of evil," (1 Thess. 5:21)
Taking from Christian, Buddhist and most other religions of the world I
discuss such tools in my posts no matter their source. When I talked
about this 'concept of testing' and related it to the Buddha's tool of
testing doctrine, but included this bible quote above, I was banned by
the Buddhists. Yet the Buddha also encouraged testing of his teachings
before adopting those teachings.
At a Christian forum, when I brought up the Buddha encourages testing
just as it was said in the bible, the Christian forums banned me.
Then at the atheist forums when I mention the Bible and the Buddha both
offered the tools of testing to help determine truth, the atheist sites
ban me.
Yet, all three groups like the idea of testing for truth, as long as
this idea comes from them and not from anyone else...many people
believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their
prejudices. Alan Watts use to say we define ourselves by our enemies.
We define ourselves by what we are not. He used the example of
'Beatniks and Squares' which were the in fad opposites back in his day.
So of course it is natural for these groups to view themselves as polar
opposites.
We should always be interested in finding truth and peace. If our way
is not working then some other way may help. It is good to test and see
the results and not get caught up in prejudice blocking the way. For
with such tests, 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating' and
decisions on how to live will not be left only to your ego, but will be
grounded in peace.
The three unwholesome roots of delusions, greed and hate are very basic
to a a Buddhist practice. Out of these three, delusion is the
foundational root, for without seeing delusions for what they are, you
cannot distinguish the other two unwholesome roots of greed and hate.
People suffer from delusions in all form and not just deity worship.
Atheism, while freeing ones mind to think, but it does not guarantee
one thinks right and acts right. This is the importance of replacing
wrong religious beliefs with right thinking and right living.
For instance, I was banned from many 'so called' Buddhist sites such as
Esangha, Tricycle, Shambhala, Buddha Chat, 12 step Buddhists,
Sangha-Pauahtun, eBuddhism, etc even though I have been a freethinking
Buddhist for nearly a decade. Some people claiming to be Buddhist think
all they have to is shave their heads, adopt a silly name, be a
vegetarians and burn incense to be a Buddhists...all the while they are
doing great harm to others, Which is how it is with many Buddhist
forums that are 'for profit' and run by 'spiritually sick' individuals.
Currently, it is a sad state of affairs with such online Buddhist
groups.
I've been on dozens of Christian forums and I have perfect record at
the Christian forums...100% banned...and I was a Christian myself at
that time I tried to join them years ago.
I was able to finagle my way back into one Christian forum though:
http://www.christianforums.com/index.php
But I could only stay if I claimed to be an atheist...and I do not post
much and keep my mouth shut...and if I do post it has to be something
non consequential. Also I am not allowed to post with the Christians. I
can only post to the atheists. I like that forum as it reminds me of
the 'sickness of attachment,' so that is why I put up with all the
prejudice. At that forum you can 'buy your armor' to outfit your avatar
to shield you from evil and 'trade blessings' with each other.
The Billy Graham and Catholic forums banned me after my first
posts...then they solicit me for months on end asking for money. I
don't know whether to laugh or cry?
Charity? Humility? Reciprocity? Freedom of Faith? Truth? And of
course...Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself????
I'm afraid Christians don't practice what they preach...at least at
their forums. (Even the Buddhist whose mantra is 'Do No Harm' ban me
90% of the time at their forums, so they are only a little better than
the Christians.)
Atheist forums are not much better at freethinking. Been banned at evil
bible dot com, ethical atheist, Internet infidels, X-Christians and
others.
How do I find peace with all this prejudice?
By knowing
"With the same material one man builds a palace and another only a
hovel." Russell Cromwell.
and accepting people are not perfect, nor am I perfect which is just as
the Taoists tell us: "fleas come with the dog."
So, my vote?
Seek truth and realize that as Aristotle told us: "It is the mark of an
educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it
and to rest satisfied with the degree of precision which the nature of
the subject admits and not to seek exactness where only an
approximation is possible."
Good Luck,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
21 Dec 2006 11:11:31 AM |
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On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:55:11 -0800, V wrote:
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's participation
here.
***** you're delusional.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
21 Dec 2006 01:13:39 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo skrev:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:55:11 -0800, V wrote:
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's participation
here.
***** you're delusional.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
More likely he is just another ***** who enjoys being annoying.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
22 Dec 2006 08:54:15 PM |
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On 21 Dec 2006 11:13:39 -0800, "thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo skrev:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:55:11 -0800, V wrote:
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's participation
here.
***** you're delusional.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
More likely he is just another ***** who enjoys being annoying.
The only ***** that annoys me is a cute one that's just beyond groping range.
:-#
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who we were is meaningless in the face of who we are, and
who we are is but a stepping stone to who we shall become
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
22 Dec 2006 10:16:37 AM |
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:13:39 -0800, thomas p. wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo skrev:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:55:11 -0800, V wrote:
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's
participation here.
***** you're delusional.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
More likely he is just another ***** who enjoys being annoying.
No, I think we're seeing the real thing. Found an interesting description
of the sociopath that really fits V:
"Sociopaths only care about fulfilling their own needs and desires -
selfishness and egocentricity to the extreme. Everything and everybody
else is mentally twisted around in their minds as objects to be used in
fulfilling their own needs and desires. They often believe they are doing
something good for society, or at least nothing that bad."
Sums him up perfectly...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
------------------------------------------------------------
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due
to the absence, from Jerusalem, of a lunatic asylum.
-Havelock Ellis
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: PS What did you expect to find in alt atheism? Peter |
24 Dec 2006 10:40:40 AM |
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V schreef:
<snip my own answer typ another thread V started>
Hi Peter,
RE: What did you expect to find in alt atheism?
It is just where I ended up after being banned at the Christian and
Buddhist forums. I tried agnostic forums but not much participation.
I am very happy at alt.atheists as the members are willing to have
discussions along spiritual lines. Thanks for everyone's participation
here.
<snip "Some of my history from an earlier post.">
I am very surprised !
Most replies to your posts, are a little offensif claiming you are
stupid or worse.
I didn't expect you to be happy about that.
As for Atheists talking along spirituals lines,
I am even more surprised to see you mentioning that,
in reply to a materialist.
I can believe you have been banned my moderated forums,
but I doubt wether you have been banned for ther reason you think.
I have a feeling you have been banned for being a nuissance instead:)
I will be off the NG for a while, as my computes goes in repair again.
I hope to be back in januari.
So happy holidays
and a happy new year!
Peter van Velzen
December 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
Amste
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