| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2007 10:53:59 AM |
| Object: |
QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
24 Jan 2007 05:19:12 PM |
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On Jan 24, 5:05 pm, "aversiveness" <aversiven...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 22, 6:32 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
On 21 Jan 2007 21:30:49 -0800, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au>
wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
Richo wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Some questions for theists.
I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.
Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.
Asatru?
gazunteit!
No - I just love the stories - I don't actually believe them.
Fair enough.
I am a godless heretic.
How can you be a "godless heretic"? I wasn't aware that Atheism could
even have heresies, or do you disbelieve the wrong set of gods? ;)I am equally perplexed by it.
I am confronted with it often - usually when an atheist tells me I am
not an atheist becasuse I believe in the existence of The Emperor
Augustus.
The atheists tell me that the emperor Augustus was not a god - but I
know that he was just as much a God as God or Jupiter or Mars.
So I disbelieve in gods whether they exist or not, while atheists are
only suppossed to disbelieve in the non existent ones.
That's the chief thing that gets me into trouble - but there have been
others.
Hmm... I'm not sure what atheists are telling you such confusing
things.
I dont think naming them would help - it would just start the same old
fights again.
I have been reading/posting to alt.atheism since 1995 and have had the
arguments many times and there is never any progress - so I am very
bored with the whole deal.
Do you remember Dr Sinister and the wars that raged around the
definition of atheist (particulary "weak" variety) ?
You definitely meet my definition of an atheist.
And I definitely fail others - so will I just remain godless.
You are not
a theist.
True.
But do atheist and Theist form a true exhaustive dichotomy?
Some say yes, some say no.
I have decided "I dont care".
(although I suspect it is NOT a true dichotomy - that there are humans
that are neither.)
theism - a belief in god(s).
theist - someone who has the characteristic of theism (a belief in
god(s)).
atheism - lack of theism -> lack of a belief in god(s)
atheist - someone who has the characteristic of atheism
Yeah heard all that before -
but what are we meaning by "belief"? what are we meaning by "gods"?
Different people mean different things by these and so whether or not
you are an atheist depends on who is speaking and how they are
interpreting words this particular day.
I am happy that I am consistent in my use.
Others can call me whatever they like - I dont care.
The above is the default, or 'implicit' definition of atheism. It is
compatible with agnosticism (lack of knowledge of the existence of
god(s)). The 'strong' atheist position goes further and adds the
assertion of non-existence, but that is incompatible with agnosticism,
obviously.
Yes I know all of this backwards.
It doesnt stop the problems.
Human belief is just too "fuzzy" and messy to be divided up so neatly.
I am happy to take the atheist and theist labels as "first
approximations".
I always used to call myself atheist (from about age of 10 years old) -
but now I prefer godless.
Mark.
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| User: "aversiveness" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
24 Jan 2007 11:26:31 PM |
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On Jan 24, 6:19 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Jan 24, 5:05 pm, "aversiveness" <aversiven...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 22, 6:32 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
On 21 Jan 2007 21:30:49 -0800, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au>
wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
Richo wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <w...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Some questions for theists.
I'll assume you mean "Christians", since not all theists hold to the
underlying assumptions you make here.
Good point Bill is obsessed with God.
Me? I am into Odin and Thor myself.
Asatru?
gazunteit!
No - I just love the stories - I don't actually believe them.
Fair enough.
I am a godless heretic.
How can you be a "godless heretic"? I wasn't aware that Atheism could
even have heresies, or do you disbelieve the wrong set of gods? ;)I am equally perplexed by it.
I am confronted with it often - usually when an atheist tells me I am
not an atheist becasuse I believe in the existence of The Emperor
Augustus.
The atheists tell me that the emperor Augustus was not a god - but I
know that he was just as much a God as God or Jupiter or Mars.
So I disbelieve in gods whether they exist or not, while atheists are
only suppossed to disbelieve in the non existent ones.
That's the chief thing that gets me into trouble - but there have been
others.
