Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 29 Nov 2007 03:44:22 AM
Object: Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back
http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#8791230360285898021
The Church in Europe
No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:
Late last year, a Swedish hotel guest named Stefan Jansson grew
upset when he found a Bible in his room. He fired off an email to the
hotel chain, saying the presence of the Christian scriptures was
"boring and stupefying." This spring, the Scandic chain, Scandinavia's
biggest, ordered the New Testaments removed.
In a country where barely 3% of the population goes to church each
week, the affair seemed just another step in Christian Europe's long
march toward secularism. Then something odd happened: A national furor
erupted. A conservative bishop announced a boycott. A leftist radical
who became a devout Christian and talk-show host denounced the
biblical purge in newspaper columns and on television. A young
evangelical Christian organized an electronic letter-writing campaign,
asking Scandic: Why are you removing Bibles but not pay-porn on your
TVs?
Scandic, which had started keeping its Bibles behind the front
desk, put the New Testament back in guest rooms.
"Sweden is not as secular as we thought," says Christer Sturmark,
head of Sweden's Humanist Association, a noisy assembly of
nonbelievers to which the Bible-protesting hotel guest belongs.
After decades of secularization, religion in Europe has slowed its
slide toward what had seemed inevitable oblivion. There are even
nascent signs of a modest comeback. Most church pews are still empty.
But belief in heaven, hell and concepts such as the soul has risen in
parts of Europe, especially among the young, according to surveys.
Religion, once a dead issue, now figures prominently in public
discourse.
God's tentative return to Europe has scholars and theologians
debating a hot question: Why? Part of the reason, pretty much everyone
agrees, is an influx of devout immigrants. Christian and Muslim
newcomers have revived questions relating to faith that Europe thought
it had banished with the 18th-century Enlightenment. At the same time,
anxiety over immigration, globalization and cutbacks to social-welfare
systems has eroded people's contentment in the here-and-now, prodding
some to seek firmer ground in the spiritual.
The rest of the article suggests that the ending of state
establishments of religion might have something to do with it--which
is consistent with an emerging view among historians of Colonial
America that the dramatic increase in church membership after the
Revolution might have been provoked by the disestablishment of the
Anglican Church.
As it happens, I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment by
Rodney Stark, a sociology professor at the University of Washington:
The Rise of Christianity: How the Obscure, Marginal Jesus Movement
Became the Dominant Religious Force in the Western World in a Few
Centuries (Harper San Francisco, 1997). Stark argues that the
traditional view--that Constantine's making Christianity the official
state religion is what caused the Roman Empire to turn Christian--is
backward. He points to data that suggests that Constantine made
Christianity the state religion because Christians had become a
dominant force within the Roman Empire. Why? Because demographics is
destiny.
Stark uses traditional sociological statistical methods and some very
clever use of both data from the classical period, and such things as
archaeological counts of churches in various Roman cities, to argue
that Christianity grew at a rate comparable to the rise of Mormonism
in modern America (about 43% per decade). I'm not sure what the
reaction of sociologists was to his clever use of data from a period
when demographic data in the modern sense really doesn't exist. Did
they react with disgust? Or were they impressed that he managed to
find anything to work with at all, like Mark Twain's comment about a
dog walking on its hind legs? It didn't do it very well, but that it
did it at all was rather impressive.
Stark argues that there were several reasons for this dramatic
increase, and there's no need to look for any miraculous explanations.
In brief (and not doing justice to how Stark uses the data, as well as
primary and secondary sources):
1. Early Christians, because they utterly rejected infanticide,
abortion, birth control, and non-vaginal intercourse, had
extraordinary birth rates--and eventually outreproduced the pagans.
(The parallels to today, where conservatives are outreproducing
liberals in America, and Muslims are outreproducing non-Muslim Europe--
should be obvious.)
* Roman fathers had the right to leave any deformed or weak male
child--and any female--in the wild to die. Females were effectively
worthless, and as a result, adult males outnumbered adult females by
an extraordinary margin.
* Abortion was widespread in the Roman Empire (often at the
insistence of the husband or father of the pregnant woman), and
frequently led to death or sterility.
* Roman birth control, while not spectacularly effective, did
exist.
* The selfishness of pagan society, as well as the widespread use
of anal and oral sex--and of male prostitutes--meant that much of the
reproductive potential of Roman society was not being used to produce
children.
All of these factors meant that Christians were reproducing like
rabbits, while the pagan part of the Empire was actually declining in
population at the time that Christianity appeared.
2. While it may shock a lot of feminists, Christianity attracted women
in very large numbers because of the dramatically higher status that
they held relative to both the pagan Romans, and the Jews. One little
horrifying example of the difference--and how it played a part in
probably increasing Christian birth rates, and the willingness of
Christian women to get pregnant: marriages between adult Roman men and
little girls (under the age of puberty) were not simply contracted,
but consummated--with often significant physical damage to the girls.
By comparison, Christians delayed marriage until about 18. Considering
that puberty probably came later in classical times than today
(because of nutritional deficiencies), this meant that Christian women
were less likely to be damaged by sexual intercourse, and less likely
to be traumatized by it as well.
3. Because Christianity gave women a higher status, it attracted them
in large numbers--and it would appear that a fair number of pagan
Romans became Christians because of their wives.
I haven't finished reading the book, and there's quite a bit there
that I haven't summarized. I wouldn't exactly call it a popular read,
but for a book with tables of Pearson Products, it's not bad.
Let me emphasize that while I am an historian, I really can't tell you
how reliable Stark's history or sociological analysis is. I don't see
anything obviously wrong, but this is way outside my period. As my
Ancient Middle East professor once put it, "Everything after the fall
of Rome to me is current events."
UPDATE: A reader points me to this article about how Roman use of a
relatively rare plant as an abortifacient (a drug that induces
abortion) eventually drove the plant into extinction! And just because
it's "natural" doesn't make it safe. When I lived in the Bay Area,
Marin County's hopelessly New Age crowd was using a variety of similar
drugs as "natural" ways to induce abortions--with occasional deaths
and often quite severe health consequences.
Labels: abortion, religion
.

