| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Albert" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 05:57:40 PM |
| Object: |
Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
I don't care how many marriage certificates or licenses you have, they don't
mean a thing because to God a marriage only is valid if it is between a MAN
and a WOMAN.
Those gay marriage certificates are about as valid as the surprise inside a
Cracker Jacks box.
"shrek" <shrek@at.the.net> wrote in message
news:qsv130dr5s7ehp4rmfpp9gn79fdq83s3r1@127.0.0.1...
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
SAN FRANCISCO - Dozens of same-sex couples lined up outside City Hall
in heavy rain early Monday, waiting for city offices to open so they
could join more than 1,700 other gay and lesbian couples who have
exchanged vows in the last few days.
Despite miserable weather and the Presidents Day holiday, many couples
camped out throughout the night. Though City Hall was scheduled to
open at 10 a.m., City Assessor Mabel Teng said she would try to open
her office earlier because of the demand.
Teng said many of the city workers who helped process the marriage
licenses throughout the holiday weekend were volunteering their time.
"I am just very honored to be involved in this significant and
history-making event," Teng said Monday morning. "I'm so proud to be
part of it."
Since San Francisco officials began issuing marriage licenses to
same-sex couples on Thursday, hundreds of gays and lesbians have wed -
many rushing to California from across the country.
While hundreds of same-sex marriages kept City Hall offices buzzing
through the weekend, conservative activists promised a relentless
legal challenge.
The Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund sued to block the same-sex
unions, and San Francisco Superior Court Judge James L. Warren has
scheduled a hearing Tuesday in the case. A second legal challenge
filed by a California group is also scheduled for a court hearing
Tuesday. Briefs were due Monday.
More than 1,700 marriage licenses have been issued to same-sex couples
since Thursday. Although some may choose to wait before actually
getting married, hundreds have already gone before city officials to
exchange vows and be declared "spouses for life," often in ceremonies
scattered around the interior of the ornate City Hall.
New Mayor Gavin Newsom touched off the wedding spree by ordering
officials to issue licenses to same-sex couples, declaring that he was
merely ensuring equal treatment of gays and lesbians. Newsom later
officiated personally at the weddings of his chief of staff and policy
director, both of whom married their longtime partners.
Critics have pointed to a ballot initiative approved by California
voters in 2000 that says the state will only recognize marriages
between a man and woman. Randy Thomasson, the director of the Campaign
for California Families, one of the groups challenging the marriages
in court, said last week that Newsom "can't play God."
On Sunday, a small group of protesters stood across the street from
City Hall holding signs protesting same-sex unions.
But the critics seemed to make little difference to most of the people
inside the building, where the mood was both busy and joyous. Many
clerks and sheriff's deputies volunteered their time to work over the
weekend.
Rich Walker and Brad Chilcoat, who have owned a home together in San
Francisco for the last three and a half years, exchanged their vows at
the top of City Hall's grand staircase, and said later that the city's
recognition of their union added special meaning.
"It's official. It's official," Walker said, displaying the marriage
certificate stamped with both their names.
The certificate, Chilcoat said, "moves us from second-class citizens
to equal status."
Walker, 50, and Chilcoat, 41, walked out of City Hall arm-in-arm,
cheered by the crowds of people waiting outside.
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
16 Feb 2004 10:23:52 PM |
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"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net:
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
God isn't valid because it's not recognized by Y-O-U-R-S T-R-U-L-Y.
Period.
I don't care how many marriage certificates or licenses you have, they
don't mean a thing because to God a marriage only is valid if it is
between a MAN and a WOMAN.
You could always mind your own damn business. No married couple relies on
you to determine whether their marriage is "valid" or not. No gay couple
needs to, either.
Those gay marriage certificates are about as valid as the surprise
inside a Cracker Jacks box.
Your religion is in the same sorry state--only the Cracker Jacks are stale.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Brought to you by the letter 'H'
Without it, you'd be eating doug nuts.
.
