On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:59:52 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
<PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:

"HiEv" <spam@someoneelse.invalid> wrote in message
news:CpOdnYYV2ORYHzPYnZ2dnUVZ_oernZ2d@comcast.com...

Pastor Frank wrote:

Slapping down Christians was my favourite hobby.
However, as one grows older and hopefully wiser, one doesn't need to
feel superior to "superstitious morons" like Christian anymore, and one
tends to become more generous with praise and support of others. One
likes
to look for things positive i.e. the few things which are good and
hopeful.
That is why you see Christians praising and glorifying, which is a
totally
unknown activity in atheism. It sure takes a will and practice to see the
good in others, write in support of others and have one's own ego step
back
some.

Oh for crying out loud. You haven't changed anything but what side
you're on. Your self-appointed "job" was to "slap down" Christians, now
it's to "slap down" atheists. You still aren't supporting anything nor
advocating, promoting, or affirming anything nor anyone any more than
you were before. You're still looking for dirt, applying it to others,
and are proud of it. "Slapping down" atheists is your new favorite
hobby. You feel superior to us "foolish atheists" and you don't praise
or support anyone that I've ever seen.

You need to support that with evidence.

Red Herring.


And a lie, too boot.

I explained why I became a
Christian, by advocating Christ and His philosophy of life. I don't waste my
life anymore slapping down people, including atheists.

All that you have ever done in this NG, is to try and slap down
atheists, and/or Jews.


Your posting history is there in Google, for all to see.

Pastor Frank wrote:

HiEv wrote:

I guess you missed my other post in this thread where I pointed out
that
how the religion is perceived is merely an opinion? To you, theism is
good and atheism was bad, to me the opposite is true. Are either of us
wrong? No! They're just our opinions. So why are you pretending that
your experience as an atheist is the same for all other atheists? If
you really believe that, then you would have to be incredibly cynical
or
simply insane, because of all of the other atheists who have told you
that they don't experience the "negativity and hopelessness" you did.

You apparently don't understand what I wrote, for I did not
"experience
negativity and hoplessness" myself, I said that as an atheist my job was
to
create that in others by slapping them down, and I enjoyed doing it.

And apparently still do.

I was an atheist most of my life and like atheists posting here, I
never
supported anything nor advocate, promote and affirm anything nor anyone.

I'm not sure where "here" is to you, but that's not "like atheists
posting here" as far as I can see. I've seen many posts in alt.athiesm
that advocate, promote, and affirm things.

Besides, judging all atheists based on the select few who post "here"
will only give you a pretty biased sample of what atheists do in the
rest of their lives, and what the rest of the atheists who never get on
Usenet are like. Most atheists on Usenet are attacked by religious
bigots on a regular basis, so expecting most of their posts to be
sunshine and lollipops while being constantly attacked is ludicrous.

It
was always criticism of others. As an atheist you are required to look
for
dirt and I found lots of dirt and was proud of it.

As an atheist you aren't "required" to do anything. "Atheism" isn't a
religion, it has no tenets, rules, or practices. What a person makes of
atheism is up to the individual.

Slapping down Christians was my favourite hobby.
However, as one grows older and hopefully wiser, one doesn't need to
feel superior to "superstitious morons" like Christian anymore, and one
tends to become more generous with praise and support of others. One
likes
to look for things positive i.e. the few things which are good and
hopeful.
That is why you see Christians praising and glorifying, which is a
totally
unknown activity in atheism. It sure takes a will and practice to see the
good in others, write in support of others and have one's own ego step
back
some.

Oh for crying out loud. You haven't changed anything but what side
you're on. Your self-appointed "job" was to "slap down" Christians, now
it's to "slap down" atheists. You still aren't supporting anything nor
advocating, promoting, or affirming anything nor anyone any more than
you were before. You're still looking for dirt, applying it to others,
and are proud of it. "Slapping down" atheists is your new favorite
hobby. You feel superior to us "foolish atheists" and you don't praise
or support anyone that I've ever seen.

In other words, you're just repeating the same old act while simply
wearing a different suit. You think you've gotten better? You're only
fooling yourself, you haven't really changed at all.

So, fine, maybe that's how you acted as an atheist. How is that any
different from how you're acting as a Christian today? The worse
problem is that you foolishly insist that all atheists act like you
do/did.

