| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
20 Feb 2006 11:34:58 PM |
| Object: |
PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry
by Celeste McGovern
Aborted fetuses are being dissected alive, harvested and sold in pieces to
fuel a vast research enterprise
The doctor walked into the lab and set a steel pan on the table. "Got you
some good specimens," he said. "Twins." The technician looked down at a pair
of perfectly formed 24-week-old fetuses moving and gasping for air. Except
for a few nicks from the surgical tongs that had pulled them out, they
seemed uninjured. "There's something wrong here," the technician stammered.
"They are moving. I don't do this. That's not in my contract." She watched
the doctor take a bottle of sterile water and fill the pan until the water
ran up over the babies' mouths and noses. Then she left the room. "I would
not watch those fetuses moving," she recalls. "That's when I decided it was
wrong."
The technician uses the pseudonym "Kelly." She has her back to the camera,
she wears a wig, and her voice is electronically modified because she says
she fears for her life. Until a few months ago Kelly worked for a Maryland
company called the Anatomic Gift Foundation. Her job was to procure fetal
tissue for research. She worked at a Planned Parenthood clinic that was also
a member of the National Abortion Federation. Her interview appears on the
May issue of "Life Talk" video magazine-the first of a monthly series of
videos released by Life Dynamics Inc., a renegade pro-life group based in
Denton, Texas, that admits to having spies work in abortion clinics to
uncover their most closely guarded secrets.
This week the group is releasing the documentary evidence it has gathered
since Kelly approached them nearly two years ago. Life Dynamics has dozens
of order forms from researchers requesting fetal parts, price lists for
fetal organs and tissue, and donation consent forms for women undergoing
abortion. It offers a gruesome glimpse at a vast trade in human tissue from
babies that are aborted, and sometimes vivisected, to satiate the exploding
multibillion-dollar biotechnology industry.
The traffic in tissue flows worldwide into respected tax- funded
laboratories, including Canadian ones. The research itself is usually for
laudable goals, from helping prenatal infants survive to curing Parkinson's
disease. But the trade, worth billions, raises myriad ethical questions: Are
some humans being killed to benefit others? Are women being exploited to
support tissue collection? Who is profiting from the trade? And what are the
social implications of its existence?
Once the stuff of cheap science-fiction, human clones, artificial wombs and
human-animal cross-species are all now serious possibilities. Sexless
procreation is already a reality with in vitro fertilization. Selective
breeding of human beings is commonplace thanks to embryo screening and
"genetic terminations." And human-human brain cell transplants are
government-funded. All of these endeavours rely on aborted fetuses.
Scientists have used fetal tissue in research since at least the 1930s, says
Pittsburgh researcher Suzanne Rini, author of the 1993 book Beyond Abortion:
A Chronicle of Fetal Experimentation. Thirty years ago, as abortion laws
were relaxing and some second- and third-trimester abortions were performed
by hysterotomy (essentially a Caesarean section), experiments on live
fetuses were cutting-edge technology. Geoffrey Chamberlain received a
professional award for research (outlined in the March 1968 issue of The
American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology) in which he took live aborted
fetuses, attached them to an artificial placenta, perfused them to see if he
could make them live, and then pulled the plug on them. No one objected.
It was shortly after that article, Mrs. Rini notes, that the Cambridge
Evening Post featured a story on Lawrence Lawn, a physician who did manage
to provoke controversy when it was learned that he was procuring live
fetuses from a private abortion clinic. "We are simply allowing something
which is destined for the incinerator to benefit mankind," he said, obliging
a photographer with a picture of himself standing next to a dying fetus
suspended in a perfusion tank. Yet even Dr. Lawn believed there were limits.
