| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Goodness Godless" |
| Date: |
29 May 2004 11:47:04 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
Greece. Crete.
The real birthplace of European Civilisation.
--
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it.
Niels Bohr
Goodness Godless
.
|
|
| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 12:10:03 AM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message
news:1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
I agree. (Except that I don't know about the Mozart part.)
--
RB, Pluralitas!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 01:09:53 AM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message
news:1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
For 99.999% of all *practical* purposes by the time you get out 5 or more
places it does equal one.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
Greece. Crete.
The real birthplace of European Civilisation.
--
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it.
Niels Bohr
Goodness Godless
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "YOELK" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 04:56:41 PM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message news:<1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
In a finite universe there is no such thing as infinitely recuring decimal number.
-----
YOELK
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
Greece. Crete.
The real birthplace of European Civilisation.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 05:26:42 PM |
|
|
(YOELK) wrote in
news:28891102.0405311356.628bb608@posting.google.com:
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message
news:<1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
In a finite universe there is no such thing as infinitely recuring
decimal number.
By definition, the universe of mathematics is not finite.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
|
|
|
| User: "YOELK" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
01 Jun 2004 02:25:43 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FABBA70F238fstone69@207.69.154.205>...
jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in
news:28891102.0405311356.628bb608@posting.google.com:
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message
news:<1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
In a finite universe there is no such thing as infinitely recuring
decimal number.
By definition, the universe of mathematics is not finite.
You probably speak about real number space. However mathemathics
doesn't restricts itself to real numbers, it investigates
also finite spaces. Take for instance the group and field theories
which is apropriate to deal with finite structures (as well as infinite),
or number theory which deals with congruences over finite numbers.
Mathematcs is the apropriate language to describe
the basic structure of the universe, no matter if the universe is finite
or infinite.
-----
YOELK
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
01 Jun 2004 03:13:44 PM |
|
|
(YOELK) wrote in
news:28891102.0406011125.1ea9528e@posting.google.com:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns94FABBA70F238fstone69@207.69.154.205>...
(YOELK) wrote in
news:28891102.0405311356.628bb608@posting.google.com:
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote in message
news:<1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
In a finite universe there is no such thing as infinitely recuring
decimal number.
By definition, the universe of mathematics is not finite.
You probably speak about real number space. However mathemathics
doesn't restricts itself to real numbers, it investigates
also finite spaces. Take for instance the group and field theories
which is apropriate to deal with finite structures (as well as
infinite), or number theory which deals with congruences over finite
numbers.
Mathematcs is the apropriate language to describe
the basic structure of the universe, no matter if the universe is
finite or infinite.
Since we're talking about infinite decimal expansions, the real number
line is the relevant universe.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "nobody" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 06:22:08 AM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
<snip>
Math has nothing to do with reality.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 08:55:46 AM |
|
|
In article <k3hjb0tp94gc71gjt6kpfnad0n1vq68de7@4ax.com>,
says...
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
<snip>
Math has nothing to do with reality.
Math can be useful in modeling reality. Like language (another human
creation), sometimes it describes reality, sometimes it does not, and
sometimes you're not sure.
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
"Today is a fine day for reality . . ."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Adrian" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 09:19:18 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 May 2004 11:22:08 GMT, nobody <nobody@here.com> wrote:
"Goodness Godless" <goodness@godless.net> wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
<snip>
Math has nothing to do with reality.
On the contrary, it is merely independent of the physical world -- not
reality.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 07:00:24 AM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In case you were wondering which it is - - - the universe is finite.
RE: Space Seen as Finite, Shaped Like a Soccer Ball
By Robert Roy Britt, Senior Science Writer
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dixit" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 09:25:55 AM |
|
|
georgann wrote:
"Goodness Godless" wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In case you were wondering which it is - - - the universe is finite.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
That's not what the article says, darling. According to the article we
don't know that the universe is finite.
"After some two millennia of speculation, the scientists involved in the
work say, observations may be on the verge of determining whether the
universe is infinite or finite."
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 10:00:17 AM |
|
|
"Goodness Godless" wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In case you were wondering which it is - - - the universe is finite.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
"Dixit" wrote:
That's not what the article says, darling. According to the article we
don't know that the universe is finite.
"After some two millennia of speculation, the scientists involved in the
work say, observations may be on the verge of determining whether the
universe is infinite or finite."
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Fine. Pick another article.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22finite+universe%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dixit" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 10:45:57 AM |
|
|
georgann wrote:
"Goodness Godless" wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In case you were wondering which it is - - - the universe is finite.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
"Dixit" wrote:
That's not what the article says, darling. According to the article we
don't know that the universe is finite.
"After some two millennia of speculation, the scientists involved in the
work say, observations may be on the verge of determining whether the
universe is infinite or finite."
