Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Pastor Frank"
Date:	28 Jul 2004 04:54:40 PM
Object:	Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:4107C0E1.3F654EC5@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

Pastor Frank wrote:

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:41068051.AC6A5480@Nothing_But_The.Truth...

sensible2me wrote:

Brenda G. Kent <wt211@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0407260953490.23271@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...

in my opinion we are all Gods children. Satan is only as real as

you

create "him" to be.
Blessings
Bren

I'll put it this way....
There are fruits of the spirit..Many of their own kind. Each person

has

some

which came
from God. Not every person has chosen to let God plant every good

seed

him. That is why God said "become ye perfect."

===>When and where did "God" say that? -- L.

Our God incarnate, Jesus Christ said that in Matt 5:48. See below

===>The Jesus CHARACTER in the story written by someone later dubbed
"Matthew" said that. You have no evidence for ANYTHING attributed to
a real, historical PERSON.
"Don't confuse fiction with reality." -- L.

You "have no evidence" to the contrary, and your doubts makes no
difference to the validity of the Christian belief system.
Again, stop forcing atheism down our throats.
Pastor Frank
SATAN'S MINIONS
Jesus in John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of
your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode
not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie,
he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mt:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mt:12:34: O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good
things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mt:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth
forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth
evil things.
2Pt:3:3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days
scoffers, walking after their own lusts.
.

User: "Ensjo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	29 Jul 2004 09:37:34 AM

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<PwYNc.54241$ni1.1024@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

SATAN'S MINIONS
<bible quotationes snipped>

If Satan exists, it's no one's but YHWH's fault. YHWH allegedly has
the power to destroy him and all his minions, yet he won't do it.
Why won't YHWH destroy Satan?
http://www.spiritual-warfare.net/html/page/who_is_satan_
"Satan is permitted to operate for certain reasons. Firstly, so there
could be a choice - people must choose to worship God now - there is
an alternative. Secondly, Satan and his kingdom exists to ensure that
people reap what they sow. Thirdly, Satan is permitted to operate
while God gives mankind time to repent. For God could not forcibly
remove evil from the Universe justly unless He also destroyed sinners
at the same time. God instead is holding back his wrath, giving men
time to turn to Him."
YHWH can create everything out of nothing, yet he can't (or won't)
find a way to eliminate the evil without destroying the sinners. Such
an incompetent! He doesn't seem to be "almighty" after all.
Well, he seem to be incompetent in other situations as well.
Judges 1:19: "The Lord (...) could not drive out the inhabitants of
the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
Tsc tsc... Pathetic...
Ensjo.
.

User: "Rhonda"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	29 Jul 2004 02:24:52 PM

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0407290637.46c7c632@posting.google.com...

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<PwYNc.54241$ni1.1024@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

SATAN'S MINIONS
<bible quotationes snipped>

If Satan exists, it's no one's but YHWH's fault. YHWH allegedly has
the power to destroy him and all his minions, yet he won't do it.

Why won't YHWH destroy Satan?

Yes, Father Frank, why did God create evil?
Rhonda
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	30 Jul 2004 09:14:36 PM

"Rhonda" <Rhonda@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8acOc.53053$eM2.22532@attbi_s51...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0407290637.46c7c632@posting.google.com...

If Satan exists, it's no one's but YHWH's fault. YHWH allegedly has
the power to destroy him and all his minions, yet he won't do it.
Why won't YHWH destroy Satan?

Yes, Father Frank, why did God create evil?
Rhonda

Are you intentionally blasphemous? Did not Christ say in Mt:23:9: And
call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in
heaven.?
God did not create evil. God created good, and by so doing evil came
into being to contrast and define good.
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Mt:11:25: At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from
the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Jesus in Mt:19:14: But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid
them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus in Lk:18:17: Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive
the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
Mt:23:9: And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father,
which is in heaven.
.

User: "Ensjo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	01 Aug 2004 01:31:26 PM

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<LDEOc.58816$KA1.55163@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

God did not create evil. God created good, and by so doing evil came
into being to contrast and define good.