User: "=?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos?="

Title: Re: Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back 29 Nov 2007 05:45:11 AM
"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@hotpop.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:7a7fd141-4f40-43ff-a763-8dc90ff89aed@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#8791230360285898021



The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:

Late last year, a Swedish hotel guest named Stefan Jansson grew
upset when he found a Bible in his room. He fired off an email to the
hotel chain, saying the presence of the Christian scriptures was
"boring and stupefying." This spring, the Scandic chain, Scandinavia's
biggest, ordered the New Testaments removed.

In a country where barely 3% of the population goes to church each
week, the affair seemed just another step in Christian Europe's long
march toward secularism. Then something odd happened: A national furor
erupted. A conservative bishop announced a boycott. A leftist radical
who became a devout Christian and talk-show host denounced the
biblical purge in newspaper columns and on television. A young
evangelical Christian organized an electronic letter-writing campaign,
asking Scandic: Why are you removing Bibles but not pay-porn on your
TVs?

Scandic, which had started keeping its Bibles behind the front
desk, put the New Testament back in guest rooms.

"Sweden is not as secular as we thought," says Christer Sturmark,
head of Sweden's Humanist Association, a noisy assembly of
nonbelievers to which the Bible-protesting hotel guest belongs.

After decades of secularization, religion in Europe has slowed its
slide toward what had seemed inevitable oblivion. There are even
nascent signs of a modest comeback. Most church pews are still empty.
But belief in heaven, hell and concepts such as the soul has risen in
parts of Europe, especially among the young, according to surveys.
Religion, once a dead issue, now figures prominently in public
discourse.

God's tentative return to Europe has scholars and theologians
debating a hot question: Why? Part of the reason, pretty much everyone
agrees, is an influx of devout immigrants. Christian and Muslim
newcomers have revived questions relating to faith that Europe thought
it had banished with the 18th-century Enlightenment. At the same time,
anxiety over immigration, globalization and cutbacks to social-welfare
systems has eroded people's contentment in the here-and-now, prodding
some to seek firmer ground in the spiritual.

The rest of the article suggests that the ending of state
establishments of religion might have something to do with it--which
is consistent with an emerging view among historians of Colonial
America that the dramatic increase in church membership after the
Revolution might have been provoked by the disestablishment of the
Anglican Church.