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Fine. Pick another article.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22finite+universe%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
I don't have to pick anything, darling. "The universe is finite" isn't
my proposition, it is yours.
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 04:22:00 PM |
|
|
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Fine. Pick another article.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22finite+universe%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
"Dixit" wrote:
I don't have to pick anything, darling. "The universe is finite" isn't
my proposition, it is yours.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Well, if you don't hold that the universe is finite then you can surely
prove to me that it is infinite. Yes?
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 08:32:11 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 May 2004 21:22:00 +0000 in episode
<BCDFC8B7.3538E63A%chenault@mindspring.com> we saw our hero georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com>:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Fine. Pick another article.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22finite+universe%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
"Dixit" wrote:
I don't have to pick anything, darling. "The universe is finite" isn't
my proposition, it is yours.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Well, if you don't hold that the universe is finite then you can surely
prove to me that it is infinite. Yes?
No, idiot woman, there's also the position "we don't know."
Which is the "answer" right now...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 12:04:31 AM |
|
|
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
"Today is a fine day for reality . . ."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Dollar Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 05:58:10 AM |
|
|
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
--
L8r,
Uncle Dollar Bill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 08:52:35 AM |
|
|
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
"Today is a fine day for reality . . ."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Adrian" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 09:22:23 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 May 2004 06:52:35 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
It is precisely because mathematics is not merely a construct that
what you say is true. If it were just a construct, then .9 repeating
could just as well simply refer to .9999999999.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Enkidu" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 10:15:46 PM |
|
|
In article <10qnb0t3tn9g6hdu3p4psco4dlie2fcigb@4ax.com>,
adriansdurham@houston.rr.com says...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 06:52:35 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
It is precisely because mathematics is not merely a construct that
what you say is true. If it were just a construct, then .9 repeating
could just as well simply refer to .9999999999.
Does math exist in a universe when there's no one to know it? This is
an old question. My take is that mathematics is a human construct that
closely models many aspects of the universe. Of course, it was
constructed to do so.
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
"Today is a fine day for reality . . ."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Adrian" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
01 Jun 2004 01:33:07 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:15:46 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <10qnb0t3tn9g6hdu3p4psco4dlie2fcigb@4ax.com>,
adriansdurham@houston.rr.com says...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 06:52:35 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
It is precisely because mathematics is not merely a construct that
what you say is true. If it were just a construct, then .9 repeating
could just as well simply refer to .9999999999.
Does math exist in a universe when there's no one to know it? This is
an old question. My take is that mathematics is a human construct that
closely models many aspects of the universe. Of course, it was
constructed to do so.
I didn't say that math "exists". I just said that it isn't merely a
construct.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Goodness Godless" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
02 Jun 2004 05:33:40 AM |
|
|
"Adrian" <adriansdurham@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ktipb0lbv8n2otn0m9meiqqmjjplhqeqpv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:15:46 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <10qnb0t3tn9g6hdu3p4psco4dlie2fcigb@4ax.com>,
adriansdurham@houston.rr.com says...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 06:52:35 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to
run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to
say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
It is precisely because mathematics is not merely a construct that
what you say is true. If it were just a construct, then .9 repeating
could just as well simply refer to .9999999999.
Does math exist in a universe when there's no one to know it? This is
an old question. My take is that mathematics is a human construct that
closely models many aspects of the universe. Of course, it was
constructed to do so.
I didn't say that math "exists". I just said that it isn't merely a
construct.
It is not really about whether 'this here' Universe, Exists.
It's about which 'type' of Universe a Mathematician 'chooses' to
examine.
Physicists, seem to wax 'quite lyrically' (poetic sometimes), as
to whether the Universe is finite or not.
Sometimes, the Mathematics is just poetry and nothing else.
Sometimes it is helpful to let .9999(recurring) = 1. Then
you can get the 'Calculus' to work and bombs will drop
at the required point.
Sometimes it makes sense to make sure you do have enough nines
to take you down to Planks constant. (Building an Atom Bomb.)
--
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it.
Niels Bohr
Goodness Godless
.
|
|
|
| User: "Adrian" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
02 Jun 2004 10:51:43 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:33:40 +0300, "Goodness Godless"
<goodness@godless.net> wrote:
"Adrian" <adriansdurham@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ktipb0lbv8n2otn0m9meiqqmjjplhqeqpv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:15:46 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <10qnb0t3tn9g6hdu3p4psco4dlie2fcigb@4ax.com>,
adriansdurham@houston.rr.com says...
On Sun, 30 May 2004 06:52:35 -0700, Enkidu <enkidu@leaddogs.org>
wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
But those Mathematicians do not spend much time in
this real universe of ours.
Mathematicians, (love them to bits), when they are not
taking time of to taste those naughty pleasures of
sex, food, drugs and rock and roll ( they usually like
boring Mozart).
