| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill Bonde" |
| Date: |
26 Jul 2003 08:45:58 PM |
| Object: |
Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:39:25 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:32:02 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:19:54 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:52:39 -0700, Jonathan Wiles wrote:
It remains a fact that the terrorists who were responsible for
September 11 are the children of the same "church of violence"
that brought up Saddam and that supports many other similar
dicators.
Then why did we support and build up Saddam?
We didn't. Show us the American weapons that Saddam had.
Rewriting history now are we?
We aren't rewriting history. You are. Oh, and answer the question:
Where are the US made weapons that you claim Reagan sold/gave to
Saddam?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html
"The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or
German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents,
These were biosamples available to pretty much anyone with a letter head
and a few bucks back then. Misrepresenting this as the US giving Saddam
bioweapons is a lie.
including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons;
Iraq was able to get pesticides which could be turned into bioweapons
although pretty crude ones. The US never gave chemical weapons to Iraq and
cautioned Iraq about using the weapons it had created.
and cluster
bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile, the report says."
Cluster bombs were sold to Iraq to counter the human wave attacks that
Iran was using against them which the US felt could ultimately end up with
Iran overrunning Iraq. It is interesting that you are down to a few
cluster munitions sold by the US to Iraq. Want to detail what the French,
Germans and Russians did for Iraq?
Ah, I see.
You're a dishonest liar.
No, you are the dishonest liar. I'm stating the facts as they actually
happened.
We authorized shipments of biological materials to Iraq
Biosamples as I told you before. They were not bioweapons. They were
available to pretty much anyone with the money and a letterhead. ATCC
and CDC were not very secure with this stuff then. Of course no one else
was either. Saddam got biosamples from a French company too.
and sold them
weapons. This, according to you, isn't shipping and selling weapons to
Iraq...
I asked you to show us the weapons the Saddam had that he got from us.
You can't seem to find anything except a claim that a front company sold
cluster munitions to Iraq. That's hardly arming Iraq compared to France,
Germany and Russia.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 10:57:42 PM |
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"Bill Bonde" <sstderr@backpacker.com> wrote
I'm stating the facts as they actually happened.
That would have been a first, if you hadn't lied like
a carpet.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 08:17:55 PM |
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:45:58 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
Biosamples as I told you before. They were not bioweapons. They were
available to pretty much anyone with the money and a letterhead.
Again, you're just freaking lying.
I notice you ignored the laundry list(s) of materials we sold, authorized,
or helped Iraq obtain that I and others have posted to focus on this
quibble.
"Between 1985 and 1990, the U.S. government approved 771 licenses for
exports of biological agents, high-tech equipment and military items to
Iraq, reported Representative Sam Gejdenson (D-Connecticut) in 1991. Those
exports were valued at $1.5 billion, said Gejdenson, who was the chairman
of the House Subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs Committee at the time."
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/18/features-crogan2.php
771 licenses of biological agents, equipment, and military items. And you
want me to believe these things were available to "anyone with money and a
letterhead?"
If THAT is true, it's worse. It's criminal and the people responsible
(including Cheney and Rumsfeld) should be prosecuted.
"Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing death, were:
* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain,
spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic
illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.
"Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human and
bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents. 'These
biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of
reproduction,' the Senate report stated."
"The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the
precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological
warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment."
https://www.theprogressive.org/0901/anth0498.html
If all THAT was available to "anyone with money and a letterhead" then
no wonder there's a panic over terrorism...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 5 More GI's Killed by Bush's Big Lie |
26 Jul 2003 10:04:55 PM |
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:37:03 -0700, Bill Bonde wrote:
Companies wanted to export to Iraq and they were able to export things.
Some got in trouble for this. It is silly to claim that Reagan wanted all
these exports.
Interesting how easily you justify shipping biologically active materials
to a dictator known to weaponize them and even use them against his own
people.
"Between 1985 and 1990, the U.S. government approved 771 licenses for
exports of biological agents, high-tech equipment and military items to
Iraq, reported Representative Sam Gejdenson (D-Connecticut) in 1991.
Those exports were valued at $1.5 billion, said Gejdenson, who was the
chairman of the House Subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs Committee at
the time."
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/18/features-crogan2.php
771 licenses of biological agents, equipment, and military items. And
you want me to believe these things were available to "anyone with money
and a letterhead?"
It's true.
If THAT is true, it's worse. It's criminal and the people responsible
(including Cheney and Rumsfeld) should be prosecuted.
It was true during the previous administrations too.
So Reagan and Bush Sr. *both were allowing the exportation of materials
known to useful in creating bioweapons? They didn't lift a finger to stop
them from being exported to anybody with cash?
Wow. That's a hell of a charge to be laying against them.
"Among the biological materials, which often produce slow, agonizing
death, were:
* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain,
spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic
illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.
"Also on the list: Escherichia coli (E. coli), genetic materials, human
and bacterial DNA, and dozens of other pathogenic biological agents.
'These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were
capable of reproduction,' the Senate report stated."
I didn't ignore these things. I responded to them by pointing out that
they were biosamples which were available at the time to anyone with a
good looking letterhead (I think Saddam went through Baghdad University)
and the cash.
They were unattenuated and approval for shipment had to come from the
administration.
"The report noted further that U.S. exports to Iraq included the
precursors to chemical-warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological
warfare production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment."
https://www.theprogressive.org/0901/anth0498.html
If all THAT was available to "anyone with money and a letterhead" then
no wonder there's a panic over terrorism...
For a very long time, we operated under the mistaken belief that chemical
weapons attacks were too difficult for terrorists. That's clearly not true
although there are difficulties. The Japanese subway sarin attack was a
good example of what we face in future.
So you're telling me Reagan, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush Sr. really *were
allowing the shipment of dangerous biomaterials to anybody who came along.
No wonder we have a problem.
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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