| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Patriotboy" |
| Date: |
26 Jul 2003 12:59:31 AM |
| Object: |
Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
On 25 Jul 2003, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted this:
You're a dishonest liar.
We authorized shipments of biological materials to Iraq and sold
them weapons. This, according to you, isn't shipping and selling
weapons to Iraq..
Bonde always ignores the cluster bombs.
"While Rumsfeld was talking to Hussein and Aziz in Baghdad, Iraqi
diplomats and weapons merchants were fanning out across Western
capitals for a diplomatic charm offensive-*****-arms buying spree. In
Washington, the key figure was the Iraqi chargé d'affaires, Nizar
Hamdoon, a fluent English speaker who impressed Reagan administration
officials as one of the most skillful lobbyists in town.
"He arrived with a blue shirt and a white tie, straight out of the
mafia," recalled Geoffrey Kemp, a Middle East specialist in the
Reagan White House. "Within six months, he was hosting suave dinner
parties at his residence, which he parlayed into a formidable
lobbying effort. He was particularly effective with the American
Jewish community."
One of Hamdoon's favorite props, says Kemp, was a green Islamic scarf
allegedly found on the body of an Iranian soldier. The scarf was
decorated with a map of the Middle East showing a series of arrows
pointing toward Jerusalem. Hamdoon used to "parade the scarf" to
conferences and congressional hearings as proof that an Iranian
victory over Iraq would result in "Israel becoming a victim along
with the Arabs."
According to a sworn court affidavit prepared by Teicher in 1995, the
United States "actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying
the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing military
intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring
third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq had the military
weaponry required." Teicher said in the affidavit that former CIA
director William Casey used a Chilean company, Cardoen, to supply
Iraq with cluster bombs that could be used to disrupt the Iranian
human wave attacks. Teicher refuses to discuss the affidavit.
At the same time the Reagan administration was facilitating the
supply of weapons and military components to Baghdad, it was
attempting to cut off supplies to Iran under "Operation Staunch."
Those efforts were largely successful, despite the glaring anomaly of
the 1986 Iran-contra scandal when the White House publicly admitted
trading arms for hostages, in violation of the policy that the United
States was trying to impose on the rest of the world.
Although U.S. arms manufacturers were not as deeply involved as
German or British companies in selling weaponry to Iraq, the Reagan
administration effectively turned a blind eye to the export of "dual
use" items such as chemical precursors and steel tubes that can have
military and civilian applications. According to several former
officials, the State and Commerce departments promoted trade in such
items as a way to boost U.S. exports and acquire political leverage
over Hussein.
When United Nations weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq after
the 1991 Gulf War, they compiled long lists of chemicals, missile
components, and computers from American suppliers, including such
household names as Union Carbide and Honeywell, which were being used
for military purposes.
A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee turned up dozens
of biological agents shipped to Iraq during the mid-'80s under
license from the Commerce Department, including various strains of
anthrax, subsequently identified by the Pentagon as a key component
of the Iraqi biological warfare program. The Commerce Department also
approved the export of insecticides to Iraq, despite widespread
suspicions that they were being used for chemical warfare.
The fact that Iraq was using chemical weapons was hardly a secret. In
February 1984, an Iraqi military spokesman effectively acknowledged
their use by issuing a chilling warning to Iran. "The invaders should
know that for every harmful insect, there is an insecticide capable
of annihilating it . . . and Iraq possesses this annihilation
insecticide."
Chemicals Kill Kurds
In late 1987, the Iraqi air force began using chemical agents against
Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq that had formed a loose
alliance with Iran, according to State Department reports. The
attacks, which were part of a "scorched earth" strategy to eliminate
rebel-controlled villages, provoked outrage on Capitol Hill and
renewed demands for sanctions against Iraq. The State Department and
White House were also outraged -- but not to the point of doing
anything that might seriously damage relations with Baghdad.
"The U.S.-Iraqi relationship is . . . important to our long-term
political and economic objectives," Assistant Secretary of State
Richard W. Murphy wrote in a September 1988 memorandum that addressed
the chemical weapons question. "We believe that economic sanctions
will be useless or counterproductive to influence the Iraqis."
Bush administration spokesmen have cited Hussein's use of chemical
weapons "against his own people" -- and particularly the March 1988
attack on the Kurdish village of Halabjah -- to bolster their
argument that his regime presents a "grave and gathering danger" to
the United States.
The Iraqis continued to use chemical weapons against the Iranians
until the end of the Iran-Iraq war. A U.S. air force intelligence
officer, Rick Francona, reported finding widespread use of Iraqi
nerve gas when he toured the Al Faw peninsula in southern Iraq in the
summer of 1988, after its recapture by the Iraqi army. The
battlefield was littered with atropine injectors used by panicky
Iranian troops as an antidote against Iraqi nerve gas attacks.
Far from declining, the supply of U.S. military intelligence to Iraq
actually expanded in 1988, according to a 1999 book by Francona,
"Ally to Adversary: an Eyewitness Account of Iraq's Fall from Grace."
Informed sources said much of the battlefield intelligence was
channeled to the Iraqis by the CIA office in Baghdad.
