| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Editor of EvilBible.com" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2004 12:18:04 PM |
| Object: |
Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
While researching today's EvilBible Quote of the Day, I came across this
quote by Thomas Paine that appears to refer to today's quote (Numbers
31:7-18):
"The character of Moses is the most horrid tale that can be imagined.
Moses was a wretch that committed the most horrible atrocities that can be
found in the literature of any nation. 'For Moses said unto them (according
to the Bible), kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman
that hath known a man by lying with him, but al the women that have not
known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.'
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one
worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys,
to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare to dishonor my *Creator's* name by [attaching] it to this filthy book.
Men and books lie. Only *nature* does not lie."
(Unfortunately, a quick web search did not turn up a proper reference for
this quote. If someone knows which work it came from please let me know.)
It appears that Thomas Paine was a Deist and believed in a "Creator God",
but was opposed to a Judeo-Christian concept of God and religion.
I am not very familiar with deism, and I was wondering if deists typically
used the word "Creator", with a capital "C", to describe a
non-Judeo-Christian God? (And what about the word "nature"? How did deists
use the term "nature"?) And if this is the case then I was wondering if the
Declaration of Independence quotes about God are not about the
Judeo-Christian God but the Deist concept of God. For example there are:
"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"
"endowed by their Creator"
Since the Declaration of Independence was drafted by Thomas Jefferson, who
appears to be either a deist or an atheist, don't these quotes appear to
refer to either "Nature" or the deist version of God rather than a
Judeo-Christian God as many Christians are now trying to claim?
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
16 Jan 2004 01:32:47 PM |
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"Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote in message
news:wVVNb.1136$Fp1.583297@news1.news.adelphia.net...
While researching today's EvilBible Quote of the Day, I came across this
quote by Thomas Paine that appears to refer to today's quote (Numbers
31:7-18):
"The character of Moses is the most horrid tale that can be imagined.
Moses was a wretch that committed the most horrible atrocities that can be
found in the literature of any nation. 'For Moses said unto them
(according
to the Bible), kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman
that hath known a man by lying with him, but al the women that have not
known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.'
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one
worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the
boys,
to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare to dishonor my *Creator's* name by [attaching] it to this filthy
book.
Men and books lie. Only *nature* does not lie."
(Unfortunately, a quick web search did not turn up a proper reference for
this quote. If someone knows which work it came from please let me know.)
It appears that Thomas Paine was a Deist and believed in a "Creator God",
but was opposed to a Judeo-Christian concept of God and religion.
I am not very familiar with deism, and I was wondering if deists typically
used the word "Creator", with a capital "C", to describe a
non-Judeo-Christian God? (And what about the word "nature"? How did
deists
use the term "nature"?) And if this is the case then I was wondering if
the
Declaration of Independence quotes about God are not about the
Judeo-Christian God but the Deist concept of God. For example there are:
"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"
"endowed by their Creator"
Since the Declaration of Independence was drafted by Thomas Jefferson, who
appears to be either a deist or an atheist, don't these quotes appear to
refer to either "Nature" or the deist version of God rather than a
Judeo-Christian God as many Christians are now trying to claim?
If memory serves me correctly, Deism basically states that a
"god/God(tm)/deity" created the Earth, universe, etc, and then found
something better to do. This deity does not meddle in man's affairs.....sort
of an "inverted" agnostic.
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
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| User: "John Kelley" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
16 Jan 2004 07:19:11 PM |
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Ever read Washington's first address as president,
hardly the words of a Deist:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/wash1.htm
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
17 Jan 2004 11:13:32 AM |
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Ever read Washington's first address as president,
hardly the words of a Deist:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/wash1.htm
Words not found in the above text: God, Jesus, Christ, religion.
Hardly the words of a Christian.
From the above:
"[T]he foundation of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable
principles of private morality, and the preeminence of free government be
exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its citizens
and command the respect of the world."
DEFINITELY not the words of a Christian. The concept of private morality is
heretical to virtually every Christian sect.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Matt Silberstein matts2nopam@ix netcom.nospamcom" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
17 Jan 2004 12:32:59 PM |
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In alt.religion.christian I read this message from "The other
Donald" <the_donald_13@yehaw2.com>:
[snip]
If memory serves me correctly, Deism basically states that a
"god/God(tm)/deity" created the Earth, universe, etc, and then found
something better to do. This deity does not meddle in man's affairs.....sort
of an "inverted" agnostic.