"Of course we would not dream of experimenting with a viable child. We would
not consider that to be right." With the decriminalization of abortion in
the 1970s, fetal research became, in the words one ethicist, a "golden
opportunity" for researchers. The public almost never heard about fetal
experimentation. But by the 1980s, some of the most macabre research was
being publicly funded. Mrs. Rini catalogues experiments ranging from the
perfusion of impaled beating fetal hearts with adrenaline and caffeine to
eye-tissue transplants and skin grafting. Dr. Bernard Gondos of the
University of Connecticut at Farmington, whose research on fetal gonads
described most of his specimens as "previable dead," lamented having to
import fetuses from outside the United States. Dr. Karen Holbrook of the
University of Washington received a $239,740 grant in 1984-85 for her work
on "Fetal Skin Biology" using first-, second- and third-trimester human
fetuses. She told Mrs. Rini: "Hopefully they are not born alive. It's better
to avoid that. The skin is taken after fetal demise." Asked if the skin
diseases she was trying to diagnose prenatally were fatal, Dr. Holbrook
replied, "No, but they ruin your life."
By the 1980s transplants had become entrenched, and fetal tissue, which
grows quickly and is less likely to trigger an immune reaction in a host,
became even more coveted. Fetal tissue transplants became part of efforts to
treat diabetes, Huntington's disease, blindness, spinal cord injury,
Parkinson's disease, leukemia and more. In 1988, U.S. president George Bush
banned federal funding of fetal human-to-human transplants. This move was
widely mistaken for a ban on all fetal tissue research; in fact, most such
research carried on unimpeded. In any case, Bill Clinton's first official
act as president in 1993 was to strike down the ban. People were demanding
to be "treated" with fetuses. California lawyer Joan Samuelson had founded
the Parkinson Action Network (PAN) in 1990 to lobby for an end to the
moratorium. "Will lifting the ban save us in time?" she asked when it was
abolished, and she began lobbying for an accelerated grant review process
for fetal-tissue transplant research.
Transplants of brain tissue from young fetuses (usually aborted at less than
10 weeks) into Parkinson's sufferers have attracted the most public
attention to fetal tissue research. In 1990 the results of Olle Lindvall's
research team's transplants into four Swedish patients were hailed as
"promising" because one recipient appeared to have benefited remarkably. The
other patients were not monitored long enough to determine the grafts'
effects.
Neuroscientists presenting findings at the XIII International Congress on
Parkinson's Disease in Vancouver last month sounded optimistic, but their
data was not the knockout blow Parkinson's researchers have been hoping for.
Thomas Freeman of the University of South Florida reported that 360 patients
have received human tissue transplants in 17 centres worldwide to date. But
the variables researchers use to evaluate success differ so widely as to be
incomparable, so he focused on the results of his own "open trial" on six
patients, which he admitted was open to placebo effects and observer bias.
The only fetal tissue transplant study to be performed with a control group
so far was published in April by Curt Freed of the University of Colorado
and Stanley Fahn of Columbia Presbyterian. They followed two sets of
patients: those who actually received neural fetal cells and those who had
their heads opened for a sham surgery in an attempt to eliminate the placebo
effect. Although the Medical Post headlined the research story "Parkinson's
progress," and the New York Times proclaimed, "Hints of success in fetal
cell transplants," Dr. Paul Ranalli, a professor of neurology at the
University of Toronto, calls the research "hugely unimpressive." The only
benefits were bestowed on patients under age 60, he notes, and the vast
majority of Parkinson's patients are senior citizens. Even in those cases,
he adds, "a magnifying glass is required to discern any functional benefit."
What is more, Dr. Fahn told the Vancouver congress that he was disturbed by
an unexpected outcome of the trial: facial "runaway dyskinesias"
(involuntary muscle movements) which were particularly severe in the younger
patients. Other researchers have noted similar findings, says Dr. Freeman.
As with drugs, there could be a dose at which fetal cells "may be harmful,"
he said.
Procedures on more Parkinson's patients will help clarify these findings.
Dr. Freeman told the attendees that Canada is leading the way in these
experiments, primarily at the lab of Dr. Ivar Mendez at Dalhousie University
in Halifax. Dr. Mendez, who declined an interview last week, received a
$90,042 grant from the Medical Research Council of Canada for 1999-2000. His
transplant data is anticipated soon.
At the advent of the new millennium it is "pleuripotent" embryonic stem
cells that are at the forefront of fetal tissue research. Ethicists are
already distinguishing between using human embryos "left over" from in vitro
fertilization and humans created specifically for research. "Farmed" embryos
are capable of differentiating into many types of tissue and are being
hailed as new sources for whole organs for donation, and for human clones.
