"Michael W. Moss" <mosspier@insightbb.com> wrote in message
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dgenglish@hotmail.com (dave e) wrote in message

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mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote in message

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"Mark K. Bilbo" <noem@il.huh> wrote in message

news:<pan.2004.01.03.17.21.06.603273@il.huh>...

And so upon Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:15:00 -0800 didst Michael W. Moss

speak

thusly:

I am curious as I know several folks that though they are

Atheists,

they still participate in singing Christmas Carols which are about

the

God they say they don't believe in.

Any other atheists that post here that do this? And if so, why? I
thought Atheists Did Not believe in God?

What would be the big deal? Mythology has always been an influence

on

culture. It's just part of a cultural heritage. What of it?

Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that

mean you

believe in Thor?

Like I said, if Atheists so strongly disbelieve in Jesus, why do they
sing the songs about Jesus at Christmas Time?

You really haven't read the responses so far, have you? Nor have you
really thought much about this question. Nor, I suspect, have you
ever talked to a real live atheist about their beliefs and actually
listened to them.

On the contrary, I have worked with many atheists over the last few
years. Most of them avoid singing Christmas music altogether because
they don't believe in it. The only other times I seen an atheist
singing Christmas songs was because we were with a large number of
children and they were singing along. However, that was a rare thing
so there are a few out there that do I guess just to sing along. But
that isn't what I was trying to get at. What I am trying to get at is
why would ANY atheist want to even sing a song about Jesus if they are
so convienced that he never existed? I hear so many atheists screaming
during debates "He never existed, God is a fairy tale" but then will
still sing about it like they have no problem with what the songs are
about. It's seems a bit contradictory to me.

Does every Christian who listens to the Beetles believe in Eastern
Mysticism?

I personally don't listen to the Beatles. I can't speak for everyone
who does.

Does every summer camp attendee who sings the Village People "YMCA"
song, really think that it's fun to cruise for boys at the local gym?

I never thought that and I have sung that song many times. But I am
not comparing a homosexual guy to God though. That is quite a large
comparision

Does every Catholic who sings a Protestant song, or every Protestant
who sings a Catholic song secretly belong to the alternate faith?

They are both singing about Jesus. What's the "real" difference?

Does every person who sings "Puff the Magic Dragon" really believe in
dragons?

Dragons do exist though(Much smaller of course) Dragons also existed
in the past as much larger creatures. They didn't breathe fire of
course ;)

And has it ever occurred to you that the Atheists who do co-opt your
Jesus Songs are, in a way, mocking your deepest held beliefs? Yes,
that must be the real reason why Atheists sing Jesus songs. To mock
Jesus. To make fun of you personally. They are all mocking you.
Mock. Mock. Mock. Mocking Jesus. Mock. Mock. Mock. And do you know
how you should respond? By shouting at them, and telling them that
they will burn in Hell for eternity, to pay for their mocking ways.

Yes. That would be an appropriate response on your part.

Dave

I have had atheists sing Christian songs to my face in the past and
they were 100% mocking my faith. So that can definately happen. I
didn't yell at them and tell them they are going to Burn in Hell
though. I walked away and lived to fight another day. I say "fight"
but I have never gotten into a physical fight with anyone. I don't
believe that solves anything.

So on that, I would say some do and some don't. But like I said, why
would they never BOTHER singing about something they so strongly
disbelive in, that's all.

Michael,

Do you have to be hit over the head with facts before you accept an answer ?
I have seen MANY reasons posted here explaining why atheists sing Christmas
songs........in a Nut shell....atheists don't care what they sing at
Christmas....if it sounds good and fits into the general buzz of the
season...go for it....... we don't believe in fairy tales but still tell
them to our children...........
why do you have a problem with this ?

MA
Does Schrödinger's cat have 18 half lives ?

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote in message news:<74addd13.0401042048.4a40e9d8@posting.google.com>...

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote in message news:<74addd13.0401032301.6ba8eb39@posting.google.com>...

snip

Do you call the days of the week by their Norse names? Does that mean you
believe in Thor?

Like I said, if Atheists so strongly disbelieve in Jesus, why do they
sing the songs about Jesus at Christmas Time?

You really haven't read the responses so far, have you? Nor have you
really thought much about this question. Nor, I suspect, have you
ever talked to a real live atheist about their beliefs and actually
listened to them.

On the contrary, I have worked with many atheists over the last few
years. Most of them avoid singing Christmas music altogether because
they don't believe in it. The only other times I seen an atheist
singing Christmas songs was because we were with a large number of
children and they were singing along. However, that was a rare thing
so there are a few out there that do I guess just to sing along. But
that isn't what I was trying to get at. What I am trying to get at is
why would ANY atheist want to even sing a song about Jesus if they are
so convienced that he never existed? I hear so many atheists screaming
during debates "He never existed, God is a fairy tale" but then will
still sing about it like they have no problem with what the songs are
about. It's seems a bit contradictory to me.

Well then, you already know one reason why Atheists might sing
Christmas songs (summarized from your post above)
1. They feel pressured to sing, because everyone else is doing it

And some answers provided by other posters
2. They enjoy the music, and aren't bothered by the fact that
they don't accept the literal truth of the words.
3. They don't accept the literal truth of the words, but do take
some non-literal meaning from the songs.
4. They aren't the sort of atheists who go about screaming "God
never existed, God is a fairy tale", but rather they are the more
common, quieter sort of atheist, who follow the "live and let live
philosophy" that God doesn't exist, but if someone else wants to
believe, that's OK.