If I make a computer program, I make it function the way I want.
Unwanted behaviours are due to errors of the program writer.
If YHWH created the Universe and allowed the evil in, he probably did
it intentionally, since, being (allegedly) perfect, he can't possibly
err.
Ensjo.
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: The folly of Fundie-Frankism	11 Aug 2004 03:17:01 AM

"Gwar" <xeno@xor.qua> wrote in message
news:20040805222543.K5128@synergy.transbay.net...

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Pastor Frank wrote:

It's up to us to shrink the distance between opposites and perfect God's
creation.

To perfect the universe would require omnipotence so you're asking people
to do the impossible.

To be caring of others is NOT "impossible". You are again posting
atheism to Christian NGs and use flames in the subject line. I will post you
over to your flame groups.
.

User: "Aaron"
Title: Re: The folly of Fundie-Frankism	14 Sep 2004 05:05:40 PM

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 04:17:01 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:

"Gwar" <xeno@xor.qua> wrote in message
news:20040805222543.K5128@synergy.transbay.net...

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Pastor Frank wrote:

It's up to us to shrink the distance between opposites and perfect God's
creation.

To perfect the universe would require omnipotence so you're asking people
to do the impossible.

To be caring of others is NOT "impossible". You are again posting
atheism to Christian NGs and use flames in the subject line. I will post you
over to your flame groups.

Frank, God will perfect the universe once humans learn that it is
beyong out power. Your humanism/Athism is showing, Frank.
As for the actual topic: Fundamentalism the Tentieth Century
Protestant theology of literally interpreting the Bible is, of course,
wrong. Some perts of the Bible are clearly literal and some are
clearly symbolic. Most Fundamentalists also embrace the anti-biblical
doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" which claims that only the Bible can be
used for doctrine despite the fact that jesus criticixed certain
groups of Pharisees for violating the Oral Law (found in the Talmud),
in Matthew 23. All and all Fundamentalism is a sad joke.
.

User: "Mothergodwacker"
Title: Re: The folly of Fundie-Frankism	14 Sep 2004 08:47:02 PM

"Aaron" <anon@home.net> from the depths of an opium dream, spouted forth the
following news:85qek0l4lis0f8mp582barcculish5bhco@4ax.com...

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 04:17:01 -0400, "Pastor Frank"

As for the actual topic: Fundamentalism the Tentieth Century
Protestant theology of literally interpreting the Bible is, of course,
wrong. Some perts of the Bible are clearly literal and some are
clearly symbolic. Most Fundamentalists also embrace the anti-biblical
doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" which claims that only the Bible can be
used for doctrine despite the fact that jesus criticixed certain
groups of Pharisees for violating the Oral Law (found in the Talmud),
in Matthew 23. All and all Fundamentalism is a sad joke

Oh duhhhhhh, all and all, religion in general, and xtianity is particular,
is a "sad joke" on the imbeciles who surrender such of their braincells as
they possess to it. You clearly think there is a difference between your
flavor of your cult and theirs. You are wrong. Also, while your inability
to spell is amusing here, you might try to use "spellcheck", if you intend
to pose as a literate scholar, instead of the ignorant moron you clearly
are. Give up apologetics for now, you clearly lack talent for this.
A gentle hint from
--
Mothergodwacker
CEO "Noah's Odor of Sanctity Kitty Litter"
100% recycled gideon bibles
"Absorbs up to 40 days & nights--No change required!"
http://forums.clickhalah.com/index.php
.

User: "St. Jacknapes"
Title: Re: The folly of Fundie-Frankism	14 Sep 2004 11:01:29 PM

In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Aaron said...

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 04:17:01 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote:

"Gwar" <xeno@xor.qua> wrote in message
news:20040805222543.K5128@synergy.transbay.net...

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Pastor Frank wrote:

It's up to us to shrink the distance between opposites and perfect God's
creation.

To perfect the universe would require omnipotence so you're asking people
to do the impossible.

To be caring of others is NOT "impossible". You are again posting
atheism to Christian NGs and use flames in the subject line. I will post you
over to your flame groups.

Frank, God will perfect the universe once humans learn that it is
beyong out power. Your humanism/Athism is showing, Frank.