As bright as all the research may sound, others discern a darker side. There
is no law on fetal tissue collection-only guidelines. Researchers are free
to hold to them or ignore them. And where laws do exist-such as the ones
against infanticide and the sale of human tissue-there are ways around them,
and they are sometimes broken outright.
Kelly explains that the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic she was working
in received a service fee from the Anatomic Gift Foundation for its tissue
"donations." "We were never employees of the abortion clinic," she explains.
"We would have a contract with an abortion clinic that would allow us to go
in...[to] procure fetal tissue for research. We would get a generated list
each day to tell us what tissue researchers, pharmaceuticals and
universities were looking for. Then we would go and look at the particular
patient charts-we had to screen out anyone who had STDs or fetal anomalies.
These had to be the most perfect specimens we could give these researchers
for the best value that we could sell for." Probably only 10% of fetuses
were ruled out for anomalies, she adds. The rest were "healthy donors."
Fetuses ranged in age from seven weeks to 30 weeks and beyond. Typically,
Kelly harvested tissue from 30 to 40 "late" fetuses each week. "We were
taking eyes, livers, brains, thymuses, and especially cardiac blood...even
blood from the limbs that we would get from the veins," she says.
Researchers used their own shipping firms-"UPS, Fedex or a special courier,"
she adds. "We would take it in a box and put it on as regular cargo.
Sometimes it would be an intact fetus or it might be a batch of eyes or 30
to 40 livers going out that day, or thymuses. Whatever it was, there were
mass quantities of it going out." To support this claim, Life Dynamics
provides copies of dozens of order forms for fetal parts from North American
researchers. They contain names of researchers, universities and
pharmaceutical companies, day and evening telephone numbers, courier account
numbers, the type of tissue requested, preferred gestational age of the
fetus, and other details.
A sample, from a scientist studying the "Biochemical Characterization of
human type X Collagen," requests "Whole intact leg, include entire hip
joint, 22-24 weeks gest." The extractor is directed to "dissect by cutting
through symphasis pubis and include whole Illium [hip joint]. To be removed
from fetal cadaver within 10 minutes."
One order form carries the name of the University of British Columbia's Dr.
Vanugram Venkatesh alongside a request for an international Fedex shipment
of "16-24 week lungs (trachea not required)" to study "molecular mechanisms
of fluid reabsorption in human fetal lung." "Significance: Respiratory
Distress Syndrome...a major cause of death in premature infants." The memo
adds: "Bill our account."
Contacted last week at his Vancouver office, Dr. Vankatesh said that he did
do research on immature lungs two years ago, with a Medical Research Council
grant, at the B.C. Children's Hospital. But he added, "I don't do that
anymore." Asked if he used human tissue, he replied, "Yeah," then changed
his mind. "Well, we were doing genetics mainly...Where are you getting your
information? We were using cell lines." Asked if he had ever ordered fetal
lungs from the U.S., he said, "I have to go," and hung up abruptly.
"These researchers don't want to see the whole baby," says Life Dynamics'
Dzintra Tuttle. "That's gruesome. That would freak them out. They think they
're about higher medicine that is serving a cause-not about dead babies." On
their video, Life Dynamics asks Kelly if the abortionist at the clinic ever
deliberately altered procedure to procure tissue. "Yes," she replies. "All
the limbs, the arms, the head, the chest cavity were never invaded. They
were all completely intact. Sometimes, the fetus appeared to be dead, but
when you'd open up the chest cavity you'd see the heart beating."
The clinic used the partial-birth abortion technique for later pregnancies:
the doctor grasps hold of a fetus leg with tongs and pulls the entire baby,
except for the head, feet-first and face down out of the mother. Then he
punctures the base of the skull with scissors, inserts a cannula to suck out
the brain, and slides the head out. It is a three-day procedure requiring
that women be inserted with laminaria, seaweed cervix dilators, beforehand.