I've seen you shut your eyes and stick your fingers in your hears while
humming loudly every time someone points this out, but atheists *do*
support, advocate, promote and affirm things and people. They *do* look
for things that are positive, good, and hopeful. Maybe you didn't, or
maybe you're only telling yourself that you didn't, but there is nothing
in the definition of "atheist" that would make any act that way, and
very few do.

You seem to be of the "if I don't see it, it isn't happening" sort, but
I can tell you that it *is* happening, you're just not looking. Even
when people hold it in front of your eyes, your perspective has been so
distorted by your past and your religion that you don't see it. For
example, Gene Roddenberry, creator of "Star Trek," was an atheist
(specifically, a secular humanist,) and it was visible in the show. The
show did plenty to support, advocate, promote and affirm good things and
the potential for good in mankind. It provided a hope for a better
future.

So, to say that atheists never do that kind of stuff is to be living in
a self-imposed denial of reality.

Fine. So, you picked the one that made you feel "special," instead of
the one that was most likely true. I prefer to pick the one that is
most likely true, regardless of whether it makes me "special" or not,
because that makes me feel like I'm accepting reality, instead of a
comforting fantasy.

Yes. In atheism "accepting reality" = enduring the inevitable. No joy
in
that!!

I disagree! There are many things to be joyful about in this world.
Heck, I just recently got some time to play with my nephew and niece,
and I had a great time, which simply flew by. I don't see that as
"enduring the inevitable" I see it as having my eyes truly open to the
wonders and joy of the world around me. As the late, great, Carl Sagan
once said, "I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in
pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any
meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an
inconsiderable one, of being true."

If you prefer fantasy over reality, fine. Why not get yourself hooked
on a MMORPG instead of repeating your lifelong pattern of "slapping
down" whatever group you've currently chosen to oppose? (Then again,
that might not actually end that pattern. ;-)

[snip]

Just curious, but why, out of all the various gods, did you pick the
Christian God as the one that you believe is real?

Let's face the truth for once. What atheists call "god" doesn't exist
by
definition, for atheists make sure their definition of the word is
sufficiently ludicrous to preclude existence.

That's true for a few atheists, but certainly not most. You act as
though there is some "Atheist Handbook" that is given to all atheists
and followed to the letter. That is not true, and you know it.
Atheists have various beliefs, and do various things, for various
reasons. They are all individuals. Despite that fact, almost all of
your statements about atheists are overgeneralizations, and bad ones at
that. You've got to get this false atheist archetype out of your head,
because what you call an "atheist" describes only a tiny fraction of
actual atheists.

If you want to "face the truth for once," you should start with that.

Same goes for all other
proprietary religious concepts. There are plenty of existing gods to
choose
from, and I made my choice.

I didn't ask *if* you did, I asked *why* you chose the particular god
that you did over all of the other various gods. Funny how you can't
seem to answer that question, and instead have to throw out these red
herrings in an attempt to dodge the question.

I ask you again, why, out of all the various gods, did you pick the
Christian God as the one that you believe is real? If you can't explain
your reasons to us, how can you expect any of us to accept that as a
logical choice?

You apparently didn't, though not choosing is also a choice.

I was brought up believing in the Roman Catholic God, so I believed in
that god. My family then switched to Methodist, so then I believed in
the Methodist God. However, when I was about to be confirmed Methodist,
I realized that there was no good reason to believe, and I was not
making a logical choice, I was merely following whatever my family did.
At that time, for the first time in my life, I chose my own perspective
on gods, and it was that I no longer believed in them.

For me, believing was not a choice, it was just something that I was
brought up doing. Becoming an atheist was a choice.

You apparently have a great respect for "reality". However reality is
just whatever is, needing no thought nor commitment.

"Needing no thought"? Are you kidding? Science is the study of
reality, and it requires massive amounts of thought and a serious
commitment. You can't respect reality without knowing what it is, and
that's what science is all about.

Religion deals with
ideals, meaning improvement of reality and that takes a great deal of
thought and commitment, implementing which provides life with a laudable
purpose.

Which is why I am also a secular humanist, because it also deals with
ideals, improvement of reality, the implementing of which also provides
life with a laudable purpose, and it also requires a great deal of
thought and commitment. However, secular humanism doesn't need wishful
thinking, supernatural creators, imaginary carrots (Heaven) or sticks
(Hell), or any other such figments to support it. No, secular humanism
is based on the idea that this is the only life we have, and the only
world we've got, so we've got to do our best to make it as good as we
can for everyone. It accomplishes this goal through reason, testing of
beliefs, the scientific method, and a constant search for the truth.