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| User: "I Am Your Clayton, Luke!" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 04:05:27 AM |
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"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Your god is a real and relevant as Humpty Dumpty. Just admit you want to
justify your hatred...stop being a coward and hiding behind your disgusting,
ignorant, blood thirsty book of lies and fairy tales.
.
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| User: "None" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
16 Feb 2004 08:27:33 PM |
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"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
I don't care how many marriage certificates or licenses you have, they
don't
mean a thing because to God a marriage only is valid if it is between a
MAN
and a WOMAN.
Ummm, where is THAT little deity-ism written? I'd love to see some
authority on that mouthful of crap!
Those gay marriage certificates are about as valid as the surprise inside
a
Cracker Jacks box.
Just like your birth certificate?
--
***/***/***/***/***/***/***/***
Shrub is a ONE TERMER!
Just Like His Daddy!
***/***/***/***/***/***/***/***
http://wonderofitall.com/
***/***/***
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
16 Feb 2004 10:37:36 PM |
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"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
The laws of the US are secular in nature.
--
Peacenik
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
16 Feb 2004 11:26:31 PM |
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x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
.
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| User: "No One" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
16 Feb 2004 11:43:55 PM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> writes:
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative? Why not look
the The Church of Satan for support?
Because, I presume, people who do not believe God exists also do not
believe Satan exists. There just aren't many Satanists trying to
convert them, so Satan doesn't get mentioned so often!
With a little makeup, Bush could easily pass as Satan. He should
consider that next Halloween. It would make a great photo op
just before the election. Be sure to notify the Democrats. :-)
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 10:40:59 AM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Because his tachings make LOGICAL sense and do not require godism to
understand. Even certain teachings in the Bible are rational and
non-religious in nature, such as "Thou shalt not kill" and the Golden Rule.
Despite this, there ar a great many religious gays and straights fighting
alongside us atheistic straights and gays for equal rights.
--
Peacenik
.
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| User: "Steven Litvintchouk" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 04:14:54 PM |
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Peacenik wrote:
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Because his tachings make LOGICAL sense and do not require godism to
understand.
That's not what Martin Luther King said: "If we are wrong, then God
Almighty is wrong."
It's also not what our own Declaration of Independence says either:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people
to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,
and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a
decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should
declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Our Founding Fathers believed that human rights were not an entitlement
to be granted the people by a government, however benevolent that
government. Rather, those rights came from our Creator and the best
thing a government could do is not interfere with those God-given rights.
-- Steven L.
-- Steven L.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 11:57:59 AM |
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x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:vurYb.49275$jk2.117246@attbi_s53...
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Because his tachings make LOGICAL sense and do not require godism to
understand.
And the gay teachings don't make logical sense.
MLK has been made a saint by the church. Obviously he was divinely
inspired or very special. Have you read books on him?
Even certain teachings in the Bible are rational and
non-religious in nature, such as "Thou shalt not kill" and the Golden
Rule.
Yes, and another rational biblical teaching says: Matthew 19:4 "Haven't you
read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and
female, 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother
and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? 6So they are
no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not
separate."
And the tangible produce of their one fleshiness is all of us, despite the
relationship of the parents. Can/do gays and lesbians show tangible human
evidence of their "one fleshiness" w/each other???
NO! Not one this planet! Never have! Never will! So, face it!!!
Despite this, there ar a great many religious gays and straights fighting
alongside us atheistic straights and gays for equal rights.
Like me! I agree gays should have equal rights, just not the right to
marry.
Everyone has constraints and boundaries. Allowing a sinner to live is
justified biblically. Legitimizing their sin isn't. End of story.
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 12:34:27 PM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in
news:HCsYb.7539$WW3.4174@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:vurYb.49275$jk2.117246@attbi_s53...
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in
message news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by
G-O-D. Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man
like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Because his tachings make LOGICAL sense and do not require godism to
understand.
And the gay teachings don't make logical sense.
How so? What is illogical about wanting the same rights as other people?
MLK has been made a saint by the church. Obviously he was divinely
inspired or very special. Have you read books on him?