Deism follows philosophically from Newton. While today some
theists, mostly American Protestant fundamentalists, rail against
Darwin as opposing their religious views, a few hundred years ago
it was Newton who caused the problems. There was a time, for much
of human history, where religion acted to produce explanations
for (and the concomitant ability to control) the world. Rain came
because this god willed it, earthquakes because of that god,
disease because of (possibly) yet another. A parallel viewpoint,
that the world had rules and humans could affect what happened we
call magic. Magic operated by some simply rules, primarily
variations on the law of similarity (thing which are alike in
some way are alike in another). As time passed people developed a
more complex, more sophisticated religious viewpoint. In the
Middle Ages magic was divorced from some of the extra-practical
aspect and endowed with two powerful tools: nominalism and
parsimony. Until then magic and religion fought of the same
territories (full explanations of everything in the world) and
religion generally won (from a political viewpoint). With Ockham
(the divorce, etc. from above) magic, what we now call science,
no longer had the burden to explain anything but observation. The
first challenge came from Galileo, with the observation that we
humans are not at the physical center of things, but the
challenge offered by Newton was far more troubling to many a
theist. Newton said that the universe worked by regular laws, the
planets moved by themselves. No longer did people have to invoke
some hidden Mover to explain things around them, we could have
just a Prime Mover who started things up. This was, for many, the
origin of the God of the Gaps. God was their at the beginning,
and possibly to fix things up here and there, but that was it.
(This view has precedence in Jewish theology, but post-Diaspora
Jewish tradition is mostly irrelevant to Western philosophy or
theology until Schopenhauer.)
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
17 Jan 2004 01:52:40 AM |
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In article <z%WNb.61587$WS1.8299@fe1.texas.rr.com>,
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yehaw2.com> wrote:
"Editor of EvilBible.com" <Dont_Reply@Here.com> wrote in message
news:wVVNb.1136$Fp1.583297@news1.news.adelphia.net...
While researching today's EvilBible Quote of the Day, I came across this
quote by Thomas Paine that appears to refer to today's quote (Numbers
31:7-18):
"The character of Moses is the most horrid tale that can be imagined.
Moses was a wretch that committed the most horrible atrocities that can be
found in the literature of any nation. 'For Moses said unto them
(according
to the Bible), kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman
that hath known a man by lying with him, but al the women that have not
known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.'
"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one
worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the
boys,
to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare to dishonor my *Creator's* name by [attaching] it to this filthy
book.
Men and books lie. Only *nature* does not lie."
(Unfortunately, a quick web search did not turn up a proper reference for
this quote. If someone knows which work it came from please let me know.)
It appears that Thomas Paine was a Deist and believed in a "Creator God",
but was opposed to a Judeo-Christian concept of God and religion.
I am not very familiar with deism, and I was wondering if deists typically
used the word "Creator", with a capital "C", to describe a
non-Judeo-Christian God? (And what about the word "nature"? How did
deists
use the term "nature"?) And if this is the case then I was wondering if
the
Declaration of Independence quotes about God are not about the
Judeo-Christian God but the Deist concept of God. For example there are:
"Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"
"endowed by their Creator"
Since the Declaration of Independence was drafted by Thomas Jefferson, who
appears to be either a deist or an atheist, don't these quotes appear to
refer to either "Nature" or the deist version of God rather than a
Judeo-Christian God as many Christians are now trying to claim?
If memory serves me correctly, Deism basically states that a
"god/God(tm)/deity" created the Earth, universe, etc, and then found
something better to do. This deity does not meddle in man's affairs.....sort
of an "inverted" agnostic.
I think at times they used "God" and "Nature" almost interchangeably.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
- Question authority. Now more than ever. -
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| User: "ALOHA" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
07 Feb 2004 07:09:14 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-32B521.23524016012004@news-central.ash.giganews.com...
If memory serves me correctly, Deism basically states that a
"god/God(tm)/deity" created the Earth, universe, etc, and then found
something better to do. This deity does not meddle in man's
affairs.....sort
of an "inverted" agnostic.
