Question to Atheists



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "AcesLucky"
Date: 15 Oct 2006 08:16:40 AM
Object: Question to Atheists
This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).
What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?
(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")
Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?
AcesLucky
.

User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 05:01:40 PM
Denis Loubet wrote:

"AcesLucky" <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09...

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?


The extent to which coincidence looks like cruel humor.



Excellent! So far your answer makes the most sense without an apparent
bias! And subtly instructive.
I'm going to keep this one (hope you don't mind).
.
User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 05:57:09 PM
"AcesLucky" <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:8dyYg.3815$ef2.2104@fed1read09...

Denis Loubet wrote:

"AcesLucky" <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09...

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?


The extent to which coincidence looks like cruel humor.




Excellent! So far your answer makes the most sense without an apparent
bias! And subtly instructive.

I'm going to keep this one (hope you don't mind).

Knock yourself out! ;-)
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.


User: "R. Pierce Butler"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 08:39:07 AM
AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?

AcesLucky

What would be your best argument is "support" of Santa Clause or a
unicorn?
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 01:00:08 PM
R. Pierce Butler wrote:

AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:


This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?

AcesLucky



What would be your best argument is "support" of Santa Clause or a
unicorn?

Movies.
.
User: "R. Pierce Butler"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 04:16:31 PM
AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:IMPYg.3871$ef2.2252@fed1read09:

R. Pierce Butler wrote:

AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:


This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly
on questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered
by stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?

AcesLucky



What would be your best argument is "support" of Santa Clause or a
unicorn?


Movies.

I guess that about wraps it up for God, Harvey, OZ, ET, and many, many
more.
.

User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 18 Oct 2006 06:24:57 PM
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:00:08 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote in alt.atheism

R. Pierce Butler wrote:

AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:


This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?

AcesLucky



What would be your best argument is "support" of Santa Clause or a
unicorn?


Movies.

Fictional support for a fictional concept.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.



User: "Enkidu"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 08:35:51 AM
AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

So . . . when "so many people believed" the sun went around the Earth,
it did? When "so many people believed" the Earth was flat, it was?
When "so many people believed" God spoke to prophets, telling them to
rape, pillage, murder, enslave, that such behavior was {and still is)
good and right?

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?

Nothing. There can be no evidence for a god that cannot be explaind by
lies, deception (including unintentional self-deception), or ignorance.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself. It is the
hallmark of an authoritarian regime..."
-- Justice Potter Stewart, dissenting Ginzberg v. United
States
.
User: "Mike Anderson"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 17 Oct 2006 11:06:13 AM
Enkidu wrote:

AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")


So . . . when "so many people believed" the sun went around the Earth,
it did? When "so many people believed" the Earth was flat, it was?
When "so many people believed" God spoke to prophets, telling them to
rape, pillage, murder, enslave, that such behavior was {and still is)
good and right?

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?


Nothing. There can be no evidence for a god that cannot be explaind by
lies, deception (including unintentional self-deception), or ignorance.

I think what Aceslucky was trying to say is "what evidence, if present,
would convince you that there is a god?"
But the problem is to first define what a god is supposed to be. I.e.
"what evidence would convince you that a broytbjoty exists?" If I don't
define a broytbjoty so that you could tell it from a non-broytbjoty,
then it's impossible to answer the question. I can define a unicorn so
that you could tell it from a non-unicorn and thus we could agree on
what evidence would support its existence (if it did exist) but we don't
even have a firm definition of "god" yet.
--
Mike
-------------------------------
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we," George W. "Shrub" Bush Aug 5, 2004
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 17 Oct 2006 04:57:22 PM
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:06:13 -0400, Mike Anderson
<prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:
- Refer: <eh2uv0$914$1@news04.infoave.net>

Enkidu wrote:

AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net> wrote in
news:YwqYg.3799$ef2.201@fed1read09:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be
interesting (to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")


So . . . when "so many people believed" the sun went around the Earth,
it did? When "so many people believed" the Earth was flat, it was?
When "so many people believed" God spoke to prophets, telling them to
rape, pillage, murder, enslave, that such behavior was {and still is)
good and right?