Were women ever coerced into the procedure? Kelly says that sometimes,
before the final surgery, on the third day "you could blatantly hear them in
the halls saying they wanted to change their minds." But they were sedated,
in what Kelly calls a "Nyquil nap," which made it difficult to protest.
Sometimes the IV was turned up; in any case, the woman always had the
abortion.
Routinely, the women would go into labour before the final surgery. "They
were coming out alive," says Kelly. Aside from the incident with the twins,
she says, there were three to four live births in a typical two-week period.
"The doctor would either break the neck or take a pair of tongs and
basically beat the fetus until it was dead."
As incredible as Kelly's testimony seems, other sources corroborate it. Eric
Harrah worked in the abortion industry for 11 years, leaving it 18 months
ago. He managed and owned or partially owned 26 American abortion clinics.
Live births, he tells Life Dynamics, were the industry's "dirty little
secret." "It was always very disturbing, so the doctor would try to conceal
it from the rest of the staff," he says, but one incident is hard for him to
forget.
The woman in question was 26 weeks pregnant. She had laminaria inserted,
signed paperwork agreeing not to call anyone but the clinic if she went into
labour, and was sent to a motel up the road to await her procedure the next
day. She was brought to the clinic in the middle of the night, carrying her
fetus in a white cotton hotel towel.
"I was in the scrub room when I saw the towel move," says Mr. Harrah. "A
nurse said, 'Eric, you're just tired. It's three in the morning.' Then we
both looked and a little baby's arm raised up out of the towel and was
moving like a newborn baby. I screamed and ran out. The doctor came in and
closed the door and when we went back in to process the baby out of the
clinic into the lab, [the baby] had a puncture wound in his chest."
Evidence of the demand for late-term fetal tissue can be corroborated apart
from Life Dynamics. The National Institutes for Health operate a Laboratory
for Embryology at the University of Washington in Seattle that runs a 24-
hour collection service at abortion clinics. An advertisement in the March
1994 NIH Guide still appears on the Internet, offering to "supply tissue
from normal or abnormal embryos and fetuses of desired gestational ages
between 40 days and term. Specimens are obtained within minutes of
passage... and immediately processed according to the requirements of
individual investigators...Specimens are shipped by overnight express."
Mark Crutcher, president of Life Dynamics, is now convinced that the
research demand for intact late-term fetal organs is the hidden truth behind
the partial-birth abortion controversy. In state after state this year,
partial- birth abortion bans written into state laws by legislatures have
been vehemently opposed by pro-choice groups and overturned by courts. "Why
do pro-aborts fight so hard to keep it?" asks Mr. Crutcher. "All it says is
you can't kill them by this method. It doesn't prevent them from getting any
other kind of abortion. This is about maximizing profits. First, you sell
the woman an abortion. Then you turn around and sell the dead baby you take
out of her. But you have to take it out whole or you don't have anything to
sell."
"It has nothing to do with the woman's right to choose or with protecting
the sanctity of the right of abortion," agrees Mr. Harrah. "It has
everything to do with protecting the sanctity of the fullness of the
abortionist's wallet. This is the only type of abortion procedure that doesn
't cost them to get rid of the dead baby. They actually make money."
Apart from abortionists and the wholesalers who traffic in aborted baby
parts (see story, page 34), who stands to profit from this fetal research?
Of the pharmaceutical companies sponsoring it, Mr. Crutcher says: "I don't
think there's one that's not involved." He surmises they are investing in
the future. Baby boomers are aging, and about to start falling apart. A
practical treatment for Parkinson's would be lucrative. "Just look at
Viagra," says Mr. Crutcher. (In Canada alone, the little blue impotence pill
sold 20,600 prescriptions worth $1.55 million in its first week on the
market) "That's just a hint of the fortunes awaiting drug manufacturers
pandering to boomers' quest for youth. They're the wealthiest generation in
the history of the world. And also the most narcissistic. They want to live
forever." And fetuses are the new human scrap heap. Says Mr. Crutcher: "We'
re going to kill the very young to treat the very old." Perhaps, but Mrs.