That definition has its difficulties. It retains the Judeo-Christian image
of God as an old man with white hair and flowing white robes, sitting in a
big white throne--only, this time, he doesn't pay attention to the world he
created.
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too great to be
comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly not an old man. The silliness
about the Virgin Birth, and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
07 Feb 2004 10:56:27 AM |
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"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too great to be
comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly not an old man. The silliness
about the Virgin Birth, and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a
myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead? Walk on water? Cure the blind and
lepers? Get crucified under Pontius Pilate? Meet Herod? Change water into
wine? Calm the seas?
BAM
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| User: "ALOHA" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 05:49:35 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:mK8Vb.21778$qK3.15342@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Really? Do myths rise from the dead? Walk on water? Cure the blind and
lepers? Get crucified under Pontius Pilate? Meet Herod? Change water into
wine? Calm the seas?
No, and I do not believe that Jesus did any of those things, either.
If GOD wanted to reveal himself to me, why would he do it in terms of some
perverted sort of magic show?
When Jesus allegedly ascended into "heaven," why did not all of Jerusalem
see it, rather than only 8 or 9 witnesses? Why should I believe a handful
of people on a matter as important as this?
Speaking of witnesses, Joseph Smith (who allegedly translated the Book of
Mormon into English) had a number of "witnesses" testify that they actually
SAW the original plates, from which he made the translation. So, if we are
to believe witnesses, why aren't we all reading the Book of Mormon as
scripture?
Lies are lies. And this whole Jesus story is nothing but superstition and
myth, for the benefit of the ignorant.
And, for the benefit of the Jews:
No, I don't believe that Moses was handed the Ten Commandments by God,
either.
You're ALL nuts.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:26:34 AM |
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On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:56:27 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> posted in alt.atheism:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too great to be
comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly not an old man. The silliness
about the Virgin Birth, and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a
myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead? Walk on water? Cure the blind and
lepers? Get crucified under Pontius Pilate? Meet Herod? Change water into
wine? Calm the seas?
Did a character in a work of fiction do any of those things? Of
course not.
--
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
07 Feb 2004 01:09:07 PM |
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bam wrote:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too
great to be comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly
not an old man. The silliness about the Virgin Birth,
and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead?
Yes, in the mythology.
Walk on water?
Yes, in the mythology.
Cure the blind and lepers?
Yes, in the mythology.
Get crucified under Pontius Pilate?
Yes, in the mythology.
Meet Herod?
Yes, in the mythology.
Change water into wine?
Yes, in the mythology.
Calm the seas?
Does bam have a brain? No.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
07 Feb 2004 07:22:51 PM |
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"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CLGdnf2RPbFIqrjdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too
great to be comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly
not an old man. The silliness about the Virgin Birth,
and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Walk on water?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Cure the blind and lepers?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Get crucified under Pontius Pilate?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Meet Herod?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Change water into wine?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Calm the seas?
I didn't ask you that.
Does bam have a brain? No.
Ahh... I see. You ask and answer your own questions. What fantasy world are
you in?
BAM
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
07 Feb 2004 08:09:22 PM |
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bam wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CLGdnf2RPbFIqrjdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too
great to be comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly
not an old man. The silliness about the Virgin Birth,
and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Yes you did. If you don't like hearing about the christian
mythology then go away.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:10:43 AM |
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"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2oudnXtOBZPPB7jdRVn-jg@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CLGdnf2RPbFIqrjdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too
great to be comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly
not an old man. The silliness about the Virgin Birth,
and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Yes you did. If you don't like hearing about the christian
mythology then go away.
It's not that - I just don't like blatant liars.
BAM
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 08:27:17 PM |
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:10:43 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> posted in alt.atheism:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2oudnXtOBZPPB7jdRVn-jg@sti.net...
If you don't like hearing about the christian mythology then go away.
It's not that - I just don't like blatant liars.
Then stay away from Christians.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction."
- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:19:49 AM |
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:10:43 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2oudnXtOBZPPB7jdRVn-jg@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:CLGdnf2RPbFIqrjdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"ALOHA" <ALOHA@earthlink.net> wrote
My own concept of the Deity is some power that is too
great to be comprehended by us mere mortals--certainly
not an old man. The silliness about the Virgin Birth,
and a "Son of God," seems to be nothing but a myth.