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support
of a god?


Nothing. There can be no evidence for a god that cannot be explaind by
lies, deception (including unintentional self-deception), or ignorance.


I think what Aceslucky was trying to say is "what evidence, if present,
would convince you that there is a god?"

But the problem is to first define what a god is supposed to be. I.e.
"what evidence would convince you that a broytbjoty exists?" If I don't
define a broytbjoty so that you could tell it from a non-broytbjoty,
then it's impossible to answer the question. I can define a unicorn so
that you could tell it from a non-unicorn and thus we could agree on
what evidence would support its existence (if it did exist) but we don't
even have a firm definition of "god" yet.

I have a holy book that venerates the broytbjoty.
How dare you use its name in vain!
.



User: "leo"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 12:00:39 PM
AcesLucky ha escrito:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

AcesLucky

I cannot imagine any argument as a prove of the existence of god.
To believe in a god is the result of an slavement of the mind. Any
atheist can end believing in god if held in captivity and conditioned
appropiately. Remember the so called Stockolm syndrome. Anyone can
end believing any sort of crap in certain conditions.
Leopoldo
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 12:16:05 PM
On 15 Oct 2006 10:00:39 -0700, "leo" <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com>
wrote:


AcesLucky ha escrito:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

AcesLucky


I cannot imagine any argument as a prove of the existence of god.

Which is why vos Savant's is the best. They're all *****-poor but this
one is all they have going for it. It's an admission that there isn't
one that is any good.

To believe in a god is the result of an slavement of the mind. Any
atheist can end believing in god if held in captivity and conditioned
appropiately. Remember the so called Stockolm syndrome. Anyone can
end believing any sort of crap in certain conditions.
Leopoldo

.


User: "Kilmir"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 02:15:52 AM
AcesLucky schreef:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

AcesLucky

The one used by the few semi-religious people I know basically amounts
to:
"Believeing in a supreme being or a force behind everything makes me
feel good and gives me peace of mind"
Ofcourse you could state that that's a bogus argument and it has no
logical ground to stand on, but this is what keeps the superstitious
and sort of religious friends of mine stick to what they believe
despite all counterarguments. One could argue that it would be a decent
argument for a god because it supposedly does have an effect (at least
for those that believe it).
Kilmir
#1944
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 03:36:19 PM
Kilmir wrote:

AcesLucky schreef:


This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

AcesLucky


The one used by the few semi-religious people I know basically amounts
to:
"Believeing in a supreme being or a force behind everything makes me
feel good and gives me peace of mind"


Ofcourse you could state that that's a bogus argument and it has no
logical ground to stand on, but this is what keeps the superstitious
and sort of religious friends of mine stick to what they believe
despite all counterarguments. One could argue that it would be a decent
argument for a god because it supposedly does have an effect (at least
for those that believe it).


Kilmir
#1944


Yes, I have experienced the same thing. That is exactly why I posed the
question to atheist.
..
.

User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 05:04:24 AM
On 16 Oct 2006 00:15:52 -0700, "Kilmir" <Kilmir@gmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1160982952.194326.316930@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>


AcesLucky schreef:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

AcesLucky


The one used by the few semi-religious people I know basically amounts
to:
"Believeing in a supreme being or a force behind everything makes me
feel good and gives me peace of mind"

That would be the god called "alcohol".

Ofcourse you could state that that's a bogus argument and it has no
logical ground to stand on, but this is what keeps the superstitious
and sort of religious friends of mine stick to what they believe
despite all counterarguments. One could argue that it would be a decent
argument for a god because it supposedly does have an effect (at least
for those that believe it).


Kilmir
#1944

.