Rini offers hope of a wrinkle in the plan. "Does the fetus' aliveness, which
is coveted by researchers, and ability to sponsor life for others,
ironically but actually prove the fetus' own life?" she writes. She cites
ethicist Paul Ramsey: "Far from abortion settling the question of fetal
research, it could be that sober reflection on the use of the human fetus in
research could unsettle the abortion issue."
Steven Bamforth is a geneticist who operates a fetal tissue repository at
the University of Alberta Hospital in Edmonton. He and his researchers have
the difficult task of sorting through 10- to 12-week fetal remains from
abortion clinics in Edmonton and Winnipeg, dissecting recognizable body
parts for hearts and eyes, extracting messenger ribonucleic acid and
shipping it to other geneticists at the Universities of Toronto and British
Columbia. "The humanity is always before us," Dr. Bamforth told this
magazine last year. "If society said this research is not acceptable, of
course, we would immediately desist. It's not something that I do happily."
--
"Honesty, Integrity, Compassion, and Decency"
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
25 Feb 2006 06:46:56 PM |
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"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1201sipqcgtpl89@news.supernews.com:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote
In article <120005hejam7688@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-0E6023.20553924022006@individual.net...
In article <11vvdv8a2s2beb6@news.supernews.com>,
inferior "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> "Ditch's" superior
i know.
You
yes,
Yes, you are a deluded, useless bozo.
Sounds like a self-description, Douche.
You are contributing LESS THAN
ZERO to this discussion.
Yep, that's you all right Douche.
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 01:52:44 AM |
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|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or
medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of people
who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of view. You don't
help the cause of personal freedom for women *one bit*. To do that you would
have to persuade someone that your point of view is more valid than theirs.
But that takes intelligence, thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to
articulate ideas, all abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate.
Name-calling and hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more
entrenched. Even someone like me who is actually in favour of informed
choice is turned off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves
one purpose and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and
self-gratification. You obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right
to abortion.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 12:24:36 PM |
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"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point of
view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even
someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned
off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You
obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are degenerate anti-choice loons like you posting here
Douche, we pro-choice advocates will stand together against you. The
mere fact that a scumbag anti-choice loser like you doesn't approve of
the way I exhibit my pro-choice thoughts and feelings must mean that I am
doing something right for our good cause.
.
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 07:30:14 PM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point of
view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even
someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned
off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You
obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into the
drain.
.
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|
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 07:41:41 PM |
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|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1204lh6gp313o82@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point
of view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched.
Even someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is
turned off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves
one purpose and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and
self-gratification. You obviously don't give a rat's ***** about
women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into
the drain.
Forging your own words and meanings over mine again, huh Puke? Typical
anti-choice sleaze.
.
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|
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| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 05:49:08 AM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns9776B41F7C211SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1204lh6gp313o82@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point
of view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched.
Even someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is
turned off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves
one purpose and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and
self-gratification. You obviously don't give a rat's ***** about
women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into
the drain.
Forging your own words and meanings over mine again, huh Puke? Typical
anti-choice sleaze.
Nope, I didn't do that. I just snipped your ***** in mid-sentence. If you
don't like it then stop posting *****.
.
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|
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| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 11:27:06 AM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1205ppk6r9btd7b@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9776B41F7C211SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1204lh6gp313o82@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment
of people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points
of view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women
*one bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your
point of view is more valid than theirs. But that takes
intelligence, thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to
articulate ideas, all abilities you are too fucking lazy to
cultivate. Name-calling and hurling insults is easy but simply
makes people more entrenched. Even someone like me who is actually
in favour of informed choice is turned off by your behaviour. No,
everything you are doing serves one purpose and one only, lazy-*****
BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You obviously don't
give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into
the drain.
Forging your own words and meanings over mine again, huh Puke?
Typical anti-choice sleaze.
Nope, I didn't do that.
Yes you did Douche, the proof is just above.
I just snipped your ***** in mid-sentence.
....and put your own words where mine were cut out. That's forging you
moron.
If you don't like it then stop posting *****.
