| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Albert" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 05:57:40 PM |
| Object: |
Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
I don't care how many marriage certificates or licenses you have, they don't
mean a thing because to God a marriage only is valid if it is between a MAN
and a WOMAN.
Those gay marriage certificates are about as valid as the surprise inside a
Cracker Jacks box.
"shrek" <shrek@at.the.net> wrote in message
news:qsv130dr5s7ehp4rmfpp9gn79fdq83s3r1@127.0.0.1...
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
SAN FRANCISCO - Dozens of same-sex couples lined up outside City Hall
in heavy rain early Monday, waiting for city offices to open so they
could join more than 1,700 other gay and lesbian couples who have
exchanged vows in the last few days.
Despite miserable weather and the Presidents Day holiday, many couples
camped out throughout the night. Though City Hall was scheduled to
open at 10 a.m., City Assessor Mabel Teng said she would try to open
her office earlier because of the demand.
Teng said many of the city workers who helped process the marriage
licenses throughout the holiday weekend were volunteering their time.
"I am just very honored to be involved in this significant and
history-making event," Teng said Monday morning. "I'm so proud to be
part of it."
Since San Francisco officials began issuing marriage licenses to
same-sex couples on Thursday, hundreds of gays and lesbians have wed -
many rushing to California from across the country.
While hundreds of same-sex marriages kept City Hall offices buzzing
through the weekend, conservative activists promised a relentless
legal challenge.
The Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund sued to block the same-sex
unions, and San Francisco Superior Court Judge James L. Warren has
scheduled a hearing Tuesday in the case. A second legal challenge
filed by a California group is also scheduled for a court hearing
Tuesday. Briefs were due Monday.
More than 1,700 marriage licenses have been issued to same-sex couples
since Thursday. Although some may choose to wait before actually
getting married, hundreds have already gone before city officials to
exchange vows and be declared "spouses for life," often in ceremonies
scattered around the interior of the ornate City Hall.
New Mayor Gavin Newsom touched off the wedding spree by ordering
officials to issue licenses to same-sex couples, declaring that he was
merely ensuring equal treatment of gays and lesbians. Newsom later
officiated personally at the weddings of his chief of staff and policy
director, both of whom married their longtime partners.
Critics have pointed to a ballot initiative approved by California
voters in 2000 that says the state will only recognize marriages
between a man and woman. Randy Thomasson, the director of the Campaign
for California Families, one of the groups challenging the marriages
in court, said last week that Newsom "can't play God."
On Sunday, a small group of protesters stood across the street from
City Hall holding signs protesting same-sex unions.
But the critics seemed to make little difference to most of the people
inside the building, where the mood was both busy and joyous. Many
clerks and sheriff's deputies volunteered their time to work over the
weekend.
Rich Walker and Brad Chilcoat, who have owned a home together in San
Francisco for the last three and a half years, exchanged their vows at
the top of City Hall's grand staircase, and said later that the city's
recognition of their union added special meaning.
"It's official. It's official," Walker said, displaying the marriage
certificate stamped with both their names.
The certificate, Chilcoat said, "moves us from second-class citizens
to equal status."
Walker, 50, and Chilcoat, 41, walked out of City Hall arm-in-arm,
cheered by the crowds of people waiting outside.
.
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| User: "Jeff North" |
|
| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
20 Feb 2004 06:59:59 AM |
|
|
[piggyback cos tucker of the *F.U.C.K.W.E.T.C.U.N.T. sect is in my
kill file]
[snip]
| > I just quote the Bible and
| > let Jesus do the rest.
---------------------------------
http://www.biblegateway.com/
1 Timothy 2 :: King James Version (KJV)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over
the man, but to be in silence.
---------------------------------
STFU, your buybull orders you to do so.
---------------------------
* The FULL name of bernie's/lurlean's "church" is - wait for it <drum
roll please>
First Universal Christian Kingdom World Evangelical Temple: Christians
United Now & Tomorrow. <tada>
or F.U.C.K.W.E.T:C.U.N.T to his/her/its friends :-)
Don't forget about Supreme Holiness Interfaith Tabernacle (*****).
and then there's First Universal Christian Kingdom University (FUCKU)
There are a few more but I can't be bothered to dig them out.
--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
jnorth@yourpantsbigpond.net.au : Remove your pants to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
|
| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
20 Feb 2004 01:57:25 AM |
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Let's correct that mistake...
...the "many evils of IDOLATRY" are what the bible talks about.
That's a separate sin from homo sexual lust.
Wrong. You clearly worship the letter of the word instead of the
spirit... and you know what your scripture says about that, don't you?
Homo sexual lust is a
kind of vampirism.
Now that's at least something new... "vampirism" in what way?
No doubt with the typical three fundie weapons: Ignoring facts,
changing topic, hurling insults.
Oh I don't never do none of them things.
You already did, by ignoring historical facts.
I just quote the Bible and
let Jesus do the rest.
Starting with that, how about you state valid evidence for the bible
being more than just a collection of bronze-age myths and legends? And
note that "it's true because it says so", in whatever form, will NOT be
accepted.
Unwanted.
But needed - desperately!
Yeah, by fundies who can't win converts by means of truth. You need
fear and guilt to procreate your sick faith because you know damn well
you have NO facts whatsoever on your side.
...so which christians ARE the "true" christians?
True Christians - you got to capitalize the C in Christians always -
I deliberately do NOT capitalize that. Individual people may well be
worthy of being called Christians, but the sum of all mad fundies that
can be found in these newsgroups is in fact not even christian in any
way. Thus no need to honor them by a capital c.
is the one's that belongs to the church that Jesus founded 2000 years
ago - the FIRST UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN KINGDOM. There's a few of us
scattered in all denominations - but most of us is in the One True
Church.
Yeah sure. That's just "We're the true christians" with other words.
They all claim to be...