As it happens, I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment by
Rodney Stark, a sociology professor at the University of Washington:
The Rise of Christianity: How the Obscure, Marginal Jesus Movement
Became the Dominant Religious Force in the Western World in a Few
Centuries (Harper San Francisco, 1997). Stark argues that the
traditional view--that Constantine's making Christianity the official
state religion is what caused the Roman Empire to turn Christian--is
backward. He points to data that suggests that Constantine made
Christianity the state religion because Christians had become a
dominant force within the Roman Empire. Why? Because demographics is
destiny.

Stark uses traditional sociological statistical methods and some very
clever use of both data from the classical period, and such things as
archaeological counts of churches in various Roman cities, to argue
that Christianity grew at a rate comparable to the rise of Mormonism
in modern America (about 43% per decade). I'm not sure what the
reaction of sociologists was to his clever use of data from a period
when demographic data in the modern sense really doesn't exist. Did
they react with disgust? Or were they impressed that he managed to
find anything to work with at all, like Mark Twain's comment about a
dog walking on its hind legs? It didn't do it very well, but that it
did it at all was rather impressive.

Stark argues that there were several reasons for this dramatic
increase, and there's no need to look for any miraculous explanations.
In brief (and not doing justice to how Stark uses the data, as well as
primary and secondary sources):

1. Early Christians, because they utterly rejected infanticide,
abortion, birth control, and non-vaginal intercourse, had
extraordinary birth rates--and eventually outreproduced the pagans.
(The parallels to today, where conservatives are outreproducing
liberals in America, and Muslims are outreproducing non-Muslim Europe--
should be obvious.)

* Roman fathers had the right to leave any deformed or weak male
child--and any female--in the wild to die. Females were effectively
worthless, and as a result, adult males outnumbered adult females by
an extraordinary margin.
* Abortion was widespread in the Roman Empire (often at the
insistence of the husband or father of the pregnant woman), and
frequently led to death or sterility.
* Roman birth control, while not spectacularly effective, did
exist.
* The selfishness of pagan society, as well as the widespread use
of anal and oral sex--and of male prostitutes--meant that much of the
reproductive potential of Roman society was not being used to produce
children.

All of these factors meant that Christians were reproducing like
rabbits, while the pagan part of the Empire was actually declining in
population at the time that Christianity appeared.

2. While it may shock a lot of feminists, Christianity attracted women
in very large numbers because of the dramatically higher status that
they held relative to both the pagan Romans, and the Jews. One little
horrifying example of the difference--and how it played a part in
probably increasing Christian birth rates, and the willingness of
Christian women to get pregnant: marriages between adult Roman men and
little girls (under the age of puberty) were not simply contracted,
but consummated--with often significant physical damage to the girls.

By comparison, Christians delayed marriage until about 18. Considering
that puberty probably came later in classical times than today
(because of nutritional deficiencies), this meant that Christian women
were less likely to be damaged by sexual intercourse, and less likely
to be traumatized by it as well.

3. Because Christianity gave women a higher status, it attracted them
in large numbers--and it would appear that a fair number of pagan
Romans became Christians because of their wives.

I haven't finished reading the book, and there's quite a bit there
that I haven't summarized. I wouldn't exactly call it a popular read,
but for a book with tables of Pearson Products, it's not bad.

Let me emphasize that while I am an historian, I really can't tell you
how reliable Stark's history or sociological analysis is. I don't see
anything obviously wrong, but this is way outside my period. As my
Ancient Middle East professor once put it, "Everything after the fall
of Rome to me is current events."

UPDATE: A reader points me to this article about how Roman use of a
relatively rare plant as an abortifacient (a drug that induces
abortion) eventually drove the plant into extinction! And just because
it's "natural" doesn't make it safe. When I lived in the Bay Area,
Marin County's hopelessly New Age crowd was using a variety of similar
drugs as "natural" ways to induce abortions--with occasional deaths
and often quite severe health consequences.

Labels: abortion, religion

.

User: ""

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 05:25:08 AM
On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:

Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...
A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.
.
User: "=?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos?="

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 05:44:59 AM
<parsifal222@gmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:05e20a81-be4b-49fb-90f8-9f656b25006f@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...
A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.

.
User: "brique"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 11:48:19 AM
Markku Grönroos <kurkku@hassuserveri.fi> wrote in message
news:0Dx3j.258815$Cv7.222364@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...


<parsifal222@gmail.com> kirjoitti

viestissä:05e20a81-be4b-49fb-90f8-9f656b25006f@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com.
...