Hmm... I'm not sure what atheists are telling you such confusing
things.I dont think naming them would help - it would just start the same old
fights again.
I have been reading/posting to alt.atheism since 1995 and have had the
arguments many times and there is never any progress - so I am very
bored with the whole deal.
Do you remember Dr Sinister and the wars that raged around the
definition of atheist (particulary "weak" variety) ?
You definitely meet my definition of an atheist.And I definitely fail others - so will I just remain godless.
You are not
a theist.True.
But do atheist and Theist form a true exhaustive dichotomy?
Some say yes, some say no.
I say yes, but I agree that others say no.
I have decided "I dont care".
(although I suspect it is NOT a true dichotomy - that there are humans
that are neither.)
theism - a belief in god(s).
theist - someone who has the characteristic of theism (a belief in
god(s)).
atheism - lack of theism -> lack of a belief in god(s)
atheist - someone who has the characteristic of atheismYeah heard all that before -
but what are we meaning by "belief"? what are we meaning by "gods"?
Different people mean different things by these and so whether or not
you are an atheist depends on who is speaking and how they are
interpreting words this particular day.
I am happy that I am consistent in my use.
Others can call me whatever they like - I dont care.
The above is the default, or 'implicit' definition of atheism. It is
compatible with agnosticism (lack of knowledge of the existence of
god(s)). The 'strong' atheist position goes further and adds the
assertion of non-existence, but that is incompatible with agnosticism,
obviously.Yes I know all of this backwards.
It doesnt stop the problems.
Human belief is just too "fuzzy" and messy to be divided up so neatly.
I am happy to take the atheist and theist labels as "first
approximations".
I always used to call myself atheist (from about age of 10 years old) -
but now I prefer godless.
That's cool. I totally grok where you are coming from. Where you are
going is, of course, your own business!
.
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 02:52:03 PM |
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Padraic Brown wrote:
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.
But if we dont conform to expectations, we run the risk of eternity in
hellfire.
Or (historicially) being subjugated, killed or tortored under orders
from an infallable pope.
Or (currently) having faith-based laws thrust upon us in an attempt to
compless us to abide by faith based dcotorine, thereby removng any free
will God[TM] gave us.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
War is a creation of Man.
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
Note that these 'other men' were by definition non-beleivers, so by
making war on them and killing them your God[TM] complesses them into a
firey pit for trying to defend their families, with no redemption.
Nice loving God[TM].
There is no reason to
assume the Creator has been tinkering with the world all along.
There is also no evidence. Tinkering would upset commonly understood
scientific principles and as they are all explainable there is no
evidence of any tinkering. (Note that the arguement for 'miricales'
fails because (convienetly) none have been perfomred uner testable
conditions and all rely on heresay.)
Accept that your God[TM] is a misanthrope (and the irony of me saying
that is not overlooked!)
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| User: "elemtilas" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 10:20:10 PM |
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misanthropic_curmudgeon wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
People devise their own gods. We have the ability to do as we please.
But if we dont conform to expectations, we run the risk of eternity in
hellfire.
Or (historicially) being subjugated, killed or tortored under orders
from an infallable pope.
Power corrupts. Religion has certainly been misused in the name of
wielding power over the masses.
Or (currently) having faith-based laws thrust upon us in an attempt to
compless us to abide by faith based dcotorine, thereby removng any free
will God[TM] gave us.
Same.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
War is a creation of Man.
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did. War is the creation of Man; and so are the "commands" of
God that incite people to make war. People don't need much excuse to be
violent with those they hate. A convenient command (undoubtedly
concocted by politically motivated clergy) from God just provides yet
another excuse to sharpen up the plowshares.
Note that these 'other men' were by definition non-beleivers, so by
making war on them and killing them your God[TM] complesses them into a
firey pit for trying to defend their families, with no redemption.
Nice loving God[TM].
Has nothing to do with God at all. Has everything to do with people who
don't know how to behave any better than savages. Same is going on
today. Idiot Islamicists say that the US must be destroyed on God's
command. Load of rubbish.
