Idea about prophecy, like all Biblical doctrines, have
consequences for the way we live in the present and
plan for the future. =A0The way you live in the present
and plan for the future determines our planning and
our actions. =A0In other words, what we're going to do.

Consider these statements by well known prophecy writers:

********************************************
"This world is not getting any easier to live in. =A0Almost
unbelievably hard times lay ahead. =A0Indeed, Jesus said
these coming days will be uniquely terrible. =A0Nothing
in all the previous history of the world can compare
to what lies in store for mankind!"

"What a way to live! =A0With optimism, with anticipation,
with excitement! =A0We should be living like persons
who don't expect to be around much longer."

"I don't like cliches, but I've heard it said, 'God didn't
send me to clean the fishbowl, he sent me to fish.'.
In a way, there's a truth in that."
********************************************

Now what do these really say? =A0To give up on this world
and to hope that it comes to destruction pretty soon!

But is that what Jesus really taught? =A0Is that what any
of the Apostles taught? =A0Think about it. =A0Can we really
reconcile these ideas with Jesus' Sermon on the Mount?!
Or with the way that the Apostles taught us to be kind
to others and do the things that God would approve of?!

It seems to me, that they were uniquely (unfortunately
uniquely) teaching to do the best we could to make this
world a place of peace. =A0And God told us to "pray for"
this world and Paul told us to pray for those in charge,
to bring about peace. =A0How does the Dispensational/Futurist
belief square with this?! =A0After all, if we're going to
believe in that view and promote it, we should be
able to answer a question as simple as that, no???

Now I am not even saying that their view of "To Hell
with this world" is intentional. =A0And they do hold this
view, not matter how hard they try to deny it and frankly,
the denial of it should tell them not to hold that view,
instead of denying it and then going on to promote it. (:

But they may honestly believe that they are loving God by
having this view and may not realize the selfishness that
it promotes, nor the vanity, ego and pride that it entails.

But good intentions, if they are indeed that for each person
(each person will have to search themselves for the answer
to their particular reasons for believing in it), does not
mean that it's okay to keep believing it. =A0And so, we must,
as we are all called to do, examine our own belief system!

But do not take this message as an attack, but rather as
declarations of what it means to take these views, at least
as far as this specific portion of that belief system is
concerned, because it affects us all! =A0It affects you.
It affects me. =A0It affects everyone you see! =A0And you will
see why that is true, as the thought progresses in this
message. =A0At least I hope and pray that you will! =A0:)

People claim that Preterism takes away hope, because
we believe that Christ returned within that same generation,
as promised. =A0However:

1) We do not believe in hopelessness and we do have hope.
=A0 =A0 We have the hope of being with Jesus for eternity, in
=A0 =A0 Heaven, not on some recreated planet Earth, on which
=A0 =A0 God abandons Heaven to live. =A0To do so, would mean
=A0 =A0 that Earth must be better than Heaven and that would
=A0 =A0 mean that Heaven must be imperfect, since one
=A0 =A0 cannot possibly get any better than perfect! =A0We should
=A0 =A0 all also see John 14:2-3, in which Jesus said that He
=A0 =A0 would take us to Him, in Heaven and He said nothing
=A0 =A0 about a temporary hotel stay. :) =A0He promised us
=A0 =A0 great dwelling places, not hotel rooms! :)

2) Since they say that Jesus' return is what the hope
=A0 =A0 is about, what happens if He returns tomorrow?
=A0 =A0 According to them, hope is gone. =A0So if what they
=A0 =A0 say is true, then there is no difference, except for
=A0 =A0 *when* the hope is gone! =A0So either we both take
=A0 =A0 away hope at some point, or they have it wrong,
=A0 =A0 when they say that we take away hope. =A0The truth
=A0 =A0 is, that we both have a hope and their hope is in
=A0 =A0 this world and ours is in the next.

3) They are concerned with this world as their future
=A0 =A0 eternal home, even though Jesus said we would
=A0 =A0 be with Him in Heaven forever and so, they abandon
=A0 =A0 this world, hoping for its destruction, so that they
=A0 =A0 can live in what they think is coming, which is a
=A0 =A0 new planet Earth and to Hell with you, literally!
=A0 =A0 Our concern with this world is not in eternity,
=A0 =A0 since we believe that is in Heaven for believers.
=A0 =A0 But we do seek to do our best to make this world
=A0 =A0 a better place to live, while we are here, which is
=A0 =A0 what the Bible instructs us to do!

