Religions > Atheism > Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!)
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Donald E. Flood" |
| Date: |
17 Apr 2006 02:44:50 PM |
| Object: |
Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun, principally,
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise, the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me down"
as I type this?
How does this related to Atheism, you ask? Well, consciousness is similar
to the Earth's motion through space. We do not sense it, yet it is there.
No need to postulate immaterial entities for physical reality. But, please,
help me develop this idea further!
Thanks.
Don
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 05:29:42 PM |
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"Donald E. Flood" <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote in news:VQS0g.104733$oL.100863
@attbi_s71:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Klazmon.
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 05:47:38 PM |
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"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns97A96AC35C0B1Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
"Donald E. Flood" <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote in news:VQS0g.104733$oL.100863
@attbi_s71:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Klazmon.
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 06:53:51 PM |
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"Donald E. Flood" <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote in
news:eWU0g.902047$x96.172374@attbi_s72:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns97A96AC35C0B1Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
"Donald E. Flood" <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote in
news:VQS0g.104733$oL.100863 @attbi_s71:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour,
and traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just
under 68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth
is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not
"fly off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at
escape velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and
is moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be
correct to say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in
this chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)! But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed"
scientific journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You
don't need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff
out over three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations
yourself just plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Klazmon.
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while
since Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
Well I did stay awake some of the time at high school ;-).
Force Earth on me = GmME/re^2
Force Sun on me = GmMS/rs^2
Ratio of FEarth/FSun = (ME/MS) * (rs^2)/(re^2)
Note that G and m (my mass) cancel out.
MS = 1.98892 × 10^30 kilograms
ME = 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms
rs = 149,597,870.691 kilometers **
re = 6,378.135 kilometers ***
So we get near enough 3 * 10^-6 * 5.5 * 10^7 = 165.
I.e near the surface of the Earth, the Earth's gravity is one hundred and
sixty five times that of the Sun.
** (varies quite a bit during the Earth's orbit, so using the average)
*** (equatorial radius)
Feel free to fix any errors in the above.
Klazmon.
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 11:39:54 PM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in
news:Xns97A97907943D8Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6:
<SNIP>
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)! But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed"
scientific journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You
don't need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff
out over three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations
yourself just plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Klazmon.
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while
since Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
Well I did stay awake some of the time at high school ;-).
Force Earth on me = GmME/re^2
Force Sun on me = GmMS/rs^2
Ratio of FEarth/FSun = (ME/MS) * (rs^2)/(re^2)
Note that G and m (my mass) cancel out.
MS = 1.98892 × 10^30 kilograms
ME = 5.9742 × 10^24 kilograms
rs = 149,597,870.691 kilometers **
re = 6,378.135 kilometers ***
So we get near enough 3 * 10^-6 * 5.5 * 10^7 = 165.
Bzzt---------------------------------------->*
Whoops. Should be 3 * 10^-6 * 5.5 * 10^8 = 1650 ;-).
I.e near the surface of the Earth, the Earth's gravity is one hundred and
sixty five times that of the Sun.
Make that 1650 times as strong.
Klazmon.
** (varies quite a bit during the Earth's orbit, so using the average)
*** (equatorial radius)
Feel free to fix any errors in the above.
Klazmon.
.
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| User: "Dean" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 06:18:54 PM |
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Donald E. Flood wrote:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
I'm not sure I'd boast about majoring in physics after posing a
question that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Newtonian gravity
(which, despite its failure to explain how gravity acts, is a pretty
damn good model for predicting orbits and escape velocities).
Forgetting the details of subjects you studied in university is
forgivable (I've certainly forgotten anything I once knew about partial
differential equations) but to see your idea refuted by many others,
with supporting information, and to persist in your misunderstanding
isn't. I expect more from a physics grad.
You don't fly off the earth for the same reason a tennis ball tossed
upwards inside an airplane doesn't fly to the back of the plane at
450mph. You have zero speed relative to the earth, even if someone
standing on the surface of the sun sees you moving at speeds much
greater than Earth's escape velociy.
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 06:53:38 PM |
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"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145315934.549067.41130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Donald E. Flood wrote:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed"
scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You
don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out
over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while
since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
I'm not sure I'd boast about majoring in physics after posing a
question that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Newtonian gravity
(which, despite its failure to explain how gravity acts, is a pretty
damn good model for predicting orbits and escape velocities).