The Bible tells you how you can know which of is is real and which of
us is fake: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall now them" (Matthew
7:20).
Thank you for proving that you are no christian by your own reasoning.
Why? Gee, you really know nothing about your scripture... read Romans
2:17-24 and cower in shame.
If you wanna know which churches is real churches, look for
the one's where miracles is performed - like our's.
And of course, there just _happens_ to be no evidence at all available
for all these miracle except for "eyewitness" accounts of indoctrinated
cultists... but we are to believe it anyway.
Harr harr harr!
A praying for all of you,
Keep your lies to yourself.
Oh, and by the way, yes I'm "an uncircumcized heathen" and proud of it.
Your attempt at insult referring to my name has been noted and ignored.
Yeah, you're a "true christian" indeed. A pure fundie hypocrite.
--
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
.
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
|
| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
20 Feb 2004 01:57:33 AM |
|
|
Let's correct that mistake...
...the "many evils of IDOLATRY" are what the bible talks about.
That's a separate sin from homo sexual lust.
Wrong. You clearly worship the letter of the word instead of the
spirit... and you know what your scripture says about that, don't you?
Homo sexual lust is a
kind of vampirism.
Now that's at least something new... "vampirism" in what way?
No doubt with the typical three fundie weapons: Ignoring facts,
changing topic, hurling insults.
Oh I don't never do none of them things.
You already did, by ignoring historical facts.
I just quote the Bible and
let Jesus do the rest.
Starting with that, how about you state valid evidence for the bible
being more than just a collection of bronze-age myths and legends? And
note that "it's true because it says so", in whatever form, will NOT be
accepted.
Unwanted.
But needed - desperately!
Yeah, by fundies who can't win converts by means of truth. You need
fear and guilt to procreate your sick faith because you know damn well
you have NO facts whatsoever on your side.
...so which christians ARE the "true" christians?
True Christians - you got to capitalize the C in Christians always -
I deliberately do NOT capitalize that. Individual people may well be
worthy of being called Christians, but the sum of all mad fundies that
can be found in these newsgroups is in fact not even christian in any
way. Thus no need to honor them by a capital c.
is the one's that belongs to the church that Jesus founded 2000 years
ago - the FIRST UNIVERSAL CHRISTIAN KINGDOM. There's a few of us
scattered in all denominations - but most of us is in the One True
Church.
Yeah sure. That's just "We're the true christians" with other words.
They all claim to be...
The Bible tells you how you can know which of is is real and which of
us is fake: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall now them" (Matthew
7:20).
Thank you for proving that you are no christian by your own reasoning.
Why? Gee, you really know nothing about your scripture... read Romans
2:17-24 and cower in shame.
If you wanna know which churches is real churches, look for
the one's where miracles is performed - like our's.
And of course, there just _happens_ to be no evidence at all available
for all these miracle except for "eyewitness" accounts of indoctrinated
cultists... but we are to believe it anyway.
Harr harr harr!
A praying for all of you,
Keep your lies to yourself.
Oh, and by the way, yes I'm "an uncircumcized heathen" and proud of it.
Your attempt at insult referring to my name has been noted and ignored.
Yeah, you're a "true christian" indeed. A pure fundie hypocrite.
--
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.
.
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| User: "TehGhodTrole" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
20 Feb 2004 04:33:29 AM |
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Sister Lurlean Tucker wrote:
The Bible tells you how you can know which of is is real and which of
us is fake: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall now them" (Matthew
7:20). If you wanna know which churches is real churches, look for
the one's where miracles is performed - like our's. At our church the
blind see, the deaf hear, the mute speak, the lame walk, and the dead
jump up off their death beds to praise the Lord.
ROFL
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
.
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 03:38:30 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:41:56 +0100, "Thore Schmechtig"
<WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:<c11lrd$1ddok8$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de>:
I
can take you all on either way.
No doubt with the typical three fundie weapons: Ignoring facts,
changing topic, hurling insults.
BINGO!
A praying for all of you,
Unwanted.
She'll still force herself on you, no matter how much you say you don't
want it.
--
Lurlean Lie #12:
Homo's are all play and no work. They get jobs only to recruit and gather
support from other deviants such as your whores and dope addicts.
news:7908c278.0312061629.623c571@posting.google.com
.
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| User: "Thore Schmechtig" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 04:47:43 PM |
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Hi,
A praying for all of you,
Unwanted.
She'll still force herself on you, no matter how much you say you don't
want it.
Of course, but my conscience drives me to oppose such ludicrous babble
you know... ;)
--
"From the fury of the Northmen, o Lord, deliver us!"
(Desperate prayer of Irish monks when the Viking dragon ships were sighted. Obviously the Lord had more important things to do than to help his faithful...)
Greetings from Thore "Tocis" Schmechtig
Emails to commoner AT carcosa DOT de will need a "HI-AK 523" in the subject or go down the drain!
.
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 07:45:12 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:47:43 +0100, "Thore Schmechtig"
<WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:<c13eio$1deask$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de>:
Hi,
A praying for all of you,
Unwanted.
She'll still force herself on you, no matter how much you say you don't
want it.
Of course, but my conscience drives me to oppose such ludicrous babble
you know... ;)
As long as you know it's all in vain. :-)
--
Lurlean Lie #3:
Otherwise you wouldn't go to orgy's [sic] all the time the way you do.
news:7908c278.0310181718.ac2f573@posting.google.com
.
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
18 Feb 2004 10:45:33 PM |
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In article <7908c278.0402181801.399ac739@posting.google.com>, Sister
Lurlean Tucker <Lurlean@wowmail.com> wrote:
Bill Baker <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.02.18.09.09.46.812341@postini.spamcon.org>...
You're my hero. ;-)
I'll fix that in no time.
I definitely would like more.
Glutton!
I would love to see you in a debate with Sister Lurlean Tucker in aph. As
far as fundamentalists go, she makes an old Southern Baptist preacher look
like George Carlin.