There is no reason to
assume the Creator has been tinkering with the world all along.
There is also no evidence.
I find that the universe itself is reasonable evidence.
Tinkering would upset commonly understood
scientific principles and as they are all explainable there is no
evidence of any tinkering.
Agreed.
(Note that the arguement for 'miricales'
fails because (convienetly) none have been perfomred uner testable
conditions and all rely on heresay.)
Also agreed. At least for miracles of the more spectacular sort. I
think chemistry and biology are chock full of miracles.
Accept that your God[TM] is a misanthrope (and the irony of me saying
that is not overlooked!)
No need. The only misanthropes here are people. I posit that God
exists, but it is people that are the cause of our troubles. If you
posit that God doesn't exist, you're welcome to, but it's still people
that are the cause of all our troubles!
Padraic
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 03:02:14 PM |
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elemtilas wrote:
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did.
You cannot be serious?!?!? Read your Bible[TM]!! Just off the top of
my head there was:
- Exodus:32:27-28
- 1Sam15:2-3
- 1Sam25:19
- Lev26:7-8
- Num25:16-17
- Num33:50-52
- Josuha10:19
- Judges20:18,21, 23-25
- Judges20:38-41
- Obadiah1:8-9
War is the creation of Man; and so are the "commands" of
God that incite people to make war.
Read those verse above: they are explicit - God[TM] commanded men to
slaughter other men.
Note that these 'other men' were by definition non-beleivers, so by
making war on them and killing them your God[TM] complesses them into a
firey pit for trying to defend their families, with no redemption.
Nice loving God[TM].
Has nothing to do with God at all.
You really need to read your Bible[TM] God[TM] demands compulsion, and
will slaughter those who dont even seek him. See Amos5:3-4.
Tinkering would upset commonly understood
scientific principles and as they are all explainable there is no
evidence of any tinkering.
Agreed.
(Note that the arguement for 'miricales'
fails because (convienetly) none have been perfomred uner testable
conditions and all rely on heresay.)
Also agreed. At least for miracles of the more spectacular sort. I
think chemistry and biology are chock full of miracles.
Given that it is all explainable, then God[TM] has no current input:
for a devine omnipotent being he must be bored. Maybe that is why he
demands sacrifices (and do I really have to provide references for you
to look up on this one too?!)
Accept that your God[TM] is a misanthrope (and the irony of me saying
that is not overlooked!)
No need. The only misanthropes here are people. I posit that God
exists, but it is people that are the cause of our troubles. If you
posit that God doesn't exist, you're welcome to, but it's still people
that are the cause of all our troubles!
People who beleive in pixies and the lie are the cause of much of the
trouble in this world. Look at virtually any world conflict and behind
it you will see an attempt by gog-bothers of some description trying to
impose thier will on others.
It is not accident that there is a strong correlation between a place
being a *****-hole and it being religious: the more religuious the more
econmicially depressed.
The sooner people grasp there is not biblical God[TM] the better the
world will be.
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 08:08:07 PM |
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On 22 Jan 2007 13:02:14 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
elemtilas wrote:
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did.
You cannot be serious?!?!? Read your Bible[TM]!! Just off the top of
my head there was:
- Exodus:32:27-28
- 1Sam15:2-3
- 1Sam25:19
- Lev26:7-8
- Num25:16-17
- Num33:50-52
- Josuha10:19
- Judges20:18,21, 23-25
- Judges20:38-41
- Obadiah1:8-9
And you believe all that is the "inerrant" word of God?
[snip]
Given that it is all explainable, then God[TM] has no current input:
for a devine omnipotent being he must be bored. Maybe that is why he
demands sacrifices (and do I really have to provide references for you
to look up on this one too?!)
Only if you assume that the Bible is 100% and literally the "word" of
God. I don't think it is. It was written by people.
Accept that your God[TM] is a misanthrope (and the irony of me saying
that is not overlooked!)
No need. The only misanthropes here are people. I posit that God
exists, but it is people that are the cause of our troubles. If you
posit that God doesn't exist, you're welcome to, but it's still people
that are the cause of all our troubles!