Forgetting the details of subjects you studied in university is
forgivable (I've certainly forgotten anything I once knew about partial
differential equations) but to see your idea refuted by many others,
with supporting information, and to persist in your misunderstanding
isn't. I expect more from a physics grad.
You don't fly off the earth for the same reason a tennis ball tossed
upwards inside an airplane doesn't fly to the back of the plane at
450mph. You have zero speed relative to the earth, even if someone
standing on the surface of the sun sees you moving at speeds much
greater than Earth's escape velociy.
Dean,
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit). Now, our velocity around the Sun is 68,000 mph, which means that
our tangential, instantaneous speed (the first derivative of our velocity)
would also be 68,000 mph, which is greater than the Earth's escape velocity.
Do you see where I am going with this. Yes, it would help if someone could
"do the math," but, yes, it has been over 20 years since I graduated from
college. My OP was done in good faith. Some posters were belligerent from
the start.
.
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| User: "Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness,too!) |
18 Apr 2006 03:35:09 AM |
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Donald E. Flood wrote:
Dean,
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion;
You HAVE to be taking the *****!
You think planes go in straight lines? How come after a 7 hour flight
you're not 2000 miles out in space then? Phyisics graduate, I think you
meant to say Media Studies.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 11:25:01 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
- Refer: <6UV0g.104960$oL.66258@attbi_s71>
:
college. My OP was done in good faith. Some posters were belligerent from
the start.
You either deserved it, or should be tested for brain damage.
Majored in Physics?!?
Pull the other one, it's got balls on it!
--
Michael Gray
Naivety is a gift for the infant, but disastrous for the adult.
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
12 Jul 2006 11:49:59 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145315934.549067.41130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Donald E. Flood wrote:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed"
scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You
don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out
over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while
since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
I'm not sure I'd boast about majoring in physics after posing a
question that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Newtonian gravity
(which, despite its failure to explain how gravity acts, is a pretty
damn good model for predicting orbits and escape velocities).
Forgetting the details of subjects you studied in university is
forgivable (I've certainly forgotten anything I once knew about partial
differential equations) but to see your idea refuted by many others,
with supporting information, and to persist in your misunderstanding
isn't. I expect more from a physics grad.
You don't fly off the earth for the same reason a tennis ball tossed
upwards inside an airplane doesn't fly to the back of the plane at
450mph. You have zero speed relative to the earth, even if someone
standing on the surface of the sun sees you moving at speeds much
greater than Earth's escape velociy.
Dean,
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit).
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
Now, our velocity around the Sun is 68,000 mph, which means that
our tangential, instantaneous speed (the first derivative of our velocity)
would also be 68,000 mph, which is greater than the Earth's escape velocity.
Do you see where I am going with this. Yes, it would help if someone could
"do the math," but, yes, it has been over 20 years since I graduated from
college. My OP was done in good faith. Some posters were belligerent from
the start.
.
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| User: "AZ Nomad" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
13 Jul 2006 11:15:42 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:49:59 GMT, William Wingstedt <William_Wingstedt@comcast.net> wrote:
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
The earth is constantly moving towards the sun. If you add the two vectors,
the earth current vector where it would go off on a tangent, and the vector
where the earth is being pulled to the sun, you get the orbit. Imagine
swinging a slingshot: the pull towards your hand pulls the swung object
into an orbit. Let go and it'll go off on a tangent.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
13 Jul 2006 12:37:10 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:49:59 GMT, in alt.atheism ,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) in
<4444e0ba.34393845@Newsgroups.Comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
[snip]
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit).
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
Nope, it is accelerated. Acceleration is change in velocity over
change in time, velocity is a vector with a speed and a direction
component. So a change in direction is a change in velocity which is
an acceleration. Gravity does it. Learn Classical Mechanics (Newtonian
physics) before you try to grasp relativity.
Now, our velocity around the Sun is 68,000 mph, which means that
our tangential, instantaneous speed (the first derivative of our velocity)
would also be 68,000 mph, which is greater than the Earth's escape velocity.
Do you see where I am going with this. Yes, it would help if someone could
"do the math," but, yes, it has been over 20 years since I graduated from
college. My OP was done in good faith. Some posters were belligerent from
the start.
And everything on the planet is moving at that speed and held in orbit
by the Sun's gravity. So the speed of the Earths orbit is irrelevant
to a question of escaping Earth's gravity.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Colin Day" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness,too!) |
13 Jul 2006 02:31:18 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:49:59 GMT, in alt.atheism ,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) in
<4444e0ba.34393845@Newsgroups.Comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
[snip]
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit).