Well George Carlin's got a dirty mouth. I don't. But I do accept
your challenge. Does Tock want the first say or should I start a
quoting from my Bible on the many evils of sick homo sexual lust? I
can take you all on either way.
A praying for all of you,
Sister Lurlean Whitechapel Tucker
True Fire Baptized Christian
I know it's a parody, but you're not funny enough to read.
--
....and in elder days there were wars in the Heavens between the Ibemmeraphim
and the Angels of the Apple of Knowledge...
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 02:40:42 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:45:33 +0000, William Klee <fnord2k@yahoo.com> wrote
in message news:<f17ee06c6f86c482b10fe87270079e01@news.teranews.com>:
I know it's a parody, but you're not funny enough to read.
Just wait. It gets better. Wait until she starts talking about where she
thinks AIDS really comes from. Or until she starts talking about what
hell is like from first hand experience.
--
Lurlean Lie #8:
Your poor brain. It didn't survive all the dope you took.
news:7908c278.0311081859.496d9072@posting.google.com
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
18 Feb 2004 09:46:16 PM |
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Lo, many moons past, on 18 Feb 2004 18:01:54 -0800, a stranger called
by some (Sister Lurlean Tucker) came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
Well George Carlin's got a dirty mouth. I don't. But I do accept
your challenge. Does Tock want the first say or should I start a
quoting from my Bible on the many evils of sick homo sexual lust? I
can take you all on either way.
Oh, BTW:
This is the rainy season in Northern California. We always get rain,
hail, thunderstorms, and high winds this time of year. These storms
also hit the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and the snow dropped there
provides us with water for the coming year.
It would be worse if we didn't get the storms.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Sister Lurlean Tucker" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 09:25:21 PM |
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Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<36c830dhfscgnrpi7m2nt505ge8m7r1gdo@4ax.com>...
Oh, BTW:
This is the rainy season in Northern California. We always get rain,
hail, thunderstorms, and high winds this time of year.
Not in New Sodom. Thunder and hail is rare here all year round. God
was unleashing His FIERY wrath on the Sodomites outside City Hell a
signing up for special privileges to mock the sacrament of marriage
that God ordained way back in the Garden of Eden. This is only a
TASTE of things to come too. Just you wait 'til the warm weather
comes. Then the ground will shake and crack open and demons will come
forth from deep inside the bowels of the earth to afflict perverts and
weirdo's.
These storms also hit the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and the snow dropped there
provides us with water for the coming year.
Yeah - well the snow boarders that go up there to goof off when
there's evangelical work to be done didn't have a good time last
weekend. It rained all over their snow pack. More wrath from above
if you ask me.
It would be worse if we didn't get the storms.
That could come next. I think God is a trying to teach the people
that live down in the Silicon Valley a lesson about their greed and
sloppy dressing habits.
A praying for you,
Sister Lurlean TRUTH
Fire Baptized Christian
Redeemed by Jesus' Blood
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 11:32:25 PM |
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"Sister Lurlean Tucker" <Lurlean@wowmail.com> wrote in message
news:7908c278.0402191925.5cfc7e28@posting.google.com...
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:<36c830dhfscgnrpi7m2nt505ge8m7r1gdo@4ax.com>...
Oh, BTW:
This is the rainy season in Northern California. We always get rain,
hail, thunderstorms, and high winds this time of year.
Not in New Sodom. Thunder and hail is rare here all year round. God
was unleashing His FIERY wrath on the Sodomites outside City Hell a
signing up for special privileges to mock the sacrament of marriage
that God ordained way back in the Garden of Eden. This is only a
TASTE of things to come too. Just you wait 'til the warm weather
comes. Then the ground will shake and crack open and demons will come
forth from deep inside the bowels of the earth to afflict perverts and
weirdo's.
These storms also hit the Sierra Nevada Mountains, and the snow dropped
there
provides us with water for the coming year.
Yeah - well the snow boarders that go up there to goof off when
there's evangelical work to be done didn't have a good time last
weekend. It rained all over their snow pack. More wrath from above
if you ask me.
It would be worse if we didn't get the storms.
That could come next. I think God is a trying to teach the people
that live down in the Silicon Valley a lesson about their greed and
sloppy dressing habits.
A praying for you,
Sister Lurlean TRUTH
Fire Baptized Christian
Redeemed by Jesus' Blood
"You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you?"
-- Terrance Mann in Field of Dreams
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| User: "No One" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
20 Feb 2004 12:02:58 AM |
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(Sister Lurlean Tucker) writes:
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<36c830dhfscgnrpi7m2nt505ge8m7r1gdo@4ax.com>...
Oh, BTW:
This is the rainy season in Northern California. We always get rain,
hail, thunderstorms, and high winds this time of year.
Not in New Sodom. Thunder and hail is rare here all year round.
God was unleashing His FIERY wrath on the Sodomites outside City
Hell a signing up for special privileges to mock the sacrament of
marriage that God ordained way back in the Garden of Eden.
Odd. In a vision from the Almighty (helped along by a few extra glasses
of vino) I saw George Bush himself, praying to the Lord, asking for a
a nice fireworks display to honor these newly married couples. And
Hallaluja. The Lord came through!
.
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| User: "Bill Baker" |
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| Title: Re: God Unleashes Thunder and Hail on Wayward New Sodom! |
19 Feb 2004 02:32:56 AM |
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On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:01:54 -0800, (Sister Lurlean
Tucker) wrote in message
news:<7908c278.0402181801.399ac739@posting.google.com>:
I'll fix that in no time.
And just how do you propose to do that? You've failed at changing my mind
on anything else.
Glutton!
You wouldn't be saying that if I were asking for more of your preaching.
Well George Carlin's got a dirty mouth. I don't.
It was a figure of speech. George Carlin is very liberal, so you make an
old Southern Baptist preacher look very liberal.