But, instead of me further paraphrasing, you can read the tenets of
secular humanism described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Humanism

Or, if you have a bit of free time, read the Secular Humanist
Declaration here:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=declaration

Once you do that, you will be unable to deny that atheists do indeed
promote the good and work to improve our world.

--
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence
has its limits.

Pastor Frank wrote:

HiEv wrote:

Pastor Frank wrote:

[snip]

Christians are driven by hope, not fear.

I'd say that they are driven by both hope *and* fear. It's a
"carrot-or-stick" approach, where belief and obedience is supposedly
rewarded, while disbelief and questioning is supposedly punished.

[snip]

Most Christians will deny this, of course, because admitting it would
mean risking going to Hell instead of Heaven. Ex-Christians, like
myself, will more readily admit to it because we are no longer in that
"trap." :-)

That illustrates the cynicism and paranoia inherent in atheism, i.e.
traps and getting trapped and being stifled, suppressed, needing to be a
snivelling, obsequious sycophant. etc.
I see the opposite, for I fled atheism late in life because of its
negativity and hopelessness.

I guess you missed my other post in this thread where I pointed out that
how the religion is perceived is merely an opinion? To you, theism is
good and atheism was bad, to me the opposite is true. Are either of us
wrong? No! They're just our opinions. So why are you pretending that
your experience as an atheist is the same for all other atheists? If
you really believe that, then you would have to be incredibly cynical or
simply insane, because of all of the other atheists who have told you
that they don't experience the "negativity and hopelessness" you did.

As an atheist you are akin to a speck of dust
in an infinite cosmos, helplessly being blown hither and thither by the
winds of fate and atheists are required to endure "reality".

But as a Christian I am the beloved son of the most high God, the
Lord
of Lords and King of Kings, and I am one of the princes of His realm and
an
inheritor of His Kingdom.

After life of negativity I opted for the positive, ...yet not I found
myself, but He found me and all my gratitude and worship is due Him.

Fine. So, you picked the one that made you feel "special," instead of
the one that was most likely true. I prefer to pick the one that is
most likely true, regardless of whether it makes me "special" or not,
because that makes me feel like I'm accepting reality, instead of a
comforting fantasy.

Maybe you embraced negativity as an atheist, that doesn't mean that
that's what all atheists do. Maybe atheism made you feel insignificant
and you prefer feeling special, even if that requires accepting
something on faith alone, but again, not everyone is like you, so you
shouldn't project your experiences upon them. It's dishonest and
unrealistic.

Personally, I find it a very positive thing that we can do good and help
our fellow man without needing the "carrot" of Heaven or the "stick" of
Hell that I mentioned above. If we require bribes and/or threats in
order to do good, then that seems like like a pretty "negative" view of
humanity to me.

Look, some people play football and enjoy it, while some people play
football and hate it. You seem to think that just because when you
played football you hated it, so that means everyone else actually hates
it too? I hope you can see how absurd that is when I put it in these
terms. Believing that you're the center of the universe may make you
feel special, however believing that would just make me feel silly. So
please, do not overgeneralize your experience of atheism or theism to
everyone else.

Just curious, but why, out of all the various gods, did you pick the
Christian God as the one that you believe is real?

--
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence
has its limits.

As a militant atheists, you are fighting against the innate knowledge of
God suppressed in your heart and there is no time in your life, that you
disbelieved in the existence of God. In fact you were driven to work
against the Lord by belief in Him ! Therefore militant atheists are not
those who don't believe God exists, but those who don't want God to exist.

Atheists don't believe anything,

or they would mention their beliefs occasionally.
Atheists only disbelieve.

TROLL ALERT~!!!

WhewNotSaved wrote:

1) Atheists believe that life is meaningless.

Atheists don't believe anything, or they would mention their beliefs
occasionally. Atheists only disbelieve.

2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.

Christ's prime law is to love others and treat them as you would want to
be treated. Atheists don't believe that too, as much as they disbelieve
pretty much everything, else and act accordingly. See below

<snip long list of disbeliefs>

Pastor Frank

TROLL ALERT~!!!