Says Douche the bull.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
28 Feb 2006 05:33:01 AM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns97776072583EBSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1205ppk6r9btd7b@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9776B41F7C211SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1204lh6gp313o82@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment
of people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points
of view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women
*one bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your
point of view is more valid than theirs. But that takes
intelligence, thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to
articulate ideas, all abilities you are too fucking lazy to
cultivate. Name-calling and hurling insults is easy but simply
makes people more entrenched. Even someone like me who is actually
in favour of informed choice is turned off by your behaviour. No,
everything you are doing serves one purpose and one only, lazy-*****
BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You obviously don't
give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into
the drain.
Forging your own words and meanings over mine again, huh Puke?
Typical anti-choice sleaze.
Nope, I didn't do that.
Yes you did Douche, the proof is just above.
I just snipped your ***** in mid-sentence.
...and put your own words where mine were cut out. That's forging you
moron.
No it's not. And don't add whining to your list of unpleasant qualities..
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
28 Feb 2006 09:46:22 AM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1208d7drc96de40@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97776072583EBSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1205ppk6r9btd7b@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9776B41F7C211SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1204lh6gp313o82@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced
with unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal
harrassment of people who dispute your arguments or disagree
with your points of view. You don't help the cause of personal
freedom for women *one bit*. To do that you would have to
persuade someone that your point of view is more valid than
theirs. But that takes intelligence, thoughtfulness, patience,
and the ability to articulate ideas, all abilities you are too
fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and hurling insults is
easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even someone like
me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned off by
your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and
self-gratification. You obviously don't give a rat's ***** about
women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide
into the drain.
Forging your own words and meanings over mine again, huh Puke?
Typical anti-choice sleaze.
Nope, I didn't do that.
Yes you did Douche, the proof is just above.
I just snipped your ***** in mid-sentence.
...and put your own words where mine were cut out. That's forging
you moron.
No it's not. And don't add whining to your list of unpleasant
qualities..
And add lying to your's Douche.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 08:01:24 PM |
|
|
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point of
view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even
someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned
off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You
obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into the
Notice that pro-liar Dutch snips and runs.
Usually he spews ***** and runs. He must be getting more
desperate.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 05:56:09 AM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025d74$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point of
view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even
someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned
off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You
obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into the
Notice that pro-liar Dutch snips and runs.
From what? Your lame *****?
Usually
Usually I show you a lot of patience. I don't know why I bother.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 11:30:23 AM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1205q6om2qhqu50@news.supernews.com:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025d74$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment
of people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points
of view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women
*one bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your
point of view is more valid than theirs. But that takes
intelligence, thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to
articulate ideas, all abilities you are too fucking lazy to
cultivate. Name-calling and hurling insults is easy but simply
makes people more entrenched. Even someone like me who is actually
in favour of informed choice is turned off by your behaviour. No,
everything you are doing serves one purpose and one only, lazy-*****
BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You obviously don't
give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into
the
Notice that pro-liar Dutch snips and runs.
From what? Your lame *****?
From logic and truth, Douche.
Usually
Usually I show you a lot of patience. I don't know why I bother.
Probably because you are an idiot who doesn't know any better, Douche.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 11:17:41 AM |
|
|
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44025d74$0$58112$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns97766A04D72ABSD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202nid1jtlnae1@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with
unwanted or medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of
view. You don't help the cause of personal freedom for women *one
bit*. To do that you would have to persuade someone that your point of
view is more valid than theirs. But that takes intelligence,
thoughtfulness, patience, and the ability to articulate ideas, all
abilities you are too fucking lazy to cultivate. Name-calling and
hurling insults is easy but simply makes people more entrenched. Even
someone like me who is actually in favour of informed choice is turned
off by your behaviour. No, everything you are doing serves one purpose
and one only, lazy-***** BOB's entertainment and self-gratification. You
obviously don't give a rat's ***** about women's right to abortion.
As long as there are
idiots like you, the pro-choice movement will continue to slide into the
Notice that pro-liar Dutch snips and runs.
From what? Your lame *****?
Like most control freaks you blame everybody but yourself for your own
dishonesty, incompetance, and immorality.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 02:01:09 AM |
|
|
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or
medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of people
who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of view.
