| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill Gamelson" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2005 04:37:37 PM |
| Object: |
Question for "Evolutionists" |
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 07:04:54 PM |
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"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns97108C7E7C6EEKlazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
What it there are invisible pixies that created the world last Monday?
It's
useless speculation without evidence to even entertain it other than as
fiction.
How are we supposed to find the evidence? By sitting on our butts and
claiming it can't be done?
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 07:28:49 PM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote in news:EAvef.14262
$0l5.9017@dukeread06:
"Llanzlan Klazmon" <Klazmon@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote in message
news:Xns97108C7E7C6EEKlazmonllurdiaxorbgo@203.97.37.6...
What it there are invisible pixies that created the world last Monday?
It's
useless speculation without evidence to even entertain it other than as
fiction.
How are we supposed to find the evidence? By sitting on our butts and
claiming it can't be done?
Well feel free to apply for a grant for your research. You could try these
guys:
http://www.nsf.gov/
Klazmon.
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| User: "Alan S" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 03:37:35 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
How are we supposed to find the evidence? By sitting on our butts and
claiming it can't be done?
You can try sitting on your head.
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:07:53 PM |
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nafc wrote:
"Psycho Dave" <psycho@weirdcrap.com> wrote in message
news:1132095238.894852.215700@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
I believe it is certainly a possibility.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us,
the universe did evolve, and they were here first?
It is highly doubtful. The distances between stars is so great as to
make such a thing very difficult. Why travel to a distant planet to
creat new life, when you can simply create is on your own world, or on
a world closer to your own? You cannot travel faster than light. It is
technically unfeasable. If you could travel 1/2 the speed of light,
you're still talking about at least an 8-to-10-year voyage just to get
to earth from another star system.
Problem is you're assuming the alien's level of technical and scientific
knowledge is no greater than ours. What if they're millions if not billions
of years more advanced than us.
what, then the laws of physics would not apply to them? I doubt it.
Another criticism of your idea is that from what we can tell, evolution
has no goal, it just happens based on what variations come up in the
organisms, how organisms interact, and conditions in local
environments. So if it were an experiment it appears to be completely
uncontrolled.
Jim
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| User: "nafc" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:37:15 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132099673.879206.252890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
nafc wrote:
"Psycho Dave" <psycho@weirdcrap.com> wrote in message
news:1132095238.894852.215700@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
I believe it is certainly a possibility.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us,
the universe did evolve, and they were here first?
It is highly doubtful. The distances between stars is so great as to
make such a thing very difficult. Why travel to a distant planet to
creat new life, when you can simply create is on your own world, or on
a world closer to your own? You cannot travel faster than light. It is
technically unfeasable. If you could travel 1/2 the speed of light,
you're still talking about at least an 8-to-10-year voyage just to get
to earth from another star system.
Problem is you're assuming the alien's level of technical and scientific
knowledge is no greater than ours. What if they're millions if not
billions
of years more advanced than us.
what, then the laws of physics would not apply to them? I doubt it.
That's the point I'm trying to make. You're assuming we know all there is
to know about physics. Throughout human history things that were once
thought impossible turned out later to be wrong.
Another criticism of your idea is that from what we can tell, evolution
has no goal, it just happens based on what variations come up in the
organisms, how organisms interact, and conditions in local
environments. So if it were an experiment it appears to be completely
uncontrolled.
Jim
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:41:24 PM |
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"nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:%avef.185$Zb2.120@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Problem is you're assuming the alien's level of technical and scientific
knowledge is no greater than ours. What if they're millions if not
billions
of years more advanced than us.
what, then the laws of physics would not apply to them? I doubt it.
That's the point I'm trying to make. You're assuming we know all there is
to know about physics. Throughout human history things that were once
thought impossible turned out later to be wrong.
Exactamendo!
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| User: "Alan S" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 03:36:13 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:37:15 GMT, "nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
That's the point I'm trying to make. You're assuming we know all there is
to know about physics. Throughout human history things that were once
thought impossible turned out later to be wrong.
Not really. If you count in an unbiased fashion, you'll find out that
almost all things that were once thought impossible still are. Only an
extremely tiny fraction (although disproportionately publicised post
hoc) of all things thought impossible are actually seen to be
possible.