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:


http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...


The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...
A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.


Wy should there be a bible, or any religous screed, in any hotel room? If
that's what you want, check into a monastery, convent or seminary.....
.
User: "skyeyes"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 04:30:06 PM
On Nov 29, 10:48 am, "brique" <briquen...@freeuk.c0m> wrote:

Wy should there be a bible, or any religous screed, in any hotel room? If
that's what you want, check into a monastery, convent or seminary.....

<Laughing> Reminds me of the time in the late 1970s when I was living
in Greece, and a club I belonged to, the American Women of Greece, got
a *great* deal on a 9-day trip to Rome. The cost was $325 U.S., and
included airfare both ways, transportation, accommodations, and 3
meals a day. Naturally, the two dozen spots on the tour filled up in
about 6 hours, and we were off to Rome! Oh, joy, shoe shopping! The
Spanish Steps! Shoe shopping! The Cafe de Paris! Shoe shopping!
Oh, and did I mention the shoe shopping?
We were, however, *exceedingly* curious about what hotel we would be
staying in.
Come to find out, we weren't staying in a hotel at all. We were
staying at the Convent of the Spanish Sisters, out on the Via Appia.
Cold, tile-walled convent rooms with 18-foot ceilings and heavy
convent-woven blankets on narrow cots. Three meals a day consisting
of bread, pasta and bread, and pasta and bread, respectively. And an
expectation that we AWOGs would be going on all the nice little
roamin' catlick tours to the vatican and the catacombs, and all....
Those poor nuns had to put with us high-livin' non-catlick AWOGs for
*nine long days*. On the sixth night, when 3 of us came home at 3 AM,
the Mother Superior met us at the convent gates to remind us that we
were to be back inside by 9 PM every night, and she was no longer
going to require Sister Portress to wait up for us. If we were late
getting in again, we'd spend the night out on the sidewalk.
Someone had spilled Sambucca on me at dinner, and I reeked of it.
Mother Superior's lip curled noticeably as we skittered past her.
Oh, my, that was a fun week! I went back to Athens with 8 new pairs
of shoes (and the handbags to match).
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 11:26:12 AM
"skyeyes" <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:68157649-b296-4f96-83bf-953494b97ca2@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 29, 10:48 am, "brique" <briquen...@freeuk.c0m> wrote:

Wy should there be a bible, or any religous screed, in any hotel room?
If
that's what you want, check into a monastery, convent or seminary.....


<Laughing> Reminds me of the time in the late 1970s when I was living
in Greece, and a club I belonged to, the American Women of Greece, got
a *great* deal on a 9-day trip to Rome. The cost was $325 U.S., and
included airfare both ways, transportation, accommodations, and 3
meals a day. Naturally, the two dozen spots on the tour filled up in
about 6 hours, and we were off to Rome! Oh, joy, shoe shopping! The
Spanish Steps! Shoe shopping! The Cafe de Paris! Shoe shopping!

Oh, and did I mention the shoe shopping?

We were, however, *exceedingly* curious about what hotel we would be
staying in.

Come to find out, we weren't staying in a hotel at all. We were
staying at the Convent of the Spanish Sisters, out on the Via Appia.
Cold, tile-walled convent rooms with 18-foot ceilings and heavy
convent-woven blankets on narrow cots. Three meals a day consisting
of bread, pasta and bread, and pasta and bread, respectively. And an
expectation that we AWOGs would be going on all the nice little
roamin' catlick tours to the vatican and the catacombs, and all....

Those poor nuns had to put with us high-livin' non-catlick AWOGs for
*nine long days*. On the sixth night, when 3 of us came home at 3 AM,
the Mother Superior met us at the convent gates to remind us that we
were to be back inside by 9 PM every night, and she was no longer
going to require Sister Portress to wait up for us. If we were late
getting in again, we'd spend the night out on the sidewalk.

Someone had spilled Sambucca on me at dinner, and I reeked of it.
Mother Superior's lip curled noticeably as we skittered past her.

Oh, my, that was a fun week! I went back to Athens with 8 new pairs
of shoes (and the handbags to match).

***** you, that sounds like so much freakin' fun!
I went to Rome, Venice and Florence with my mother when I was 15 and I can
assure you, it definitely wasn't THAT much fun :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.

