QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Bill M"
Date:	20 Jan 2007 10:53:59 AM
Object:	QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS

Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
.

User: "aversiveness"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	25 Jan 2007 04:30:50 PM

On Jan 25, 5:22 pm, "Jack" <cawo...@gmail.com> wrote:

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent -
I would.
Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

Are there any other possibilities?Hmm, since children cannot read, God does not want them to read. Since

we do not have wings, God does not want us to fly.

So you've ruled out (2)? :-)

Strive for something man!

Always good advice.
.

User: "Jack"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	27 Jan 2007 06:41:03 AM

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent -
I would.
Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

Are there any other possibilities?

Hmm, since children cannot read, God does not want them to read. Since
we do not have wings, God does not want us to fly.

So you've ruled out (2)? :-)

Sure, God wants us to seek him. Knock and the door shal be opened. Any
other theory contradicts the Bible and my and other's experience but I
do see how you guys get to the conclusion that God is hiding.
.

User: "aversiveness"
Title: AQOTM noination: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	23 Jan 2007 05:46:57 PM

On Jan 21, 10:10 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Some questions for theists.

I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.Good point Bill is obsessed with God.

Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.

-------nominated portion-------

1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see
or hear from their God?

They don't realise that they have already.

Which imeadiately suggests the "argument from non belief"

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent -
I would.
Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

Are there any other possibilities?

-------------end nominated portion--------
seconds?

2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?

People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.Solid answer.

And IF god exists then it is his will that all these people have the
abillity and the desire to believe in false gods - which contradicts a
core belief of christianity.

3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?

War is a creation of Man. Disease is the means the majority of beings
on the planet have to deal with the newcommers. There is no reason to
assume the Creator has been tinkering with the world all along. He may
have other projects to tend to.Another solid answer.

Another good reason to be a non believer.

4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?

See #2. The "Devil", if you mean the Christian Lucifer, has the same
rights and abilities as we do -- he can make his own choices. God
permits it because we were all given this ability to make choices.And another reason not to believe in God.

(In the sense of worship, trust, venerate or honor)
"God exists but he is a manipulative and vindictive *****"
is as good a reason for disbelief as his non existence - in my humble
opinion.

5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???

Devils, if you mean Christian demons, made their choices too. They
have the same rights and abilities as we do -- they can choose to
mislead and punish God's creation.And another reason not to believe in God.

(In the sense of worship, trust, venerate or honor)

PadraicNice work.

Mark.

User: "elemtilas"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	21 Jan 2007 10:36:37 PM

Richo wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Some questions for theists.

I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.

Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.

Asatru?

1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?

They don't realise that they have already.

Which imeadiately suggests the "argument from non belief"

Not really. I don't assume either that God "wants us to know" him or
that he "wishes to be hidden". It is enough for me to look around at
the wonder of the universe and know that there is someone behind it
all.
Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

EIther is possible.

Are there any other possibilities?

It could be that he is busy elsewhere and not aware that there are
people here looking for him.
It could be that he has created and is abstaining from further direct
contact until the present reality runs its course.
It could be he exists, is both omniscient and omnipotent, but is
unaware of us and our universe. Our universe could be a product of a
natural process (bodily or mental or spiritual or whatever) that he is
not aware of.
This is good fodder for conjecture, as we do not now and have no
reasonable expectation to know the answer at this time.

2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?

People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.

Solid answer.
And IF god exists then it is his will that all these people have the
abillity and the desire to believe in false gods - which contradicts a
core belief of christianity.

Not at all. The core belief of Christianity here, of course, is that of
free will. This is the freedom to make choices, in this case, about
what to believe in. The problem is not with God "permitting" people to
"be deceived by false Gods", but rather with the Xian assumption that
the Gods of other religions are "false" to begin with and their own
version of God is the only right one.

3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?

Another solid answer.
Another good reason to be a non believer.

Not really. It simply admits to the realities of this present universe.
The facts are: this world seems at times brutal (though I'm sure a rock
doesn't really care what the temperature or oxgen levels are -- they
get along pretty well in many climates that would kill us); DNA is
prone to defective replication; war sucks; and disease just adds insult
to injury.
What matters is how we rise above the seeming drear that we've been
given.

4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?

And another reason not to believe in God.
(In the sense of worship, trust, venerate or honor)
"God exists but he is a manipulative and vindictive *****"
is as good a reason for disbelief as his non existence - in my humble
opinion.

I would note that saying that God granted free will is not the same as
saying that God is a manipulative and vindictive *****. The
manipulation and vindictivity are on us. We choose to be bad or good to
our neighbours. We make the choice to be assholes or decent folks.