Lots of people are made into "saints". It's good PR for the churches.
Show me where there is really something out there causing "divine
inspiration".
Even certain teachings in the Bible are rational and
non-religious in nature, such as "Thou shalt not kill" and the Golden
Rule.
Yes, and another rational biblical teaching says: Matthew 19:4
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator
'made them male and female, 5and said, 'For this reason a man will
leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two
will become one flesh? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore
what God has joined together, let man not separate."
And the tangible produce of their one fleshiness is all of us, despite
the relationship of the parents. Can/do gays and lesbians show
tangible human evidence of their "one fleshiness" w/each other???
NO! Not one this planet! Never have! Never will! So, face it!!!
Oh, be careful, your bigotry is showing through. But we've come to
expect that from the bible thumpers.
Despite this, there ar a great many religious gays and straights
fighting alongside us atheistic straights and gays for equal rights.
Like me! I agree gays should have equal rights, just not the right to
marry.
WOW. A complete contradiction in one sentence.
Everyone has constraints and boundaries. Allowing a sinner to live is
justified biblically. Legitimizing their sin isn't. End of story.
Fortuately, this country isn't run by according to biblical laws. So
unless you can show where the Constitution allows for some people to have
more freedom than others, or that the government has the authority or the
requirement to enforce biblical laws, you are going to have to learn to
live with legitimzing same sex marriages. It looks pretty much
inevitable.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 12:56:33 PM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:HCsYb.7539$WW3.4174@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:vurYb.49275$jk2.117246@attbi_s53...
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by
G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Because his tachings make LOGICAL sense and do not require godism to
understand.
And the gay teachings don't make logical sense.
MLK has been made a saint by the church. Obviously he was divinely
inspired or very special. Have you read books on him?
Even certain teachings in the Bible are rational and
non-religious in nature, such as "Thou shalt not kill" and the Golden
Rule.
Yes, and another rational biblical teaching says: Matthew 19:4 "Haven't
you
read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and
female, 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother
and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? 6So they are
no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man
not
separate."
And the tangible produce of their one fleshiness is all of us, despite the
relationship of the parents. Can/do gays and lesbians show tangible human
evidence of their "one fleshiness" w/each other???
NO! Not one this planet! Never have! Never will! So, face it!!!
Despite this, there ar a great many religious gays and straights
fighting
alongside us atheistic straights and gays for equal rights.
Like me! I agree gays should have equal rights, just not the right to
marry.
Nice use of the word 'just'. Nothing like being together with someone for
40 or 50 years and still not being next of kin. I guess that is just
nothing.
Everyone has constraints and boundaries. Allowing a sinner to live is
justified biblically. Legitimizing their sin isn't. End of story.
End of story if you refuse to think and just stick with the Bible and
dogman, absolutely. Of course, we don't all do that.
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 05:25:37 AM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
If he doesn't believe in the existence of God, chances are pretty good that
he doesn't believe in the existence of Satan either.
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 07:01:25 AM |
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x-no-archive:yes
Light Templar <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message
news:RSmYb.7182$tL3.3235@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
If he doesn't believe in the existence of God, chances are pretty good
that
he doesn't believe in the existence of Satan either.
Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
.
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 04:10:48 PM |
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"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:FgoYb.7311$tL3.2779@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Light Templar <I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote in message
news:RSmYb.7182$tL3.3235@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> wrote in message
news:bChYb.7018$WW3.382@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by
G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
If he doesn't believe in the existence of God, chances are pretty good
that
he doesn't believe in the existence of Satan either.
Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
Do you think that MLK was the only civil rights leader?
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of
his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
I've heard that the moon was constructed of green cheese, of course, that's
not true either.
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 12:43:05 PM |
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Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of
his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
Why is it godless? Let me guess. Because you have the one true religion
with the one true God.
MLK was more than just a God fearing man. After all, the south was full of
God fearing men supporting segregation. He saw the truth of their bigotry.
They saw nothing wrong.
