On 15 Jul 2006 21:40:33 -0700, "JB" <walkinggreyhap@yahoo.com> wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

Previously, on alt.atheism, JB in episode
<1152490567.188717.256470@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...

Just curious what you all think.. I do not know if there is a god or not,
but I was raised as a christian. Get this: I go to church every week and
try to follow the "10 commandments" even though I have serious doubts as
to whether they are but the work of a human hand. My faith is nil but I
try to act "as if" Jesus is Christ because i fear hell.

Do you actually "fear hell"? If so, you have some degree of belief.

I do, because I already committed the "unpardonable sin" of "blasphemy
against
the Holy Spirit. (Matt 12)... so if theoretically i were to make
radical switch back
to xtianity i'm still fucked...

JB

You should resolve to do enough thinking and reading until you
understand that Christianity is nothing but *****. If you can't
shake your superstitions, though, JB, then you need to talk this
"unpardonable sin" thing over with a clergyman whose opinion you
respect.

Previously, on alt.atheism, JB in episode
<1153024833.149665.216180@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

Previously, on alt.atheism, JB in episode
<1152490567.188717.256470@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...

Just curious what you all think.. I do not know if there is a god or
not, but I was raised as a christian. Get this: I go to church every
week and try to follow the "10 commandments" even though I have
serious doubts as to whether they are but the work of a human hand.
My faith is nil but I try to act "as if" Jesus is Christ because i
fear hell.

Do you actually "fear hell"? If so, you have some degree of belief.

I do, because I already committed the "unpardonable sin" of "blasphemy
against the Holy Spirit. (Matt 12)... so if theoretically i were to make
radical switch back to xtianity i'm still fucked...

Are you sure? As in are you aware that nobody agrees on what the
"unpardonable sin" actually is? If after two thousand years, they can't
figure out what it is, how does anybody know whether they've committed it
or not? Mind you, there's even a line of thought that says there is no
longer any such sin because Jesus isn't physically on earth.

Go figure.

Of course, now, the sect I was raised in believes in "eternal security."
So they hold you cannot lose your "salvation" which means I--the
atheist--still going to heaven. But our little devout Catholic troll,
who's been showing his ***** on alt.atheism for years now, is apostate and
going to hell.

Nutty stuff eh?

I know exactly what you're going through. If you've been
indoctrinated--particularly since youth--into this idea of "hell," it's a
disturbing thing that tends to stick with you a while. I had those weird
moments of panic over the idea "what if they're right???" for a while
myself.

Though the funny thing about that is those didn't start when I became
atheist, they started when I became aware I was atheist and started
hanging out in atheist newsgroups on-line. Weirdly enough, I wasn't really
aware of having become atheist until somebody actually asked if I was one.
I can still remember having no answer. It just hadn't occurred to me.

So I started hanging out around an on-line atheist group (but on
Compuserve back then) and found they made a hell of a lot of sense. So I
was willing to say "yes, I am an atheist."

*Then the weird moments of "you're going to hell!!!" started. Which
strikes me as very screwy. But, anyway, it faded.

Also, there's a very big problem in Christian theology they all try to
avoid. If "god" is sovereign, if what is moral and just is defined by its
actions, and if there is no moral code independent of itself to constrain
it, all bets are off. Such a being could dump everybody into hell without
any notice and be totally justified. The "rules" could have changed last
week for all you know and "god" is under no obligation to tell you. What
are you going to do? Sue for breach of contract?

If such a being exists, you're no more secure being a devout believer than
being a hardcore atheist. And, of course, this all presumes Christians
have the right "god." Maybe the Norse gods are the real gods. You know
they're making a come back in parts of Europe lately?

My favorite, though, is to point out that the Bible itself says the Jews
are "god's chosen." And they don't believe in Jesus. Think about that one
a while. I mean, if there is a "satan" out there, trying to deceive
people, wouldn't it make sense to co-opt the one true religion with a fake
"messiah?" Maybe that's the point of the "unpardonable sin." The places
its mentioned in the New Testament are where the religious leaders of the
day said Jesus was possessed by demons. Or by the "ruler of demons."
Certainly if you are "satan" and you're trying to take over the religion
with a false messiah, you'd want to make exposing you out to be THE sin.

It adds up in a rather disturbing way really...