User: "bk"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 22 Oct 2006 05:50:31 PM
AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

"Our eyes see the world through a narrow slit in the electromagnetic
spectrum. Visible light is a chink of brightness in the vast dark
spectrum, from radio waves at the long end to gamma rays at the short
end." - Richard Dawkins
Our assumptions could very well be a narrow slit. What we think is a
'reasonable' universe is constrained by the limitations of human
reasoning. How can we know what is really out there or what should be
out there? The human mind is forlornly underequipped to cope with
ranges of reason outside the narrow range of the experientially
familiar. Maybe reason itself is a human construct. Perhaps things
exist that defy logic and human understanding.
It would be to my benefit to have the above torn apart - help
yourselves. :-)

AcesLucky

.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 23 Oct 2006 04:29:05 PM
bk wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



"Our eyes see the world through a narrow slit in the electromagnetic
spectrum. Visible light is a chink of brightness in the vast dark
spectrum, from radio waves at the long end to gamma rays at the short
end." - Richard Dawkins

Our assumptions could very well be a narrow slit. What we think is a
'reasonable' universe is constrained by the limitations of human
reasoning. How can we know what is really out there or what should be
out there? The human mind is forlornly underequipped to cope with
ranges of reason outside the narrow range of the experientially
familiar. Maybe reason itself is a human construct. Perhaps things
exist that defy logic and human understanding.

It would be to my benefit to have the above torn apart - help
yourselves. :-)





AcesLucky



I would agree, but how does any of this find support in favor of a god?
.


User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 01:52:32 PM
AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

Now there's a conundrum. Asking atheists to argue in favor of the
existence of something they don't believe exists. So what's your best
argument in support of the existence of leprechauns?
Uncle Vic
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 04:49:50 PM
Uncle Vic wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



Now there's a conundrum. Asking atheists to argue in favor of the
existence of something they don't believe exists. So what's your best
argument in support of the existence of leprechauns?

Uncle Vic


Hey, Unc.
For leprechauns? I'd say many traditional years of great booz and
clovers. Oh, and Lucky Charms cereal.
Also, in response to the conundrum, atheists would be the perfect
people, because I'm looking for an "honest" response, which I have
discovered is outside the realm of faith. Lying is a /requirement/ of
faith! It is not required of reason.
So, based on reason; what would be your best argument in support of one?
.
User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 06:11:39 PM
AcesLucky wrote:

Uncle Vic wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



Now there's a conundrum. Asking atheists to argue in favor of the
existence of something they don't believe exists. So what's your best
argument in support of the existence of leprechauns?

Uncle Vic


Hey, Unc.

For leprechauns? I'd say many traditional years of great booz and
clovers. Oh, and Lucky Charms cereal.

Also, in response to the conundrum, atheists would be the perfect
people, because I'm looking for an "honest" response, which I have
discovered is outside the realm of faith. Lying is a /requirement/ of
faith! It is not required of reason.

So, based on reason; what would be your best argument in support of one?

Reason does not support gods. Sorry.
Uncle Vic
.



User: "MemePilot"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 15 Oct 2006 09:13:55 PM
AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?

Ok I'll bite. Honestly the closest I come is that I some times I miss
the belonging that came from being in an organized religion and
sometime is a little envious at the closeness and bonding of some of my
theistic friends. Admittedly this may be thought of as more an
argument in support of believing in god than an argument in support of
god, but its as close as I come. As for an arguments in support of god
I can't say their is any one that I would consider strong or less wrong
than the others, which seems to be the consensus of the atheist in
attendance.
Now to test the honesty on our theistic brethren and in the spirit of
"do unto others, as you would have them do unto you", I ask all you
theist:
What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?
MemePilot
"Believing is seeing"
.
User: "Bobby Bryant"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 02:24:31 AM
In article <1160964835.040996.320730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"MemePilot" <memepilot@cox.net> writes:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?

Since gods are generally conceived to have extraordinary powers and
arbitrary wills, any observation is compatible with the existence of
a god. I don't think you can offer a rational argument against the
existence of such a being, any more than you can offer one _for_ the
existence.
--
Bobby Bryant
Reno, Nevada
Remove your hat to reply by e-mail.
.
User: "MemePilot"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 06:03:42 AM
Bobby Bryant wrote:

In article <1160964835.040996.320730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"MemePilot" <memepilot@cox.net> writes:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?


Since gods are generally conceived to have extraordinary powers and
arbitrary wills, any observation is compatible with the existence of
a god. I don't think you can offer a rational argument against the
existence of such a being, any more than you can offer one _for_ the
existence.