I'm not claiming we have exhausted physics. However, one can sense
getting asymptotically closer. There's no reason to assume there will
always be major breakthroughs. It's more likely that the next
perturbation will take much more effort than the last and will cause a
much smaller change in our understanding. Our current understanding is
fundementally almost a century old now and even theoretical progress
has stagnated considerably since the 70s.
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| User: "nafc" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 04:26:06 AM |
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"Alan S" <AlanS222@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6duln1p0nu8qk6c6d1fc2kp7tck3upjmsq@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:37:15 GMT, "nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
That's the point I'm trying to make. You're assuming we know all there is
to know about physics. Throughout human history things that were once
thought impossible turned out later to be wrong.
Not really. If you count in an unbiased fashion, you'll find out that
almost all things that were once thought impossible still are. Only an
extremely tiny fraction (although disproportionately publicised post
hoc) of all things thought impossible are actually seen to be
possible.
I'm not claiming we have exhausted physics. However, one can sense
getting asymptotically closer. There's no reason to assume there will
always be major breakthroughs. It's more likely that the next
perturbation will take much more effort than the last and will cause a
much smaller change in our understanding. Our current understanding is
fundementally almost a century old now and even theoretical progress
has stagnated considerably since the 70s.
Point taken. Excellent post there Alan.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:40:12 PM |
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"J Forbes" <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:1132099673.879206.252890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Problem is you're assuming the alien's level of technical and scientific
knowledge is no greater than ours. What if they're millions if not
billions
of years more advanced than us.
what, then the laws of physics would not apply to them? I doubt it.
Another criticism of your idea is that from what we can tell, evolution
has no goal, it just happens based on what variations come up in the
organisms, how organisms interact, and conditions in local
environments. So if it were an experiment it appears to be completely
uncontrolled.
Exactly. The conditions of their evolvement would have to be the same if
they want to arrive at a scientific conclusion.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 11:08:18 AM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and "Psycho Dave"
<psycho@weirdcrap.com> posting the following on 15 Nov 2005 14:53:58
-0800 iin alt.atheism?
You cannot travel faster than light.
As far as we know.
There are several interesting theories on how we might someday be able
to break the light-speed barrier, but all they are right now are vague
concepts.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Tink" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 07:34:11 AM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
There is probably life on other worlds where the right conditions exist.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
The vastness of space makes that a highly unlikely scenario.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
Nope. Go take a course in basic biology and genetics. Then ask that
question.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
Nope. Not even close.
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 05:06:06 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
"may be"? Yes. It's entirely possible.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Also theoretically possible.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
We don't know that. But we have no reason to think that this is the
case. And by Occam's razor, we prefer the simpler answer that fits the
data.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
No. It's simply speculation. You clearly, like most fundies, do not
understand the idea of science. Science involves drawing conclusions
from the evidence, not searching for evidence to fit your imaginings.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:07:20 PM |
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"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132095966.016130.168730@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to
cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans.
How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
We don't know that. But we have no reason to think that this is the
case.
How about UFO sightings and the possibility that these may be alians from
another planet?
And by Occam's razor, we prefer the simpler answer that fits the
data.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it
not?
No. It's simply speculation. You clearly, like most fundies, do not
understand the idea of science. Science involves drawing conclusions
from the evidence, not searching for evidence to fit your imaginings.
In order to draw a conclusion from the evidence, the evidence must first be
found.
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| User: "Alan S" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 03:44:32 AM |
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"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
How about UFO sightings and the possibility that these may be alians from
another planet?
I don't know what "alians" are but only some UFOs are really UFOs,
some are neither flying nor objects and most are misidentified. Maybe
few UFOs are flying saucers, the only mystery being who it was that
threw them out the kitchen window.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:49:26 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
I certainly consider it a possibility.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us
Some updated form of the Drake equations might suggest that there is
intelligent life in our galaxy or some other. But it becomes much less
probable to imagine that such lifeforms are in contact with us, or have
been in contact with us. Why do you suppose that we, or the aliens for
that matter, needed to be created.
, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
No, because we can document evolution on the order of billions of years
and, in that time, things would change so radically that their
"creations" would bear little or no resemblance to what they had
originally "designed". I suppose that next you will tell me that the
aliens designed radiocarbon dating and the fossil record to make it
look like the world is really billions of years old when it is not.
Also, how about all the evidence for complex organic compounds like
aldehydes in interstellar dust clouds and the presence of precursors
for life on carbonaceous comets? Are we to believe that the aliens
designed these things too? Why do you find it so hard to accept that,
in a universe as vast as our own that self-replicating chemical
reactions could arise?