5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???

Devils, if you mean Christian demons, made their choices too. They
have the same rights and abilities as we do -- they can choose to
mislead and punish God's creation.

And another reason not to believe in God.
(In the sense of worship, trust, venerate or honor)

Same.

Nice work.

Padraic

Mark.

User: "Richo"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	21 Jan 2007 11:30:49 PM

elemtilas wrote:

Richo wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Some questions for theists.

I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.

Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.

Asatru?

gazunteit!
No - I just love the stories - I don't actually believe them.
I am a godless heretic.
Some say I am an atheist - some say I am not.
I am not into labels in a big way.

1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?

They don't realise that they have already.

Which imeadiately suggests the "argument from non belief"

Not really. I don't assume either that God "wants us to know" him or
that he "wishes to be hidden".

Then that is a different being to God.
What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"
It is enough for me to look around at

the wonder of the universe and know that there is someone behind it
all.

Ah! A conspiracy theorist!
8-)
The idea that all this was deliberate creeps me out severely.

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...
Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...
Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

EIther is possible.

Are there any other possibilities?

It could be that he is busy elsewhere and not aware that there are
people here looking for him.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be that he has created and is abstaining from further direct
contact until the present reality runs its course.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be he exists, is both omniscient and omnipotent, but is
unaware of us and our universe.

No that's not a logical possibility.
Hint - meaning of omniscient.

This is good fodder for conjecture, as we do not now and have no
reasonable expectation to know the answer at this time.

Not knowing is a very good reason to remain godless.

2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?

People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.

Solid answer.
And IF god exists then it is his will that all these people have the
abillity and the desire to believe in false gods - which contradicts a
core belief of christianity.

Not at all. The core belief of Christianity here, of course, is that of
free will.
This is the freedom to make choices, in this case, about
what to believe in.

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.
IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.
I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

The problem is not with God "permitting" people to
"be deceived by false Gods", but rather with the Xian assumption that
the Gods of other religions are "false" to begin with and their own
version of God is the only right one.

If God exists THEN the other gods are false.
IF other gods are NOT false THEN God doesnt exist.

3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?

Another solid answer.
Another good reason to be a non believer.

Not really.

Speak for yourself!

It simply admits to the realities of this present universe.
The facts are: this world seems at times brutal (though I'm sure a rock
doesn't really care what the temperature or oxgen levels are -- they
get along pretty well in many climates that would kill us); DNA is
prone to defective replication; war sucks; and disease just adds insult
to injury.

What matters is how we rise above the seeming drear that we've been
given.

Sure.
So what?

4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?

Sure - i dont believe God (Or Thor or elves or leprachauns or...) is
responsible for evil or good.
I am a godless unbelieving heretic.
Cheers, Mark.
.

User: "Jack"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	25 Jan 2007 04:33:05 PM

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.
I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

So you are someone who *won't* look for A saying that A is hiding and
that A should present itself or else please not exist?
Do you realize that God does not need you nor is God a stone or other
mineral which can be found by someone and brought to you?
.

User: "Padraic Brown"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	22 Jan 2007 10:02:48 AM

On 21 Jan 2007 21:30:49 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

elemtilas wrote:

Richo wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Some questions for theists.

I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.

Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.

Asatru?

gazunteit!
No - I just love the stories - I don't actually believe them.

Fair enough.

I am a godless heretic.

How can you be a "godless heretic"? I wasn't aware that Atheism could
even have heresies, or do you disbelieve the wrong set of gods? ;)

Some say I am an atheist - some say I am not.
I am not into labels in a big way.

1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?

They don't realise that they have already.

Which imeadiately suggests the "argument from non belief"

Not really. I don't assume either that God "wants us to know" him or
that he "wishes to be hidden".

Then that is a different being to God.

Not at all. It's a matter of definition. If you assume "God" is what
most Christians say, then your questions and discussion will be
coloured by that assumption.

What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"

The problem with this is that Thor has a pretty well known and set
iconography. Without the hammer, it ain't Thor. "God" is a much
different concept. A Hindu a Moslem a Jew and a Christian can all talk
about "God", meaning more or less the same thing, but understood in
considerably different ways.
My own conceptualisation is not 100% congruous with the usual
Christian concept.

It is enough for me to look around at

the wonder of the universe and know that there is someone behind it
all.

Ah! A conspiracy theorist!
8-)
The idea that all this was deliberate creeps me out severely.

OK. Doesn't creep me out at all.