But I do accept your challenge.
Good! I'll get the popcorn, and sit back and watch. This should be very
entertaining.
Does Tock want the first say or should I start a quoting from my Bible
on the many evils of sick homo sexual lust? I can take you all on
either way.
Either way, I'm sure to get a lot of laughs!
A praying for all of you,
Sister Lurlean Whitechapel Tucker
True Fire Baptized Christian
YHBT. HAND.
--
Peter: Hey, Brian, there's a message in my Alpha-Bits! It says, "Oooooo."
Brian: Those are Cheerios.
.
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| User: "mark" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 09:48:19 PM |
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In article <gtrYb.8599$W74.8121@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Steven Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
Peacenik wrote:
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:4035923c.5378969@netnews.mchsi.com...
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:57:40 -0500,
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote:
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized
by GOD. Period.
And just WHERE in the Bible are you and your mean-spirited
and busybodyish/control-freakish ilk either authorized or appointed
ro act as ENFORCERS of any of its precepts (actual, or worse,
misperceived) against society in general? CLUE: I'll save you
whatever time you may have wasted to find such a cite. There is
NO such passage. The Bible appointed NO Gestapo.
Futhermore, not everyone believes in God, either. And that is
their RIGHT.
Nor, with people like you running around showing how UN-
Christian you Pharisees really are, few of them are going to be
perticularly attracted to the notion of changing their mind about
that, either.
What really gets me is that they have the sheer arrogance to claim to know
what their god thinks!! Delusions of grandeur indeed!
Not all gays and lesbians are atheists like you.
there are gays and lesbians who are devoutly religious.
How do they rationalize their behavior given what the Bible says?
Serious question: Is there any way that a gay or lesbian can be a
devout Catholic or devout Protestant?
-- Steven L.
The same way scientist who are devout and yet support evolutionist
theory. I know a few and it poses them no moral dilemma, they all say
there is a distinction between science (or reality for that matter) and
faith.
--
mark
markjs1@*nospam*yahoo.com
~~~~~~~~
"I read somewhere that 77% of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually,
I'm more intrigued by the 23% who are apparently doing quite well for
themselves." - Jerry Garcia
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 07:49:25 PM |
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In article <gtrYb.8599$W74.8121@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Steven
Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
-Peacenik wrote:
-
-> "Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> news:4035923c.5378969@netnews.mchsi.com...
->
->>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:57:40 -0500,
->>"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote:
->>
->>> Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized
->>>by GOD. Period.
->>
->> And just WHERE in the Bible are you and your mean-spirited
->>and busybodyish/control-freakish ilk either authorized or appointed
->>ro act as ENFORCERS of any of its precepts (actual, or worse,
->>misperceived) against society in general? CLUE: I'll save you
->>whatever time you may have wasted to find such a cite. There is
->>NO such passage. The Bible appointed NO Gestapo.
->>
->> Futhermore, not everyone believes in God, either. And that is
->>their RIGHT.
->>
->> Nor, with people like you running around showing how UN-
->>Christian you Pharisees really are, few of them are going to be
->>perticularly attracted to the notion of changing their mind about
->>that, either.
->
->
-> What really gets me is that they have the sheer arrogance to claim to know
-> what their god thinks!! Delusions of grandeur indeed!
-
-Not all gays and lesbians are atheists like you.
-there are gays and lesbians who are devoutly religious.
-How do they rationalize their behavior given what the Bible says?
-
-Serious question: Is there any way that a gay or lesbian can be a
-devout Catholic or devout Protestant?
Of course there is....
In fact it is far easier for a Gay or Lesbian to be a follower of Jesus,
than it is for a wealthy person to be a sincere follower pf Jesus.
(Jesus did not say a word about homosexuals, but what he had to say
about the wealthy isn't pretty. In fact, it is ;oyrts;;y damning.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Begin article++++++++++++++++++++++
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY
Bible References
In Biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms.
Some were:
1. kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as
the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. Homosexual rape was also a
way of humiliating visitors.
2. some non-Jewish tribes in the area had male prostitutes in their
temples who engaged in same-sex activities; this horrified the ancient
Israelites. Temple prostitution is no longer found in most areas of the
world.
3. it was common for male adults to keep boy prostitutes for the purpose
of sexual activity. In modern times, this is considered child abuse, a
criminal offense.
4. it is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian
relationships existed, but these would normally have been conducted in
secret.
Only the last type would have any similarity to today's gay and lesbian
consentual, committed, loving relationships. And they are not mentioned at
all in the Bible.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beliefs Regarding the Bible
Christians differ in their view of the Bible:
* Generally speaking, Fundamentalists and other Evangelical Christians
believe that:
o the Bible, as originally written, is inerrent (infallible) and that God
prevented the authors from error)
o every verse is useful in their understanding of God's intentions
o one should initially attempt to interpret each passage according to its
literal meaning
Many conservative Christians believe that certain translations are
essentially free of error; e.g. the King James Version and the New
International Version. Thus, when they read some of the passages that
clearly and unmistakably condemn homosexuality, they are inclined to trust
the translators and conclude that God hates homosexuality.Unfortunately,
many sets of translators have been heavily biasedagainst certain groups of
people: Witches, gays and lesbians included.
* More liberal Christians tend to look upon the Bible as containing many
transitional errors, whose verses should not necessarily all be taken at
their face value. Sections accepting slavery as a civil institution is one
example. Other examples are seen in many of the verses that deal with
homosexuality.
When one compares the original Hebrew and Greek writings with various
translations of the Bible, discrepancies emerge. Those activities which
the writers of the Bible condemn are either ambiguous or are unrelated to
consentual homosexuality within a committed relationship. They mostly
relate to rape, or temple prostitution.