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
Nope, it is accelerated. Acceleration is change in velocity over
change in time, velocity is a vector with a speed and a direction
component. So a change in direction is a change in velocity which is
an acceleration. Gravity does it. Learn Classical Mechanics (Newtonian
physics) before you try to grasp relativity.
While the motion is neither uniform nor "straight", in what sense is it
accelerated? Is gravity a force in the first place?
Colin Day aa #1500
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
14 Jul 2006 04:59:21 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:31:18 GMT, Colin Day <cday3@sc.rr.com> wrote:
- Refer: <acxtg.7196$4c7.4468@tornado.southeast.rr.com>
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:49:59 GMT, in alt.atheism ,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) in
<4444e0ba.34393845@Newsgroups.Comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
[snip]
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit).
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
Nope, it is accelerated. Acceleration is change in velocity over
change in time, velocity is a vector with a speed and a direction
component. So a change in direction is a change in velocity which is
an acceleration. Gravity does it. Learn Classical Mechanics (Newtonian
physics) before you try to grasp relativity.
While the motion is neither uniform nor "straight", in what sense is it
accelerated?
By definition.
Is gravity a force in the first place?
What is a 'force'?
It is no more than 'something' that causes a mass to accelerate.
Gravity is considered to be a pseudo-force.
Something that appears to be a force, but in fact is not.
Centrifugal "force" is similarly a pseudo-force.
--
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
13 Jul 2006 05:33:26 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:31:18 GMT, in alt.atheism , Colin Day
<cday3@sc.rr.com> in <acxtg.7196$4c7.4468@tornado.southeast.rr.com>
wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:49:59 GMT, in alt.atheism ,
William_Wingstedt@comcast.net (William Wingstedt) in
<4444e0ba.34393845@Newsgroups.Comcast.net> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
[snip]
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit).
Never having taken physics, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking
orbital motion is unaccelerated. The apparent curve is the "straight
line" in the curved space-time in the neighborhood of the object being
orbited. Therefore, our motion about the Sun *is* uniform, straight
line, and unaccelerated.
Nope, it is accelerated. Acceleration is change in velocity over
change in time, velocity is a vector with a speed and a direction
component. So a change in direction is a change in velocity which is
an acceleration. Gravity does it. Learn Classical Mechanics (Newtonian
physics) before you try to grasp relativity.
While the motion is neither uniform nor "straight", in what sense is it
accelerated?
I already gave the answer: delta V/delta T. That is what acceleration
means and that is what happens.
Is gravity a force in the first place?
Are you looking for a classical solution or do you think there is
something useful about a GR answer? That GR sees gravity as a
stretching of space does not eliminate the acceleration. The full
complete equation might get a bit more complicated, but you end up
with the same answer. Acceleration is *not* relative, it is
detectable.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "AZ Nomad" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 08:36:16 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:53:38 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Dean" <dionysus_2112@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145315934.549067.41130@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Donald E. Flood wrote:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed"
scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You
don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out
over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while
since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
I'm not sure I'd boast about majoring in physics after posing a
question that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Newtonian gravity
(which, despite its failure to explain how gravity acts, is a pretty
damn good model for predicting orbits and escape velocities).
Forgetting the details of subjects you studied in university is
forgivable (I've certainly forgotten anything I once knew about partial
differential equations) but to see your idea refuted by many others,
with supporting information, and to persist in your misunderstanding
isn't. I expect more from a physics grad.
You don't fly off the earth for the same reason a tennis ball tossed
upwards inside an airplane doesn't fly to the back of the plane at
450mph. You have zero speed relative to the earth, even if someone
standing on the surface of the sun sees you moving at speeds much
greater than Earth's escape velociy.
Dean,
Thanks for your thoughtful (and above all else, cordial) reply, but unlike
the example that you gave with the plane, our motion about the Sun is not
uniform, "straight-line" motion; rather, it is (approximately) circular
motion. Hence, we experience an acceleration towards the Sun (which keeps
in orbit). Now, our velocity around the Sun is 68,000 mph, which means that
our tangential, instantaneous speed (the first derivative of our velocity)
would also be 68,000 mph, which is greater than the Earth's escape velocity.
Do you see where I am going with this. Yes, it would help if someone could
"do the math," but, yes, it has been over 20 years since I graduated from
college. My OP was done in good faith. Some posters were belligerent from
the start.