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...

Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...

Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Once again, your statements are coloured by a particular definition of
"God".

Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

EIther is possible.

Are there any other possibilities?

It could be that he is busy elsewhere and not aware that there are
people here looking for him.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be that he has created and is abstaining from further direct
contact until the present reality runs its course.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be he exists, is both omniscient and omnipotent, but is
unaware of us and our universe.

No that's not a logical possibility.
Hint - meaning of omniscient.

This is good fodder for conjecture, as we do not now and have no
reasonable expectation to know the answer at this time.

Not knowing is a very good reason to remain godless.

2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?

People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.

Solid answer.
And IF god exists then it is his will that all these people have the
abillity and the desire to believe in false gods - which contradicts a
core belief of christianity.

Not at all. The core belief of Christianity here, of course, is that of
free will.
This is the freedom to make choices, in this case, about
what to believe in.

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.

Suit yourself!

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.

I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

Fair enough. I remain free to assert that you are free to choose.

If God exists THEN the other gods are false.

IF other gods are NOT false THEN God doesnt exist.

3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?

Another solid answer.
Another good reason to be a non believer.

Not really.

Speak for yourself!

I will, thank you very much. I certainly can not speak for you!

Sure.
So what?

4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?

Sure - i dont believe God (Or Thor or elves or leprachauns or...) is
responsible for evil or good.
I am a godless unbelieving heretic.

Then bully for you!
Cheers,
Padraic

Cheers, Mark.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Richo"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	22 Jan 2007 05:32:55 PM

Padraic Brown wrote:

On 21 Jan 2007 21:30:49 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

elemtilas wrote:

Richo wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

Some questions for theists.

I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.

Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.

Asatru?

gazunteit!
No - I just love the stories - I don't actually believe them.

Fair enough.

I am a godless heretic.

How can you be a "godless heretic"? I wasn't aware that Atheism could
even have heresies, or do you disbelieve the wrong set of gods? ;)

I am equally perplexed by it.
I am confronted with it often - usually when an atheist tells me I am
not an atheist becasuse I believe in the existence of The Emperor
Augustus.
The atheists tell me that the emperor Augustus was not a god - but I
know that he was just as much a God as God or Jupiter or Mars.
So I disbelieve in gods whether they exist or not, while atheists are
only suppossed to disbelieve in the non existent ones.
That's the chief thing that gets me into trouble - but there have been
others.

Some say I am an atheist - some say I am not.
I am not into labels in a big way.

1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?

They don't realise that they have already.

Which imeadiately suggests the "argument from non belief"

Not really. I don't assume either that God "wants us to know" him or
that he "wishes to be hidden".

Then that is a different being to God.

Not at all. It's a matter of definition. If you assume "God" is what
most Christians say, then your questions and discussion will be
coloured by that assumption.

Sure.
Likewise the we assume "Thor" is the being descibed by the people who
believed in it - OR we could call a small china teapot "Thor" and then
we can use Thor to make a noice cup of tea.

What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"

The problem with this is that Thor has a pretty well known and set
iconography.

Same with God.

Without the hammer, it ain't Thor. "God" is a much
different concept. A Hindu a Moslem a Jew and a Christian can all talk
about "God", meaning more or less the same thing, but understood in
considerably different ways.

Sure there are variations - all interesting in their own way - all
inconsequential in another sense.

My own conceptualisation is not 100% congruous with the usual
Christian concept.

That's fine - I call this the "question of hats".
People argue (often to the death - see history of the world for
examples.) over the equivalent of whether or not God wears a hat and if
he does what color it is.
I dont care what color Gods hat is.
The thing that makes God worthy of the name God is not his hat - its
things like "creator of the universe", "all powerfull" "all seeing".
The stories of Thor don't mention whether or not he had a mole on his
left shoulder - so as far as I am concerned "Thor" with a mole on his
left shoulder is still Thor. The mole question is a question of hats.

It is enough for me to look around at

the wonder of the universe and know that there is someone behind it
all.

Ah! A conspiracy theorist!
8-)
The idea that all this was deliberate creeps me out severely.

OK. Doesn't creep me out at all.

I believe you - I don't understand or share your feelings - but I
believe you.
8-)

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...

Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...

Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Once again, your statements are coloured by a particular definition of
"God".

Yes.
When I speak of dogs my statements are colored by a particular
definition of dog - likewise for teapots etc.
This is a fundamental property of language and not my fault.

Since i dont know him then either:
(1) He doesnt exist
Or
(2) He doesnt want me to know him.

