| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark K. Bilbo" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 12:01:51 PM |
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 12:39:03 PM |
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And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:01:51 +0000 didst Christopher A. Lee speak
thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why because they are the ones with the One Absolute Truth(tm) of course!
In fact, all of the many conflicting One Absolute Truths(tm).
Anyway...
Bet they'd be *really confused about me. I *love stuff like that. A great
deal of music that falls into the "inspirational" category (there are Ave
Marias that are just *wonderful stuff for example). And I *adore "Amazing
Grace." <g>
(Well, talk about dealing with human themes that one and in the format of
an old, long lived folk song... great stuff).
I also find the themes of faith, the need to believe in something
greater than oneself, fall and redemption, etc. to be endlessly
fascinating. We are talking, after all, about very *human* characteristics.
Personally, I think the "believers" miss the point. Mythology is Story.
And Story is how humans order their worldview(s). If I had to pin down
*one thing that is human and found in no other species (so far as we
know), it would be Story. We are storytellers.
Literalism and fundamentalism misses the point. Not us. <g>
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Michael W. Moss" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 01:07:20 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.01.03.18.39.02.198980@il.huh>...
And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:01:51 +0000 didst Christopher A. Lee speak
thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why because they are the ones with the One Absolute Truth(tm) of course!
In fact, all of the many conflicting One Absolute Truths(tm).
Anyway...
Bet they'd be *really confused about me. I *love stuff like that. A great
deal of music that falls into the "inspirational" category (there are Ave
Marias that are just *wonderful stuff for example). And I *adore "Amazing
Grace." <g>
(Well, talk about dealing with human themes that one and in the format of
an old, long lived folk song... great stuff).
I also find the themes of faith, the need to believe in something
greater than oneself, fall and redemption, etc. to be endlessly
fascinating. We are talking, after all, about very *human* characteristics.
Personally, I think the "believers" miss the point. Mythology is Story.
And Story is how humans order their worldview(s). If I had to pin down
*one thing that is human and found in no other species (so far as we
know), it would be Story. We are storytellers.
Literalism and fundamentalism misses the point. Not us. <g>
Ah maybe you have missed a point here as well. Yes we as humans teach
the next generations with telling Stories about life experiences and
the like. And you don't think that God would also know this? Jesus was
the most profound storyteller that ever lived. But that is the way we
learn and pass things on down. In my opinion, that is a kudos for God
existance.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 11:30:06 AM |
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And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:07:20 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.01.03.18.39.02.198980@il.huh>...
And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:01:51 +0000 didst Christopher A. Lee speak
thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why because they are the ones with the One Absolute Truth(tm) of course!
In fact, all of the many conflicting One Absolute Truths(tm).
Anyway...
Bet they'd be *really confused about me. I *love stuff like that. A great
deal of music that falls into the "inspirational" category (there are Ave
Marias that are just *wonderful stuff for example). And I *adore "Amazing
Grace." <g>
(Well, talk about dealing with human themes that one and in the format of
an old, long lived folk song... great stuff).
I also find the themes of faith, the need to believe in something
greater than oneself, fall and redemption, etc. to be endlessly
fascinating. We are talking, after all, about very *human* characteristics.
Personally, I think the "believers" miss the point. Mythology is Story.
And Story is how humans order their worldview(s). If I had to pin down
*one thing that is human and found in no other species (so far as we
know), it would be Story. We are storytellers.
Literalism and fundamentalism misses the point. Not us. <g>
Ah maybe you have missed a point here as well. Yes we as humans teach
the next generations with telling Stories about life experiences and
the like. And you don't think that God would also know this? Jesus was
the most profound storyteller that ever lived. But that is the way we
learn and pass things on down. In my opinion, that is a kudos for God
existance.
You haven't any evidence the stories were told by Jesus nor that any Jesus
actually existed to tell stories.
But *you miss the point that storytelling is a human endeavor and found
across all cultures and all beliefs. You take one as "true" and discard
the rest. Pretty much solely based on the happenstance of what culture you
were born and raised in.
People tell stories about fictional beings all the time. I see no reason
to discard any. But I also see no reason to take any of them literally.
And, frankly, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic group of stories are, I think,
among the worst humanity has to offer. Very crude, often exceedingly
trite, frequently of questionable moral value, and almost
universally violent to the point of absurdity.
(Speaking of such, what was up with the psycho who came up with that story
in the bible about "god" sending bears to slaughter *children who made fun
of a bald guy? What was *that about?)
I don't see a lot of value in them. But they still constitute part of my
cultural heritage and that's just happenstance of birth.