Although U.S. export controls to Iraq were tightened up in the late
1980s, there were still many loopholes. In December 1988, Dow
Chemical sold $1.5 million of pesticides to Iraq, despite U.S.
government concerns that they could be used as chemical warfare
agents. An Export-Import Bank official reported in a memorandum that
he could find "no reason" to stop the sale, despite evidence that the
pesticides were "highly toxic" to humans and would cause death "from
asphyxiation."
The U.S. policy of cultivating Hussein as a moderate and reasonable
Arab leader continued right up until he invaded Kuwait in August
1990, documents show. When the then-U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, April
Glaspie, met with Hussein on July 25, 1990, a week before the Iraqi
attack on Kuwait, she assured him that Bush "wanted better and deeper
relations," according to an Iraqi transcript of the conversation.
"President Bush is an intelligent man," the ambassador told Hussein,
referring to the father of the current president. "He is not going to
declare an economic war against Iraq."
"Everybody was wrong in their assessment of Saddam," said Joe Wilson,
Glaspie's former deputy at the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, and the last
U.S. official to meet with Hussein. "Everybody in the Arab world told
us that the best way to deal with Saddam was to develop a set of
economic and commercial relationships that would have the effect of
moderating his behavior. History will demonstrate that this was a
miscalculation."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52241-
2002Dec29?language=printer
--
Another [C-SPAN] caller made the point more angrily
'For every American who gets killed, they should take
20 Iraquians (his term) and hang them from lamp posts.'
This, he explained, is how the Klingons from Star Trek
would handle it.
-- William Greider
The General's Store
Gen. JC Christian, Patriot mechandise
Now featuring Armed Fetus Ware
http://www.cafeshops.com/patriotboy
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 10:20:29 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 05:59:31 +0000, Patriotboy wrote:
On 25 Jul 2003, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted this:
You're a dishonest liar.
We authorized shipments of biological materials to Iraq and sold them
weapons. This, according to you, isn't shipping and selling weapons to
Iraq..
Bonde always ignores the cluster bombs.
Actually, in one post to me, he appears to acknowledge we sold them to
Iraq, justifies selling them to Iraq, then goes right back to insisting we
never sold weapons to Iraq...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"In order to achieve the most noble accomplishments, the leader
may have to 'enter into evil.' This is the chilling insight
that has made Machiavelli so feared, admired and challenging
we are rotten....It's true that we can achieve greatness if,
and only if, we are properly led."
- Michael Ledeen, neoconservative leader
.
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| User: "Bill Bonde" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 08:53:46 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 05:59:31 +0000, Patriotboy wrote:
On 25 Jul 2003, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted this:
You're a dishonest liar.
We authorized shipments of biological materials to Iraq and sold them
weapons. This, according to you, isn't shipping and selling weapons to
Iraq..
Bonde always ignores the cluster bombs.
Actually, in one post to me, he appears to acknowledge we sold them to
Iraq, justifies selling them to Iraq, then goes right back to insisting we
never sold weapons to Iraq...
The cluster bombs were not US weapons. I didn't say we never sold any
weapons to Iraq. I said that our involvement was nothing compared to
that of the French, Germans and Russians. Our involvement was due to our
very real fear that Iraq would be overrun. That was unacceptable.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 11:23:04 PM |
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:48:14 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
JTEM wrote:
"Bill Bonde" <sstderr@backpacker.com> wrote
The cluster bombs were not US weapons.
"The U.S. only supplied them to Iraq. That's all."
Damn, you are a filthy troll....
I'm not trolling, I'm explaining you the facts that actually happened but
you are a usenutter.
You went after me for saying that we armed Saddam then justified the
arming of Saddam.
You're a prize you are. Attack someone for something then when they pull
up evidence it happened, you got excuses for why the thing you said didn't
happen was the right thing to happen.
And, interestingly enough, you are *awfully quick to justify giving
dangerous materials to Hussein when we knew he was likely to use them...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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| User: "Bill Bonde" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
28 Jul 2003 10:37:07 PM |
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Patriotboy wrote:
On 25 Jul 2003, "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted this:
You're a dishonest liar.
We authorized shipments of biological materials to Iraq and sold
them weapons. This, according to you, isn't shipping and selling
weapons to Iraq..
Bonde always ignores the cluster bombs.
I'm trying to figure out how the US assisting Saddam in such directed
and minor ways gets the US blamed for arming Iraq when you can't even
find any US made weapons in Iraq other than those we are using against
Saddam. OTOH, finding German, French and Russian made munitions is
trivial over there. Now, which country is most to blame for arming Iraq?
to supply
Iraq with cluster bombs that could be used to disrupt the Iranian
human wave attacks.
Think about this. The US doesn't approve of the use of chemical weapons.
Saddam needs to have a way to disrupt the human wave attacks. Cluster
bombs are an acceptable way to do this. The US assists Iraq in getting
cluster munitions. This is wrong exactly how? It is proof that the US
was trying to stop the use of chemical weapons by Saddam by assisting
with alternatives.
Although U.S. arms manufacturers were not as deeply involved as
German or British companies in selling weaponry to Iraq, the Reagan
administration effectively turned a blind eye to the export of "dual
use" items such as chemical precursors and steel tubes that can have
military and civilian applications. According to several former
officials, the State and Commerce departments promoted trade in such
items as a way to boost U.S. exports and acquire political leverage
over Hussein.
The Commerce department is well known for wanting to allow the export of
anything to anyone. This was a problem then and during subsequent
administrations.
.
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