EIther is possible.

Are there any other possibilities?

It could be that he is busy elsewhere and not aware that there are
people here looking for him.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be that he has created and is abstaining from further direct
contact until the present reality runs its course.

Then disbelief would be the way to go.

It could be he exists, is both omniscient and omnipotent, but is
unaware of us and our universe.

No that's not a logical possibility.
Hint - meaning of omniscient.

This is good fodder for conjecture, as we do not now and have no
reasonable expectation to know the answer at this time.

Not knowing is a very good reason to remain godless.

2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?

People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.

Solid answer.
And IF god exists then it is his will that all these people have the
abillity and the desire to believe in false gods - which contradicts a
core belief of christianity.

Not at all. The core belief of Christianity here, of course, is that of
free will.
This is the freedom to make choices, in this case, about
what to believe in.

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.

Suit yourself!

Yeah - like I have a choice!

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.

I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

Fair enough. I remain free to assert that you are free to choose.

You are free to be wrong!
8-)
You either "get it" or you don't.
You can lead a horse to the water...

If God exists THEN the other gods are false.

IF other gods are NOT false THEN God doesnt exist.

3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?

Another solid answer.
Another good reason to be a non believer.

Not really.

Speak for yourself!

I will, thank you very much. I certainly can not speak for you!

Good choice!

Sure.
So what?

4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?

Sure - i dont believe God (Or Thor or elves or leprachauns or...) is
responsible for evil or good.
I am a godless unbelieving heretic.

Then bully for you!

8-)
Cheers!
Mark.
.

User: "Padraic Brown"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	22 Jan 2007 08:08:07 PM

On 22 Jan 2007 15:32:55 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

Not at all. It's a matter of definition. If you assume "God" is what
most Christians say, then your questions and discussion will be
coloured by that assumption.

Sure.
Likewise the we assume "Thor" is the being descibed by the people who
believed in it - OR we could call a small china teapot "Thor" and then
we can use Thor to make a noice cup of tea.

What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"

The problem with this is that Thor has a pretty well known and set
iconography.

Same with God.

Not really. Ask a Jew a Christian and a Hindu what "God" is like and
you'll get four or five different answers depending.

Sure there are variations - all interesting in their own way - all
inconsequential in another sense.

My own conceptualisation is not 100% congruous with the usual
Christian concept.

That's fine - I call this the "question of hats".
People argue (often to the death - see history of the world for
examples.) over the equivalent of whether or not God wears a hat and if
he does what color it is.
I dont care what color Gods hat is.
The thing that makes God worthy of the name God is not his hat - its
things like "creator of the universe", "all powerfull" "all seeing".

The stories of Thor don't mention whether or not he had a mole on his
left shoulder - so as far as I am concerned "Thor" with a mole on his
left shoulder is still Thor. The mole question is a question of hats.

Thor is a _specific_ god. There is little to confuse him with Loki or
Baldr. "God" is a name used by different people in different ways.
CLearly you and I have a differing understanding of what God is like.
(Obviously apart from the fact that you disbelieve in God.)

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...

Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...

Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Once again, your statements are coloured by a particular definition of
"God".

Yes.
When I speak of dogs my statements are colored by a particular
definition of dog - likewise for teapots etc.
This is a fundamental property of language and not my fault.

I'm not assigning blame. I'm just pointing out that our
conceptualisations differ.
[snip]

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.

Suit yourself!

Yeah - like I have a choice!

You do.

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.

I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

Fair enough. I remain free to assert that you are free to choose.

You are free to be wrong!
8-)

Indeed I am, as are we all.
Padraic

Mark.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Richo"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	22 Jan 2007 08:30:27 PM

Padraic Brown wrote:

On 22 Jan 2007 15:32:55 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

Not at all. It's a matter of definition. If you assume "God" is what
most Christians say, then your questions and discussion will be
coloured by that assumption.

Sure.
Likewise the we assume "Thor" is the being descibed by the people who
believed in it - OR we could call a small china teapot "Thor" and then
we can use Thor to make a noice cup of tea.

What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"

The problem with this is that Thor has a pretty well known and set
iconography.

Same with God.

Not really. Ask a Jew a Christian and a Hindu what "God" is like and
you'll get four or five different answers depending.

Yes - up to a point.
Details, thousands of tiny details.
All very important inside and betwixt various cults.
Not interesting in any larger sense - not interesting or significant to
your metaphysics or your ethics - for example.

Sure there are variations - all interesting in their own way - all
inconsequential in another sense.

My own conceptualisation is not 100% congruous with the usual
Christian concept.