As for the actual topic: Fundamentalism the Tentieth Century
Protestant theology of literally interpreting the Bible is, of course,
wrong. Some perts of the Bible are clearly literal and some are
clearly symbolic. Most Fundamentalists also embrace the anti-biblical
doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" which claims that only the Bible can be
used for doctrine despite the fact that jesus criticixed certain
groups of Pharisees for violating the Oral Law (found in the Talmud),
in Matthew 23. All and all Fundamentalism is a sad joke.

You're being trolled, nitwit.
--
St. Jackanapes
-----------------------------------------------------------|
-0- ULC Ordained Saint & Zenophobic -0-
The Only Living Holy Relic - Bearer of the One True Liver
http://www.jackanapes.ws - http://www.voy.com/20630/
-----------------------------------------------------------|
HALAH'S OPEN FORUM: http://forums.clickhalah.com/

.

User: "Ensjo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	14 Aug 2004 12:05:40 PM

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<%W5Tc.89038$Lk6.51363@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408060500.1b570bc2@posting.google.com...

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote in message

news:<VTzQc.71903$437.27310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408051238.45a50c50@posting.google.com...

He could design humans' free will to operate within a scale of "good"
to "neutral", not pending to the "evil" side. If there is evil, if
there is Satan, it's because YHWH allowed it -- and wanted it.

Sorry, but dichotomies are always extremes, i.e. hot - cold, good -
evil, right - wrong, innocent - guilty, heaven - hell etc. One is only
"neutral" when dead. Also, a choice must present a full choice between

good

and evil, not only half a choice, -between "good to neutral".

OK, you just confirm I said -- evil exists with YHWH's permit. You
just think you can explain WHY (I doubt your theory is god-inspired),
but yet it is YHWH's fault -- or desire -- that evil exists.

If you had no choice between doing good and doing evil, the why bother
to live? You would be just an automaton who does whatever he is programmed
to do.

Your argument can be applied to another situation: After the "final
judgement", during the "eternal life", I guess the "elected ones" will
not have any more choice between doing good or evil -- they will be
essentially good. If they have no choice between doing good or evil,
then why bother to live (eternally)? They would just be automata who
does only the "good" they have proven to be programmed to do.
Anyway, YHWH, being omnipotent, could have created humans to be just
what they would be after the final judgement. The earthly life of
mankind comes out to be just a senseless farce.

By the way, it's funny that though human experience allows infinite
possibilities within the range from "evil" to "good", there will be
only two possible fates after the judgement.

Those are the goals you are working at to achieve. You either work up to
the good, or down to implement what is evil. Go just helps to go where you
want to go.

Yeah, but EVERY action of a man will be eventually classified within a
scale from "good" to "evil", and how can that be objectively weighted
and summed up to only one bit of information (0 = evil; 1 = good)?

I imagine two people: one is "almost evil", the other one has lived
pretty much the same way as the first, only that he has in his account
one more little sin, no matter how small -- and falls within the
"evil" boundaries. So the former will go to heaven, and the latter
will burn in hell.

That's just plainly wrong!!!! None of those regard themselves as good
people, nay even those who can prove that they are paragons of virtue will
be in heaven.

I'm not mentioning how they regard themselves or how others regard
them. I'm refering to how YHWH will eventually "evaluate" them.

Heaven is solely occupied by forgiven sinners.

Yes, but forgiveness is largely based on the good and evil that
someone does during his life.

It's up to us to shrink the distance between opposites and perfect God's
creation. That is our purpose for living, and a very worthwhile purpose
it is.

Yeah, he seems to have failed in making it perfect from the start. Now
we have to do the job of an incompetent god.

Yes. Just as incompetent as our parents are for not making the world
perfect for us, their children.

They weren't omnipotent.

I am glad they didn't, for had they done so,
we would have nothing to do, no purpose here and would not be needed.

In eternal life we will live in a state of perfection and there will
be nothing to do. We will live without purpose forever.

It's not just tasting the fruits of profligacy and [debauchery] like
hedonists suppose.

Blame YHWH creating humans with built-in inclination to like such
things.

Not at all. You seem to blame God for not creating robots who can only
act as they were pre-programmed and have no discernment between good and
evil and no ability to make a free choice.

Not at all. I'm just pointing how the concept of a perfect,
omniscient, omnipotent god who feels the need (despite being perfect)
to create other entities with flaws (despite being able to create them
perfect) to eventually select those which will come out good (despite
being able to know it previously) is plainly devoid of sense.