Ted Peters writes that for some Christians, this kind of
thinking "functions to justify social irresponsibility".

I guess he's right, since how much is one geared to
help, when they are looking forward to its destruction?

How do people who pray for people to be destroyed,
claim to be Christian? =A0I have even seen some people
praying (I could overhear them) for this, after being
in an argument with someone who is not a Christian
and praying for God to bring it on, while they grit
their teeth in anger! =A0sad! (:

And I believe that we have probably all seen it and
a number of us have done it. =A0How do you; how can
you possibly justify this?!?

"Revenge IS MINE, saith the Lord!"

Stop preaching it and do what you tell others to do!

While not everyone believes in the end time scenario
that these people lay out, a kind of "end time inevitability"
has set in that, "portrays the present evil world as beyond
improvement or redemption and predicts instead that it
will deteriorate steadily until the coming of Jesus, who
will then set up his millennial reign on earth".

How does this type of mentality seek to help people?
The truth is, that it is the Christians who claim to want
to help mankind and who claim to be a majority in
this country, for example, that have let it go! =A0Oh sure,
they *talk* a good game! =A0But what *actual* changes
are we seeing?!? =A0They don't even come out in force
to vote for Godly bills, let alone actually go out there
and make the country change by their actions! (:

Rather, they sit in church, saying "Amen, Lord!" and really
that's about it! =A0They hand a few bucks to the church and
figure they did their part! =A0This is not about all of them,
of course, but let's face it... =A0most. (:

Yea, Jesus really changed YOUR life, huh?!? =A0NOT!!! =A0(:

And why? =A0Because, you are CHEERING ON the destruction
of this planet! =A0So don't tell me that you give a crap what
happens to it, no matter how many "Amens" you shout out
at church once a week and no matter how many denials of
this you write here in these news groups and in response
to this message, which I'm sure I'll be blasted for!

They figure that Jesus, at His coming, will put it right,
so there seems to be no point in actually trying to
reform anything. =A0Hypocritically, they read about how
God delayed certain judgments and when asked why
Jesus hasn't come yet (by their belief system), they claim
that He has delayed it, but yet, think that there is no
reason to delay it any further and so, instead of acting
and praying for a delay, they instead, pray for it to come!

Why? =A0Vanity! =A0They want it to come and they want this
world destroyed and they want it to be about them and
their generation and if it isn't, as more than one person
HAS SAID TO ME, they get the attitude of, "If the Bible
isn't about us and our time, then what good is it?".

HUH?!? =A0Can you even fathom what kind of vanity and
selfishness it takes to make a statement like that?!? =A0(:

Do you realize, a student asked Tom Sine during one of
his futurology sermons in the United States, "...if we start
feeding the hungry people, things won't get worse and if
things don't get worse, Jesus won't come?".

Now if this doesn't say it all, then I don't know what will!

If this does not tell us how Dispensationalism/Futurism
has infected us and made us into uncaring about those
we should be helping (no matter how much we claim
otherwise, naming good deeds we do, which are simply
done to avoid being pointed at and for many, to brag
about), then I don't know what will!!!

This student was utterly sincere! =A0Tom Sine said that...

"The response of the student reflects what I call,
The Great escape View of the future... =A0The irony
is that, while it claims to take God seriously, it
unwittingly moves God outside history, insisting
that even he is powerless 'in these last days'. ...
It unintentionally fashions him into an impotent,
absentee landlord, who has lost control of this
world and of human history... =A0The Great Escape
becomes an incredible copout from all Christ
called us to be and to do."

But does the Dispensationalist/Futurist view (hereafter
referred to as the "D/F view") really do damage to
people and to those around them?

That is a valid question! =A0And for some, the damage
will be greater than others. =A0Let us begin, by looking
at the extremists, while bearing in mind that even
though the D/F'ers are not all extremists, it still has
an effect on those they deal with day to day and those
that they claim to be teaching, who may end up being
extremists!

How can I say this? =A0Simple. =A0There are extremists
and they were following the D/F view! =A0And they
learned it from their teachers, who may have been
very nice, loving pastors, who believed in the D/F
view, even though they taught against violence.
But a view that says that we are to look forward
to the destruction of this world and that has many
little factions, teaching that it is anything from
the U.S. government, to microchips, or whatever,
only breeds fear and paranoia and hatred of all
that is around us! =A0And this is the breeding ground
for the extremists!