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
As Bertrand Russell asked, how do you know that the universe wasn't
created last tuesday, but made to look as though it were not? You are
engaging in a form of solipsism. I suppose that we could all be
simulations on a holodeck inside some advanced computer. But such
lines of inquiry are not particularly useful, as they present
essentially no prospect of being verified definitively, one way or the
other.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
Not really. First of all, possible does not equate to plausible.
Secondly, you have presented no evidence in favor of your theory. You
have only tried to draw some weak analogies upon which you wildly
speculate and unreliably speculate. What we know is that things exist
and that they had to be somehow. If they were not one way, then they
would be another. It's reasonable to suppose the gradual development
of life over aeons, but there were entities "creating" life out there,
then they have a lot of explaining to do as to what happened over all
the intervening years. If a god could create people in a matter of
days then trillions upon trillions of civilizations could have risen
and fallen in relatively brief spans. The geologic time scale gives
lie to creationism.
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 07:00:05 PM |
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<quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132102166.047923.91660@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
I certainly consider it a possibility.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us
Some updated form of the Drake equations might suggest that there is
intelligent life in our galaxy or some other. But it becomes much less
probable to imagine that such lifeforms are in contact with us, or have
been in contact with us. Why do you suppose that we, or the aliens for
that matter, needed to be created.
You expect me to be able to provide all the answers? I'm simply suggesting
a possibility. I do not have all the answers.
[snip]
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
17 Nov 2005 10:22:34 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
Maybe.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Then who created them?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
It's pointless. You've gone from assuming God created us to assuming God
created our creators.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
17 Nov 2005 11:00:38 PM |
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In article <dljkub3ua2@enews2.newsguy.com>, Tim McGaughy
<teekem@ispwest.com> wrote:
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
Maybe.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Then who created them?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence,
would it
not?
It's pointless. You've gone from assuming God created us to assuming God
created our creators.
If there is intelligent life on other planets, that could mean that God
created intelligent life on our planet and at least one or more other
planets.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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| User: "Ian Braidwood" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 05:02:53 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
Personally, I would be very surprised if there wasn't.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
I can't rule this out, but do you have any reason to think this has
happened? If not, then your brain might be better used speculating
about something which could conceivably be answered.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
It's not scientific because there isn't a shred of evidence to support
the idea, even though it can't be ruled out as a possibility. However,
space aliens is just as unsatisfying an answer to how we all got here
as God, because all it does is pose the question of where they came
from. If it is too incredible to you that humans could have evolved,
then why is it more rational to you to suppose life came from
elsewhere?
Since we have fossil evidence for ancient hominids, there is reason to
think we evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, so what is
the point of speculating about extraterrestrials?
Science has been successful, because it had concentrated upon questions
which can be addressed with some hope of getting an answer and leaving
ineffabilities to religion; it is a method, not a doctrine.
(-: Ian :-)
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:04:44 PM |
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"Ian Braidwood" <diri.gini@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:1132095773.659798.20030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Personally, I would be very surprised if there wasn't.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
I can't rule this out, but do you have any reason to think this has
happened? If not, then your brain might be better used speculating
about something which could conceivably be answered.
If we went through life speculating about something which could conceivably
be answered, science would never advance.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to
cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans.
How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it
not?
It's not scientific because there isn't a shred of evidence to support
the idea, even though it can't be ruled out as a possibility.
That's what I'm saying, is that it may be a possibility. The evidence would
have to be discovered.
However,
space aliens is just as unsatisfying an answer to how we all got here
as God, because all it does is pose the question of where they came
from. If it is too incredible to you that humans could have evolved,
then why is it more rational to you to suppose life came from
elsewhere?
Is this not what NASA has been trying to do? Finding evidence of life on
Mars? I'm just trying to "go with the flow" here.
Since we have fossil evidence for ancient hominids, there is reason to
think we evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, so what is
the point of speculating about extraterrestrials?
That is exactly what I am saying! We may have evolved from chimpanzees
which evolved from fish which evolved from micro-organisms and so may have
these space alians. They of course being millions of years ahead of us in
the course of life would have evolved into something even more intelligent
and they might just have the process of life pegged.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 05:21:22 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
"Ian Braidwood" <diri.gini@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:1132095773.659798.20030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Personally, I would be very surprised if there wasn't.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
I can't rule this out, but do you have any reason to think this has
happened? If not, then your brain might be better used speculating
about something which could conceivably be answered.