Hmm very simular to the Atheist only reversed. I would have expect
nothing less. Stupid question wasn't it
.
User: "Michael Gray"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 07:03:05 AM
On 16 Oct 2006 04:03:42 -0700, "MemePilot" <memepilot@cox.net> wrote:
- Refer: <1160996621.971975.22540@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>


Bobby Bryant wrote:

In article <1160964835.040996.320730@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"MemePilot" <memepilot@cox.net> writes:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?


Since gods are generally conceived to have extraordinary powers and
arbitrary wills, any observation is compatible with the existence of
a god. I don't think you can offer a rational argument against the
existence of such a being, any more than you can offer one _for_ the
existence.


Hmm very simular to the Atheist only reversed. I would have expect
nothing less.
Stupid question wasn't it

Yes, very.
.



User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 03:29:53 PM
MemePilot wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



Ok I'll bite. Honestly the closest I come is that I some times I miss
the belonging that came from being in an organized religion and
sometime is a little envious at the closeness and bonding of some of my
theistic friends. Admittedly this may be thought of as more an
argument in support of believing in god than an argument in support of
god, but its as close as I come. As for an arguments in support of god
I can't say their is any one that I would consider strong or less wrong
than the others, which seems to be the consensus of the atheist in
attendance.

Now to test the honesty on our theistic brethren and in the spirit of
"do unto others, as you would have them do unto you", I ask all you
theist:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?

MemePilot
"Believing is seeing"


Death.
So far as any have witnessed there is no such thing as eternal life.
Seeing some being that can demonstrate immortality might be simply a
highly evolved being; but seeing an actual demonstratively immortal
would surely pique my interest into the possibility!
Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.
My best argument "against" the existence of a god is the complete lack
of any demonstrable immortality.
.
User: "MemePilot"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 05:19:15 PM
AcesLucky wrote:

MemePilot wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



Ok I'll bite. Honestly the closest I come is that I some times I miss
the belonging that came from being in an organized religion and
sometime is a little envious at the closeness and bonding of some of my
theistic friends. Admittedly this may be thought of as more an
argument in support of believing in god than an argument in support of
god, but its as close as I come. As for an arguments in support of god
I can't say their is any one that I would consider strong or less wrong
than the others, which seems to be the consensus of the atheist in
attendance.

Now to test the honesty on our theistic brethren and in the spirit of
"do unto others, as you would have them do unto you", I ask all you
theist:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?

MemePilot
"Believing is seeing"



Death.

So far as any have witnessed there is no such thing as eternal life.
Seeing some being that can demonstrate immortality might be simply a
highly evolved being; but seeing an actual demonstratively immortal
would surely pique my interest into the possibility!

Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.

My best argument "against" the existence of a god is the complete lack
of any demonstrable immortality.

good answer, are you a theist or atheist?
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 17 Oct 2006 01:37:05 PM
MemePilot wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:

MemePilot wrote:

AcesLucky wrote:


This is an honest question to which an honest reply would be interesting
(to me).

What would be your best argument in "support" of a god?

(As an aside, Marilyn vos Savant [who claims not to answer publicly on
questions of religion or god but did venture this one] answered by
stating, "because so many people believe in one.")

Without being dishonest, what would be your best argument in support of
a god?



Ok I'll bite. Honestly the closest I come is that I some times I miss
the belonging that came from being in an organized religion and
sometime is a little envious at the closeness and bonding of some of my
theistic friends. Admittedly this may be thought of as more an
argument in support of believing in god than an argument in support of
god, but its as close as I come. As for an arguments in support of god
I can't say their is any one that I would consider strong or less wrong
than the others, which seems to be the consensus of the atheist in
attendance.

Now to test the honesty on our theistic brethren and in the spirit of
"do unto others, as you would have them do unto you", I ask all you
theist:

What would be your best argument "against" the existence of a god?

MemePilot
"Believing is seeing"



Death.

So far as any have witnessed there is no such thing as eternal life.
Seeing some being that can demonstrate immortality might be simply a
highly evolved being; but seeing an actual demonstratively immortal
would surely pique my interest into the possibility!

Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.

My best argument "against" the existence of a god is the complete lack
of any demonstrable immortality.


good answer, are you a theist or atheist?


Actually i just answered that to another person here. I hope you don't
mind, I'll just paste what i wrote to him:
As in a Creator of all Existence God? Atheist.
As in the possibility of a super intelligent being, or race of them,
that could come out of the Milky Way and kick our human asses God?
Agnostic.
As in the possibility of the bible god? Laughable, if not so cruel.
Atheist.
As in the possibility of a most high intelligence (with sufficient
benevolence worthy of all that intelligence)? Problematic but hopeful.
I'm willing to accept the possibility of a hierarchy of intelligence and
power somewhere in the universe (we humans could be too stupid as of yet
to be considered viable slaves), but I wouldn't call any of it
supernatural, just better equipped or higher evolved.
But as people think of god in a biblical or religious sense...No.
--
I'm also going to add this:
The universe, if the earth is any representation, is naturally
predatory. Maybe finding another extremely highly evolved race or being
might not be a great day after all! Everything living requires some form
of nourishment, even if just to replenish its own supporting resources.
Our value to another being could only be in reference first and foremost
to it's own survival. It could, for all practical purposes, be our
greatest nightmare.
.


User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 16 Oct 2006 10:48:34 PM
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:29:53 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:

Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.

It also immediately precludes change, because it limits the number of
beings possible. At some point the species stagnates. Death is
necessary for life.
Theistic arguments seldom look past the first move.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
- H. L. Mencken
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 17 Oct 2006 01:38:56 PM
Al Klein wrote:

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:29:53 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:


Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.


It also immediately precludes change, because it limits the number of
beings possible. At some point the species stagnates. Death is
necessary for life.

Theistic arguments seldom look past the first move.

I didn't follow. Please give more detail.
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 17 Oct 2006 07:30:01 PM
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:38:56 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:29:53 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:


Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.


It also immediately precludes change, because it limits the number of
beings possible. At some point the species stagnates. Death is
necessary for life.

Theistic arguments seldom look past the first move.


I didn't follow. Please give more detail.

The flood. Nice story. When you start peeling off the layers, you
find difficulties.
The Exodus. Same thing. It looks good on the surface, but the
logistics of keeping about 4 million people moving as a body?
Immortality. Nice idea, but the galaxy can support a certain maximum
number of beings that require X amount of energy each. (Asimov worked
out for this planet and it came to about 12 billion.) What happens
once the galaxy is filled?
It's the same as any engineering problem. Once marketing hands it off
to engineering, the details can kill the idea. As in "sure we can
make it but you can't possibly sell it for more than it costs to build
it".
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise
as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca the Younger
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: "AcesLucky"

Title: Re: Question to Atheists 18 Oct 2006 02:15:14 AM
Al Klein wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:38:56 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:


Al Klein wrote:

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:29:53 -0700, AcesLucky <acesLucky@netscape.net>
wrote:



Any life that can claim and demonstrate immortality suddenly makes room
for a consciousness worthy of the /possibility/ of a god, where none
existed with any seriousness before.


It also immediately precludes change, because it limits the number of
beings possible. At some point the species stagnates. Death is
necessary for life.

Theistic arguments seldom look past the first move.


I didn't follow. Please give more detail.


The flood. Nice story. When you start peeling off the layers, you
find difficulties.

The Exodus. Same thing. It looks good on the surface, but the
logistics of keeping about 4 million people moving as a body?

Immortality. Nice idea, but the galaxy can support a certain maximum
number of beings that require X amount of energy each. (Asimov worked
out for this planet and it came to about 12 billion.) What happens
once the galaxy is filled?

It's the same as any engineering problem. Once marketing hands it off
to engineering, the details can kill the idea. As in "sure we can
make it but you can't possibly sell it for more than it costs to build
it".

Got it.
Prey tell; doesn't that assume that all resources in existence are
ultimately finite?
What if the expansion of our big bang was merely an atom of another
universe? What if there were truly no limit to the size of existence?
(That the consumption of one form of energy was the potential of another.)
.







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