That's fine - I call this the "question of hats".
People argue (often to the death - see history of the world for
examples.) over the equivalent of whether or not God wears a hat and if
he does what color it is.
I dont care what color Gods hat is.
The thing that makes God worthy of the name God is not his hat - its
things like "creator of the universe", "all powerfull" "all seeing".

The stories of Thor don't mention whether or not he had a mole on his
left shoulder - so as far as I am concerned "Thor" with a mole on his
left shoulder is still Thor. The mole question is a question of hats.

Thor is a _specific_ god.

God is a specific god.
(Or a set of variations on a specific god if you want to be VERY
pedantic.)

There is little to confuse him with Loki or
Baldr.

There is litle to confuse God with Loki or Balder.

"God" is a name used by different people in different ways.
CLearly you and I have a differing understanding of what God is like.
(Obviously apart from the fact that you disbelieve in God.)

Perhaps - I start with the dictionary - then look at the Catholic
Encyclopedia - read Karen Armstrong, talk to believers etc etc.
The concept of god is very broad and general. "God" (or Yahweh) is a
specific god - just as Thor is a specific god.
The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.
Put a hat on a duck and it's still a duck.

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...

Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...

Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Once again, your statements are coloured by a particular definition of
"God".

Yes.
When I speak of dogs my statements are colored by a particular
definition of dog - likewise for teapots etc.
This is a fundamental property of language and not my fault.

I'm not assigning blame. I'm just pointing out that our
conceptualisations differ.

Then we can't usefully comminicate (about this at least.).
Which is slightly sad - because you seem more inteligent and
potentially interesting than the average punter.
Oh well!

[snip]

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.

Suit yourself!

Yeah - like I have a choice!

You do.

I am sure you believe that sincerely - but its as unbelievable as
square circles or married bachelors to me.

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.

I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

Fair enough. I remain free to assert that you are free to choose.

You are free to be wrong!
8-)

Indeed I am, as are we all.

Padraic

Peace and good luck,
Mark.
.

User: "Padraic Brown"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	23 Jan 2007 09:05:46 PM

On 22 Jan 2007 18:30:27 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

Padraic Brown wrote:

On 22 Jan 2007 15:32:55 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

Not at all. It's a matter of definition. If you assume "God" is what
most Christians say, then your questions and discussion will be
coloured by that assumption.

Sure.
Likewise the we assume "Thor" is the being descibed by the people who
believed in it - OR we could call a small china teapot "Thor" and then
we can use Thor to make a noice cup of tea.

What you are saying is equivalent too:
"I believe in Thor but not the one with a magic hammer etc etc"

The problem with this is that Thor has a pretty well known and set
iconography.

Same with God.

Not really. Ask a Jew a Christian and a Hindu what "God" is like and
you'll get four or five different answers depending.

Yes - up to a point.
Details, thousands of tiny details.

Some of them not so tiny! Most of the people I've been conversing with
of late here (Atheists, namely) work with the assumption that "God" is
the God of normative orthodox Christianity.

All very important inside and betwixt various cults.
Not interesting in any larger sense - not interesting or significant to
your metaphysics or your ethics - for example.

Sure there are variations - all interesting in their own way - all
inconsequential in another sense.

My own conceptualisation is not 100% congruous with the usual
Christian concept.

That's fine - I call this the "question of hats".
People argue (often to the death - see history of the world for
examples.) over the equivalent of whether or not God wears a hat and if
he does what color it is.
I dont care what color Gods hat is.
The thing that makes God worthy of the name God is not his hat - its
things like "creator of the universe", "all powerfull" "all seeing".

The stories of Thor don't mention whether or not he had a mole on his
left shoulder - so as far as I am concerned "Thor" with a mole on his
left shoulder is still Thor. The mole question is a question of hats.

Thor is a _specific_ god.

God is a specific god.

Indeed. And so is God. And also God. And don't forget about God! Once
again, it depends on the individual who you're talking with's
conceptualisation. When a Hindu talks about God, he means something
specific but something understood quite differently from how the
Christian understands God.

(Or a set of variations on a specific god if you want to be VERY
pedantic.)

There is little to confuse him with Loki or
Baldr.

There is litle to confuse God with Loki or Balder.

"God" is a name used by different people in different ways.
CLearly you and I have a differing understanding of what God is like.
(Obviously apart from the fact that you disbelieve in God.)

Ah, indeed. Now you've named a specific god -- Yahweh. Though even
among Jews, there is much divergence of conceptualisation. This "God"
is quite different in many respects from the Christian version of God.