You are very much missing the point. Going out of my way to *avoid that
part of my cultural heritage would be the act which would indicate some
kind of "belief." That is to say, I would be acting as if that part had
some greater significance than the *other influences in my cultural
heritage if I was trying to "avoid" it.
I also like christmas trees. That's a pagan tradition. I don't fret over
calling the day of the week "Thursday" even though it was named after the
"god" Thor. Some days, you'll even hear me exclaim "Jesus!" when I'm
frustrated.
(Long aside: I do so love the people who ***** that saying "Jesus!" or
"Jesus Christ!" at times of stress is "profane." Actually, the expression
comes from deeply religious people who were invoking a blessing. Try
reading Shakespeare sometime and you'll see that it was common among
people to exclaim such as "Jesus bless us!"when frightened or startled.
The phrase has shortened over time but, historically speaking, is an
invocation of a deity for help. Though, weirdly enough, the pro-Jesus camp
now frowns on this practice. Go figure. Still, the fact remains that
exclaiming "Jesus!" or some such variation means to me as much as
exclaiming "Thor!" or "Zeus!" Because of the cultural influences to which
I was born, I've picked up some expressions that relate to mythical
figures. Big deal. Going out of my way to "purge" such references would
mean I attach some greater significance to them than what I do)
But back to this thing about "god" using storytelling, that's a
non-starter. Unless you want to believe that all the many gods humans
believe in or have believed in are real.
One would think that if there were *a god (or gods or whatever), they'd
find some unique method of communicating to set them apart from all the
fictional ones.
But no such "gods" ever have. They *all exist in stories. Just like all
kinds of mythical beings.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "386sx" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 01:37:12 AM |
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Michael W. Moss writes:
Ah maybe you have missed a point here as well. Yes we as humans teach the
next generations with telling Stories about life experiences and the
like. And you don't think that God would also know this?
Sure, but all the other gods from all the other myths and stories would also
know that, too. That's the point.
--
Meme-complex \Meem kompleks\, n. The freedom to worship god his own way.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 06:38:31 AM |
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Michael W. Moss wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.01.03.18.39.02.198980@il.huh>...
And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:01:51 +0000 didst Christopher A. Lee speak
thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why because they are the ones with the One Absolute Truth(tm) of course!
In fact, all of the many conflicting One Absolute Truths(tm).
Anyway...
Bet they'd be *really confused about me. I *love stuff like that. A great
deal of music that falls into the "inspirational" category (there are Ave
Marias that are just *wonderful stuff for example). And I *adore "Amazing
Grace." <g>
(Well, talk about dealing with human themes that one and in the format of
an old, long lived folk song... great stuff).
I also find the themes of faith, the need to believe in something
greater than oneself, fall and redemption, etc. to be endlessly
fascinating. We are talking, after all, about very *human* characteristics.
Personally, I think the "believers" miss the point. Mythology is Story.
And Story is how humans order their worldview(s). If I had to pin down
*one thing that is human and found in no other species (so far as we
know), it would be Story. We are storytellers.
Literalism and fundamentalism misses the point. Not us. <g>
Ah maybe you have missed a point here as well. Yes we as humans teach
the next generations with telling Stories about life experiences and
the like. And you don't think that God would also know this? Jesus was
the most profound storyteller that ever lived. But that is the way we
learn and pass things on down. In my opinion, that is a kudos for God
existance.
So close and yet so far...
Why would we think that God Himself isn't a character that the
*storytellers* made up to make a point? Jesus isn't even original; there
were others telling virtually identical stories hundreds of years prior
to New Testamant times.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 01:49:40 PM |
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On 3 Jan 2004 23:07:20 -0800, (Michael W. Moss),
Message ID: <74addd13.0401032307.5ab19dbe@posting.google.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
"Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.01.03.18.39.02.198980@il.huh>...
And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 18:01:51 +0000 didst Christopher A. Lee speak
thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
(snip)
I also find the themes of faith, the need to believe in something
greater than oneself, fall and redemption, etc. to be endlessly
fascinating. We are talking, after all, about very *human* characteristics.
Personally, I think the "believers" miss the point. Mythology is Story.
And Story is how humans order their worldview(s). If I had to pin down
*one thing that is human and found in no other species (so far as we
know), it would be Story. We are storytellers.
Literalism and fundamentalism misses the point. Not us. <g>
Ah maybe you have missed a point here as well. Yes we as humans teach
the next generations with telling Stories about life experiences and
the like.
But then some, you for one, make the mistake of considering a story to
be actual instead of fictional.
