"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4694B1AC.898EB149@internode.on.net...

Smiler wrote:

"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in
message
news:46940FF7.59D6C0AA@internode.on.net...

Smiler wrote:

<vivapadrepio@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184105020.143454.118080@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

Prayer For Rescue From Persecutors.

A prayer of David.

How many times do we have to tell you that prayers are useless?
Any sign of world peace yet?

Smiler,
The godless one

Err - I disagree - strongly.
Forgive me but I am BOTH a theist and an atheist -

How do you reconcile the idea that no gods exist (atheism) with the
belief
that one or more god(s) exist (theism)?
That's like a man with no legs trying on a pair of shoes for size.

that is I have both a

theistic model to "explain" the universe and a non theistic model to do
the
same and I have no point which i can use to choose between both models.
In fact, the "indirect" evidence seems to slightly favour "theistic"
but
hardly enough to convince anyone. Certainly not me.

One of the many methods I used to test my theories was to examine
"religion" as part of the evolution of mankind.
I had to define it very differently to "religion" and "religious
observances" as what I needed was the emotional desires which create
the
religions, not the religions themselves.

So you don't 'think' there's a god but, without any evidence you 'feel'
there is?

They include things like

certainties, expectations, justice. morality and other social amenities
for
a communal species of apes.

These things all exist without any need for a god.

These forces manifest themselves in many ways and can be seen in
everything
from politics, economics, and so on, even science.

I believe myself this is a positive force within our species still ...
something with good and bad repercussions, but something effective.

Within this model, prayers are not people controlling a theos, but
rather
an oration of desires which, if unspoken, allows other things to drift
to
destruction.

*****. Atheists don't pray and none that I know of have allowed "other
things to drift to destruction".
It's just a 'warm feeling' for you.

It is the dreams of men which allow us to thrive as a species ... and
prayers are part of it.
They do not work as "answers" and they rarely are followed, but without
the
articulation of the desire for peace - there is not even going to be an
effort for peace.

"articulation of the desire for peace " should be made vocally to the
warmongers, not silently to a non-existent diety.
Praying to any god has NEVER brought peace.

I suggest you do likewise, take a step backward from looking at child's
fairy stories and see the drives which compel people - and perhaps you
might change your opinion.
I find the childish "belief in prayers" as anything more than an
articulation of my desires ... is foolish. Most "set prayers" are not
my
desires anyway.
But prayer itself? OH I still think it is good.

So you speak to an unreal, non-existent entity?

Both as an atheist and as a theist.

Smiler,
The godless one

Sigh - my parents were and are atheists - i was raised in the religion.

Bwahahaha.
Atheism a religion?
No. Atheism is a lack of religion.

Part of the reason I presented religion in the broad sense is this was a
reaction to the psychology that having 'answers" that "G_d does not exist"
puts
on the young.
I remember discussing it with other children of atheists over the years -
not
in any depth at that stage ... I was young.
Later the knowledge of the same outcomes with believers in other religions
made
sense to me. Atheism, to the children of atheists - is a religious belief
in
every essential psychological point.

What don't you get about "no religion"?

Personally, I have chosen a religion - mathematics.
If you want me to discard my euclidean geometry, please disprove it.
If you want me to discard any of my non-Euclidean geometry models, please
disprove it.
if you want me to discard my atheistic model, please disprove it.
if you want me to discard my theistic model ... please disprove it.

No disproof? Then I will continue believing the predictions of both
models -
which usually coincide.
When they do not coincide, it is the atheistic model which suffers. But
not
enough to discard it ...

PS - I discarded mathematics as a religion as you hide your conclusions in
your
assumptions ... and thus it is also self delusion and religion ... though
I
still love mathematics.

Oh and I am going now ... I was ONLY presenting to you a model which makes
religious beliefs and prayer into a positive psychological trait -
something
which incidentally is considered as such in many branches of psychology. I
did
my own study using my own tools - and made my own observations ... As you
are
not interested - I am not interested in talking to you.

Bye ...

Usual theist *****, pretending to be an atheist.

Smiler,
The godless one