Btw eternally "wailing" complaints is the mark of those in the "outer
darkness" of hell. They normally post to atheist and flame NGs. Do you do
anything else? Tell us about what do you like about Christianity, support
and promote?

Well, the humanitarian actions and feelings are good, keep them. But
the mythologic and superstitious beliefs should be dropped. It
inspires obscurantism, intolerance, sexism, etc.
Ensjo.
.

User: "Marcia"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	14 Aug 2004 01:31:53 PM

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408140905.59ffe2d9@posting.google.com...

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<%W5Tc.89038$Lk6.51363@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408060500.1b570bc2@posting.google.com...

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> wrote in message

news:<VTzQc.71903$437.27310@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408051238.45a50c50@posting.google.com...

He could design humans' free will to operate within a scale of
"good"
to "neutral", not pending to the "evil" side. If there is evil, if
there is Satan, it's because YHWH allowed it -- and wanted it.

Sorry, but dichotomies are always extremes, i.e. hot - cold,
good -
evil, right - wrong, innocent - guilty, heaven - hell etc. One is
only
"neutral" when dead. Also, a choice must present a full choice
between

good

and evil, not only half a choice, -between "good to neutral".

OK, you just confirm I said -- evil exists with YHWH's permit. You
just think you can explain WHY (I doubt your theory is god-inspired),
but yet it is YHWH's fault -- or desire -- that evil exists.

Hi Father Frank:
You be a crazy MF! :)
Marcia
.

User: "LetMeGoOK"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	14 Aug 2004 01:45:23 PM

He could design humans' free will to operate within a scale of "good"

to "neutral", not pending to the "evil" side. If there is evil, if
there is Satan, it's because YHWH allowed it -- and wanted it.

Humans can ALWAYS operate on a scale of good. Humans have free choice, free
will.
If God interceeded on free will of the soul, the soul would argue it was "God's
fault!"
Although even with free will humans STILL blame God!
Humans should stop putting the blame on God and take responsibility for our own
actions.
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have
entertained angels unawares.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
.

User: "Ensjo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	17 Aug 2004 11:31:37 AM

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<_04Uc.95597$Zs3.72685@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408101940.cbb7215@posting.google.com...

YHWH is allegedly omniscient -- he is supposed to know that a man is
to end up evil. YHWH is allegedly omnipotent -- if such a man is
allowed to live AND eventually go to hell, it's because YHWH wanted it
to happen.
Hey, Judas had no choice. It was IMPERATIVE that someone should betray
Jesus, to fulfill YHWH's plan. :-D

Are you posting atheism exclusively to our pristine Christian NGs again?

And you keep on silently removing alt.atheism from the headers, only
to make that public display of indignation.

"allegedly omnipotent" indeed!!!!!! Just because someone can do something,
does not mean he HAS TO do it.

Yes, he doesn't have to do it IF HE DOESN'T WANT. If YHWH allows evil
people to be born, it's because he doesn't wants to avoid it.

Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:9,16)
become fully manifested in Jesus Christ, and our God is strong enough and
omnipotent enough to be able to lay down His omnipotence and omniscience,
become a man and die a man's death on the cross of Calvary.

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or against
his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising His omniscience
to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.
Ensjo.
.

User: "Pastor Frank"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	18 Aug 2004 10:02:08 AM

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408170716.5e05929@posting.google.com...

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<_04Uc.95597$Zs3.72685@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

"Ensjo" <ensjo@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:2038a23c.0408101940.cbb7215@posting.google.com...

Are you posting atheism exclusively to our pristine Christian NGs

again?

And you keep on silently removing alt.atheism from the headers, only
to make that public display of indignation.

I don't discuss Christ or Christianity in atheist NGs. I post atheist
comments to atheist NGs. Please make up your mind whether you want to
discuss Christ and Christianity in Christian NGs or atheism in atheist NGs.
"indignation" indeed!!!!!

"allegedly omnipotent" indeed!!!!!! Just because someone can do

something,

does not mean he HAS TO do it.

Yes, he doesn't have to do it IF HE DOESN'T WANT. If YHWH allows evil
people to be born, it's because he doesn't wants to avoid it.

Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:9,16)
become fully manifested in Jesus Christ, and our God is strong enough

and

omnipotent enough to be able to lay down His omnipotence and

omniscience,

become a man and die a man's death on the cross of Calvary.

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or

against

his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising His

omniscience

to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.

Christ is our God incarnate and He admitted not knowing the day and hour
of the end of the world. That is not because He could not know, for all of
God's power was given to Him, but that He had the power NOT to know, and
exercised His prerogative.
Pastor Frank
JUDGMENT
Jesus in Mt:18:7: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must
needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence
cometh!
Jesus in Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mt:23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that
shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Rv:13:10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints.
Jesus in Mt12:36-37: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men
shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by
thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Jesus in Jn:8:15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Jesus in Lk:6:37: Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not,
and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
1Cor:4:3: But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged
by you, or by any man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Cor:4:4: For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified:
but He that judgeth me is my Father which is in Heaven.
Ephesians 2:8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should
boast.
Jms:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.
.

User: "Ensjo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	19 Aug 2004 12:22:36 PM

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

Ensjo wrote:

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or
against his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising
His omniscience to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.

Context, please. I wasn't referring to Yhwh during his brief earthly
incarnation as Yeshua. I'll accept for now that while embodied as a
human being Yhwh could somehow disable some of his powers.
Nonetheless, I was referring to Yhwh in the context of the heavenly
god, when he has access to his powers in full glory.
Ensjo.
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	20 Aug 2004 03:31:11 PM

Ensjo wrote:

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

Ensjo wrote:

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or
against his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising
His omniscience to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.

===>The "power not to know" is a totally asinine concept. An "omnipotent"
being would already know what it is he/she/it does not want to know. ;-) -- L.
.

User: "AnotherObserver�"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	20 Aug 2004 04:32:51 PM

Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:

Ensjo wrote:

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

Ensjo wrote:

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or
against his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising
His omniscience to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.

===>The "power not to know" is a totally asinine concept. An "omnipotent"
being would already know what it is he/she/it does not want to know. ;-) -- L.