People who beleive in pixies and the lie are the cause of much of the
trouble in this world.
What people beleive in is really of little import as far as "troubles
in this world" are concerned.
Look at virtually any world conflict and behind
it you will see an attempt by gog-bothers of some description trying to
impose thier will on others.
They either have power and wish to impose it or else they want to have
power and will do what they can to get it. You see, religion is not at
the root, but is being misused.
[snip]
The sooner people grasp there is not biblical God[TM] the better the
world will be.
A nice bit of propaganda, but those places where either God has been
removed or Atheism has been enforced, it has proven to be just as
susceptible to seizure and misuse by those in POWER as have religion
and God. (Ex. USSR)
You're barking up the wrong tree. The problem is not religions or
people's belief in God. The problem is the abuse of power by those in
authority. That's the ultimate cause of war -- and has a great hand
in perpetuating poverty and other social ills as well.
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "misanthropic_curmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 02:31:02 PM |
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Padraic Brown wrote:
[snip]
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did.
You cannot be serious?!?!? Read your Bible[TM]!! Just off the top of
my head there was:
- Exodus:32:27-28
- 1Sam15:2-3
- 1Sam25:19
- Lev26:7-8
- Num25:16-17
- Num33:50-52
- Josuha10:19
- Judges20:18,21, 23-25
- Judges20:38-41
- Obadiah1:8-9
And you believe all that is the "inerrant" word of God?
Is the Bible[TM] without error, or has it errors?
Only if you assume that the Bible is 100% and literally the "word" of
God. I don't think it is. It was written by people.
Which parts are erroneous? How do you decide - by praying to a diety
described in the partly-erroneous texts?
People who beleive in pixies and the lie are the cause of much of the
trouble in this world.
What people beleive in is really of little import as far as "troubles
in this world" are concerned.
Not when those beliefs are the justifictaion and rationale for their
intervention!!
Look at virtually any world conflict and behind
it you will see an attempt by gog-bothers of some description trying to
impose thier will on others.
They either have power and wish to impose it or else they want to have
power and will do what they can to get it. You see, religion is not at
the root, but is being misused.
You misunderstand the driving force behind the colonoisation and
settlement by hordes of missionaries.
The sooner people grasp there is not biblical God[TM] the better the
world will be.
A nice bit of propaganda, but those places where either God has been
removed or Atheism has been enforced,
One cant enforce athiesim: it is (a natural default and) the result of
a lot of 'soul'-searching. Rejecting years of religious indoctronation
(and realising your family is wrong) is not an easy thing for many to
do.
Note also that enforcement is the domain of the religious. Selective
use of soviet Russia as an example of athiesism is as invalid as
holding up David Koresh to exemplify Christains.
You're barking up the wrong tree. The problem is not religions or
people's belief in God. The problem is the abuse of power by those in
authority.
Whose values are defined by their 'Christain' faith. And such a faith
condones ignorance. And the ignorant are easily led.
.
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 09:05:46 PM |
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On 23 Jan 2007 12:31:02 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudgeon@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
[snip]
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did.
You cannot be serious?!?!? Read your Bible[TM]!! Just off the top of
my head there was:
- Exodus:32:27-28
- 1Sam15:2-3
- 1Sam25:19
- Lev26:7-8
- Num25:16-17
- Num33:50-52
- Josuha10:19
- Judges20:18,21, 23-25
- Judges20:38-41
- Obadiah1:8-9
And you believe all that is the "inerrant" word of God?
Is the Bible[TM] without error, or has it errors?
It was written by people and people make mistakes.
Only if you assume that the Bible is 100% and literally the "word" of
God. I don't think it is. It was written by people.
Which parts are erroneous? How do you decide - by praying to a diety
described in the partly-erroneous texts?
Leaving aside the mythology and allegory, anything that purports to be
historical but turns out to be false is obviously in error. Anything
that promotes evil over good or gross immorality is, I think, in
error.