Mathematicians *choose - will I explore a finite Universe today?
Or will I explore an infinite Universe today?
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to
run
out of decimal places eventually.
Mathematics is a mental construct. It's like saying "Eventually, pi
WILL begin to repeat in a finite universe." It won't. It's an
irrational, transcendental number, and that's just all there is to
say.
0.999... = 1.0. Nothing about the universe being finite or infinite.
It's just something that is true.
It is precisely because mathematics is not merely a construct that
what you say is true. If it were just a construct, then .9 repeating
could just as well simply refer to .9999999999.
Does math exist in a universe when there's no one to know it? This is
an old question. My take is that mathematics is a human construct that
closely models many aspects of the universe. Of course, it was
constructed to do so.
I didn't say that math "exists". I just said that it isn't merely a
construct.
It is not really about whether 'this here' Universe, Exists.
It's about which 'type' of Universe a Mathematician 'chooses' to
examine.
Physicists, seem to wax 'quite lyrically' (poetic sometimes), as
to whether the Universe is finite or not.
Sometimes, the Mathematics is just poetry and nothing else.
Sometimes it is helpful to let .9999(recurring) = 1. Then
you can get the 'Calculus' to work and bombs will drop
at the required point.
Sometimes it makes sense to make sure you do have enough nines
to take you down to Planks constant. (Building an Atom Bomb.)
You seem to be referring to some sort of Pragmatist Theory of Truth.
The fact is that .9 repeating does equal 1. It is not a matter of
definition or practical consequence. If there was some sort of
practical issue, then we would just create a new model in which
everything is redefined so that .9 repeating doesn't equal 1. Even
then, .9 repeating (as it is commonly understood) is still 1 (as it is
commonly understood). Only through a very conspicuous equivocation
can you ever conclude that .9 repeating is not equal to 1.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gregory A Greenman" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 10:55:38 AM |
|
|
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
It makes no sense because he seems to be arguing that .9
repeating is not equal to one because, in a finite world, .9
repeating is not .9 repeating.
--
Greg
----
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Dollar Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
30 May 2004 08:51:57 PM |
|
|
In alt.atheism on Sun, 30 May 2004 15:55:38 GMT, Gregory A Greenman
<see@sig.below> wrote:
In article <40d1bdf3.46410543@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>,
UncleDollarBill@SpamMeNot.com says...
In alt.atheism on Sat, 29 May 2004 22:04:31 -0700, Enkidu
<enkidu@leaddogs.org> wrote:
In article <1085892250.537434@athnrd02.forthnet.gr>,
goodness@godless.net says...
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
Infinite Universe: 0.999 (recurring) =1
Finite Universe 0.9999 (recurring) <>1
You make no sense.
What makes no sense about it? It's completely understandable from
what I can see. :-? In an infinite universe, 0.999 (recurring) is
the same as saying "1". But in a finite universe, you're going to run
out of decimal places eventually.
It makes no sense because he seems to be arguing that .9
repeating is not equal to one because, in a finite world, .9
repeating is not .9 repeating.
Ahhhh! Gotcha'. Now I understand the quandry. I guess you're right:
0.9 (repeating) doesn't exist in a "finite" world, so that
0.9 (repeating - infinite universe) != 0.9 (repeating - finite
universe)
....because 0.9 (repeating - finite universe) only repeats until the
decimal places run out, 0.9 (repeating - infinite universe) repeats
forever.
Hadn't thought of it like that before. Thanks for clearing that up!
:-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Dollar Bill
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Beowulf" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
01 Jun 2004 10:17:49 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 May 2004 07:47:04 +0300, "Goodness Godless"
<goodness@godless.net> ejaculated:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
For all practical purposes it will never equal 1, because
for all practical purposes the Universe is finite.
_
The value of 0.9 has *****-all to do with "the Universe" and
everything to do with the definition of symbols in whatever
mathematical system you're using. There isn't any reason to think
that items in a mathematical system necessarily have a corollary in
reality. Infinity exists in mathematics and so does 0.9999....
_
And in this axiomatic theoretical system called mathematics 0.9 = 1,
unconditionally. The proof requires no more than 8th grade algebra.
Did you have a point?
--
"You claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why, then, are you so surprised when you hear your own eulogy?"
- Tool, "Eulogy"
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Richardson" |
|
| Title: Re: Infinity - Does 0.999999999 = 1 |
31 May 2004 07:56:02 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 May 2004 07:47:04 +0300, "Goodness Godless"
<goodness@godless.net> wrote:
To put it simply, yes it does equal 1 in an infinite universe.
In a finite universe, it will *never equal one.
no it equals 1 - the finiteness or infimitness of the universe is
irrelavent.
You could say Mathematical truths are true in all possible universes.
Ort to put it another way 0.9999' = 1 is a necessary truth not a
contingent one.
Mark
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