Really? Do myths rise from the dead?
Yes, in the mythology.
I didn't ask you that.
Yes you did. If you don't like hearing about the christian
mythology then go away.
It's not that - I just don't like blatant liars.
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another man's belly laugh
- and that if you don't want people to treat your myths as myths then
keep them to yourself.
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:45:23 AM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another man's belly laugh
- and that if you don't want people to treat your myths as myths then
keep them to yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn. You're in a fool's Paradise - not me.
BAM
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 10:19:06 AM |
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bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 10:34:24 AM |
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"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydncgzDLXm_LvdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
BAM
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| User: "ALOHA" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 06:06:35 PM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:GwtVb.9732$UF1.3963@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydncgzDLXm_LvdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
Paul was a great corrupter. He never was a disciple. He was a bit of a nut.
If GOD wants to reveal himself, he won't do it via a magic show. The entire
tale of the Virgin Birth, miracles, rising from the dead, the Trinity, etc.
is too bizarre to be believed.
That is why most Christians train their children from the earlies possible
age--before the children develop the ability to think critically.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 08:28:42 PM |
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:34:24 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> posted in alt.atheism:
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
He was right - you are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
That would be difficult, seeing that he didn't even exist.
--
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 10:39:25 AM |
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:34:24 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydncgzDLXm_LvdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales is alleged to have
said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it even reaches that
stage.
Until then it is no different than asking if Santa Claus really has a
magic sleigh pulled by flying reindeer.
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:02:09 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:pdpc20t561q33fqi9g2op9gtj8pf4b30pa@4ax.com...
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:34:24 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydncgzDLXm_LvdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales is alleged to have
said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it even reaches that
stage.
This is an incoherent response. Sorry to have flustered you. Or is your
intellect darkened by sin?
BAM
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:13:17 PM |
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On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:02:09 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:pdpc20t561q33fqi9g2op9gtj8pf4b30pa@4ax.com...
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:34:24 -0500, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b6ydncgzDLXm_LvdRVn-uQ@sti.net...
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales is alleged to have
said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it even reaches that
stage.
This is an incoherent response. Sorry to have flustered you. Or is your
intellect darkened by sin?
It's hardly incoherent - you have to demonstrate that he actually
existed and was killed the way you believe, and then that he rose from
the dead. Which of course you can't do.
Only then will your "if" be satisfied. Until then you have nothing
whatsoever to say on the subject.
And you flatter yourself if you imagine you've flustered me.
"Sin" is of course a concept that cannot apply to non-Christians.
If you say stupid things like you regularly do, people are going to
react to your stupidity.
BAM
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:57:41 PM |
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bam scribbled with his red crayon:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
"bam" wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You
must hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is
another man's belly laugh - and that if you
don't want people to treat your myths as myths
then keep them to yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****,
and you know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales is
alleged to have said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most
pitiable of creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it even
reaches that stage.
This is an incoherent response.
You mean like ALL of your responses? You have yet to say
anything of any intelligence. For your pea brain to
understand, I'll put it in simple, small, words for you: you
need to prove your little god exists before you can claim
anything about what it said or did.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 02:43:08 PM |
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"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cqmdnVOl45k4G7vdRVn-hQ@sti.net...
bam scribbled with his red crayon:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
"bam" wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You
must hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is
another man's belly laugh - and that if you
don't want people to treat your myths as myths
then keep them to yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****,
and you know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales is
alleged to have said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most
pitiable of creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it even
reaches that stage.
This is an incoherent response.
You mean like ALL of your responses? You have yet to say
anything of any intelligence. For your pea brain to
understand, I'll put it in simple, small, words for you: you
need to prove your little god exists before you can claim
anything about what it said or did.
Sorry bubster, but I don't have to prove diddly. Do what you want.
BAM
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 04:06:48 PM |
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bam barfed:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
bam scribbled with his red crayon:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
"bam" wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net>
wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You
must hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is
another man's belly laugh - and that if
you don't want people to treat your myths
as myths then keep them to yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of
*****, and you know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
As a character in an irrelevant book of fairy tales
is alleged to have said.
