| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Tock" |
| Date: |
29 Jan 2005 10:29:03 PM |
| Object: |
Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
"Sir Marksman" <95@95.com> wrote in message
news:uASKd.5624$8H2.2789@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kwSKd.25366$iC4.9079@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
<Google_Usenet_USA@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107031029.055923.18240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
There are many other beliefs as well, but the good
news about God's way to Heaven is found in the
Holy Bible.
Sorry, but the Bible is
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt and
neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to corroborate
ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of Exodus)?
Starting with the 1st Chapter of Exodus, it says that at the time, there
were more Hebrews in the country than there were Egyptians. Then the story
goes on to say the the Egyptian army was decimated -- dorwned in the water,
don'tchaknow . . .
Thing is, archeologists have dug up all sorts of stuff from that time period
(about 1300 BC), and they can tell you pretty much how often the Pharaoh
farted and in what direction, but there is not any mention of them losing
over half their population or losing their army. Neither is there any
mention of such events in any other archeological digs, despite plenty of
other information being found from that time period.
And you'd think that if the Egyptian army was completely destroyed, as the
Bible says is what happened, then one of the neighboring empires would have
taken the opportunity to invade and conquer -- but there are no records of
that happening, either.
The glaring absence of corroborating evidence of these historical events
leads one to conclude that the account as given in the Bible is Not
Historical Truth, but merely one of many folk tales created by the wandering
nomads of the time.
So. If the Exodus never happened, if all that stuff about Moses going to
Pharoah and the destruction of the Egyptian army never happened, then what
does that imply about the rest of the story? Did frogs and lice and boils
and locusts really plague the Egyptians? Did the waters really turn to
blood? Did Moses really talk to Jehovah on the mountain? Did Moses
manufacture the 10 Commandments himself? Did Moses even exist, or was he
just fiction like the rest of the story?
Ya, the historical evidence says the Exodus story never happened. Since so
much of the rest of the Bible rests on what Moses supposedly did, and since
it never happened, then much of the Bible is based on a falsehood.
Therefore, the Bible is NOT the Perfect Inerrant Word Of God, and is not the
authority for any religious belief or practice.
And that means that your message of "Good News" which comes accompanied by
the standard threat of "Turn or Burn" is nothing more than pure blather.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. Find yourself another religion.
-Tock
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| User: "Sir Marksman" |
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| Title: Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
29 Jan 2005 10:48:25 PM |
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"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:P6UKd.25383$iC4.15644@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
"Sir Marksman" <95@95.com> wrote in message
news:uASKd.5624$8H2.2789@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kwSKd.25366$iC4.9079@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
<Google_Usenet_USA@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107031029.055923.18240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
There are many other beliefs as well, but the good
news about God's way to Heaven is found in the
Holy Bible.
Sorry, but the Bible is
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt and
neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to corroborate
ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of Exodus)?
If you bothered to do any research, you would find that some have.
<Diatribe deleted>
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| User: "Tock" |
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| Title: Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
30 Jan 2005 03:40:54 AM |
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"Sir Marksman" <001@012.com> wrote
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt and
neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to corroborate
ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of Exodus)?
If you bothered to do any research, you would find that some have.
I'd like to see what corroborating evidence you speak of.
FYI, someone posed this selfsame question to a luminary famed for getting
the "straight dope" on all sorts of things, syndicated columnist Cecil
Adams.
Actually, if there were any corroborating evidence, then fundamentalists
would parade it through the streets as "proof" that the bible is True. But
they don't, because there isn't any "proof." Only a conspicuous lack of
evidence . . .
Posted below is what he's got to say about the events alleged in the Book
of Exodus:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_035b.html
Is there any historical basis for the events of the Jewish Exodus?