Many versions of the Bible exist in the English language. Each reflects
the world view, beliefs and mind sets of its translators. Their personal
biases distort their work. There is an additional complexity facing
translators: today's society is very different from that of Biblical
times. It is sometimes difficult to find a current English word that
matches a Hebrew or Greek term.
Many words have been translated from the original Hebrew and Greek texts
as "homosexual", "sodomite", "homosexuality". However, most (perhaps all)
of the references bear no similarity to today's lesbian and gay
partnerships. By carefully reading the original texts and considering the
societies in which they were written, one comes to surprising conclusions:
* The Bible has a lot to say about temple prostitution.
* God condemned the town of Sodom, but apparently not because its
inhabitants were engaging in homosexual relationships. God seems to have
destroyed Sodom because of its treatment of strangers and lack of charity
towards the poor.
* The Bible says almost nothing about homosexual feelings;
* It says nothing about sexual orientation. The writers of the Bible
assumed that everyone was heterosexual (or "straight"). This is
reasonable, because the concept of sexual orientation was not developed
until the late 19th century.
* Although Jesus gave us hundreds of instructions on what behaviors to
avoid and which to embrace, he said nothing about homosexuality.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Specific Verses from the Hebrew Scriptures
* Genesis 19 describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into
Lot's house. The angels were sent to warn Lot that God was displeased with
wickedness of the city's residents and had decided to destroy the city.
The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send
the visitors to the mob so that they might know the angels. [The Hebrew
verb yada (to know) is ambiguous. It appears 943 times in the Hebrew
Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it
refers to sexual activity; it is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape
the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. From
the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly]. Lot refused,
but offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that
would appease the mob. The offer was declined. The angels urged Lot and
his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot's wife looked
the wrong way, so God killed her because of her curiosity.
God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to
be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He
destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all
of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children,
infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God
demolished the city because the citizens habitually:
1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
2. wanted to rape people
3. engaged in homosexual acts
One has to look elsewhere in the Bible for references to Sodom in order to
determine which interpretation is correct.
The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation. In fact, the
term sodomy which means anal intercourse was derived from the name of the
city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the valid one. This is
obvious if we refer to:
o Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7-16: Jesus implied that the sin of the
people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers.
o Ezekeiel 16:48-50: God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins
because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy
suffered, and their worship of many idols; sexual
activity is not even mentioned.
o Jude, Verse 7: Jude disagreed with Jesus and Exekeiel; he wrote that
Sodom's sins were sexual in nature. Various biblical
translations describe the sin as fornication, going after strange flesh,
sexual immorality, perverted sensuality, homosexuality, lust of every
kind, immoral acts and unnatural lust; you can take your pick.
We are faced with the inescapable and rather ironic conclusion that the
condemned activities in Sodom had nothing to do with sodomy.
* Leviticus 18:22 states: "Thou shall not lie with mankind as with
womankind: it is abomination." The term abomination (to'ebah) is a
religious term, usually reserved for use against idolatry. If the
writer(s) of Leviticus was referring to a moral violation, he would have
used the Hebrew word "zimah". The verse seems to refer to temple
prostitution, which was a common practice in the rest of the Middle East
at that time. Qadesh referred to male religious prostitutes. (See the
discussion of Deuteronomy below).
* Leviticus 20:13 similarly states: "If a man also lie with mankind as he
lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they
should surely be put to death....". This is similar to Leviticus 18:22; it
refers to temple homosexual prostitution.
Verse 20:13 is a part of the Holiness Code which is described in Leviticus
17:1 to 26:46. The code lists 614 ethical and ritual laws which were to be
followed by the ancient Israelites. They appear to be a grouping of
several older collections of laws. A consensus exists amongst Christian
theologians, pastors and teleministers that 612 out of the 614 components
of the Holiness Code are no longer applicable to today's Christians. These
permit:
o slavery (25:44)
They require:
o a child to be killed if he/she curses their parent (20:9)
o all persons guilty of adultery to be killed (20:10)
o the daughter of a priest who engages in prostitution to be killed (21:9)
o a priest to marry a virgin (21:13)
o ritual killing of animals, using cattle, sheep and goats (22:19)
o observation of 7 feasts: Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread,
Feast of Firstfruits, Feast of Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of
Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles (23)
o a person who takes the Lord's name in vain is to be killed (24:16)
They prohibit:
o heterosexual intercourse when a woman has her period (18:19)
o harvesting the corners of a field (19:9)
o eating fruit from a young tree (19:23)
o wearing clothes that are made from a textile blend (19:19)
o cross-breeding livestock (19:19)
o sowing a field with mixed seed (19:19)
o shaving or getting a hair cut (19:27)
o tattoos (19:28)
o even a mildly disabled person from becoming a priest (21:18)
o charging of interest on a loan (25:37)
A minority of Christian churches (e.g. Seventh Day Adventists) teach that
worship is to occur on Saturday (19:30) However, essentially all
conservative Christian leaders teach that only one Holiness Law dealing
with homosexuality is still valid today. Christians are free to wear
tattoos, eat shrimp pork or rare meat, wear polyester-cotton blends, seed
their lawns with a grass mixture, and get their hair cut. But
homosexuality is somehow taboo. We have been unable to find any logical
explanation that would justify retaining this one law against
homosexuality while abandoning all of the rest. We find their stance to be
less than ethical.
* Deuteronomy 23:17 states (in the King James Version) "There shall be no
***** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel .
This is a translation error by the authors of the KJV. The word qadesh in
the original text was mistranslated as sodomite. Quadesh means "holy one"
and is here used to refer to a man who engages in ritual prostitution in
the temple. Other Bible translations use accurate terms such as shrine
prostitute, temple prostitute, prostitute and cult prostitute. The entire
verse seems to condemn prostitution, both heterosexual and homosexual.
* Judges 19 describes an event much like that at Sodom. This time, an
unnamed Levite visited the town of Gibeah with his slaves and concubine.