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the
most pitiable of creatures"
You are.
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
You have a heck of a lot of work to do before it
even reaches that stage.
This is an incoherent response.
You mean like ALL of your responses? You have yet to
say anything of any intelligence. For your pea brain to
understand, I'll put it in simple, small, words for
you: you need to prove your little god exists before
you can claim anything about what it said or did.
Sorry bubster
are you really this dense?
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 10:57:34 AM |
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bam wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
bam wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must
hate yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want
people to treat your myths as myths then keep them
to yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and
you know it.
We know where we stand.
Yes, you stand on a pile of *****. Your silly god didn't rise
from the dead because it never existed.
--
David V.
Yosemite Llama Ranch
UDP for WebTV
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:52:45 PM |
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bam wrote:
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
Then pony up some evidence that shows he did. If you can't do that, then you
won't be able to prove your "if" at all.
Well, go on. We're waiting.
::not holding breath::
*********************************************
"Why Does That Pickle You?" Zoe from Sluggy Freelance
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 12:55:10 PM |
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On 08 Feb 2004 18:52:45 GMT, mysteriox9000@aol.computron (Nick) wrote:
bam wrote:
Oh, the irony. And the sheer hypocrisy. You must hate
yourself.
You need to earn that one man's religion is another
man's belly laugh - and that if you don't want people
to treat your myths as myths then keep them to
yourself.
Don't tell me what I need to learn.
Someone has to. Your skypixie is a crock of *****, and you
know it.
We know where we stand. As St. Paul said:
"If Christ did not rise from the dead we are the most pitiable of
creatures"
But what if Christ *did* rise from the dead?
Then pony up some evidence that shows he did. If you can't do that, then you
won't be able to prove your "if" at all.
Its their dishonest get-out. As far as they are concerned he did so
the rest of it follows. But being sociopaths they can't grant that
this isn't valid for everybody else.
Well, go on. We're waiting.
::not holding breath::
*********************************************
"Why Does That Pickle You?" Zoe from Sluggy Freelance
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| User: "ALOHA" |
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| Title: Re: Question About Deism and the Founding Fathers |
08 Feb 2004 06:03:32 PM |
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:t3lb20tod4ra67179qo6tubsenopcqs3g8@4ax.com...
You need to earn that one man's religion is another man's belly laugh
- and that if you don't want people to treat your myths as myths then
keep them to yourself.
Christianity has has some degree of success because of pushy, ignorant
people who have imposed their myths upon others. I was one of their
victims, and I know from experience how one can set aside all powers of
reason and believe those tall tales.
Do you realize that there are millions that believe that Christ is coming
soon, at the end of the world? That the angel will blow a trumpet to signal
his arrival (he is to arrive in Jerusalem--that is going to be one hell of a
loud trumpet, if I am to hear it in Philadelphia!)
Any of the "Believers" that read my posts probably think that Satan or one
of his devils is standing beside me, prodding me with a pitchfork, to make
me do the Devil's bidding! What can we say to such people--their minds are
closed.
They won't even know that they have been in prison until they've broken out!
To any of them that may be having doubts, I ask these questions:
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that Adam and Eve ate an apple, and that was the
reason that all of us were "born in sin?"
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that you were born already condemned to HELL, because
of something that took place over 4,000 years ago?
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that the World was created in 6 days?
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that our geologists are wrong, when they tell us that
there is evidence that some rock formations are millions of years old?
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that you can be an educated person, and yet be bullied
by pompous religious leaders, who insist that you set aside your powers of
reason and accept their strange science WITHOUT QUESTION?
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that there is any REAL TRUTH in the conflicting
doctrines taught by the various religious denominations? Catholics pray to
"saints." Protestants do not. Catholics are taught that having sex while
wearing a condom is a sin that will land you in hell. Protestants have a
different view. Sevehtn Day Adventists believe that the sabbath is on
Saturday. Most other Christians believe it to be on Sunday.
The conflicts go on ad infinitum.
Do you really believe any of that silliness, or are you in denial? Is it
really possible to be educated and to still believe in all the myths taught
by religions?
I have concluded that it is not. What say everyone else?
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