User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 11:10:01 PM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:30:06 -0800 (PST), skyeyes
<skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote:

On Nov 29, 10:48 am, "brique" <briquen...@freeuk.c0m> wrote:

Wy should there be a bible, or any religous screed, in any hotel room? If
that's what you want, check into a monastery, convent or seminary.....


<Laughing> Reminds me of the time in the late 1970s when I was living
in Greece, and a club I belonged to, the American Women of Greece, got
a *great* deal on a 9-day trip to Rome. The cost was $325 U.S., and
included airfare both ways, transportation, accommodations, and 3
meals a day. Naturally, the two dozen spots on the tour filled up in
about 6 hours, and we were off to Rome! Oh, joy, shoe shopping! The
Spanish Steps! Shoe shopping! The Cafe de Paris! Shoe shopping!

Oh, and did I mention the shoe shopping?

We were, however, *exceedingly* curious about what hotel we would be
staying in.

Come to find out, we weren't staying in a hotel at all. We were
staying at the Convent of the Spanish Sisters, out on the Via Appia.
Cold, tile-walled convent rooms with 18-foot ceilings and heavy
convent-woven blankets on narrow cots. Three meals a day consisting
of bread, pasta and bread, and pasta and bread, respectively. And an
expectation that we AWOGs would be going on all the nice little
roamin' catlick tours to the vatican and the catacombs, and all....

Those poor nuns had to put with us high-livin' non-catlick AWOGs for
*nine long days*. On the sixth night, when 3 of us came home at 3 AM,
the Mother Superior met us at the convent gates to remind us that we
were to be back inside by 9 PM every night, and she was no longer
going to require Sister Portress to wait up for us. If we were late
getting in again, we'd spend the night out on the sidewalk.

Someone had spilled Sambucca on me at dinner, and I reeked of it.
Mother Superior's lip curled noticeably as we skittered past her.

Oh, my, that was a fun week! I went back to Athens with 8 new pairs
of shoes (and the handbags to match).

:D Sounds not a little unlike an episode of Hogan's Heros!!
.



User: "les_on_usenet"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 07:13:19 AM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 13:44:59 +0200, Markku Grönroos
<kurkku@hassuserveri.fi> wrote:


<parsifal222@gmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:05e20a81-be4b-49fb-90f8-9f656b25006f@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:

Wishful thinking
No sign of that in England, quite the reverse. The evangelical
churches are growing but all they are doing is taking people away from
the traditional churches.
Taking into account total Christian worship the addition of
new lambs is more than offset by the deaths of elderly sheep.
Here in Bradford the catholics are closing half their churches. Many
CofE and non-com places of worship went years ago. Bradford had
one of the largest Methodist Temple in the UK. It will shortly be
reopened as luxury flats. The Cof E are having to share its
priests between several churches as they cannot get enough
recruits. The CofE is practically dead and its last rites will not
be long in coming.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.


User: "Lucifer"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 05:17:33 PM
On Nov 29, 11:25 am,
wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...


The Church in Europe


No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...
A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.

I met one once, in Aberdeen. It soon acquired a disclaimer saying "the
following work is fiction"...etc
--
Lucifer the Unsubtle, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil
and General Purpose Igor
The Anti-Theist, BAAWA Lowly Evilmeister and tamer of the Demon Duck
of Doom
Convicted by Earthquack
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
.

User: "skyeyes"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 04:18:09 PM
On Nov 29, 4:25 am,
wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...


The Church in Europe


No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...
A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.

But...But...But... 'Merica is the Center of the Known Yooniverse!!!!!!
Innit?
<Looks crestfallen>
Oh. Well, then.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
.

User: "les_on_usenet"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 06:54:45 AM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:25:08 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...

Yes they are starting to get rare. I have stayed in most of these
places too and many more especially in the UK of course. These
days I cruise and you never find them on cruise ships nor generally
any hint of religion. On one cruise though the Captain must have been
a Christians as he played a recording of cathedral bells loudly on the
ships loudspeaker briefly every Sunday before announcing he would be
conducting services. They were relayed on the ships CCTV system.
I found this annoying as we were a captive audience for his religious
intrusion into our lives. I was not the only person annoyed either.

A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.

I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.
Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
User: "=?Windows-1252?Q?Markku_Gr=F6nroos?="

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 08:18:26 AM
"les_on_usenet" <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:ngctk35he3ega1dcqlj3bqi9sr0s03boi7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:25:08 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...