I leave aside the mythological parts because mythical events don't
exist in real time, so aren't subject to the same demands as
ostensably historical parts.
Just to take an example. You cite Num 25:16-17 -- "The LORD said to
Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them" This exchanges
good for evil and promotes immoral behaviour, namely killing a whole
people because of an affair.
That doesn't reflect well on the "honour of God" from verse 13, in my
opinion.
People who beleive in pixies and the lie are the cause of much of the
trouble in this world.
What people beleive in is really of little import as far as "troubles
in this world" are concerned.
Not when those beliefs are the justifictaion and rationale for their
intervention!!
Indeed; religion is often so misused as a justification for violence.
Look at virtually any world conflict and behind
it you will see an attempt by gog-bothers of some description trying to
impose thier will on others.
They either have power and wish to impose it or else they want to have
power and will do what they can to get it. You see, religion is not at
the root, but is being misused.
You misunderstand the driving force behind the colonoisation and
settlement by hordes of missionaries.
Power and money are what drives those movements. Even among too many
missionaries.
The sooner people grasp there is not biblical God[TM] the better the
world will be.
A nice bit of propaganda, but those places where either God has been
removed or Atheism has been enforced,
One cant enforce athiesim:
Sure one can. The same kinds of laws and social pressures that are
used to enforce any kind of ideology.
it is (a natural default and) the result of
a lot of 'soul'-searching. Rejecting years of religious indoctronation
(and realising your family is wrong) is not an easy thing for many to
do.
No kind of spiritual movement or change is ever easy.
Note also that enforcement is the domain of the religious. Selective
use of soviet Russia as an example of athiesism is as invalid as
holding up David Koresh to exemplify Christains.
You're barking up the wrong tree. The problem is not religions or
people's belief in God. The problem is the abuse of power by those in
authority.
Whose values are defined by their 'Christain' faith. And such a faith
condones ignorance. And the ignorant are easily led.
Padraic
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "aversiveness" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 11:51:19 PM |
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On Jan 23, 10:05 pm, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 23 Jan 2007 12:31:02 -0800, "misanthropic_curmudgeon"
<misanthropiccurmudg...@breastcancermail.com> wrote:
Padraic Brown wrote:
[snip]
Then explain why God[TM] commanded some men to make war on other men.
God never did.
You cannot be serious?!?!? Read your Bible[TM]!! Just off the top of
my head there was:
- Exodus:32:27-28
- 1Sam15:2-3
- 1Sam25:19
- Lev26:7-8
- Num25:16-17
- Num33:50-52
- Josuha10:19
- Judges20:18,21, 23-25
- Judges20:38-41
- Obadiah1:8-9
And you believe all that is the "inerrant" word of God?
Is the Bible[TM] without error, or has it errors?It was written by people and people make mistakes.
Only if you assume that the Bible is 100% and literally the "word" of
God. I don't think it is. It was written by people.
Which parts are erroneous? How do you decide - by praying to a diety
described in the partly-erroneous texts?
Leaving aside the mythology and allegory, anything that purports to be
historical but turns out to be false is obviously in error. Anything
that promotes evil over good or gross immorality is, I think, in
error.
So you, the practictioner, the faithful, get to arbitrarily decide what
parts of the Bible are the true Word of God and which are the
fabrications of men? You get to decide what is evil or immoral? Does
this elevate you to the status of god?
This sounds like a fun religion! You get to make it up as you go!
I leave aside the mythological parts because mythical events don't
exist in real time, so aren't subject to the same demands as
ostensably historical parts.
But do you or do you not accept them as truth? Are they the inspired
word of god? The phrase ''leave aside" above is unclear what you mean.
Just to take an example. You cite Num 25:16-17 -- "The LORD said to
Moses, "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them" This exchanges
good for evil and promotes immoral behaviour, namely killing a whole
people because of an affair.
That doesn't reflect well on the "honour of God" from verse 13, in my
opinion.