And you don't think that God would also know this?
(sad sigh) Fictional entities don't know squat.
Working within your fantasy world, your 'god' doesn't know squat.
Jesus was
the most profound storyteller that ever lived.
Objective supporting evidence for your double assertion?
But that is the way we
learn and pass things on down.
Too bad you didn't learn.
In my opinion, that is a kudos for God
existance.
And the milk and cookies set out for Santa is a 'kudo' for Santa's
'existance.'
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Michael W. Moss" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 01:04:04 AM |
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Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 03:24:31 AM |
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(Michael W. Moss) wrote in message news:<74addd13.0401032304.461185ae@posting.google.com>...
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
Because you came in our newsgroup and got in our face.
Pretty simple, really.
-Hypatia Kosh
--
Keep your gods out of your government.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 11:05:55 AM |
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And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:04:04 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
Nobody's getting "ticked off" about your Jesus myth. Some are getting
ticked off at *you.
Now, back to the subject at hand, do you call the days of the week Sunday,
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and so on?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 11:27:06 AM |
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 11:05:55 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote:
And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:04:04 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh>
wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
The veiled nastiness: "they SAY they don't believe in".
Apparently it's OK when Christians do it, though.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What the ***** has that got to do with enjoying the music?
One of my (Catholic) girlfriend's more fanatical friends couldn't
understand why I like Verdi's Requiem. Or why I liked the movie
"Babette's Feast" because he said it represented something called the
eucharist.
I like the music. I listen but don't join in because I can't sing.
I have had the same girlfriend for several years now. I get to see her
at holidays etc because I had to move from from Silicon Valley to
up-state New York. I even went to a mass with her, for her close
friend's sick mother. Even though I couldn't participate in most of
it.
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Exactly.
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
Nobody's getting "ticked off" about your Jesus myth. Some are getting
ticked off at *you.
Which is remarkably obvious. That he imagines otherwise, demonstrates
that we're dealing with an idiot. That he says so demonstrates his
rudeness.
and they wonder why they get treated like rude idiots.
Now, back to the subject at hand, do you call the days of the week Sunday,
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and so on?
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 09:41:06 AM |
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On 3 Jan 2004 23:04:04 -0800, (Michael W. Moss)
ejaculated:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
You may want to try learning to read. he's getting angry at "you
assholes" who construct "your own stupid strawman". In other words,
you assholes misrepresent and lie about what atheists have to say and
then show how you're better than the made-up strawman atheist you just
constructed.
How could he be angry at a fictional character?
--
Jesus is my crush.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 05:58:36 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 10:41:06 -0500, Beowulf
<beowulf_is_not_here@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3 Jan 2004 23:04:04 -0800, (Michael W. Moss)
ejaculated:
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<ns0evvsa3jukl58c09bespur0196cnvn58@4ax.com>...
Why do these assholes feel they have to show we're unreliable,
untrustworthy etc based on their own stupid strawman?
Why are you getting so angry and ticked off if this isn't such a big
deal to you? Why would you even be interested in anything relating to
Jesus when you are so certain he doesn't exist?
You may want to try learning to read. he's getting angry at "you
assholes" who construct "your own stupid strawman". In other words,
you assholes misrepresent and lie about what atheists have to say and
then show how you're better than the made-up strawman atheist you just
constructed.
How could he be angry at a fictional character?
Moss is too stupid to understand this. He also has a major difficulty
reading for comprehension.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 02:58:41 PM |
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> in
news message <pan.2004.01.03.17.21.06.603273@il.huh> wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 03:59:26 PM |
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And so upon Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 +0000 didst Liz speak thusly:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:21:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> in
news message <pan.2004.01.03.17.21.06.603273@il.huh> wrote:
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
Obviously, that means you not only buhleeve in them but you must worship
them!!!!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 05:32:41 PM |
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
--
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains
premature today."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Michael W. Moss" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 01:10:57 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born. That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
.
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| User: "Masked Avenger" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 07:44:47 AM |
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--
"Michael W. Moss" <mosspier@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:74addd13.0401032310.366c784e@posting.google.com...
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born. That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
WRONG !
get your facts straight .......'gift giving' was part of the 'pagan'
celebrations that Christianity hijacked. These Winter Solstice ( dec. 22
nd ) celebrations occur in many cultures, the Romans were no exception.
They already had a 'holiday' which involved gift giving on Dec 25 long
before Christianity was ever thought of. This day was declared Christ's
birthday for political reasons by one of their Emperors ( Constantine, I
think ) in the 4th century. I suggest you research the 'Council of Nicaea'
circa 325 AD, for a few facts about the reasons that the Roman Empire
adopted Christianity and the Bible is the way it is... a blood curdling tale
if ever there was one.