"Verbal harrassment" should be read as "refuting wild claims with the
facts."
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 03:59:13 AM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or
medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people
who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of view.
"Verbal harrassment" should be read as "refuting wild claims with the
facts."
Should be, but it isn't, it's name-calling, personal insults, and imputing
of motives, sometimes mixed with personal perspective and opinions, rarely
including facts. You do NOTHING useful to advance the cause of women's
choice, you just degrade and disgrace it and exploit the issue to gratify
your own desire to demean others.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 12:26:45 PM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1202uvjetg69420@news.supernews.com:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or
medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people
who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of view.
"Verbal harrassment" should be read as "refuting wild claims with the
facts."
Should be, but it isn't, it's name-calling, personal insults, and
imputing of motives, sometimes mixed with personal perspective and
opinions, rarely including facts. You do NOTHING useful to advance the
cause of women's choice, you just degrade and disgrace it and exploit
the issue to gratify your own desire to demean others.
You degenerate anti-choice loons only get what you so richly deserve
Douche, so either change your ways or quit crying.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 07:25:37 PM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
You degenerate anti-choice loons only get what you so richly deserve
Douche, so either change your ways or quit crying.
It doesn't work that way, BOOB. First of all, I'm not anti choice, secondly,
verbal abuse doesn't win the day, it's just light entertainment for you as
your cause goes down the drain..
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 07:38:59 PM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1204l8hib0vae23@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
You degenerate anti-choice loons only get what you so richly deserve
Douche, so either change your ways or quit crying.
It doesn't work that way, BOOB. First of all, I'm not anti choice,
secondly, verbal abuse doesn't win the day, it's just light
entertainment for you as your cause goes down the drain..
Lying seems to come easy for you Douche. We can read your anti-choice ng
posts and responses and yet you try to claim that you are not. Idiot.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 05:47:23 AM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns9776B3AA29E39SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1204l8hib0vae23@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
You degenerate anti-choice loons only get what you so richly deserve
Douche, so either change your ways or quit crying.
It doesn't work that way, BOOB. First of all, I'm not anti choice,
secondly, verbal abuse doesn't win the day, it's just light
entertainment for you as your cause goes down the drain..
Lying seems to come easy for you Douche.
I've always been a poor liar, that's why I don't join the pro-choice goon
squad.
We can read your anti-choice ng
posts
Show me ONE instance where I expressed the opinion that women should not
maintain the right of choice. Then I'll graciously accept your apology.
and responses and yet you try to claim that you are not. Idiot.
There's a difference between supporting choice for pregnant women and
climbing on the goon squad's bonehead bandwagon of lies and denial.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 11:24:34 AM |
|
|
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:1205pmbbgkb0m47@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9776B3AA29E39SD@70.169.32.36...
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in
news:1204l8hib0vae23@news.supernews.com:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
You degenerate anti-choice loons only get what you so richly
deserve Douche, so either change your ways or quit crying.
It doesn't work that way, BOOB. First of all, I'm not anti choice,
secondly, verbal abuse doesn't win the day, it's just light
entertainment for you as your cause goes down the drain..
Lying seems to come easy for you Douche.
I've always been a poor liar,
....but a liar nonetheless.
that's why I don't join the pro-choice
goon squad.
You aren't fooling anyone here Douche. You don't join the pro-choice camp
because you are a jsut another slimy anti-choice loon
We can read your anti-choice ng
posts
Show me ONE instance where I expressed the opinion that women should
not maintain the right of choice.
Don't you even read your own posts and responses, Douche?
Then I'll graciously accept your
apology.
Expect an apology in one hand and defecate in the other hand Douche, then
come back and tell us which hand gets full the fastest.
and responses and yet you try to claim that you are not. Idiot.
There's a difference between supporting choice for pregnant women and
climbing on the goon squad's bonehead bandwagon of lies and denial.
But lies and denial are all you have Douche.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 10:00:13 AM |
|
|
In article <1205pmbbgkb0m47@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 05:56:57 PM |
|
|
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-8BE02A.11001327022006@individual.net...