It sounds like you have encountered a lot of millitant atheists, who
feel it is necessary to always prosthyletize atheism. Perhaps you
haven't been exposed to the quieter, less millitant atheists within
your community. In my experience, those Atheists greatly outnumber
the millitant types.

snip

Does every person who sings "Puff the Magic Dragon" really believe in
dragons?

Dragons do exist though(Much smaller of course) Dragons also existed
in the past as much larger creatures. They didn't breathe fire of
course ;)

"Dragons", as the term is commonly applied in folklore do NOT exist,
and have never existed. Some lizards are called "Dragons", but this
is a different meaning altogether.

snip

I have had atheists sing Christian songs to my face in the past and
they were 100% mocking my faith. So that can definately happen. I
didn't yell at them and tell them they are going to Burn in Hell
though. I walked away and lived to fight another day. I say "fight"
but I have never gotten into a physical fight with anyone. I don't
believe that solves anything.

So on that, I would say some do and some don't. But like I said, why
would they never BOTHER singing about something they so strongly
disbelive in, that's all.

I was mostly kidding about atheists using Christmas songs to mock your
faith. I'm sure it happens, sometimes, but really I think that most
Atheists who sing Christmas songs aren't doing it with malice.

An Atheist who openly _hates_ religion probably wouldn't be singing a
Christmas song. But in my experience, most Atheists don't _hate_
religion. They just don't accept religion as literal truth. There is
nothing which would prevent them from singing Christmas songs, any
more than there is anything which prevents them from reading Greek
Mythology or Arthurian legends.

If you still have difficulty understanding this, I think it is because
you have not had enough exposure to the full range of beliefs and
value systems which come under the title "Atheism". Next week visit a
Unitarian Church, instead of your own, and talk to some of the people
you meet about their beliefs. The more ideas one is exposed to (as a
Christian, or as an Atheist) the more accepting one becomes of
alternate beliefs.

Dave

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote on Mon, 05 Jan 2004
04:48:07 GMT in alt.atheism:

I hear so many atheists screaming
during debates "He never existed, God is a fairy tale" but then will
still sing about it like they have no problem with what the songs are
about. It's seems a bit contradictory to me.

Maybe they just like the song?

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote on Mon, 05 Jan 2004
04:48:07 GMT in alt.atheism:

I hear so many atheists screaming
during debates "He never existed, God is a fairy tale" but then will
still sing about it like they have no problem with what the songs are
about. It's seems a bit contradictory to me.

Maybe they just like the song?

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote on Mon, 05 Jan 2004
04:48:07 GMT in alt.atheism:

I hear so many atheists screaming
during debates "He never existed, God is a fairy tale" but then will
still sing about it like they have no problem with what the songs are
about. It's seems a bit contradictory to me.

Maybe they just like the song?

Here I go feeding the troll . . .

mosspier@insightbb.com (Michael W. Moss) wrote in message news:<74addd13.0401042048.4a40e9d8@posting.google.com>...

dgenglish@hotmail.com (dave e) wrote in message news:<10ffa4e4.0401041030.68132239@posting.google.com>...

Does every summer camp attendee who sings the Village People "YMCA"
song, really think that it's fun to cruise for boys at the local gym?

I never thought that and I have sung that song many times. But I am
not comparing a homosexual guy to God though. That is quite a large
comparision

<giggles>

Does every Catholic who sings a Protestant song, or every Protestant
who sings a Catholic song secretly belong to the alternate faith?

They are both singing about Jesus. What's the "real" difference?

As an ex-Catholic, I say, pope you!

Heh, brings back the memories. Long ago when I was in a church choir
at this particular parish, the pastor used to go livid when we sang "A
Mighty Fortress Is Our God."

The floodgates were opened, post Vatican II. We sing all these
Protestant hymns, and evil pagan "carols" and so on. So sad. (Funny, I
still kinda consider myself Catholic, and think Protestants suck. Like
sports teams or something. But twisted.)

Meanwhile I've run across some websites where evangelicals were
dredging up old Catholic liturgy and recycling it. Pretty funny.

So on that, I would say some do and some don't. But like I said, why
would they never BOTHER singing about something they so strongly
disbelive in, that's all.

They like the tune?

What are you hoping for when you repeat this silly question over and
over? That some atheist is going to say "Oh my God! I've been
believing in Jesus all along! I repent! Please minister to me, Micheal
Moss, Man of God! I'm so grateful to you for showing me the light!"

Hmm, wouldn't be surprised if such a post *does* show up within the
next 48 hours . . .

<eg>

-Hypatia Kosh

On 4 Jan 2004 20:48:07 -0800,

Does every summer camp attendee who sings the Village People "YMCA"
song, really think that it's fun to cruise for boys at the local gym?

I never thought that and I have sung that song many times. But I am
not comparing a homosexual guy to God though. That is quite a large
comparision

You don't get to have it both ways, Michael. You question athiests
for singing a song with "god" in it, but you don't question a
hetrosexual about singing a song about Gay men cruising each other at
a gym.

The comparison is perfectly acceptable. YOU (presumably hetrosexual)
sing about the fun you can have at the YMCA because you like the song.
Why can't an Athiest sing about a little boy rum-pa-pa-pa'ming on his
drum for baby jesus?

It's either a double standard or hypocritical... your choice.

James, Seattle