Yes they are starting to get rare. I have stayed in most of these
places too and many more especially in the UK of course. These
days I cruise and you never find them on cruise ships nor generally
any hint of religion. On one cruise though the Captain must have been
a Christians as he played a recording of cathedral bells loudly on the
ships loudspeaker briefly every Sunday before announcing he would be
conducting services. They were relayed on the ships CCTV system.
I found this annoying as we were a captive audience for his religious
intrusion into our lives. I was not the only person annoyed either.

A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.


I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.

Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

.

User: "Mistylein"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 AM
"les_on_usenet" <delete-unread@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:ngctk35he3ega1dcqlj3bqi9sr0s03boi7@4ax.com...

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:25:08 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...

The Church in Europe

No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...


Yes they are starting to get rare. I have stayed in most of these
places too and many more especially in the UK of course. These
days I cruise and you never find them on cruise ships nor generally
any hint of religion. On one cruise though the Captain must have been
a Christians as he played a recording of cathedral bells loudly on the
ships loudspeaker briefly every Sunday before announcing he would be
conducting services. They were relayed on the ships CCTV system.
I found this annoying as we were a captive audience for his religious
intrusion into our lives. I was not the only person annoyed either.

Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.
Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.
In fact it is anitchristian!


A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.

The US of A Government is the Second beast of Revelation
13 if you may be interested.
it will help the first beast and even cause all to worship the
first beast.
But they both will come to an abrupt end when God has their
time come up to be finished.


I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.

Now does that not tell you something about what is going on
all arond us today??
You will get that too in Mexico. There it is called Montezuma's revenge!


Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.


Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

.
User: "Brian"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 07:57:42 PM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:

Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!

Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?
.
User: "Mistylein"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 02 Dec 2007 12:34:05 AM
"Brian" <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?

Christianity is almost impossible to find today 2,000 years later.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 02 Dec 2007 02:01:46 AM
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:34:05 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Brian" <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?


Christianity is almost impossible to find today 2,000 years later.

Eh?
Have you been on the herbs again?
2,000 years ago, Christianity had not been fabricated.
.
User: "Mistylein"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 02 Dec 2007 03:49:26 AM
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:mhp4l31hduhljh9n7ru7rf3q26n9g9m231@4ax.com...

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:34:05 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Brian" <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?


Christianity is almost impossible to find today 2,000 years later.


Eh?
Have you been on the herbs again?
2,000 years ago, Christianity had not been fabricated.

Christianity never was fabricate.
However "they were first called Christian in Antioch if the Book of
Act is correct!
M,
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 02 Dec 2007 05:40:37 PM
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 03:49:26 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:mhp4l31hduhljh9n7ru7rf3q26n9g9m231@4ax.com...

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:34:05 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Brian" <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?


Christianity is almost impossible to find today 2,000 years later.


Eh?
Have you been on the herbs again?
2,000 years ago, Christianity had not been fabricated.


Christianity never was fabricate.

You must be drunk.

However "they were first called Christian in Antioch if the Book of
Act is correct!

Put that bottle down, and go seek help.
.

User: "Don Martin"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 02 Dec 2007 07:37:42 AM
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 03:49:26 -0600, "Mistylein" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:mhp4l31hduhljh9n7ru7rf3q26n9g9m231@4ax.com...

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:34:05 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


"Brian" <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?


Christianity is almost impossible to find today 2,000 years later.


Eh?
Have you been on the herbs again?
2,000 years ago, Christianity had not been fabricated.


Christianity never was fabricate.

However "they were first called Christian in Antioch if the Book of
Act is correct!

I am sure that the Book of Acts is every bit as correct as the rest of the
Bible.
The bigger question is, "so what?"
WOA (Wicked Old Atheist) #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man,
what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.




User: "brique"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 10:18:58 PM
Brian <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it

Christian.


In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?

Is this the same non-christian christianity which 'saved' western
civilisation... or was that in an alternate reality. which is how
crazymotherfucker posts seem to work, each existing in its own little
cocoon....
.
User: "Curly Surmudgeon"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 01 Dec 2007 02:18:47 AM
On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 04:18:58 +0000, brique wrote:


Brian <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oqf1l3hcocaujdr4qlrpgtmi5ba9tf5phm@4ax.com...