Slainte,
Fletch
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| User: "Steven Litvintchouk" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 04:19:53 PM |
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Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of
his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
Why is it godless? Let me guess. Because you have the one true religion
with the one true God.
MLK was more than just a God fearing man. After all, the south was full of
God fearing men supporting segregation. He saw the truth of their bigotry.
I remember well how MLK phrased it too: "If we are wrong, then God
Almighty is wrong."
MLK's argument for civil rights was that civil rights are God-given.
And that is what made it increasingly harder and harder for white
Christians to deny the truth of what he was saying without spitting on
their own belief in God.
If MLK had gone before an audience and said: "God doesn't exist, but
who needs God in this struggle anyway?" I can assure you that he would
have gotten absolutely nowhere.
Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
-- Steven L.
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 04:35:09 PM |
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"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:dswYb.9039$W74.1062@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of
his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
Why is it godless? Let me guess. Because you have the one true
religion
with the one true God.
MLK was more than just a God fearing man. After all, the south was full
of
God fearing men supporting segregation. He saw the truth of their
bigotry.
I remember well how MLK phrased it too: "If we are wrong, then God
Almighty is wrong."
MLK's argument for civil rights was that civil rights are God-given.
And that is what made it increasingly harder and harder for white
Christians to deny the truth of what he was saying without spitting on
their own belief in God.
If MLK had gone before an audience and said: "God doesn't exist, but
who needs God in this struggle anyway?" I can assure you that he would
have gotten absolutely nowhere.
I'll buy that. But it is a shame.
Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
I suspect this vast majority shrinks just a little each year.
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Steven Litvintchouk" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
18 Feb 2004 09:46:23 AM |
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Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:dswYb.9039$W74.1062@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Of course you skip to what's convenient to answer.
So, I again I ask:"Then why use the teachings and experiences of
a God fearing man like Martin Luther King to
support his GODLESS initiative?"
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of
his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
Why is it godless? Let me guess. Because you have the one true
religion
with the one true God.
MLK was more than just a God fearing man. After all, the south was full
of
God fearing men supporting segregation. He saw the truth of their
bigotry.
I remember well how MLK phrased it too: "If we are wrong, then God
Almighty is wrong."
MLK's argument for civil rights was that civil rights are God-given.
And that is what made it increasingly harder and harder for white
Christians to deny the truth of what he was saying without spitting on
their own belief in God.
If MLK had gone before an audience and said: "God doesn't exist, but
who needs God in this struggle anyway?" I can assure you that he would
have gotten absolutely nowhere.
I'll buy that. But it is a shame.
Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
I suspect this vast majority shrinks just a little each year.
The polls show otherwise.
-- Steven L.
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
|
| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
18 Feb 2004 03:21:46 PM |
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Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
I suspect this vast majority shrinks just a little each year.
The polls show otherwise.
I wonder how clever the pollsters were in devising a way for people to
answer as honestly as possible. After all, admitting atheism can be a tough
thing, even to oneself. I haven't believed in God or my Catholic faith for
years and years. But I had trouble calling myself an atheist. And still I
don't admit this to certain family members, who would be crushed, or certain
friends, for fear of offending. Inculcation at a young age is a powerful
thing, as is family pressure.
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Steven Litvintchouk" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
18 Feb 2004 06:08:33 PM |
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Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
I suspect this vast majority shrinks just a little each year.
The polls show otherwise.
I wonder how clever the pollsters were in devising a way for people to
answer as honestly as possible.
There have been many polls on this issue, by many different pollsters.
The results are pretty consistent. They can't all be off-base.
Fully 92 percent of Americans say they believe in God, 85 percent in
heaven and 82 percent in miracles, according to the latest FOX News
poll. Though belief in God has remained at about the same level, belief
in the devil has increased slightly over the last few years — from 63
percent in 1997 to 71 percent today.
The national poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation (search),
shows that about a third of Americans believe in ghosts (34 percent) and
an equal number in UFOs (34 percent), and about a quarter accept things
like astrology (search) (29 percent), reincarnation (search) (25
percent) and witches (24 percent).