In article <1205pmbbgkb0m47@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james. I'll check in on you from
time to time to see if you come up with anything worth responding to.
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 05:59:24 PM |
|
|
In article <12074e9it2864c0@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-8BE02A.11001327022006@individual.net...
In article <1205pmbbgkb0m47@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james.
you do seem to run away quite often.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 06:24:05 PM |
|
|
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in news:jgkeegan-
4851FE.18592427022006@individual.net:
In article <12074e9it2864c0@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-8BE02A.11001327022006@individual.net...
In article <1205pmbbgkb0m47@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james.
you do seem to run away quite often.
Since he never has any facts or truth to back him up, Douche has no options
but to run and hide (for awhile). He will be back with more lies and
deceit when he can think of some more.
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
27 Feb 2006 06:49:59 PM |
|
|
In article <Xns9777A725216AASD@70.169.32.36>, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in news:jgkeegan-
4851FE.18592427022006@individual.net:
In article <12074e9it2864c0@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james.
you do seem to run away quite often.
Since he never has any facts or truth to back him up, Douche has no options
but to run and hide (for awhile). He will be back with more lies and
deceit when he can think of some more.
oh he's a lightweight. i doubt he'll be around long.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dutch" |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
28 Feb 2006 05:31:57 AM |
|
|
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-3476F6.19495927022006@individual.net...
In article <Xns9777A725216AASD@70.169.32.36>, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in news:jgkeegan-
4851FE.18592427022006@individual.net:
In article <12074e9it2864c0@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james.
you do seem to run away quite often.
Since he never has any facts or truth to back him up, Douche has no
options
but to run and hide (for awhile). He will be back with more lies and
deceit when he can think of some more.
oh he's a lightweight. i doubt he'll be around long.
What's a heavyweight in keegans' world, someone who hangs around forever and
never says anything?
By that measure you are a mammouth.
.
|
|
|
| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
28 Feb 2006 07:39:43 AM |
|
|
In article <1208d5d4obbg731@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jgkeegan-3476F6.19495927022006@individual.net...
In article <Xns9777A725216AASD@70.169.32.36>, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in news:jgkeegan-
4851FE.18592427022006@individual.net:
In article <12074e9it2864c0@news.supernews.com>,
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:
I've always been a poor liar
you certainly try hard enough.
I'm going to leave you to talk to yourself james.
you do seem to run away quite often.
Since he never has any facts or truth to back him up, Douche has no
options
but to run and hide (for awhile). He will be back with more lies and
deceit when he can think of some more.
oh he's a lightweight. i doubt he'll be around long.
What's a heavyweight in keegans' world
all of the people whom you've run away from.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 11:52:18 AM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote
Legitimate supporters of choice, or any
issue, *cringe* that people like you, BOB, and Ray Fischer are
involved, ostensibly "on their side".
Yes Douche, we pro-choice advocates fight for the good cause of
protecting
the liberty and personal freedom for women faced with unwanted or
medically
impaired pregnancies. It's also called bodily autonomy.
No you don't. All you do is engage in mindless verbal harrassment of
people
who dispute your arguments or disagree with your points of view.
"Verbal harrassment" should be read as "refuting wild claims with the
facts."
Should be, but it isn't,
Of course it is. Your standard tactic is to make a claim that
contradicts known facts and then insist that you're right and every
who disagrees with you must be stupid or dishonest.
Then, when people call you a liar because of your repeated falsehoods,
you then whine about ...
it's name-calling, personal insults, and imputing
of motives, sometimes mixed with personal perspective and opinions
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Dutch" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 07:23:41 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote
Your standard tactic is to make a claim that
contradicts known facts
Your standard tactic is to refer to your perceptions as "known facts" and
refer to other people's perceptions as "wild claims", funny how that works
out in the twisted mind of an equivocating liar like you.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: PSA: Secrets of the Dead Baby Industry |
26 Feb 2006 08:00:04 PM |
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Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote
Your standard tactic is to make a claim that
contradicts known facts
Your standard tactic is to refer to your perceptions as "known facts"
You're a liar. I cite authorities. You make up your own definitions.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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