If we went through life speculating about something which could conceivably
be answered, science would never advance.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to
cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans.
How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it
not?
It's not scientific because there isn't a shred of evidence to support
the idea, even though it can't be ruled out as a possibility.
That's what I'm saying, is that it may be a possibility. The evidence would
have to be discovered.
Ideally, the evidence comes first and the researcher builds a
hypothesis to explain it, which is then tested and refined over time.
It's not good science to try and prove an idea true.
However,
space aliens is just as unsatisfying an answer to how we all got here
as God, because all it does is pose the question of where they came
from. If it is too incredible to you that humans could have evolved,
then why is it more rational to you to suppose life came from
elsewhere?
Is this not what NASA has been trying to do? Finding evidence of life on
Mars? I'm just trying to "go with the flow" here.
To be brutal, I think NASA's eye is on its budget when it talks about
life on Mars; but if it were true, then we'd have to look how closely
that life resembles ours. If the resemblance is close, then some form
of panspermia is the best bet, as suggested by the late Fred Hoyle.
If the life is very different, then that would be evidence that life is
actually a likely outcome of planetary chemistry
Since we have fossil evidence for ancient hominids, there is reason to
think we evolved from a common ancestor with chimpanzees, so what is
the point of speculating about extraterrestrials?
That is exactly what I am saying! We may have evolved from chimpanzees
which evolved from fish which evolved from micro-organisms and so may have
these space alians. They of course being millions of years ahead of us in
the course of life would have evolved into something even more intelligent
and they might just have the process of life pegged.
Two things: We didn't evolve from chimpanzees, we share a common
ancestor who lived about five million years ago IIRC.
The assumption that life is inherently progressive is unfounded, though
some biologists - Richard Dawkins among them - believe it is. This
means that there may be no 'levels' through which life evolves to
godlike potency.
The other thing which weighs against the space-aliens-as-gods
hypothesis is the speed of light limitation, which makes ineterstellar
travel impractical. Of course, they could seed Earth with bacteria, but
there would be no design involved and no benefit whatsoever, for the
aliens' investment of time and energy. More likely would be a Von
Neuman machine, but then we'd all be robots.
(-: Ian :-)
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 11:36:02 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
slim possibility, but nothing like what we call intelligent life
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Idiot
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
see above
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
No
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 11:46:29 PM |
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bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> said:
Bill Gamelson wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
slim possibility, but nothing like what we call intelligent life
.... or nothing like what would call us intelligent life.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 04:21:02 PM |
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In <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
Nobody knows.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Interesting thought but is there evidence?
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to
cloning human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE
humans. How do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that
we have been long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of
us in technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in
their search to explain THEIR existence?
I think Douglas Adams beat you to that one.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it not?
Not without evidence. Otherwise, it's just interesting speculation...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 04:33:42 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:hcWdnS6l9Ip_LebeRVn-qw@megapath.net...
In <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Nobody knows.
I didn't ask if anyone knew, I asked if anyone believed.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Interesting thought but is there evidence?
Not that I know of.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it not?
Not without evidence. Otherwise, it's just interesting speculation...
That's exactly what I intended it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 09:28:19 PM |
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In <WsOef.16613$0l5.11725@dukeread06>, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:hcWdnS6l9Ip_LebeRVn-qw@megapath.net...
In <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Nobody knows.
I didn't ask if anyone knew, I asked if anyone believed.
Belief is irrelevant.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Interesting thought but is there evidence?
Not that I know of.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence,
would it not?
Not without evidence. Otherwise, it's just interesting speculation...
That's exactly what I intended it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
Shrug.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
17 Nov 2005 05:41:28 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:-7adnQ0e_4N6ZebeRVn-uA@megapath.net...
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Nobody knows.
I didn't ask if anyone knew, I asked if anyone believed.
Belief is irrelevant.
Then why did you even bother to answer the question?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 05:21:24 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:33:42 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:hcWdnS6l9Ip_LebeRVn-qw@megapath.net...
In <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other
planets?
Nobody knows.
I didn't ask if anyone knew, I asked if anyone believed.
Why are you so hung up on reducing things to beliefs when there are
better words that accurately describe what is being communicated?