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,99945,00.html
Minnesotans' reliance on a higher power is steadfast. An overwhelming
percentage of the state, 78 percent, have a definite belief in God.
Another 13 percent lean toward believing there is a god, according to a
Minnesota Poll taken in early December
http://www.startribune.com/stories/614/4282589.html
This survey found that 79% of Americans believe there is a God, and that
66% are absolutely certain this is true. Only 9% do not believe in God,
while a further 12% are not sure. 91% of blacks believe in God, as
compared with 78% of whites.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408
more than eight in 10 Americans agree that "even today, miracles are
performed by the power of God," according to a survey conducted last
October by the Princeton Survey Research Associates for the Pew Research
Center. Slightly more than one in three adults—36 percent—say they
personally "experienced or witnessed" what they considered a miracle,
according to a CBS News poll last year.
Heaven isn't just in your mind: It's a real place, say 88 percent of a
national sample of adults interviewed in 1997 by Opinion Dynamics for
Fox News. A more telling commentary on our beliefs is the finding that
far fewer Americans—71 percent—believe in hell.
Americans are even less certain about God's sex. An ABC News survey in
1997 found that fewer than half of those interviewed—44 percent—believed
that God was a man, while just as many—43 percent—said God didn't have a
gender. Only 1 percent thought God was a woman, while the remainder
weren't sure.
Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is
one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after
survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine
in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in
God. A Gallup Organization survey for CNN and USA Today last December
found much the same thing: Nearly nine in 10—86 percent—said they
believed in God, while another 8 percent said they believe in some form
of "Universal spirit or higher power."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm
I think it's just fine that most Americans believe in God. But I really
have to wonder when so many Americans believe that God is a man!!! I
mean, where is this man, in Low Earth Orbit?
And the fact that one-third of Americans say they believe in ghosts
really makes you wonder.
-- Steven L.
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
18 Feb 2004 06:49:44 PM |
|
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"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:58TYb.10948$hm4.7930@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:
Blacks and whites have disagreed about a lot of things. But one thing
they have in common is that the vast majority of them believe in God.
I suspect this vast majority shrinks just a little each year.
The polls show otherwise.
I wonder how clever the pollsters were in devising a way for people to
answer as honestly as possible.
There have been many polls on this issue, by many different pollsters.
The results are pretty consistent. They can't all be off-base.
Fully 92 percent of Americans say they believe in God, 85 percent in
heaven and 82 percent in miracles, according to the latest FOX News
poll. Though belief in God has remained at about the same level, belief
in the devil has increased slightly over the last few years — from 63
percent in 1997 to 71 percent today.
The national poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation (search),
shows that about a third of Americans believe in ghosts (34 percent) and
an equal number in UFOs (34 percent), and about a quarter accept things
like astrology (search) (29 percent), reincarnation (search) (25
percent) and witches (24 percent).
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,99945,00.html
Minnesotans' reliance on a higher power is steadfast. An overwhelming
percentage of the state, 78 percent, have a definite belief in God.
Another 13 percent lean toward believing there is a god, according to a
Minnesota Poll taken in early December
http://www.startribune.com/stories/614/4282589.html
This survey found that 79% of Americans believe there is a God, and that
66% are absolutely certain this is true. Only 9% do not believe in God,
while a further 12% are not sure. 91% of blacks believe in God, as
compared with 78% of whites.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408
more than eight in 10 Americans agree that "even today, miracles are
performed by the power of God," according to a survey conducted last
October by the Princeton Survey Research Associates for the Pew Research
Center. Slightly more than one in three adults—36 percent—say they
personally "experienced or witnessed" what they considered a miracle,
according to a CBS News poll last year.
Heaven isn't just in your mind: It's a real place, say 88 percent of a
national sample of adults interviewed in 1997 by Opinion Dynamics for
Fox News. A more telling commentary on our beliefs is the finding that
far fewer Americans—71 percent—believe in hell.