The true asinine concept is the one where people, with such a limited
knowledge of the universe, suppose to know and understand that the
universe was created by a being, claim to have a relationship with
that being and on top of all of this absurdity, they claim to know
what the being can and can't do, plus, what it does and doesn't want.
Nothing is more asinine than that my friend.
--
Davidwd
~~~~~~~~~
irreligionist
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	21 Aug 2004 12:34:04 PM

"AnotherObserver�" wrote:

Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:

Ensjo wrote:

"Pastor Frank" <PastorFrank@Christfirst.com> scribeva in message
news:<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca>...

Ensjo wrote:

The very omnipotence of YHWH nullifies the sacrifice of his avatar.
Where is the worth of killing myself if I have the power to
resuscitate every time?

Our God is also secure enough to allow man a free choice, for or
against his Father which is in Heaven. He has no need for exercising
His omniscience to sneak a preview as to what a man will choose.

He doesn't need to actively *sneak a preview*, he simply and
inconditionally KNOWS.

===>The "power not to know" is a totally asinine concept. An "omnipotent"
being would already know what it is he/she/it does not want to know. ;-) -- L.

===>Well, there may be SOME things more asinine, but
that is asinine enough. ;-) -- L.
.

User: "Vic Sagerquist"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	22 Sep 2004 12:48:20 PM

on 20 Aug 2004 in alt.atheism, dropped trou, farted, then shouted:

And, of course, this being's desires always coincide with their own.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that
intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree?
Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be
as smart as God. We can't have that."
[Frank Zappa]
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	18 Aug 2004 05:50:13 PM

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0400 in episode
<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com>:

You lying sack of *****.
You spent *years over here being a troll for your weird heresy until you
got yourself in trouble with your Usenet provider. You did *not stop until
your provider *made you.
You haven't told the truth since the day you showed up.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	18 Aug 2004 07:47:51 PM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:B62dnTyUtJy-QL7cRVn-jw@megapath.net...

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0400 in episode
<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com>:

I don't discuss Christ or Christianity in atheist NGs. I post

atheist

comments to atheist NGs. Please make up your mind whether you want to
discuss Christ and Christianity in Christian NGs or atheism in atheist
NGs. "indignation" indeed!!!!!

Is it just me or has "Pastor" Flake REALLY been going off the deep end
lately?
--
__________
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.

User: "Pap Tist"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	18 Aug 2004 10:18:54 PM

"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:2oiblnFb6c1aU1@uni-berlin.de...

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:B62dnTyUtJy-QL7cRVn-jw@megapath.net...

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0400 in episode
<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com>:

I don't discuss Christ or Christianity in atheist NGs. I post

atheist

comments to atheist NGs. Please make up your mind whether you want to
discuss Christ and Christianity in Christian NGs or atheism in atheist
NGs. "indignation" indeed!!!!!

Is it just me or has "Pastor" Flake REALLY been going off the deep end
lately?

Yeah he's gone from fruit cake to wacko.
Papist
.

User: "Gwar"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	19 Aug 2004 06:44:02 AM

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Robibnikoff wrote:

You spent *years over here being a troll for your weird heresy
You haven't told the truth since the day you showed up.

Is it just me or has "Pastor" Flake REALLY been going off the deep end
lately?

Whatever is behind the persona has been having trouble remaining in
character.
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	19 Aug 2004 07:50:49 AM

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 04:44:02 -0700 in episode
<20040819043544.T53557@synergy.transbay.net> we saw our hero Gwar
<xeno@xor.qua>:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Robibnikoff wrote:

You spent *years over here being a troll for your weird heresy

You haven't told the truth since the day you showed up.

Is it just me or has "Pastor" Flake REALLY been going off the deep end
lately?

Whatever is behind the persona has been having trouble remaining in
character.

Well, what's "behind the persona" is an old retired coot that's been
sinking into dementia for some years now. Schierenberg has been around
about seven years (his first alt.atheism appearance per Google was in July
of '97, not long after his first known appearance on Usenet over in
rec.gardens).
He was actually somewhat more coherent back then. Oddball beliefs even
back then and not very well educated on Christian history nor theology but
not so much the ranting loon he is today. Didn't even call himself
"pastor" back then. At least not until a while after he appointed himself
a "ministry to atheists."
He is an odd one. Shrieks all the time about the US courts but lives in
Canada where they have no jurisdiction. Never have figured out whether
he's a loopy Canadian who can't figure out his country is *separate from
ours or if he's an expatriate USer who left but still bitches.
His latest "I'll post you over" campaign of being a self-appointed
moderator and netcop likely started because he *lost his last account. He
was with one of the few Usenet providers that's quite serious about
enforcing terms of service and incorporate the FAQ/charter of a newsgroup
into same. Got himself filtered at one point. Nym shifted so he could come
back to alt.atheism and shriek at us since it was all somehow *our fault
his provider was enforcing their rules. Accused people here of "hacking"
him (which is libel really since hacking someone's computer is a crime).
I actually tried to warn him that if he didn't go make nice with his
provider, he was going to lose his account. I knew the provider he was
with, they *hate* nym shifting. You nym shift to get around their filters
and they catch you, they'll throw you off their system. He wouldn't
listen. Just kept shrieking at all us horrible atheists.
Near as I can figure, he's taking it out on everybody. Decided since he
lost his account for breaking the rules, he's going to enforce "the
rules." Never mind he's making "rules" up and he's not an ISP nor a Usenet
provider. He's even threatened to "report" people for doing things he
doesn't like as if anything *he doesn't like is a "rules violation."
Basically, he's really just sort of sad old fart that's losing it as he
ages. I'd be somewhat sympathetic if he wasn't such an unrelentingly
*nasty individual...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.

User: "Pap Tist"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	18 Aug 2004 10:17:58 PM

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:B62dnTyUtJy-QL7cRVn-jw@megapath.net...

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:02:08 -0400 in episode
<woPUc.100619$sb.4561@nntp-post.primus.ca> we saw our hero "Pastor Frank"
<PastorFrank@Christfirst.com>:

Typical phony Father (pastor) Frank!
Paptist
.

User: "Libertarius"
Title: Re: Are we all God's children, or are some created by Satan?	17 Aug 2004 12:48:14 PM