The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.

Agreed. Mind you, the "hats" as you term it are quite important to the
discussion. If you assume "God #2 with the tall spiky hat" and the
person you're talking with assumes "God #16 with the small rounded
cap", then, even though in one important sense you're talking about
the same essential idea, there is enough difference of mindset and
concept that miscommunication can be the result.

Put a hat on a duck and it's still a duck.

Everything else is faithful conjecture.

If God wanted me to "know" him - Then being Omniscient and omnipotent - I would.

Assuming that God is both omniscient and omnipotent. I don't assume
either.

Assuming Thor has a magic hammer and resides in Asgard...

Assuming a Bear is a large carniverous mammal...

Of course I can lift a house with one hand - if I assume that a "house"
is a small social insect.
Dicking about with labels is not philosophy.

Once again, your statements are coloured by a particular definition of
"God".

Yes.
When I speak of dogs my statements are colored by a particular
definition of dog - likewise for teapots etc.
This is a fundamental property of language and not my fault.

I'm not assigning blame. I'm just pointing out that our
conceptualisations differ.

Then we can't usefully comminicate (about this at least.).
Which is slightly sad - because you seem more inteligent and
potentially interesting than the average punter.
Oh well!

Oh well indeed.

[snip]

I can't believe in something I have never encountered.

Suit yourself!

Yeah - like I have a choice!

You do.

I am sure you believe that sincerely - but its as unbelievable as
square circles or married bachelors to me.

IF God decides to stop hiding THEN I will free to choose.

I reject the ASSERTION that I am currently free to choose.

Fair enough. I remain free to assert that you are free to choose.

You are free to be wrong!
8-)

Indeed I am, as are we all.

Padraic

Peace and good luck,
Mark.

Same to you,
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	25 Jan 2007 04:24:51 PM

"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:angdr25a2vlvtmbuqae4behamh8g77bjr8@4ax.com...

On 22 Jan 2007 18:30:27 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.

Those gods are all conjecture, i.e. atheists guessing what the gods of
Muslims, Jews and Christians are. Naturally it's all nonsense, for gods are
spiritual, therefore abstract concepts and atheist can only think in
concrete terms.
The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition, i.e.
the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to conscious
being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be served in spirit
etc. another abstract concept. See below how Christ explains His God to a
sceptical Philip.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	26 Jan 2007 08:39:08 PM

"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in
news:45b9eda7$0$24420$88260bb3@free.teranews.com:

Naturally it's all nonsense, for
gods are spiritual, therefore abstract concepts
and atheist can only think in concrete terms.

This is false teaching from the false Pastor Frank.
The true Pastor Frank is a regional Chief Executive Pastor of the DC branch
of the Broomleigh Group of Baptist Churches.
--
http://www.pastorfrank.broomleigh.com/
.

User: "Dubh Ghall"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	26 Jan 2007 11:05:36 AM

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:24:51 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:angdr25a2vlvtmbuqae4behamh8g77bjr8@4ax.com...

On 22 Jan 2007 18:30:27 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.

Those gods are all conjecture, i.e. atheists guessing what the gods of
Muslims, Jews and Christians are.

They are hypothetical, Frank, just pretend, imaginary, just like
yours: Did anyone claim otherwise?
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	26 Jan 2007 08:43:53 PM

Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in
news:n4dkr2lhoonc4rtemt21a87i3q60818psr@4ax.com:

They are hypothetical, Frank, just pretend, imaginary,
just like yours: Did anyone claim otherwise?

You would know the truth, and the truth would set you free, if only you
would worship the true Christian Jesus (i.e., pay your tithes at Bronze or
above level).
--
http://www.pastorfrank.broomleigh.com/
.

User: "Padraic Brown"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	26 Jan 2007 10:52:53 PM

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:24:51 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:angdr25a2vlvtmbuqae4behamh8g77bjr8@4ax.com...

On 22 Jan 2007 18:30:27 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.

Not entirely. They _do_ have a God. It's an unGod of disbelief. In my
opinion, a true Atheist just wouldn't care whether or not anyone
beleives in God or not -- such a person would shrug and brush off both
the annoying prosletysation of the Christians and their strange faith
AND the equally annoying bad behaviour and strange unfaith of the
Atheists. But the thing is, most atheists actively and positively
disbelieve in God, to the extent that they rather believe in a kind of
antiGod. They are so consumed with the zeal of their unfaith that they
can do little more than turn to insult and melodramatics when a
believer (i.e., an unbeliever in their estimation) disagrees with
them.
"Atheism", when broken down etymologically, means "without (a) god
system". Most atheists are more zealous and more concerned about
things like "faith" and "belief" than are most theists!