So what about the extremists? =A0The FBI was unprepared
for the end time logic of Randy and Vicki Weaver, in the
Ruby Ridge disaster. =A0This was not about militants in
the woods! =A0These were people who believed that it was
their government who was the beast and that an Apocalypse
was coming to them, in their time!

Imagine what they thought, when they saw law enforcement
coming onto their property! =A0That it had begun and that they
were resisting Satan!

So yes, they may have believed that they were fighting
the Lord's battle, but guess what? =A0It was just more
end times, "It's all about me, me, me!" D/F vanity,
wrapped up in so called "Godly resistance of the Devil"!

That wouldn't happen with you, you say??? =A0Well then,
"Mr or Mrs Microchips are the Mark", what would YOU
do, if the government passed a law, that forces you to
have your children get the chip, to prevent them from
being kidnapped and killed?!? =A0Would you let it happen?
Or would you physically fight, if necessary, to keep it
from happening?

Hmmmm....

If you are serious about your belief, then of course,
you would fight, if they came to your door, right?

So don't tell me that YOU aren't an extremist! =A0YOU ARE!

And furthermore, YOU PROMOTE IT IN OTHERS!!!

Now I'm not saying that the U.S. government should be
able to do this. =A0I am noting the contradiction between
these end timers and what the Scriptures say, considering
that the Apostles were killed off, as were millions of
other Christians and their response, compared to yours!

And isn't this an interesting contrast to what the Apostles
did? =A0I mean, didn't they stay peaceful, using the opportunity
of being locked up, to preach? =A0And wasn't Paul so peaceful,
that he was allowed to write letters, live in a house and
preach and have church gatherings right in that house?!?

So who is the extremist here? =A0It seems that maybe you
are no different than Randy and Vicki Weaver???

And I know, you think some world wide tribulation is coming
and that what they went through in the 1st century is nothing,
because it's all about you and your time, but the reality is,
that they died for their faith, never once teaching people to
abandon trying to make the world better and never once
teaching to ignore the suffering in this world, because hey,
it's going to blow up anyway. =A0Can you quote me some
passages in which they taught that? =A0No? =A0Didn't think so! :)

So why don't you stop spending most of your time trying
to speculate when the world is going to end, while at the
same time, claiming that "it isn't important anyway",
when being shown Scriptures that conflict with your
doctrine and spend that time instead, trying to make
the world a better place for your fellow man!

Imagine what shape the world would be in today,
if we all stopped trying to tell people to place their
heads between their knees and kiss their asses
goodbye, because the world could blow up tomorrow
and instead, we spent all of that wasted time, trying
to feed that person?

Some people say "Give up. =A0God's going to destroy it anyway.".

Others say, "We are called to help others, as Christ did." and
then they spend their time doing the opposite, because hey,
the world's going to end anyway, which makes them like
most Christians here. =A0Hypocrites. (:

Still others say that we should help others and they actually
do it and don't waste time with such nonsense as being
vain enough to think that the Apostles wrote to people then,
because they really meant to ignore them to talk to us now
and so, they go out and actually help people!

Which one do you want to be? =A0Just imagine what the world
could be like, if you prayed for the world, believing that
when God said that He would heal the nations if we did,
that He meant it and if we acted positively toward actually
physically helping others with our own two hands!!!

Just imagine what it would be like, if we stopped talking
about how their is no hope and helped people, instead of
hypocritically claiming that it is the Preterists who take
away hope, when it is the Preterists who go out and help
people and try to give them hope, not of a destroyed world,
but of a better one and eternal peace with Jesus in Heaven,
which the D/F'ers object to, because it doesn't make it all
about them and this world!

Quit attacking people who don't believe that it's all about
you and won't bow to you as if you're God and go help
make the world a better place! =A0Maybe then, the atheists
won't be so hard on you and you might have a shot at
converting them, instead of thinking that your ego and
vanity will do it!

In other words, cut out the nonsense!!! =A0Live in peace!
And stop whining about being attacked, when you're
the attacker of all who won't believe that it's all about
you, right now, today, when in reality, you are the
attacker of all hope for others! (:

--

Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom.
not a guide, by which to live. - Robert Kennedy