Dear Cecil:
I don't want to get your column embroiled in biblical debates, but I must
know the answer to a question that has been bothering me for some time. I
need to know if the Egyptians record the Jewish Exodus in their ancient
historical documents. If so, does it differ from the historical accounts? Do
they record a "Moses" raised as a pharoah's son? Did they notice that they
were hit with ten plagues? Finally, do they record the destruction of the
Egyptian army in the Red Sea? --Rufino O., Chicago
Dear Rufino:
If you're hoping for a clipping from the Egyptian News-Gazette reporting a
spate of unusual weather--e.g., partly sunny with occasional torrents of
fire--I have to disappoint you. Apart from the Old Testament and related
sources, there are only a few surviving records of any sort from the Mosaic
era, mostly in the form of inscribed stone slabs called stelae.
There's a large body of Hellenic literature dealing with Moses, but all of
it was written long after the fact and was considerably embroidered in the
process. One stela from the reign of Merneptah (1235-1227 BC, thought to be
roughly the time of Exodus) does refer to the nomad tribe of Israel, but
claims to have destroyed it. Plainly the war correspondence of the time was
no more reliable than that of the present era.
Despite the lack of primary source material, there have been many efforts
over the years to relate biblical places and events to their historical
counterparts, with mixed success. To this day there remains wide
disagreement as to the precise identity of such basic landmarks as the Sea
of Reeds (it certainly wasn't the Red Sea) and Mount Sinai.
One school of thought holds that Moses cunningly led his people across the
Gulf of Suez at ebb tide, then watched as the water rose to its customary
six and a half feet and drowned the pursuing Egyptians. This hypothesis
fails to account for the mighty wind that supposedly parted the waters to
begin with.
Another theory has it that the Israelites crossed Lake Subonis, which is (or
was) separated from the Mediterranean by a narrow isthmus. The surrounding
land is swampy and treacherous and the isthmus itself is frequently
submerged during storms; it's easy to imagine an appropriate scenario.
Of course, the fact that there is no historical evidence for the existence
of Moses or the ten plagues doesn't necessarily mean they were purely
mythical. There's little historical evidence to establish the existence of
anybody from the period, except for those who happened to be head honcho at
some point.
On the other hand, it seems likely that much of the detail of the biblical
account was borrowed from Egyptian sources. The name "Moses" apparently
derives from the common Egyptian suffix -mose, "born of," as in Thut-mose,
"born of the god Thut." The Old Testament claim that the name comes from the
Hebrew mashah is thought to be wishful thinking. The story of the infant
Moses's rescue from the canebrake, interestingly, parallels the Egyptian
legend of the goddess Isis, who hid her son Horus in a delta papyrus thicket
to protect him from some nasty fate.
The ten plagues described in the biblical account--lice, pestilence,
locusts, boils, and so on--are all commonplace features of Egyptian life.
The first plague, for instance, when Moses turns the waters of the Nile to
blood, most likely recalls the fact that the Nile turns red during the
spring floods due to floating microorganisms. A simple explanation of the
plagues, then, is Moses' willingness to take credit for the routine
disasters of the day. No wonder the Israelites wanted out.
--CECIL ADAMS
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| User: "Gary Bohn" |
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| Title: Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
30 Jan 2005 01:31:53 AM |
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"Sir Marksman" <001@012.com> wrote in
news:ZoUKd.5629$8H2.179@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:P6UKd.25383$iC4.15644@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
"Sir Marksman" <95@95.com> wrote in message
news:uASKd.5624$8H2.2789@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kwSKd.25366$iC4.9079@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
<Google_Usenet_USA@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107031029.055923.18240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
There are many other beliefs as well, but the good
news about God's way to Heaven is found in the
Holy Bible.
Sorry, but the Bible is
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt
and neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to
corroborate ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of
Exodus)?
If you bothered to do any research, you would find that some have.
<Diatribe deleted>
Could you possibly post a link to some of this information? I would be
interested in seeing it. Thank you.
--
apatriot #23, aa #1779, Grand Poobah, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation
Responsible for brain damage everywhere!