Funny thing, you don't mind using "know" in the bait'n'switch false
trichotomy of believer, atheist, agnostic.
Which get both the generic atheist and agnostic positions wrong, but
this never seems to bother those theists who tell us what our POV
"really" is.
Why should somebody arbitrarily believe in gods or intelligent life on
other planets?
Why not take the trouble to acknowledge people's actual positions
instead of asking silly questions which merely show you ignore them?
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
Interesting thought but is there evidence?
Not that I know of.
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would
it not?
Not without evidence. Otherwise, it's just interesting speculation...
That's exactly what I intended it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 08:50:12 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:37:37 -0600, "Bill Gamelson"
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
Probably.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
So small a possibility that it's essentially 0.
Are you a Sitchinite?
Don
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
16 Nov 2005 01:30:50 AM |
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In article <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>,
"Bill Gamelson" <bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
We have insufficient data to make a conclusion either way.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
See above.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
What evidence do you have for this?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
It would not explain the origin of the 'creator' species. Where did they
come from?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 06:12:45 PM |
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In article <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, Bill Gamelson
<bill_gamelson@yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very close to cloning
human beings. This is the first step in learning how to CREATE humans. How
do you know that these space aliens on a distant planet that we have been
long searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science experiment in their
search to explain THEIR existence?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our existence, would it
not?
It's elephants all the way down.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middla Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Lars Eighner" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 09:01:48 PM |
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In our last episode, <zqtef.14225$0l5.510@dukeread06>, the
lovely and talented Bill Gamelson broadcast on alt.atheism:
Do you really believe that there may be intelligent life on other planets?
There might be.
If so, what about the possibility that THEY may have created us, the
universe did evolve, and they were here first?
There is no evidence to support that. The evidence is very
clear that life evolved on this planet. The DNA evidence is
that life on this planet all has a common ancestor, and the
fossil record is very clear about the time that descent has
taken.
Could that common ancester have been an intergalactic microbe
on a beer can a space alien tossed at Earth. Sure. And that is
compatible with evolution, because evolution has absolutely
nothing to say about where that common ancestor came from.
After all, we have successfully cloned animals and are very
close to cloning human beings. This is the first step in
learning how to CREATE humans. How do you know that these
space aliens on a distant planet that we have been long
searching for are not simply millions of years ahead of us in
technology and they created us as a long-term science
experiment in their search to explain THEIR existence?
It is clear that there was no special creation of human beings
apart from other life forms on earth. To deliberately create
human beings by planting a microbe and waiting for it to evolve
would require the ability to predict countless factors such as
climate changes on earth.
What is more, there is a lot of junk in the human genome.
If any intelligent being had deliberately created human beings,
it would not have included genetic junk which is never expressed
at any time in human life -- for pretty much the same reason
that no intelligent programmer uses 10,000 lines of code to
write a "Hello, world!" program.
Then there is the issue of where are these space aliens
and where did they go and how they did that without leaving
any evidence. If they were running an experiment, surely
they would run it where they could observe the outcome,
so if they can see us, why can't we see them?
That would be a plausible scientific explanation for our
existence, would it not?
There is no evidence one way or another for the microbe on the
cosmic beer can theory. Evolution is about the origin of
species, not the origin of life. So evolution has nothing to
say on this subject.
All the evidence is against the special creation of human beings
apart from the other species.
--
Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC http://www.larseighner.com/
The Mint Jelly of GodŽ -- The World's Best Atheist -- Unholier Than Thou
First Church of Electro-Baptism ***Atheist #1965*** One Short Circuit to Jesus
Jesus Loves Me, This I Know / For the Voices Tell Me So.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Question for "Evolutionists" |
15 Nov 2005 05:37:14 PM |
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Oh come on. There are mountains of evidence that we evolved from
earlier life forms over millions and millions of years. Are you really
saying that aliens came here in the past 30,000 years and cleverly
planted modern homo sapiens amongst all the other existing species
including some that we share 97% of our DNA with?
That being said, your explanation is WAY MORE plausible than the
stories cooked up by theists; at least in YOUR theory the aliens would
have had to evolve too. I would give your theory several decimal places
more likely odds than, say, christianity, which hovers at zero percent.
My idiot brother believes in the Book of Urantia, which is more or less
what you have theoried. Check it out! The world needs more lunatic
cultists.
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