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein" <yardholler@charter.net>
wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way shape
or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it

Christian.


In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ died?


Is this the same non-christian christianity which 'saved' western
civilisation... or was that in an alternate reality. which is how
crazymotherfucker posts seem to work, each existing in its own little
cocoon....

/s/cocoon/reality
Crazymotherfuckers live in alternate realities which overlap ours to a
great extent but contain some areas inaccessable to logical minds. We've
seen the examples here where crazymotherfuckers spout provably wrong
*****. We call them on it, repeatedly. Then the crazymotherfuckers
repeat the same untruths again, and again, and again as if this is
going to convince anyone other than themselves.
Their bubble of space-time no doubt seems real to them, apparently, but
I'm at a complete loss as how to break them out of their madness.
If they were not so destructive to society as a whole I'd just let them
babble in tongues and go their guilt-ridden way however they wish to
modify _our_ reality into their madness.
We cannot let down our guard or the crazymotherfuckers take over. Witness
Bush...
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://thegreen.stanleylieber.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.


User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 09:18:23 PM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:57:42 -0500, Brian <drmorrisnospam@comcast.net>
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:


Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!


Did Christianity cease to exist for hundreds of years after Christ
died?

Christ never existed, let alone died.
.


User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 09:34:04 AM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:

The US of A Government is the Second beast of Revelation
13 if you may be interested.

Idiot.
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 05:23:31 PM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:34:04 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, "Mistylein"
<yardholler@charter.net> wrote:

The US of A Government is the Second beast of Revelation
13 if you may be interested.


Idiot.

"Mentally ill lunatic", more like it.
.


User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 30 Nov 2007 09:27:00 AM
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:25:51 -0600, Mistylein wrote:

The US of A Government is the Second beast of Revelation 13 if you may
be interested.

No, not interested.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Arrogance has to be earned. Tell me what you've done to earn yours."
- Dr. House
.

User: "Wexford"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 03 Dec 2007 11:40:22 AM
On Nov 30, 2:25 am, "Mistylein" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

"les_on_usenet" <delete-unr...@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote in message

news:ngctk35he3ega1dcqlj3bqi9sr0s03boi7@4ax.com...





On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:25:08 -0800 (PST),

wrote:


On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...


The Church in Europe


No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...


Yes they are starting to get rare. I have stayed in most of these
places too and many more especially in the UK of course. These
days I cruise and you never find them on cruise ships nor generally
any hint of religion. On one cruise though the Captain must have been
a Christians as he played a recording of cathedral bells loudly on the
ships loudspeaker briefly every Sunday before announcing he would be
conducting services. They were relayed on the ships CCTV system.
I found this annoying as we were a captive audience for his religious
intrusion into our lives. I was not the only person annoyed either.

??????????

Do not even think that Roman Catholic is "Christian" in any way
shape or form.

Are you nuts? It calls itself Christian. It is the oldest Christian
denomination. Why shouldn't it be considered Christian?

Just because it is religious really is not authority to make it Christian.

The Roman Catholic Church preaches the gospel of Christ, you dimwit.
That makes it Christian.

In fact it is anitchristian!

Perhaps in your twisted imagination, but not in reality.

A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.


The US of A Government is the Second beast of Revelation
13 if you may be interested.

Hahahahahahah! Good one!

it will help the first beast and even cause all to worship the
first beast.

Hahahahaahahahahah! Stop it, Sport, yer killin me.

But they both will come to an abrupt end when God has their
time come up to be finished.

"Come up to be finished?" OK. Your God knows not grammar.

I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.


Now does that not tell you something about what is going on
all arond us today??

The trots?

You will get that too in Mexico. There it is called Montezuma's revenge!

I once had it happen in South Bend Indiana. Was that Notre Dame's
revenge?

Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.

The last time I was in England, the local pub's snack specialty was
french-fries (chips) with cheeze and bacon. No trots, but a year's
supply of cholesterol.
.


User: "Wexford"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 09:06:03 PM
On Nov 29, 7:54 am, les_on_usenet <delete-unr...@leswell.freeuk.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:25:08 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

On 29 nov, 10:44, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_07_15_archive.html#879123036...