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition, i.e.
the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to conscious
being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be served in spirit
etc. another abstract concept.

It's all God. You can call it "I am" or "Yahweh" or "Ahura Mazda" for
all it really and truly matters. All of them are human constructs
designed to help us understand and comprehend a "force" or "being" far
beyond our comprehension.
Gods are like the ancient parable of the four blind men and the
oliphant. One thinks he's got a hold of a tree trunk, another a snake,
a third a great hill and a fourth a huge sabre. All of them can
comprehend some small portion of the beastie in some not-quite-right
way.
If you want to take the God Moses created, then you've got the tree
trunk. Someone else who wants to take the God Mohammed created has got
the sabre; another wants the God Jesus created, that's the hill. The
point being, every great teacher and visionary has got his
understanding of something so profound and beyond himself and he wants
to share this understanding with the world. This understanding gets
made into Gods. It's up to us whether we follow their visions or seek
our own or combine them.
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	28 Jan 2007 03:56:21 AM

"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7lllr2ddfbjssln0bv0ftgjkjflimb5vas@4ax.com...

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 06:24:51 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

"Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:angdr25a2vlvtmbuqae4behamh8g77bjr8@4ax.com...

On 22 Jan 2007 18:30:27 -0800, "Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au>
wrote:

The "God" of the jews is similar but different to the God of Christians
and the Allah of Muslims- they wear different hats.
They are still recognizably the same basic idea.

Not entirely. They _do_ have a God.

I would call it a devil.

It's an unGod of disbelief. In my
opinion, a true Atheist just wouldn't care whether or not anyone
beleives in God or not -- such a person would shrug and brush off both
the annoying prosletysation of the Christians and their strange faith
AND the equally annoying bad behaviour and strange unfaith of the
Atheists. But the thing is, most atheists actively and positively
disbelieve in God, to the extent that they rather believe in a kind of
antiGod.

You got that right. That is why most atheists here are actually
anti-theists. True functional atheists are our school graduates who among so
many other words, have no idea about the meaning of the word "god" or
theist, or atheist for that matter. They would have no opinion on the
subject.

They are so consumed with the zeal of their unfaith that they
can do little more than turn to insult and melodramatics when a
believer (i.e., an unbeliever in their estimation) disagrees with
them.

The problem with atheism is, that their entire philosophy of live is
contained in these few words: There ain't no god(s). How many ways can one
say this? Most atheists run out of words in a jiffy and need to resort to
personal attacks and screeching flames, ...for lack of anything else to say.

"Atheism", when broken down etymologically, means "without (a) god
system". Most atheists are more zealous and more concerned about
things like "faith" and "belief" than are most theists!

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition,
i.e.
the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to
conscious
being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be served in
spirit
etc. another abstract concept.

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no other.

Gods are like the ancient parable of the four blind men and the
oliphant. One thinks he's got a hold of a tree trunk, another a snake,
a third a great hill and a fourth a huge sabre. All of them can
comprehend some small portion of the beastie in some not-quite-right
way.
If you want to take the God Moses created, then you've got the tree
trunk. Someone else who wants to take the God Mohammed created has got
the sabre; another wants the God Jesus created, that's the hill. The
point being, every great teacher and visionary has got his
understanding of something so profound and beyond himself and he wants
to share this understanding with the world. This understanding gets
made into Gods. It's up to us whether we follow their visions or seek
our own or combine them.
Padraic

That too is a well-worn clich�, that God is something above and beyond
and impossible to comprehend. I am a Christian and prefer Christ's
explanation, which makes God immediate, knowable and visible. See below
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Padraic Brown"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	31 Jan 2007 12:43:34 PM

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:56:21 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no other.

That too is a well-worn clich�, that God is something above and beyond
and impossible to comprehend.

Well worn perhaps but quite true none the less. Unless we each have
directly experienced God, we have little recourse but to the visions
of others who've seen something of God and have tried to describe the
experience. Usually what happens is we learn about God growing up
(from parents, from the Bible, from school and society) and take that
faith as the full explanation and definition of God. You say that, for
Christians at least, the "only God to consider" is the god of Moses.
You're relegating all Christians to the "trunk" of the oliphant,
rather than the fullest possible exploration and understanding of God.

