Calico^Linx^Green wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Each time I RESPOND to a claim by someone that Jesus Christ is
real without a doubt, they never can offer proof. Instead:

Can anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of
Julius Caesar or Alexander the great?

Here's a short list of the evidence we have that supports the
existence of Gaius Julius Caesar:

o Extensive examples of his own writing, including his
accounts of the Gallic wars. (No, not the original
manuscripts--none exist from that period. Then again, we
have no original manuscripts for the Bible or anything
else that ancient that wasn't carved in stone.)

o Both sides of correspondence between Caesar and various
others, and various other letters Caesar wrote and others
wrote to him.

o Contemporary biographical accounts.

o Contemporary incidental documents mentioning him,
including other letters and bureaucratic minutiae.

o Historical accounts written by eyewitnesses after his
death.

o Historical accounts written in every generation since.

o Busts, coins, and other contemporary artifacts bearing
his likeness.

o Monuments, buildings, roads, etc., built at his command
and often bearing his name.

o Cities built and burnt, and archaeological evidence
supporting same (including from various military campaigns
he led).

And that's the short list.

DO YOU believe in the existence of the man named Albert
Einstein? You may readily answer yes, but why?

I've seen video footage of him, read his words, and lots more.
Here're a bunch of movies:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22albert+einstein%22

Most people have not personally met him. Yet, reliable reports
of his accomplishments prove that he did exist. The influence
of his existence is felt through scientific applications of
his discoveries. For instance, many benefit from electricity
generated by nuclear energy, the release of which is closely
linked with the application of Einstein's famous equation, E=mc2
(energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

See...the difference is that, even if Einstein is a hoax, it
doesn't matter. An object's energy still equals the product of its
mass and the square of the speed of light, regardless of who first
figured it out.

Calico^Linx^Green wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Each time I RESPOND to a claim by someone that Jesus Christ is
real without a doubt, they never can offer proof. Instead:

Can anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of
Julius Caesar or Alexander the great?

Here's a short list of the evidence we have that supports the
existence of Gaius Julius Caesar:

o Extensive examples of his own writing, including his
accounts of the Gallic wars. (No, not the original
manuscripts--none exist from that period. Then again, we
have no original manuscripts for the Bible or anything
else that ancient that wasn't carved in stone.)

o Both sides of correspondence between Caesar and various
others, and various other letters Caesar wrote and others
wrote to him.

o Contemporary biographical accounts.

o Contemporary incidental documents mentioning him,
including other letters and bureaucratic minutiae.

o Historical accounts written by eyewitnesses after his
death.

o Historical accounts written in every generation since.

o Busts, coins, and other contemporary artifacts bearing
his likeness.

o Monuments, buildings, roads, etc., built at his command
and often bearing his name.

o Cities built and burnt, and archaeological evidence
supporting same (including from various military campaigns
he led).

And that's the short list.

DO YOU believe in the existence of the man named Albert
Einstein? You may readily answer yes, but why?

I've seen video footage of him, read his words, and lots more.
Here're a bunch of movies:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22albert+einstein%22

Most people have not personally met him. Yet, reliable reports
of his accomplishments prove that he did exist. The influence
of his existence is felt through scientific applications of
his discoveries. For instance, many benefit from electricity
generated by nuclear energy, the release of which is closely
linked with the application of Einstein's famous equation, E=mc2
(energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

See...the difference is that, even if Einstein is a hoax, it
doesn't matter. An object's energy still equals the product of its
mass and the square of the speed of light, regardless of who first
figured it out.

You're suck with the fact that, in the case of Jesus, it /does/
matter. You're just in it for the afterlife, after all, and,
without Jesus, there ain't none.

Unfortunately for you, there ain't no afterlife anyway, so
clinging to Jesus is futile. Besides, why waste time worrying
about what happens to you when you're dead when there's so much to
live for before them?

Consider the testimony of Flavius Josephus, a first-century
Jewish historian who was a Pharisee. He referred to Jesus
Christ in the book Jewish Antiquities. Although some doubt the
authenticity of the first reference where Josephus mentioned
Jesus as the Messiah, Professor Louis H. Feldman of Yeshiva
University says that few have doubted the genuineness of the
second reference. There Josephus said: "[Ananus the high priest]
convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a
man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the
Christ." (Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200) Yes, a Pharisee, a member
of the sect many of whose adherents were avowed enemies of
Jesus, acknowledged the existence of "James, the brother of
Jesus."

Had you bothered reading to the end of the paragraph, you'd know
exactly which Jesus Joesphus was referring to. His father wasn't
Joseph or even God...it was Damneus.

Sorry.

Besides, Josephus wasn't even /born/ until after the end of
Pilate's reign...and he wrote the /Antiquities/ in his sixties, at
the very end of the first century. If there was substantial
evidence to support the existence of Jesus, what Josephus wrote
would have been useful to help flesh things out. But using him to
establish Jesus's existence is asinine--even if the /Testamonium/
wasn't pure fabrication and the Jamesian reference a blatantly
obvious case of mistraken identity.

Tacitus, born about 55 C.E. and considered one of the world's
greatest historians, mentioned the Christians in his Annals.

So? Nobody questions the fact that Christians existed, or that
they believed in Christ. If the /New York Times/ ran a front-page
article about the beliefs of Scientologists, would that ``prove''
that Xenu existed?

So, do you, like, you know? Have any /real/ evidence that he
existed? Something close to contemporary, or by an eyewitness? A
bust, perhaps, or some other artifact?

No?

Didn't think so.