Gary Bohn
Science rationally modifies a theory to fit evidence, creationism
emotionally modifies evidence to fit the bible.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
30 Jan 2005 03:14:59 AM |
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"Sir Marksman" <95@95.com> wrote in message
news:uASKd.5624$8H2.2789@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kwSKd.25366$iC4.9079@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
<Google_Usenet_USA@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107031029.055923.18240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
There are many other beliefs as well, but the good
news about God's way to Heaven is found in the
Holy Bible.
Sorry, but the Bible is
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt and
neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to corroborate
ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of Exodus)?
Starting with the 1st Chapter of Exodus, it says that at the time, there
were more Hebrews in the country than there were Egyptians. Then the story
goes on to say the the Egyptian army was decimated -- dorwned in the water,
don'tchaknow . . .
Thing is, archeologists have dug up all sorts of stuff from that time period
(about 1300 BC), and they can tell you pretty much how often the Pharaoh
farted and in what direction, but there is not any mention of them losing
over half their population or losing their army. Neither is there any
mention of such events in any other archeological digs, despite plenty of
other information being found from that time period.
And you'd think that if the Egyptian army was completely destroyed, as the
Bible says is what happened, then one of the neighboring empires would have
taken the opportunity to invade and conquer -- but there are no records of
that happening, either.
The glaring absence of corroborating evidence of these historical events
leads one to conclude that the account as given in the Bible is Not
Historical Truth, but merely one of many folk tales created by the wandering
nomads of the time.
So. If the Exodus never happened, if all that stuff about Moses going to
Pharoah and the destruction of the Egyptian army never happened, then what
does that imply about the rest of the story? Did frogs and lice and boils
and locusts really plague the Egyptians?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......frogs and lice and boils and locusts......"
As strange as it may seem, there is some scientific support for the Ancient Egyptions
having a serious problem with frogs, boils and locusts, all about the same time,
at some point in their history.
The other bits you mentioned can not be supported by science.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Beata Hancey" |
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| Title: Re: · · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · |
30 Jan 2005 04:22:01 AM |
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:14:59 +0000, wrote:
"Sir Marksman" <95@95.com> wrote in message
news:uASKd.5624$8H2.2789@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
"Tock" <tock@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:kwSKd.25366$iC4.9079@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
<Google_Usenet_USA@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1107031029.055923.18240@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
There are many other beliefs as well, but the good
news about God's way to Heaven is found in the
Holy Bible.
Sorry, but the Bible is
The Bible is accurate.
Cheers!
Well then, 'splain hows come all the archeologists working in Egypt and
neighboring areas have never turned up anything whatsoever to corroborate
ANY part of the Exodus story (as given in the book of Exodus)?
Starting with the 1st Chapter of Exodus, it says that at the time, there
were more Hebrews in the country than there were Egyptians. Then the story
goes on to say the the Egyptian army was decimated -- dorwned in the water,
don'tchaknow . . .
Thing is, archeologists have dug up all sorts of stuff from that time period
(about 1300 BC), and they can tell you pretty much how often the Pharaoh
farted and in what direction, but there is not any mention of them losing
over half their population or losing their army. Neither is there any
mention of such events in any other archeological digs, despite plenty of
other information being found from that time period.
And you'd think that if the Egyptian army was completely destroyed, as the
Bible says is what happened, then one of the neighboring empires would have
taken the opportunity to invade and conquer -- but there are no records of
that happening, either.
The glaring absence of corroborating evidence of these historical events
leads one to conclude that the account as given in the Bible is Not
Historical Truth, but merely one of many folk tales created by the wandering
nomads of the time.
So. If the Exodus never happened, if all that stuff about Moses going to
Pharoah and the destruction of the Egyptian army never happened, then what
does that imply about the rest of the story? Did frogs and lice and boils
and locusts really plague the Egyptians?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......frogs and lice and boils and locusts......"
As strange as it may seem, there is some scientific support for the Ancient Egyptions
having a serious problem with frogs, boils and locusts, all about the same time,
at some point in their history.
The other bits you mentioned can not be supported by science.
eh. Depends on who you believe. If you choose to believe Discovery
Channel science, there is some historical evidence (though the time
period is off).
b
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