So you just aren't comfortable with it, in your modern sensibilities,
so you'll edit it out. It sounds like the Bible is due for Yet Another
Revision(tm). How many times do you think that has happened in the
past?
Ultimately, at some point, if you are a Christian, you still have to
accept _some_ parts of the Bible as true in order to base the beliefs
that a) there is a god and b) Jesus was is living son who died for you
on the cross. Which specific parts of the bible, upon which those
claims can be based, do you accept as true? And why do you believe
THOSE particular parts are true?
People who beleive in pixies and the lie are the cause of much of the
trouble in this world.
What people beleive in is really of little import as far as "troubles
in this world" are concerned.
Not when those beliefs are the justifictaion and rationale for their
intervention!!
Indeed; religion is often so misused as a justification for violence.
Look at virtually any world conflict and behind
it you will see an attempt by gog-bothers of some description trying to
impose thier will on others.
They either have power and wish to impose it or else they want to have
power and will do what they can to get it. You see, religion is not at
the root, but is being misused.
You misunderstand the driving force behind the colonoisation and
settlement by hordes of missionaries.
Power and money are what drives those movements. Even among too many
missionaries.
True - the vast majority of conflicts are fought for economic reasons.
Religion is the hypocritical mask that is so often used to disguise
these base motives.
<snip>
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 05:07:17 PM |
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On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
Refuse to listen.
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
There are no others, false or otherwise. Zeus never lifted a wooded finger. Now
you can always call alcoholism, or gluttony as your gods, but that's with a
little g as in (g)od.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
He didn't. If you ever read Genesis, mankind was in a garden. It was the
unrepentant sin telling God "no" that got mankind kicked out be as a god as best
we could. We really messed things up.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Free choice. In order to be made in the likeness and image of God, we had to
have a free will. You atheists misuse your free will and tell God "no". We
Christians say "yes". It's your funeral - enjoy it if you can.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
Satan is simply the leader of the "no to God" group. He sucks people like you
in every day.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
21 Jan 2007 05:29:47 PM |
|
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
Refuse to listen.
Why would billions of people refuse to listen this supposed god creator of
this Universe who also decides
whether they go to heaven or hell???
Your being delusional!
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
There are no others, false or otherwise. Zeus never lifted a wooded
finger. Now
you can always call alcoholism, or gluttony as your gods, but that's with
a
little g as in (g)od.
And your objective verifable evidence for this irrational assertion is???
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal
and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
He didn't. If you ever read Genesis, mankind was in a garden. It was the
unrepentant sin telling God "no" that got mankind kicked out be as a god
as best
we could. We really messed things up.
But Genesis and the rest of the Bibles are no more than myths and fables by
ancient
unknown people with no modern knowledge of reality.
Why would an all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Free choice. In order to be made in the likeness and image of God, we had
to
have a free will. You atheists misuse your free will and tell God "no".
We
Christians say "yes". It's your funeral - enjoy it if you can.
That is no more then evading the question with unsubstantiated relgious
nonsense.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
Satan is simply the leader of the "no to God" group. He sucks people like
you
in every day.
Typical nonsensical religious answer.
duke, American-American
.
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| User: "Jack" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
25 Jan 2007 04:18:45 PM |
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But Genesis and the rest of the Bibles are no more than myths and fables by
ancient
unknown people with no modern knowledge of reality.
Implication 1: The authors are unknown, but we know they were
unreliable.
Implication 2: Science = exclusive reality
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 07:21:52 AM |
|
|
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
Refuse to listen.
Why would billions of people refuse to listen this supposed god creator of
this Universe who also decides
whether they go to heaven or hell???
Your being delusional!
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
There are no others, false or otherwise. Zeus never lifted a wooded
finger. Now
you can always call alcoholism, or gluttony as your gods, but that's with
a
little g as in (g)od.
And your objective verifable evidence for this irrational assertion is???
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal
and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
He didn't. If you ever read Genesis, mankind was in a garden. It was the
unrepentant sin telling God "no" that got mankind kicked out be as a god
as best
we could. We really messed things up.