The same goes for Easter, in fact this one is even easier to show, Easter
( the word basically means EGG ) was the pagan pre-christian celebration of
Life's renewal in Spring, eggs and rabbits being excellent fertility
symbols, they were often heavily involved , a practice that STILL exists !
( this must really irk those Christians that are educated enough to know
this ). The Romans ( once again for political reasons ) simply saw it as a
perfect way to mix Christ's resurrection ( renewal ) into an already
existing holiday.
MA
Does Schrödinger's cat have 18 half lives ?
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
05 Jan 2004 02:34:28 PM |
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"Masked Avenger" <cootey59@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bt959l$ntk$1@austar-news.austar.net.au>...
--
"Michael W. Moss" <mosspier@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:74addd13.0401032310.366c784e@posting.google.com...
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born. That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
WRONG !
get your facts straight .......'gift giving' was part of the 'pagan'
celebrations that Christianity hijacked. These Winter Solstice ( dec. 22
nd ) celebrations occur in many cultures, the Romans were no exception.
They already had a 'holiday' which involved gift giving on Dec 25 long
before Christianity was ever thought of. This day was declared Christ's
birthday for political reasons by one of their Emperors ( Constantine, I
think ) in the 4th century.
The origins of Christmas are quite uncertain. No such edict exists,
that much is clear.
I suggest you research the 'Council of Nicaea'
circa 325 AD, for a few facts about the reasons that the Roman Empire
adopted Christianity and the Bible is the way it is... a blood curdling tale
if ever there was one.
Well, I have read every scrap written in antiquity about the council,
and I find no such story there. I'm afraid this is a modern smear.
The same goes for Easter, in fact this one is even easier to show, Easter
( the word basically means EGG ) was the pagan pre-christian celebration of
Life's renewal in Spring, eggs and rabbits being excellent fertility
symbols, they were often heavily involved , a practice that STILL exists !
It may surprise you, but eggs and bunnies are a *modern* custom.
( this must really irk those Christians that are educated enough to know
this ).
I think you mean, 'uneducated'. Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
The Romans ( once again for political reasons ) simply saw it as a
perfect way to mix Christ's resurrection ( renewal ) into an already
existing holiday.
I'm afraid this is all nonsense. The celebration of Easter is
recorded in the Greek church, long before the church became legal.
Perhaps you should ask yourself just why the people who are so willing
to pass laws about racism, this-ism, that-ism, are so very happy to
allow the most foolish defamation to circulate about Christian
origins. Are you willing to believe this is for your benefit?
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
05 Jan 2004 08:33:11 PM |
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On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 05:28:56 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<6h7kvv4nl6ct5g880j62tas1ffaesf33a8@Pern.rk>...
On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
I'm not sure whether it is your lack of education, lack of honesty, or
lack of manners that is the more evident.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 09:22:54 PM |
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On 6 Jan 2004 03:28:56 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<6h7kvv4nl6ct5g880j62tas1ffaesf33a8@Pern.rk>...
On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
I'm not sure whether it is your lack of education, lack of honesty, or
lack of manners that is the more evident.
Your posting religious crap in alt.atheism and talking about manners?
I'll assume that you don't have the intelligence to know better.
--
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Roger Pearse" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
07 Jan 2004 05:21:46 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<3pumvvod59a2h9mrib2qb5lrjuedsc42r0@Pern.rk>...
On 6 Jan 2004 03:28:56 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<6h7kvv4nl6ct5g880j62tas1ffaesf33a8@Pern.rk>...
On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
I'm not sure whether it is your lack of education, lack of honesty, or
lack of manners that is the more evident.
Your posting religious crap in alt.atheism and talking about manners?
I'll assume that you don't have the intelligence to know better.
Going for all three, in two sentences? <chuckle>
All the best,
Roger Pearse
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
07 Jan 2004 08:23:07 PM |
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On 7 Jan 2004 03:21:46 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<3pumvvod59a2h9mrib2qb5lrjuedsc42r0@Pern.rk>...
On 6 Jan 2004 03:28:56 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<6h7kvv4nl6ct5g880j62tas1ffaesf33a8@Pern.rk>...
On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
I'm not sure whether it is your lack of education, lack of honesty, or
lack of manners that is the more evident.
Your posting religious crap in alt.atheism and talking about manners?
I'll assume that you don't have the intelligence to know better.