A first semester physics book would explain orbital mechanics to you.
You really ought to read one.
Imagine if the sun vanished. The earth would fly off on a tangent. Take that
tangent as one vector.
Imagine the sun is back, but the earth is stopped. Gravity will pull the earth
towards the sun (and the sun towards the earth, but this can be ignored). The
motion of the earth towards the sun is another vector.
Take the first vector of where the earth would fly off on a tangent. Add the
second vector of the earth falling into the sun. Together they form a circular
path.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 11:23:21 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:47:38 GMT, "Donald E. Flood"
<Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
- Refer: <eWU0g.902047$x96.172374@attbi_s72>
:
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
I call "*****", Jehanne.
And Fucking *****, at that.
--
Michael Gray
Naivety is a gift for the infant, but disastrous for the adult.
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| User: "AZ Nomad" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 06:12:22 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:47:38 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns97A96AC35C0B1Klazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
"Donald E. Flood" <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote in news:VQS0g.104733$oL.100863
@attbi_s71:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
The questions you asked are at the level of high school physics. You don't
need a scientist to answer them. Isaac Newton worked this stuff out over
three hundred years ago. You can even do the calculations yourself just
plug the numbers into:
F = GmM/r^2
Klazmon.
Well, if you are so smart, then, please, demonstrate! (By the way, I
majored in physics at the University of Iowa, but, it has been a while since
Intermediate Mechanics, but, please, "do the math"!)
You also need to take a elementry school math course.
That formula is sixth grade math.
.
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| User: "AZ Nomad" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 03:38:39 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:25:25 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun, principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise, the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
then read a fucking textbook. It won't kill you.
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 04:04:29 PM |
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"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47vdj.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:25:25 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
then read a fucking textbook. It won't kill you.
/
Well, I guess we know where your "self esteem" comes from (or, rather, "lack
of it.") Are you an academic "flunky"? Didn't make it into graduate
school?? IMHO, the only "dumb question" is the one that doesn't get ask!
.
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| User: "AZ Nomad" |
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| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 04:32:20 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:04:29 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com> wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47vdj.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:25:25 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
then read a fucking textbook. It won't kill you.
/
Well, I guess we know where your "self esteem" comes from (or, rather, "lack
of it.") Are you an academic "flunky"? Didn't make it into graduate
school?? IMHO, the only "dumb question" is the one that doesn't get ask!
What is your point, *****?
.
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| User: "Donald E. Flood" |
|
| Title: Re: Question about the Earth's motion through space (and, consciousness, too!) |
17 Apr 2006 04:34:03 PM |
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"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne482i9.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:04:29 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47vdj.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:25:25 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
"AZ Nomad" <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> wrote in message
news:slrne47u4t.tm0.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:50 GMT, Donald E. Flood <Jehanne@mchsi.com>
wrote:
Everyone,
At the equator, the Earth turns at just over 1,000 miles per hour, and
traveling around the Sun, the Earth is going even faster at just under
68,000 miles per hour. Now, the "escape velocity" of the Earth is
around
24,000 miles per hour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity
Now, would it be correct to say that the reason why we all do not "fly
off"
into space would be due to the gravitational pull of the Sun,
principally,
not at all. The gravitation pull of the sun is neglible.
The reason we don't fly off the earth is that we're not moving at
escape
velocity in reference to the earth.
and that the gravitational pull of the Earth is secondary? Likewise,
the
Sun is moving through the Galaxy at around 580,000 miles per hour and
is
moving even faster through intergalactic space. Would it be correct
to
say
that the gravitational pull of the entire Galaxy is holding me in this
chair
as the Sun makes a "roughly circular" path around the center of the
Galaxy?
Likewise, the pull of the Local Group of Galaxies is also "holding me
down"
as I type this?
You need to take a high school physics course. A community college
first semester course would also do the trick.
Okay, fine, you know more than I do (which, apparently, isn't very
much)!
But, unless, you have published in respected "peer-reviewed" scientific
journals, you are still a "scientific nobody" (as am I).
then read a fucking textbook. It won't kill you.
/
Well, I guess we know where your "self esteem" comes from (or, rather,
"lack
of it.") Are you an academic "flunky"? Didn't make it into graduate
school?? IMHO, the only "dumb question" is the one that doesn't get ask!
What is your point, *****?
Please do not respond to ANY of my posts ever again (and, welcome, to my
"kill file.")
.
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