| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Glenn Arnold" |
| Date: |
02 Nov 2007 11:30:43 AM |
| Object: |
Public School Church service/concert |
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Glenn Arnold
a.a #20
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 12:10:31 PM |
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"Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
news:472B50B3.60004@att.net...
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church service
in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or me. But the
school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be required to sit
through the church service, prior to the performance. When he informed
them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that anyway it isn't
approriate for the school to create a situation where students are
required to sit through a church service, their response was "we aren't
doing anything illegal."
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all, the
church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here lives
in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would be
interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just how
much the school is overstepping its bounds.
No offense, but I'm sure your kid can sit through a church service without
suffering any undue psychological damage. It's not like she'll be forced to
pray, convert, take communion, etc.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Ghod" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 12:30:33 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5p13skFolcn7U1@mid.individual.net...
:
: "Glenn Arnold" <oldnoah@att.net> wrote in message
: news:472B50B3.60004@att.net...
: >I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember
me.
: >
: > My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been
having with
: > his daughter's high school.
: >
: > My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going
on a
: > field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and
to
: > attend performances.
: >
: > On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service
: > in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or me.
But the
: > school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit
: > through the church service, prior to the performance. When he
informed
: > them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that anyway it
isn't
: > approriate for the school to create a situation where students are
: > required to sit through a church service, their response was "we
aren't
: > doing anything illegal."
: >
: > I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After
all, the
: > church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone
here lives
: > in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be
: > interested in attending the service as observers, to determine
just how
: > much the school is overstepping its bounds.
:
: No offense, but I'm sure your kid can sit through a church service
without
: suffering any undue psychological damage. It's not like she'll be
forced to
: pray, convert, take communion, etc.
Sure, a little bullying never hurt anyone either.
I don't think you're getting the point, Robyn. The insistence by the
school that ANY students be required to attend a church service is
illegal, offensive, and just plain WRONG! See? Why is it that we
have these things occurring? It isn't because xians know when to stop
, I can tell you that much.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 04:27:48 PM |
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On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:30:33 -0500, "Ghod" <ghod@ameritech.net> wrote:
I don't think you're getting the point, Robyn. The insistence by the
school that ANY students be required to attend a church service is
illegal, offensive, and just plain WRONG! See? Why is it that we
have these things occurring? It isn't because xians know when to stop
, I can tell you that much.
It's because the ONLY problem a lot of Christians might see is that
she might be forced to attend a service in the WRONG church - but most
of them think that church, even the wrong one, is better than no
church.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"For aught we know a priori, matter may contain the source, or spring, of order
originating within itself, as well as the mind does."
- David Hume, Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 11:54:41 AM |
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Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> writes:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
Hey.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I think one good response would be to say that having her skip the
service isn't illegal, either.
However, I'd say the school is definitely acting illegally.
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Too far for me.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 12:11:14 PM |
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"Brian Westley" <westley@visi.com> wrote in message
news:13imlihras21g08@corp.supernews.com...
Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> writes:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
Hey.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I think one good response would be to say that having her skip the
service isn't illegal, either.
However, I'd say the school is definitely acting illegally.
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Too far for me.
Not too far for me, but Newark's a bad area and no WAY would I go there if I
don't have to.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 09:20:21 PM |
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On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:11:14 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>
wrote:
"Brian Westley" <westley@visi.com> wrote in message
news:13imlihras21g08@corp.supernews.com...
Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> writes:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
Hey.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I think one good response would be to say that having her skip the
service isn't illegal, either.
However, I'd say the school is definitely acting illegally.
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Too far for me.
Not too far for me, but Newark's a bad area and no WAY would I go there if I
don't have to.
You should check out the Ironbound district. Lots of restaurants.
Ben
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
03 Nov 2007 10:07:54 AM |
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"Ben Kaufman" <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:qlmni3hka8l1vcv83k87tfqj810ek0g2nq@4ax.com...
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:11:14 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com>
wrote:
"Brian Westley" <westley@visi.com> wrote in message
news:13imlihras21g08@corp.supernews.com...
Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> writes:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
Hey.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I think one good response would be to say that having her skip the
service isn't illegal, either.
However, I'd say the school is definitely acting illegally.
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Too far for me.
Not too far for me, but Newark's a bad area and no WAY would I go there if
I
don't have to.
You should check out the Ironbound district. Lots of restaurants.
That's okay. There are plenty of nice restaurants where I live.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
1557
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 12:41:33 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:54:41 -0000, Brian Westley <westley@visi.com>
wrote:
Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> writes:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
Hey.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I think one good response would be to say that having her skip the
service isn't illegal, either.
However, I'd say the school is definitely acting illegally.
Forcing a student to sit through a church service? Regardless of the
"justification", it's already been decided by the Court that it's
illegal. Forcing them to sit through a prayer or Bible reading is, so
an entire service?
Where the school does this is immaterial, as long as it's the school
that's doing it and, in this case, it is.
Having her walk out of the church during the service wouldn't be
illegal (but that could be dangerous in Newark), but it might get her
kicked out of orchestra, which could then lead to a big lawsuit.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation
and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger
with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change
them."
- Abraham Lincoln
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
02 Nov 2007 09:19:23 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:30:43 -0400, Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> wrote:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
Glenn Arnold
a.a #20
Illegal or not, this is extremely inconsiderate of the school.
Are there any Jewish children in the orchestra? All of the parents should
band together and give the school a piece of their mind.
Ben
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Public School Church service/concert |
03 Nov 2007 01:02:29 AM |
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"Ben Kaufman" <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:5cmni3l142nha4pii7hn061e07vn3qbemb@4ax.com...
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:30:43 -0400, Glenn Arnold <oldnoah@att.net> wrote:
I haven't posted here in a long time, but some of you may remember me.
My brother recently contacted me about a problem he has been having with
his daughter's high school.
My niece plays violin in the high school orchestra. They are going on a
field trip this weekend in the New York City area, to perform and to
attend performances.
On Sunday morning, they will be performing at the end of a church
service in Newark New Jersey. This part doesn't bother my brother, or
me. But the school has made it clear that the entire orchestra will be
required to sit through the church service, prior to the performance.
When he informed them that he and his daughter are atheists, and that
anyway it isn't approriate for the school to create a situation where
students are required to sit through a church service, their response
was "we aren't doing anything illegal."
Yes, they are. They are forcing people to sit through
a religious service against their will. That could
constitute kidnapping in some way. All the band
members who don't want to sit through the service
have to do is refuse to attend. If the school says that
they can't perform if they don't, then they are biting
off their noses to spite their own faces. And, since the
band is from a public government sponsered school,
the school could be making a lot of Constitutional
trouble for itself. You should speak to a lawyer to
learn the legal aspects of this entire thing.
I don't want to do anything that would disrupt the service. After all,
the church hasn't done anything wrong. But I'm wondering if anyone here
lives in the Newark area, and (I realize this is a wierd request) would
be interested in attending the service as observers, to determine just
how much the school is overstepping its bounds.
It could be that the church told the school that the
band had to sit through the service and the school
went along with this. They shouldn't have, if this is
the case. You should find out.
By the way, hi, Glenn!
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
When fascism comes to America, it will be
wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross -
Sinclair Lewis
Glenn Arnold
a.a #20
Illegal or not, this is extremely inconsiderate of the school.
Are there any Jewish children in the orchestra? All of the parents
should
band together and give the school a piece of their mind.
Ben
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