But Genesis and the rest of the Bibles are no more than myths and fables by
ancient
unknown people with no modern knowledge of reality.
Why would an all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent
designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods,
Wars, Earth Quakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and
punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young
and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions
of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Free choice. In order to be made in the likeness and image of God, we had
to
have a free will. You atheists misuse your free will and tell God "no".
We
Christians say "yes". It's your funeral - enjoy it if you can.
That is no more then evading the question with unsubstantiated relgious
nonsense.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God creations???
Satan is simply the leader of the "no to God" group. He sucks people like
you
in every day.
Typical nonsensical religious answer.
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he will
just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the kingdom
to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
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| User: "Bill M" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 09:58:36 AM |
|
|
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he will
just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the kingdom
to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 10:34:00 AM |
|
|
Bill M wrote:
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he will
just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the kingdom
to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables, contradictions,
human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding, misogyny, destruction,
barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not accurate history and
certainly are not the words of any god unless he is an insane and totally
untrustworthy monster. They are not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What are
available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of questionable
veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000 years before the
invention of the printing press. Even the so called originals were
supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the clergy. And
the status and survival of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's
belief in their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 06:02:36 PM |
|
|
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 08:56:36 PM |
|
|
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
22 Jan 2007 10:03:34 PM |
|
|
wrote in
news:1169520996.559490.215760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up
a list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list
of complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth,
he will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a
little unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present
the kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are
not accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god
unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are
not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals???
What are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over
1,000 years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so
called originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different
authors of unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on
the writings and opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival
of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's belief in
their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence.
Am I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war
and the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway
station in London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
There is an actual Atlanta so why not?
Klazmon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 05:15:53 AM |
|
|
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote in
news:1169520996.559490.215760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up
a list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list
of complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth,
he will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a
little unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present
the kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are
not accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god
unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are
not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals???
What are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over
1,000 years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so
called originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different
authors of unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on
the writings and opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival
of the clergy is totally dependent on their follower's belief in
their Bible stories. There are 18 different English versions alone
and there is no way of knowing how far they have wondered from the
originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence.
Am I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war
and the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway
station in London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
There is an actual Atlanta so why not?
There is an actual Atlanta? Have you been there?
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 03:20:45 PM |
|
|
wrote in
news:1169550953.088857.249210@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169520996.559490.215760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M"
<wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make
up a list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your
list of complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge
the earth, he will just have to hand the kingdom over to you.
That is a little unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he
will present the kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide,
slaveholding, misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible
tales. They are not accurate history and certainly are not the
words of any god unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy
monster. They are not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS
in existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the
originals??? What are available are altered copies of copies by
unknown men of questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles
were written over 1,000 years before the invention of the
printing press. Even the so called originals were supposedly
written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the
clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is totally
dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way
of knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there
is nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective
evidence. Am I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can
be objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US
civil war and the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual
railway station in London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an
actual tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
There is an actual Atlanta so why not?
There is an actual Atlanta? Have you been there?
Robert B. Winn
Nope. I'm reasonably certain about it though. No big deal if I am wrong.
Klazmon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
27 Jan 2007 07:24:48 PM |
|
|
On Jan 23, 2:20=EF=BF=BDpm, Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th=20
<Klaz...@llurdiaxorb.govt> wrote:
rbwi...@juno.com wrote innews:1169550953.088857.249210@m58g2000cwm.google=
groups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwi...@juno.com wrote in
news:1169520996.559490.215760@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwi...@juno.com wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
<rbwi...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M"
<w...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make
up a list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your
list of complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge
the earth, he will just have to hand the kingdom over to you.