The Church in Europe


No, that's not an oxymoron. This article from the July 14, 2007 Wall
Street Journal tells us that after decades of decline, Christianity
seems to be making a modest comeback:


Strangely enough, in all the hotels I've visited in Europe, not once
have I found a bible.
And this include Paris, Venice, Rome, Florence, Budapest, Amsterdam,
Berlin, Moscow, Graz, Linz, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Prag, Brussels, The
Hague... and Stockholm... and several small villages in very catholic
Austria...


Yes they are starting to get rare. I have stayed in most of these
places too and many more especially in the UK of course. These
days I cruise and you never find them on cruise ships nor generally
any hint of religion. On one cruise though the Captain must have been
a Christians as he played a recording of cathedral bells loudly on the
ships loudspeaker briefly every Sunday before announcing he would be
conducting services. They were relayed on the ships CCTV system.
I found this annoying as we were a captive audience for his religious
intrusion into our lives. I was not the only person annoyed either.

A clear sign that Europe is civilized and that Americans who project
their own insecurities should shut up instead of making a fool of
themselves by inventing things.


I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.

Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.

Never had a problem in New York, but my whole family (who are fully
grown people) ha it hapen San Francisco. By the way, thefood may have
been poor, but how were the whores?
.

User: "dgs"

Title: Re: I've never seen a bible in any hotel room in Europe 29 Nov 2007 02:51:48 PM
les_on_usenet wrote:

I have stayed twice in the USA and on both occasions I found
Gideons. There were also cards advertising prostitutes and
take away food establishments (New York). I bought a
self-service ready meal from a next door Deli and got the trots
badly next day. I now know the location of every single toilet in
the Met museum as I 'started' just after I got there.

Never got that in Europe or in Tangier.

I've had the trots in a most unlikely place: Austria. It was a
poorly-made infected beer that did me in, and I had just a few
sips. It isn't often that happens - pretty rare, actually.
--
dgs
.



User: "Hatter"

Title: Re: Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back 29 Nov 2007 09:41:21 AM
On Nov 29, 4:44 am, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:
A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Here's a thought, like scriptures? Bring your own. That right simply
take responsibility for your own affairs and leave everybody else out
of it. I like certain albums, like from Sisters of Mercy, The Dead
Kennedys, Frank Sinatra, The Art of Noise, Ego Likeness, and Delerium.
Do I expect music from these bands to be available to me in every
hotel room? No I pack my CDs or MP3 Player.
Is to expecting Christians to take care of their own preferences the
same way asking too much?
Hatter
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back 29 Nov 2007 05:21:42 PM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:41:21 -0800 (PST), Hatter <Hatter23@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Nov 29, 4:44 am, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:
A lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

Here's a thought, like scriptures? Bring your own. That right simply
take responsibility for your own affairs and leave everybody else out
of it. I like certain albums, like from Sisters of Mercy, The Dead
Kennedys, Frank Sinatra, The Art of Noise, Ego Likeness, and Delerium.
Do I expect music from these bands to be available to me in every
hotel room? No I pack my CDs or MP3 Player.

Is to expecting Christians to take care of their own preferences the
same way asking too much?

Hatter

Yes.
They have been raised to be compliant sheep, who want everything done
for them, especillay their thinking.
They do not take personal reponsibility for anything.
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Public Outrage Forces Swedish Hotels To Put Bibles Back 29 Nov 2007 04:51:09 PM
On Nov 29, 4:44 am, Sound of Trumpet <sound_of_trum...@hotpop.com>
wrote:
snip
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=jansson+sweeden+bibles+hotels&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn
No hits.
Let's try Yahoo.
http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search;_ylt=A0WTTkrpQE9HZtwAAgKy87UF;_ylu=X3oDMTBhNjRqazhxBHNlYwNzZWFyY2g-?fr=sfp&ei=UTF-8&p=jansson+sweden+bibles+hotels
No hits.
Let's try Reuters.
http://search.us.reuters.com/rsearch/rcomSearch.do?blob=jansson%20sweden%20bibles%20hotels&WTmodLoc=ussrch-top-quote
No hits.
Maybe I'm spelling Sweden wrong.
http://www.sweden.se/templates/cs/Frontpage.aspx?id=1898
Hmm. Maybe not.
Let's try the AP.
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=APAB&p_theme=apab&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=jansson%20sweden%20bible%20hotels&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=("jansson%20sweden%20bible%20hotels")&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no
No hits.
It would seem that this is simply another Christian lie.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
.


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