Going for all three, in two sentences? <chuckle>
No, just pointing out that you won the prize for all 3 - and for lack
of reading comprehension.
--
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 09:29:00 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:22:54 -0500, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 6 Jan 2004 03:28:56 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<6h7kvv4nl6ct5g880j62tas1ffaesf33a8@Pern.rk>...
On 5 Jan 2004 12:34:28 -0800, (Roger Pearse)
posted to alt.atheism:
Those of us with a classical
education marvel at the gullibility of the heathen of our day in
believing such obviously malicious fairy-tales.
Those of us with a classical education marvel at those who still
believe in the supernatural.
I'm not sure whether it is your lack of education, lack of honesty, or
lack of manners that is the more evident.
Your posting religious crap in alt.atheism and talking about manners?
I'll assume that you don't have the intelligence to know better.
Why doesn't it surprise me that Pearse is "in" Gastric's newsgroup?
But like far too many theists he has a huge beam in his eyes. They
imagine they can be in-your-face nasty to atheists and we're supposed
to put up with it
.
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| User: "dave e" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 08:17:29 AM |
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(Michael W. Moss) wrote in message news:<74addd13.0401032310.366c784e@posting.google.com>...
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born. That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
What is your source?
According to this article (http://www.illusen.co.uk/gladegazette/)
gift giving around the winter solstace traces back to certain Pagan
traditions, which the early church frowned on. Until the time of the
Middle Ages, it was more common to give gifts on New Year's Day or
Twelfth Night. According to this article, it almost seems as if "The
Gifts of the Magi" was used as an excuse by the church in order to
allow continuation of the Pagan tradition.
Of course many "Christian" traditions trace their origins to earlier
Pagan traditions- traditions associated with Births, Deaths, Easter,
Christmas, all have pre-Christian, Pagan origins. Does that mean that
Christians believe the Pagan religions? Of course not! (But
according to your logic, re: Atheists who sing Christmas songs,
Christians who engage in Pagan traditions must also be Pagans)
Dave
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
04 Jan 2004 07:51:02 AM |
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On 3 Jan 2004 23:10:57 -0800, (Michael W. Moss)
wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born. That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
People exchanged gifts during the Saturnalia, the festival co-opted by
Christianity. That is where the gift giving came from. That is also
why it is done in December.
Thomas P.
None of the Emperor's clothes had been so successful before.
"But he has got nothing on," said a little child.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
06 Jan 2004 05:50:27 PM |
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On 3 Jan 2004 23:10:57 -0800, (Michael W. Moss),
Message ID: <74addd13.0401032310.366c784e@posting.google.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message news:<v7kevvohia47qs8cs51qg03dkeb5ll2r3e@Pern.rk>...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:58:41 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> posted to
alt.atheism:
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
You believe ... in Gifts.
So did the wise man that came into the barn after Jesus was born.
The action in the fictional tale demonstrates the people wre not wise.
That
is where the Gift giving at Christmas time came from
For the stolen holiday, yes. Gift giving and celebrations are ancient
and have nothing to do with the Pagan monstrosity called Christianity.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Martin Crisp" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 03:33:08 PM |
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 7:58:41 +1100, Liz wrote
(in message <t1bevv4smjm5ivqb8upntpst4hs32allut@4ax.com>):
[...]
I guess you can tell a lot about my beliefs if I sing "Rudolph, the
Red-Nosed Reindeer", "Frosty, the Snowman", and "Santa Claus is Coming
to Town".
Somehow I managed not to get stuck with any of the traditional
xmas songs in my head this year. I did hear Weird Al Yankovic's
_The Night Santa Went Crazy_ quite a number of times, though.
http://www.lyricsfind.com/lyrics/43/432.php
Have Fun
Martin
--
aa #1792
Almost always SMASHed
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| User: "Uncle Davey" |
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| Title: Re: Atheists that sing Christmas Songs |
03 Jan 2004 02:17:34 PM |
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Uzytkownik "Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> napisal w wiadomosci
news:pan.2004.01.03.17.21.06.603273@il.huh...
And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss speak
thusly:
I am curious as I know several folks that though they are Atheists,
they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about the
God they say they don't believe in.
Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?
What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence on
culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?
Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
I only use Norse names when I'm speaking English, or German. When I'm
speaking any Slavic language, then I don't.
In Russian, it's
The starter of the week - ponedyelnik
The seconder - vtornik
The middle - sreda
The fourther - chetverg
The fifthie - pyatnitsa
The Sabbath - subbota
The Resurrection - voskresenie
Hth.
Uncle Davey
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