Americans are even less certain about God's sex. An ABC News survey in
1997 found that fewer than half of those interviewed—44 percent—believed
that God was a man, while just as many—43 percent—said God didn't have a
gender. Only 1 percent thought God was a woman, while the remainder
weren't sure.
Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is
one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after
survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine
in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in
God. A Gallup Organization survey for CNN and USA Today last December
found much the same thing: Nearly nine in 10—86 percent—said they
believed in God, while another 8 percent said they believe in some form
of "Universal spirit or higher power."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm
I think it's just fine that most Americans believe in God. But I really
have to wonder when so many Americans believe that God is a man!!! I
mean, where is this man, in Low Earth Orbit?
And the fact that one-third of Americans say they believe in ghosts
really makes you wonder.
Interesting stuff, if a little disappointing. People will believe anything.
Most have no clue how to think critically.
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 11:25:38 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:01:25 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
I have heard MLK committed adultery. Perhaps, and all have sinned..
But at least MLK didn't burlesque it before the eyes of the nation and
certainly wasn't trying to change the laws to make that immoral part of his
character legitimate. Gays need to follow his lead, in that respect.
You're kidding. Dr. King was trying to change laws in a dozen states!
He was repeatedly arrested, his followers had dogs set upon them, all
because they were defying laws that were discrimitory.
According to white Southerns of the time, blacks being "upity" was
immoral and socially wrong. They were wrong, and so are you.
This is a free country. Freedom means everyone, not just the socially
acceptable,
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 11:22:44 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:26:31 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
Have you ever read Dr. King's speech at the Lincoln Memorial?
http://www.usconstitution.net/dream.html
Yes, he references the Bible. But not in a way to insist that it be
used as law, but to motivate to work for change. To work for the
freedom of all Americans. Here's the last, famous, paragraph of that
speech:
"And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it
ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every
city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are
free at last!""
In San Francisco, they were free at last.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 11:59:25 AM |
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x-no-archive:yes
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:loi430d8q4su1jr41hn5kcsnq89qjm06vh@4ax.com...
Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:26:31 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
U mean the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King?
Lol! Why is he titled a REVEREND???
I rest my case.
.
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| User: "Fletch F. Fletch" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 01:02:08 PM |
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|
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
U mean the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King?
Lol! Why is he titled a REVEREND???
I rest my case.
What case? You didn't even make a point. You asked too silly questions and
laughed. You do seem to be implying that a reverend cannot advocate a form
of government other than theocracy. Surely, you know this is crap. So,
what was your case?
Slainte,
Fletch
.
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 01:48:02 PM |
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"Fletch F. Fletch" <notme31415@yahoo.com> writes:
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
U mean the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King?
Lol! Why is he titled a REVEREND???
I rest my case.
What case? You didn't even make a point. You asked too silly questions and
laughed. You do seem to be implying that a reverend cannot advocate a form
of government other than theocracy. Surely, you know this is crap. So,
what was your case?
I'm sure this dweeb doesn't know that the head of Americans United
for Separation of Church and State is Reverend Barry Lynn.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 06:35:17 PM |
|
|
Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:59:25 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
x-no-archive:yes
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:loi430d8q4su1jr41hn5kcsnq89qjm06vh@4ax.com...
Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:26:31 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Wyle Coyote" <a@d.d> came forth and told this tale in
alt.atheism
x-no-archive:yes
Peacenik <criskity999@com999cast.removeallnines.net> wrote in message
news:kUgYb.44793$yE5.193862@attbi_s54...
"Albert" <notalberttrue313@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SJcYb.9017$fE4.4178@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
Gay marriages aren't valid because they are not recognized by G-O-D.
Period.
Nothing is recognized by god, since god doesn't exist.
Then why use the teachings and experiences of a God fearing man like
Martin
Luther King to support your GODLESS initiative?
Why not look the The Church of Satan for support?
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
U mean the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King?
Lol! Why is he titled a REVEREND???
I rest my case.
Because he was an ordained minister, Baptist as I recall.