He met an old farmer and was made welcome. A gang of men appeared and
demanded that the old man send out the Levite that they might homosexually
rape or assault him. (It is again not clear what the precise meaning of
the verb to know was). The old man argued that they should not abuse the
visitor. He offered to give them both the Levite's concubine and his own
virgin daughter to be heterosexually raped. The mob accepted the former,
raped her all night and finally killed her. The Levite sliced up her body
into 12 pieces and sent one to each of the tribes of Israel. This
triggered a war between the inhabitants of Gibeah and the Israelites
during which tens of thousands died. There was no condemnation against the
Levite for sacrificing his concubine, or for committing an indignity to a
body. Judges 20:5 emphasizes that the aim of the mob was to kill the
stranger - the ultimate act of inhospitality. It appears that these
passages condemn abusive treatment of visitors. If they actually refer to
homosexual activity, then they condemn homosexual rape; they have nothing
at all to say about consentual homosexual relationships.
* I Kings 14:24 and 15:12 again refer to temple prostitution. The original
word qadesh is mistranslated as sodomite (homosexual) in the King James
Version, but as male prostitute, male cult prostitutes, and male shrine
prostitutes in more accurate versions. As mentioned before, there is
little evidence that homosexuality was involved. Again, the text has
nothing to say about consentual homosexual relationships.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Specific Verses from the Christian Scriptures
* In Romans 1:26 and 27, Paul criticizes sexual activity which is against
a person's nature or disposition. This passage has been interpreted in
many ways:
o most Biblical scholars believe that these verses condemn all gay and
lesbian activity, whether casual or in committed
relationships.
o some people believe that St. Paul is criticizing group orgiastic
homosexual activities, but has nothing to say about monogamous homosexual
activity within long-term partnerships.
o some believe that St. Paul is referring to homosexual temple
prostitution, done in the worship of the Goddess Aphrodite, and that a
careful study of Romans 1:23 reveals this connection.
o some scholars interpret the passage differently: in Greek society of the
time, male homosexuality and bisexuality were regarded as a natural
activity for some people. The "men with men" clause is a translation of
the original Greek word for pederasty which was commonly practiced at the
time by adult males with male youth. Thus Paul might have been criticizing
child sexual abuse.
Traditionally, people have carried their beliefs about sexual orientation
to this verse and interpreted the passage accordingly. The verse appears
to be somewhat vague, and perhaps should not be interpreted as a blanket
prohibition of all same-sex activities.
* I Corinthians 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people
from inheriting the Kingdom of God (heaven). We have studied this verse as
it appears in 24 English versions of the Bible and found that two
activities in Verse 9 have been variously translated as:
o effeminate which covers a wide range of male behavior such as being
unmanly, lacking virility, decadent, soft.
o homosexuals, described as men who have sexual relations with other men,
abusers of themselves with men, sodomites and perverts. It is not clear
whether lesbians are included in this condemnation.
o male prostitutes, also described as men kept for unnatural
purposes. It is not clear whether the term "male prostitutes is restricted
to homosexuals or may also include men who are
heterosexual prostitutes.
o catamites, also described as boy prostitute. This is a young male who is
kept as a sexual partner of an adult male.
The original Greek text describes the second of the two behaviors as
malakoi arsenokoitai. Malakoi means soft; the meaning of arsenokoitai has
been lost. The phrase was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute.
Some sources in the early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to
people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. That may well be the correct
meaning, because presumably people from that era would have still known
the meaning of the word arsenokoitai. At the time of Martin Luther, it was
interpreted as referring to masturbation . More recently, it has been
translated as referring to homosexuals. Each translator seem to take
whatever activity that their group particularly disapproves of at the time
and uses it in this verse.
The correct translation for the first behavior appears to be catamites, a
boy or young male who engaged in sexual activities with men. A footnote to
the New American Bible (3) reads:
"The Greek word translated as "boy prostitutes" [in 1 Cor.
6:9] designated catamites, i.e. boys or young men who were
kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the
Greco-Roman world....The term translated "practicing
homosexuals" refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices
with such boys."
It would appear that the best guess translation for these two behaviors
might be: "male homosexual child abusers and the boys that they rape". We
agree with the Roman Catholic translators that the two behaviors probably
relate to that small minority of male homosexuals who are child rapists
and the male children that they sexually abuse. The verse has no relation
to consentual sex between adults of the same gender.
* I Corinthians 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people
from inheriting the Kingdom of God (heaven). We have studied this verse as
it appears in 24 English versions of the Bible and found that two
activities in Verse 9 have been variously translated as:
o effeminate which covers a wide range of male behavior such as being
unmanly, lacking virility, decadent, soft.
o homosexuals, described as men who have sexual relations with other men,
abusers of themselves with men, sodomites and perverts. It is not clear
whether lesbians are included in this condemnation.
o male prostitutes, also described as men kept for unnatural
purposes. It is not clear whether the term "male prostitutes is restricted
to homosexuals or may also include men who are
heterosexual prostitutes.
o catamites, also described as boy prostitute. This is a young male who is
kept as a sexual partner of an adult male.
The original Greek text describes the second of the two behaviors as
malakoi arsenokoitai. Malakoi means soft; the meaning of arsenokoitai has
been lost. The phrase was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute.
Some sources in the early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to
people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. That may well be the correct
meaning, because presumably people from that era would have still known
the meaning of the word arsenokoitai. At the time of Martin Luther, it was
interpreted as referring to masturbation . More recently, it has been
translated as referring to homosexuals. Each translator seem to take
whatever activity that their group particularly disapproves of at the time
and uses it in this verse.
The correct translation for the first behavior appears to be catamites, a
boy or young male who engaged in sexual activities with men. A footnote to
the New American Bible (3) reads:
"The Greek word translated as "boy prostitutes" [in 1 Cor.