That is a little unscriptural, however. =A0The scriptures say =
he
will present the kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide,
slaveholding, misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible
tales. They are not accurate history and certainly are not the
words of any god unless he is an insane and totally untrustworthy
monster. They are not even good fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS
in existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the
originals??? What are available are altered copies of copies by
unknown men of questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles
were written over 1,000 years before the invention of the
printing press. Even the so called originals were supposedly
written by 56 or more different authors of unknown veracity. They
are biased by, and dependent on the writings and opinions of the
clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is totally
dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way
of knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there
is nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective
evidence. Am I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can
be objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US
civil war and the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual
railway station in London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. =A0Do you think there was an
actual tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
There is an actual Atlanta so why not?
There is an actual Atlanta? =A0Have you been there?
Robert B. WinnNope. I'm reasonably certain about it though. No big deal=
if I am wrong.
Klazmon.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 01:22:44 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:56:36 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
Ann Rice's works mention a house that actually exists in New Orleans. I
know, I used to like three blocks from it.
Therefore, vampires are real!
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"...otherwise, we're looking at the potential of this kind
of world:.... a world in which oil reserves are controlled
by radicals in order to extract blackmail from the West..."
- George Bush
Wait... oil reserves?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 02:27:21 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:56:36 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
rbwinn3@juno.com wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
<rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
Ann Rice's works mention a house that actually exists in New Orleans. I
know, I used to like three blocks from it.
Therefore, vampires are real!
Why did you like the three blocks?
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 02:36:04 PM |
|
|
In article <1169584040.986001.138590@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> writes:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:56:36 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
Ann Rice's works mention a house that actually exists in New Orleans. I
know, I used to like three blocks from it.
Therefore, vampires are real!
Why did you like the three blocks?
You kidding? I'd certainly like to have three blocks between vampires
and myself. At a minimum.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
23 Jan 2007 03:24:10 PM |
|
|
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1169584040.986001.138590@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> writes:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:56:36 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectively verified. E.g Gone with the Wind mentions the US civil war and
the city of Atlanta. Harry Potter mentions an actual railway station in
London.
Klazmon.
The Bible mentions Hezekiah's tunnel. Do you think there was an actual
tunnel?
Robert B. Winn
Ann Rice's works mention a house that actually exists in New Orleans. I
know, I used to like three blocks from it.
Therefore, vampires are real!
Why did you like the three blocks?
You kidding? I'd certainly like to have three blocks between vampires
and myself. At a minimum.
-- cary
Naw, cary, vampires are just a myth made up by atheists.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
24 Jan 2007 07:18:48 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:24:10 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <1169584040.986001.138590@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> writes:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:56:36 -0800, rbwinn3 wrote:
Llanzlan Klazmon the 15th wrote:
wrote in
news:1169483639.985354.105770@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Bill M wrote:
< > wrote in message
news:1169472112.656733.291390@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Bill M wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i8s7r2t02h1f146be67rieq48gr31o3f0d@4ax.com...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:53:59 -0500, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
Well, Bill, if all it takes to prove something wrong is to make up a
list of complaints, then obviously, when you present your list of
complaints to Jesus Christ after he returns to judge the earth, he
will just have to hand the kingdom over to you. That is a little
unscriptural, however. The scriptures say he will present the
kingdom to his Father.
Robert B. Winn
The Bibles are nothing more than books of myths, fables,
contradictions, human and animal sacrifices, genocide, slaveholding,
misogyny, destruction, barbarisms, and impossible tales. They are not
accurate history and certainly are not the words of any god unless he
is an insane and totally untrustworthy monster. They are not even good
fiction.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would not any 'real' God protect the originals??? What
are available are altered copies of copies by unknown men of
questionable veracity. The books of the Bibles were written over 1,000
years before the invention of the printing press. Even the so called
originals were supposedly written by 56 or more different authors of
unknown veracity. They are biased by, and dependent on the writings and
opinions of the clergy. And the status and survival of the clergy is
totally dependent on their follower's belief in their Bible stories.
There are 18 different English versions alone and there is no way of
knowing how far they have wondered from the originals.
Well, as I understand what you are saying, you believe that there is
nothing in the Bible that can be verified with objective evidence. Am
I correct about that?
I wouldn't think so. Works of fiction often mention things that can be
objectiv | | | | | | | | | | | | |