I am a Christian and prefer Christ's
explanation, which makes God immediate, knowable and visible. See below

Indeed. We have Jesus's experience of God and his interpretation of
that experience. You've got the great "hill" of the oliphant's back.
Still, no one has the whole oliphant.
Padraic

Pastor Frank

"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE:
Jesus in Jn:4:24: "GOD IS A SPIRIT, and they that worship him must
worship him in spirit and in truth."
Jesus in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND
HAVE SEEN HIM."
Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER;
and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am
in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak
not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS."
Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one.
Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes
in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees
Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever
believes in me should not abide in darkness."
Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when
the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of
God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo
there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU."
1Jn:4:8: He that loveth not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE.
1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Acts:17:28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most
secret thoughts.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Dubh Ghall"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	31 Jan 2007 05:34:04 PM

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:43:34 -0500, Padraic Brown
<elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote:

Or lied about it in order to gain some sort of mystic prestige.
.

User: "Scott Richter"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	28 Jan 2007 08:06:21 PM

Pastor Frank <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition,
i.e. the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to
conscious being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be
served in spirit etc. another abstract concept.

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no other.

Aw, guys... What about Zeus? Or Apollo? Poseidon, maybe? Not to mention,
of course, Mohammed? Or how about our newest god, Tom Cruise?
Don't these gods deserve your worship and devotion? Shouldn't you
worship all if you're going to worship one? Or are you possibly an
atheist with respect to those other gods?
.

User: "Reuben Hick"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	28 Jan 2007 08:21:24 PM

"Scott Richter" <scottrichter422@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1hsnwby.rzyhim6t6ch3N%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...

Pastor Frank <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition,
i.e. the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to
conscious being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be
served in spirit etc. another abstract concept.

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no
other.

Aw, guys... What about Zeus? Or Apollo? Poseidon, maybe? Not to mention,
of course, Mohammed? Or how about our newest god, Tom Cruise?

Don't these gods deserve your worship and devotion? Shouldn't you
worship all if you're going to worship one? Or are you possibly an
atheist with respect to those other gods?

Lets see, the Roman and Greek gods seem to have only local exposure and
appreciation, Mohammed wasn't to be worshipped for he was only a prophet for
Allah, and Tom Cruise.... has he made any messianic claims?
As for all of those you named, how many have given evidence of Diety such as
fulfilled prophecy?
.

User: "thomas p."
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	28 Jan 2007 11:13:53 PM

On Jan 29, 3:21 am, "Reuben Hick" <outerdarkn...@warmoose.com> wrote:

"Scott Richter" <scottrichter...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1hsnwby.rzyhim6t6ch3N%scottrichter422@yahoo.com...

Pastor Frank <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition,
i.e. the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to
conscious being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be
served in spirit etc. another abstract concept.

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no
other.

Aw, guys... What about Zeus? Or Apollo? Poseidon, maybe? Not to mention,
of course, Mohammed? Or how about our newest god, Tom Cruise?

Don't these gods deserve your worship and devotion? Shouldn't you
worship all if you're going to worship one? Or are you possibly an
atheist with respect to those other gods?

Lets see, the Roman and Greek gods seem to have only local exposure and
appreciation,

The Roman and Greek cultures were hardly local, but that is
irrelevant; unless you are arguing that truth is established by a
vote.

Mohammed wasn't to be worshipped for he was only a prophet for
Allah,

So?
and Tom Cruise.... has he made any messianic claims?
I don't know, but we do have evidence that he exists unlike the
Christian deity.

As for all of those you named, how many have given evidence of Diety such as
fulfilled prophecy?-

None, including the Christian candidate.
.

User: "Scott Richter"
Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS	28 Jan 2007 10:58:34 PM

Reuben Hick <outerdarkness@warmoose.com> wrote:

The only God worth considering is the God of scriptural definition,
i.e. the God of Moses being the great I AM, an abstract concept akin to
conscious being, and the God of Christ being 'a Spirit' which must be
served in spirit etc. another abstract concept.

I should have specified that the only God to consider for
Judeo-Christians, is the God of Moses and the God of Christ, and no
other.

Aw, guys... What about Zeus? Or Apollo? Poseidon, maybe? Not to mention,
of course, Mohammed? Or how about our newest god, Tom Cruise?

Don't these gods deserve your worship and devotion? Shouldn't you
worship all if you're going to worship one? Or are you possibly an
atheist with respect to those other gods?

Lets see, the Roman and Greek gods seem to have only local exposure and
appreciation,

So? What's "local" when you're a god?

Mohammed wasn't to be worshipped for he was only a prophet for Allah,

Sorry, I