Cheers,

b&

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:35:01 -0500, Calico^Linx^Green
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Each time I RESPOND to a claim by someone that Jesus Christ is real
without a doubt, they never can offer proof. Instead:

Can anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of Julius
Caesar or Alexander the great?

DO YOU believe in the existence of the man named Albert Einstein? You
may readily answer yes, but why? Most people have not personally met
him. Yet, reliable reports of his accomplishments prove that he did
exist. The influence of his existence is felt through scientific
applications of his discoveries. For instance, many benefit from
electricity generated by nuclear energy, the release of which is
closely linked with the application of Einstein's famous equation,
E=mc2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

Why do you imagine this dishonesty fools anybody? Einstein is a
conclusion. Jesus isn't, merely a name for a belief, looking for
anything that can be rationalised to fit.

It is dishonest to talk about "believing in Einstein".
-

Consider the testimony of Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish
historian who was a Pharisee. He referred to Jesus Christ in the book
Jewish Antiquities. Although some doubt the authenticity of the first
reference where Josephus mentioned Jesus as the Messiah, Professor
Louis H. Feldman of Yeshiva University says that few have doubted the
genuineness of the second reference. There Josephus said: "[Ananus the
high priest] convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before
them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the
Christ." (Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200) Yes, a Pharisee, a member of
the sect many of whose adherents were avowed enemies of Jesus,
acknowledged the existence of "James, the brother of Jesus."

No. It's an obvious out-of-context insertion by a Christian. It was
not written by a 1st century Jew.

Tacitus, born about 55 C.E. and considered one of the world's greatest
historians, mentioned the Christians in his Annals. In the account
about Nero's blaming the great fire of Rome in 64 C.E. on them, he
wrote: "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite
tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by
the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered
the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one
of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus." The details of this account
match the information regarding the Jesus of the Bible.

Christians, not Jesus..

Why do you idiots keep repeating the same debunked crap?

You've got nothing.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:35:01 -0500, Calico^Linx^Green
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Each time I RESPOND to a claim by someone that Jesus Christ is real
without a doubt, they never can offer proof. Instead:

Can anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of Julius
Caesar or Alexander the great?

DO YOU believe in the existence of the man named Albert Einstein? You
may readily answer yes, but why? Most people have not personally met
him. Yet, reliable reports of his accomplishments prove that he did
exist. The influence of his existence is felt through scientific
applications of his discoveries. For instance, many benefit from
electricity generated by nuclear energy, the release of which is
closely linked with the application of Einstein's famous equation,
E=mc2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

Why do you imagine this dishonesty fools anybody? Einstein is a
conclusion. Jesus isn't, merely a name for a belief, looking for
anything that can be rationalised to fit.

It is dishonest to talk about "believing in Einstein".
-

Consider the testimony of Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish
historian who was a Pharisee. He referred to Jesus Christ in the book
Jewish Antiquities. Although some doubt the authenticity of the first
reference where Josephus mentioned Jesus as the Messiah, Professor
Louis H. Feldman of Yeshiva University says that few have doubted the
genuineness of the second reference. There Josephus said: "[Ananus the
high priest] convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before
them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the
Christ." (Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200) Yes, a Pharisee, a member of
the sect many of whose adherents were avowed enemies of Jesus,
acknowledged the existence of "James, the brother of Jesus."

No. It's an obvious out-of-context insertion by a Christian. It was
not written by a 1st century Jew.

Tacitus, born about 55 C.E. and considered one of the world's greatest
historians, mentioned the Christians in his Annals. In the account
about Nero's blaming the great fire of Rome in 64 C.E. on them, he
wrote: "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite
tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by
the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered
the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one
of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus." The details of this account
match the information regarding the Jesus of the Bible.

Christians, not Jesus..

Why do you idiots keep repeating the same debunked crap?

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:35:01 -0500, Calico^Linx^Green
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:

Budikka666 wrote:

Each time I RESPOND to a claim by someone that Jesus Christ is real
without a doubt, they never can offer proof. Instead:

Can anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of Julius
Caesar or Alexander the great?

DO YOU believe in the existence of the man named Albert Einstein? You
may readily answer yes, but why? Most people have not personally met
him. Yet, reliable reports of his accomplishments prove that he did
exist. The influence of his existence is felt through scientific
applications of his discoveries. For instance, many benefit from
electricity generated by nuclear energy, the release of which is
closely linked with the application of Einstein's famous equation,
E=mc2 (energy equals mass times the speed of light squared).

Why do you imagine this dishonesty fools anybody? Einstein is a
conclusion. Jesus isn't, merely a name for a belief, looking for
anything that can be rationalised to fit.

It is dishonest to talk about "believing in Einstein".
-

Consider the testimony of Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish
historian who was a Pharisee. He referred to Jesus Christ in the book
Jewish Antiquities. Although some doubt the authenticity of the first
reference where Josephus mentioned Jesus as the Messiah, Professor
Louis H. Feldman of Yeshiva University says that few have doubted the
genuineness of the second reference. There Josephus said: "[Ananus the
high priest] convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before
them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the
Christ." (Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200) Yes, a Pharisee, a member of
the sect many of whose adherents were avowed enemies of Jesus,
acknowledged the existence of "James, the brother of Jesus."

No. It's an obvious out-of-context insertion by a Christian. It was
not written by a 1st century Jew.

Tacitus, born about 55 C.E. and considered one of the world's greatest
historians, mentioned the Christians in his Annals. In the account
about Nero's blaming the great fire of Rome in 64 C.E. on them, he
wrote: "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite
tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by
the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered
the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one
of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus." The details of this account
match the information regarding the Jesus of the Bible.

Christians, not Jesus..