6:9] designated catamites, i.e. boys or young men who were
kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the
Greco-Roman world....The term translated "practicing
homosexuals" refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices
with such boys."
It would appear that the best guess translation for these two behaviors
might be: "male homosexual child abusers and the boys that they rape". We
agree with the Roman Catholic translators that the two behaviors probably
relate to that small minority of male homosexuals who are child rapists
and the male children that they sexually abuse. The verse has no relation
to consentual sex between adults of the same gender.
* 1 Tim 1:9-10 again refers to malakoi arsenokoitai which has been
variously translated as homosexuals, sexual perverts etc. Again, the
original meaning of the text as been lost, and the comment bears no
relationship to consentual homosexual sexual activity.
* Jude 7 refers to the people of Sodom as "giving themselves over to
fornication and going after strange flesh". Strange flesh has been
variously translated as perverted sensuality, unnatural lust, lust of men
for other men, and perversion. Again, it is unclear what is being referred
to here. Some biblical scholars interpret this as referring to an ancient
Jewish legend that the women of Sodom engaged in sexual intercourse with
angels.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary:
* There are no references in the Bible to committed homosexual relationships.
* Homosexual activity in the temple by male prostitutes is clearly
prohibited by the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).
* Prostitution, both heterosexual and homosexual is generally condemned.
* Sexual abuse of boys by adult males is condemned
* St. Paul considered at least some male and female homosexual acts to be
forbidden, but it is unclear precisely which acts are included. He may
have been referring to temple prostitution, to people who are not innately
gay, lesbian or bisexual engaging in homosexual acts, to child sexual
abuse or group sexual orgies. One should note that Paul also condemned
women preaching (1 Cor 14:34) or wearing gold or pearls (1 Tim 2:11). He
also accepted and did not condemn the institution of slavery. Some
Christians feel that his writings are not a useful guide for ethics and
morals in the 20th Century.
* Jesus made many hundreds of statements regarding belief and behavior.
However He never mentioned homosexuality.
* There are two Biblical same-sex relationships (one between two women,
the other two men) reported in the Bible in a positive light. They appear
to have progressed well beyond friendship. They were likely homosexual
affairs, although not necessarily sexually active relationships:
o Ruth 1:16, 2:10-11 between Ruth and Naomi
o 1 Samuel 18:1-4, 1 Samuel 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 between David
and Jonathan. (Some translations of the Bible distort the original Hebrew
text, particularly of 1 Samuel 20)
* It is the subject of endless debate whether St. Paul's prohibition of at
least some homosexual acts was:
o for the people in the vicinity of the Mediterranean during the 1st
Century CE, or
o for all people, forever.
One can argue that the ancient Israelites were surrounded by warlike
tribes. Their fertility was very important if the group was to survive.
The early Christian church was persecuted by the Roman government and by
the Jewish religious leaders. Homosexuals tend to have few children; thus
their presence would be met with opposition. At the end of the 20th
Century, conditions are the exact opposite; we are threatened by our
excessive fertility.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Useful References
1. For more information on the Sodom, Gommorah and Gibeah stories, see:
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s101014/HMPGE2.html#page2
2. For an analysis of some of the references to homosexuality in the
Bible, see: http://www.theshop.net/information/homo1.htm This is the home
page of Daniel A. Helminiak, Ph.D., author of the book: "What the Bible
Really Says about Homosexuality", Alamo Square Press, San Francisco CA
(1994)
3. "New American Bible", Catholic Book Publishing Co., (1986), P. 249
-
-
--- Steven L.
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "scott" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
25 Feb 2004 04:53:08 AM |
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"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-1702042003220001@h-68-164-227-246.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <gtrYb.8599$W74.8121@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Steven
Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
* More liberal Christians tend to look upon the Bible as containing many
transitional errors, whose verses should not necessarily all be taken at
their face value.
"If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you like - it
is not the Gospel you believe, but yourselves." - St. Agustine
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
25 Feb 2004 12:01:45 PM |
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"scott" <BySSpam@nonoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:A8mdnUglK5gJ46HdRVn-jQ@intertex.net...
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-1702042003220001@h-68-164-227-246.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <gtrYb.8599$W74.8121@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Steven
Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
* More liberal Christians tend to look upon the Bible as containing many
transitional errors, whose verses should not necessarily all be taken at
their face value.
"If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you like - it
is not the Gospel you believe, but yourselves." - St. Agustine
Small correction:
Should say, "... and reject what you *don't* like ..."
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
25 Feb 2004 12:59:13 PM |
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In article <dq5%b.114$S9.11@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>, "Fletch F. Fletch"
<notme31415@yahoo.com> wrote:
-"scott" <BySSpam@nonoSpam.com> wrote in message
-news:A8mdnUglK5gJ46HdRVn-jQ@intertex.net...
->
-> "Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
->
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-1702042003220001@h-68-164-227-246.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> > In article <gtrYb.8599$W74.8121@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
-Steven
-> > Litvintchouk <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
->
-> > * More liberal Christians tend to look upon the Bible as containing many
-> > transitional errors,
Which some Bibles do..that is why their are every generation or so "bew"
translations of the entire Bibe.
whose verses should not necessarily all be taken at their face value.
Becausee they are shouldn't be...do you hnestly believe the world stop
spinning on its axis as stated in the Bible?
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
->
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
27 Feb 2004 01:34:01 PM |
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:13 GMT,
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
spake thusly:
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
->
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.unlimitedglory.org/evcha3.htm
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
27 Feb 2004 05:40:39 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur6v30ts3hvctd3oru5u41ncvfovd3u127@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:13 GMT,
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
spake thusly:
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has
four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
->
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
Which leaves you to be the fool.
Slainte,
Fletch
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| User: "kw" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
27 Feb 2004 05:50:06 PM |
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In article <XzQ%b.2146$TF2.85@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
notme31415@yahoo.com says...
