Re: # of 'kinds' of cattle, birds, and beasts of the field today?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "david ford"
Date: 09 May 2006 10:18:03 AM
Object: Re: # of 'kinds' of cattle, birds, and beasts of the field today?
Kermit wrote:

david ford wrote:

How many 'kinds' of cattle, birds, and beasts of the field are there
today?

For purposes of answering this question, a teacup poodle, wolf, and
Great Dane are all 1 (one) 'kind.'


<snip>

Evolutionary science does not expect greater variation from one
generation to the next than you see between any parent in church and
her kid. We started with one kind; now we have more. At no point would
we look at any parent-child and say "That's a different kind!"

"We started with one kind; now we have more."
What is the name of that starting kind?
What does it look like?
How did it get and utilize energy?

If we got in our time machine and took your picture, and one of your
great-grandpa ten generations back (about 200 years), and a couple
thousand more in succession, we would cover 400,000 years or so. Post
all those fotos on a wall, in order. Start with you and walk back. We'd
see the normal variation for picture to picture that we would imagine
between any two random members of a tribe. Now and then we might see
some ethnic changes as we move back in pre-history. Your ancestors
would be dark-skinned Africans about 200 pictures back. Before the time
we got to the end of the line we'd see a distinct difference - these
folks aren't exactly human anymore; at least, not like you see in
church or the mall.

Every generation - after their kind.

"Post all those fotos on a wall, in order."
Is there a fossil record recording of a similar succession?
If yes: URL to photos of the members of that succession?
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Ager in
Ager, Eldredge & Tattersall
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990509232910.38199A-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu
Eldredge in _Synthese_
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.981222231509.19980I-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
Essay on Problems with Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.10A.B3.10005310900310.17702-100000%40jabba.gl.umbc.edu
.

User: "Kermit"

Title: Re: # of 'kinds' of cattle, birds, and beasts of the field today? 12 May 2006 01:47:38 PM
david ford wrote:

Kermit wrote:

david ford wrote:

How many 'kinds' of cattle, birds, and beasts of the field are there
today?

For purposes of answering this question, a teacup poodle, wolf, and
Great Dane are all 1 (one) 'kind.'


<snip>

Evolutionary science does not expect greater variation from one
generation to the next than you see between any parent in church and
her kid. We started with one kind; now we have more. At no point would
we look at any parent-child and say "That's a different kind!"


"We started with one kind; now we have more."

What is the name of that starting kind?

Life.

What does it look like?

You would first have to decide at what point between the first organic
molecules through the first replicating molecules, through to the first
cell, that you would say "That's alive." The process took two billion
years. Getting to the first cell was the *hard part. After that, the
rest was comparatively simple - a mere 500 million years or so.

How did it get and utilize energy?

Ultimately it got it from the sun, just like we do. Probably. There *is
life based on the heat and chemistry vented from undersea volcanic
vents, but with more sunlight available than vents I'd put my money on
Sol.


If we got in our time machine and took your picture, and one of your
great-grandpa ten generations back (about 200 years), and a couple
thousand more in succession, we would cover 400,000 years or so. Post
all those fotos on a wall, in order. Start with you and walk back. We'd
see the normal variation for picture to picture that we would imagine
between any two random members of a tribe. Now and then we might see
some ethnic changes as we move back in pre-history. Your ancestors
would be dark-skinned Africans about 200 pictures back. Before the time
we got to the end of the line we'd see a distinct difference - these
folks aren't exactly human anymore; at least, not like you see in
church or the mall.

Every generation - after their kind.


"Post all those fotos on a wall, in order."

Is there a fossil record recording of a similar succession?

Yes, but of course not in that detail - that's why we'd need a time
machine. Also, the remnants of living things we call fossils do not
generally make so clear a procession as we would see and understand
with human face photos.

If yes: URL to photos of the members of that succession?

Don't be disingenuous. Do you believe the Roman Empire existed? And yet
you don't have (nor demand) a census of every name for every person in
every generation. We don't need that kind of preposterous detail to
believe the Roman Empire existed, and anyone who accepts testable
models that fit the facts understands that evolution happened.


<snip self abuse>
Kermit
.


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