Care to address my points? Here, they are again:
Dr. King never suggested that the US should be a theocracy. Just that
Afrcian Americans use the nonviolent methods pioneered by the Mahatma
Ghandi to combat racism in the US. Ghandi was, of course, a Hindu.
Have you ever read Dr. King's speech at the Lincoln Memorial?
http://www.usconstitution.net/dream.html
Yes, he references the Bible. But not in a way to insist that it be
used as law, but to motivate to work for change. To work for the
freedom of all Americans. Here's the last, famous, paragraph of that
speech:
"And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it
ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every
city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are
free at last!""
In San Francisco, they were free at last.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
17 Feb 2004 07:04:39 PM |
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Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:bnc530pd1nnastupm2qkgorvm940s7crtg@4ax.com:
<snip>
"And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it
ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every
city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are
free at last!""
In San Francisco, they were free at last.
Is this the gays' "Rosa Parks" moment? Or was that Stonewall?
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"You should realize Usenet is a strange reality where you see people
beating up a patch of grass where nine years ago there used to be a
horse. " 01 July 2003, talk.origins
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
18 Feb 2004 01:03:20 PM |
|
|
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:04:39 GMT, a stranger
called by some Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com>
came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:bnc530pd1nnastupm2qkgorvm940s7crtg@4ax.com:
<snip>
"And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it
ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every
city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are
free at last!""
In San Francisco, they were free at last.
Is this the gays' "Rosa Parks" moment? Or was that Stonewall?
The GLBT rights movement has had a couple of seminal moments (NPI).
Stonewall was probably the "Rosa Parks" moment. The White Night Riot,
and now the Valentine Day Marriage Blitz.
I wish you all could have seen it. It was utterly amazing. I saw one
SFPD officer get married to her sweetheart by the SFPD Chaplain who
had come down on a Sunday in his dress uniform, and she had an escort
of about 20 officers in full uniform. I saw families in tears of joy,
people dancing out of city hall, people donating wedding dresses,
tuxes, food, camping gear.. memebers of the Symphony showed up and
megan playing music in the rotunda.. and everywhere you turned
someone was getting married. The energy was electric.
See for yourselves:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/document.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/02/18/gaywedgallery.DTL
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Keenan Clay Wilkie" |
|
| Title: Re: 2,000 gay marriages in SF by tonight! |
19 Feb 2004 02:04:39 PM |
|
|
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> writes:
Lo, many moons past, on Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:04:39 GMT, a stranger
called by some Doc Smartass <gekiskivviesdo@astroboyskivviesmail.com>
came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:bnc530pd1nnastupm2qkgorvm940s7crtg@4ax.com:
<snip>
"And when this happens, When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it
ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every
city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children,
black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics,
will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are
free at last!""
In San Francisco, they were free at last.
Is this the gays' "Rosa Parks" moment? Or was that Stonewall?
The GLBT rights movement has had a couple of seminal moments (NPI).
Stonewall was probably the "Rosa Parks" moment. The White Night Riot,
and now the Valentine Day Marriage Blitz.
I wish you all could have seen it. It was utterly amazing. I saw one
SFPD officer get married to her sweetheart by the SFPD Chaplain who
had come down on a Sunday in his dress uniform, and she had an escort
of about 20 officers in full uniform. I saw families in tears of joy,
people dancing out of city hall, people donating wedding dresses,
tuxes, food, camping gear.. memebers of the Symphony showed up and
megan playing music in the rotunda.. and everywhere you turned
someone was getting married. The energy was electric.
See for yourselves:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/document.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/02/18/gaywedgallery.DTL
I do wish that I could see it. I heard from a friend via ICQ that he'd
spent an entire day waiting, except that he and his lover had arrived late
and were unable to be married on that day, so they had to come back the
next day at an incredibly early hour. They were, fortunately, successful
though he reported that he was utterly exhausted by the time that he got
home. He made it sound like an incredibly emotional and exciting event.
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
Christopher Byron (cbyron@nypost.com) thinks that a video game is
"10,000 times worse" than child molestation: http://tinyurl.com/37j8f
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29
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