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur6v30ts3hvctd3oru5u41ncvfovd3u127@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:13 GMT,
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
spake thusly:
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has
four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
->
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
Which leaves you to be the fool.
It doesn't leave him like you at all.
.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
01 Mar 2004 07:11:59 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
The Bible condemns all people everywhere.
Funny how you conveniently ignore that significant point.
Are you perhaps pushing a hidden, worldly agenda?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
27 Feb 2004 06:00:28 PM |
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On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:40:39 GMT, "Fletch F. Fletch"
<notme31415@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur6v30ts3hvctd3oru5u41ncvfovd3u127@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:13 GMT,
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
spake thusly:
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has
four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
->
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
Which leaves you to be the fool.
The fool is the one who says there is no God, or
worships a god of their own creation, which is what
Ninure does..
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful
as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When
faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered,
neither love nor patience are in order... For
a defective life does not destroy Christendom,
but exercises it. However, defective doctrine
and false faith ruin everything. Therefore, when
these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy
are in order, but only anger, dispute and
destruction - to be sure, only with the Word
of God as our weapon." - Martin Luther
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Fritz" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
03 Mar 2004 01:10:25 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:40:39 GMT, "Fletch F. Fletch"
<notme31415@yahoo.com> spake thusly:
"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur6v30ts3hvctd3oru5u41ncvfovd3u127@4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:59:13 GMT,
RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com (Ninure Saunders)
spake thusly:
Do you really believe that the world is a sqaure or rectangle and has
four
corners?
Since the Bible doesn't record Eve having any children unti AFTER Abel
was dead, wjo was Cain afraid was going to kill him, and who or what did
he marry?
Do you believe the world will end EXACTLY as desc ribed in the Bible?
-<piggubacking>
And MOST conservatives, including the one's who claim that the Bible is
authorative and..or is the "Word of God" reject or ignore the
overwhelming majority of the teachings and commands of Jesus, and quiye a
bit of Paul's teachings as well.
The Bible condemns homosexuality and you are a heretic.
Which leaves you to be the fool.
The fool is the one who says there is no God, or
worships a god of their own creation, which is what
Ninure does..
But you're doing the same thing.
--
Fritz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religion = dictator.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
03 Mar 2004 06:24:42 PM |
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Fritz <fsmith@1sib2stq48bncnytpl.net> wrote:
Religion = dictator.
Jesus was a dictator????
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
03 Mar 2004 06:31:45 PM |
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Mark Fox wrote:
Fritz <fsmith@1sib2stq48bncnytpl.net> wrote:
Religion = dictator.
Jesus was a dictator????
Well, let's see... He suffered from meglomania, and ordered 12 men
around... A small time dictator to be sure.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
04 Mar 2004 07:58:24 PM |
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"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
Mark Fox wrote:
Fritz <fsmith@1sib2stq48bncnytpl.net> wrote:
Religion = dictator.
Jesus was a dictator????
Well, let's see... He suffered from meglomania, and ordered 12 men
around... A small time dictator to be sure.
I'm beginning to see what you mean.
His rules as a dictator were very strict: Love God with all your
heart and all your soul and all your mind and Love your neighbor as
yourself.
If you are angry at your neighbor then you are guilty of murder.
If you lust after your neighbors wife you are guilty of adultery.
These rules were probably more strict than anything Hitler had. But
interestingly Hitler's book is hard to find these days but the Bible
is in most houses in America and all of the hotel rooms I have ever
stayed in. Funny how we continue to celebrate this "dictator" 2000
years after his death.
Is there any other "dictator" in history who gave his own life for his
people? I can't remember one.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
04 Mar 2004 09:34:20 PM |
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Lo, many moons past, on 4 Mar 2004 17:58:24 -0800, a stranger called
by some (Mark Fox) came forth and told this tale
in alt.atheism
I'm beginning to see what you mean.
His rules as a dictator were very strict: Love God with all your
heart and all your soul and all your mind and Love your neighbor as
yourself.
To follow him you must hate your family.
Matthew 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her
mother in law.
Matthew 10:36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me:
and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
If you are angry at your neighbor then you are guilty of murder.
But anyone who doesn't want to listen to you? Be smug in the
knowledge that God will smite them for declining to listen
Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye
depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Matthew 10:15
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of
Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
If you lust after your neighbors wife you are guilty of adultery.
But it's OK for men to commit adultery.. if the wife does it? Dump
her.
Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving
for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and
whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
These rules were probably more strict than anything Hitler had. But
interestingly Hitler's book is hard to find these days but the Bible
is in most houses in America and all of the hotel rooms I have ever
stayed in. Funny how we continue to celebrate this "dictator" 2000
years after his death.
Hard to find Mein Kampf? Amazon will ship it inside 24 hours
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O23253E97
Can't wait that long? Read it online:
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/
Oh, and people still celebrate Adolf Hitler 59 years after his death,
and I've met neo-Nazis that believe that Hitler escaped Berlin.
As for the rules. Did Jesus require passbooks to get work, books that
could be pulled by one of his disciples without reason or appeal? Did
Jesus round up his enemies and work them to death? I suggest you put
down the Bible and read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and get
some sense of proportion.
Is there any other "dictator" in history who gave his own life for his
people? I can't remember one.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
05 Mar 2004 07:14:16 PM |
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Mark Fox wrote:
"Light Templar" <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote
Mark Fox wrote:
Fritz <fsmith@1sib2stq48bncnytpl.net> wrote:
Religion = dictator.
Jesus was a dictator????
Well, let's see... He suffered from meglomania, and ordered 12 men
around... A small time dictator to be sure.
I'm beginning to see what you mean.
His rules as a dictator were very strict: Love God with all your
heart and all your soul and all your mind and Love your neighbor as
yourself.
==>Matthew 10:34
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth;
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 22:36
"whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one"
Luke 19:27
"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them,
bring them here and slay them in my presence." -- L.
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