| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
05 Dec 2003 10:57:38 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
(Woody Brison) wrote:
desertphile@whitehouse.gov (Desertphile) wrote in message news:<bqldhu$22ie5s$2@ID-197010.news.uni-berlin.de>...
The LDS cult has hundreds of millions of liquid dollars, and more in
property.
I expect so. Latter-day Saints pay 10 percent of their
income to the Church. It's called tithing, standard
procedure in the Lord's plan.
It's also called "fraud." Sell the ignorant rubes the fictitious curse
called "sin" and then sell the a fictituous "cure" called "salvation."
It's no different than Scientology selling the ignorant rubes a bridge.
In a just society all such frauds would net the crooks prison time.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
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| User: "Desertphile" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Dec 2003 04:41:21 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
wwbrison@lds.net (Woody Brison) wrote:
desertphile@whitehouse.gov (Desertphile) wrote in message
news:<bqldhu$22ie5s$2@ID-197010.news.uni-berlin.de>...
The LDS cult has hundreds of millions of liquid dollars, and more in
property.
I expect so. Latter-day Saints pay 10 percent of their
income to the Church. It's called tithing, standard
procedure in the Lord's[sic] plan.
I had no idea Joseph Smith was a lord! Golly! Who would have ever
known?!
It's also called "fraud." Sell the ignorant rubes the fictitious curse
called "sin" and then sell the a fictituous "cure" called "salvation."
It's no different than Scientology selling the ignorant rubes a bridge.
In a just society all such frauds would net the crooks prison time.
Constant "tithing" is anti-Biblical.
Genesis 14:20 says that tithes were given to the male gods; Leviticus
27:30-32 says to the desert war god YHWH, as does Numbers 18:26-28 (a
demonic Satan-inspired book if ever there was one!) and Deuteronomy 12
& 14. These tithes, on corn, millet, fruit, and animal flesh, were to
be burned so that the smoke could reach the gods.
A "tithe" originally existed to feed the priests (i.e., parasites)
because the priests were too fat, lazy, corrupt, and larcenous to work
for a living (see, for example, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, et al).
2 Chronicles 31, Nehemiah 10 & 13, Amos 4, Malachi 3, and Hebrews 7
are where tithing is for the feeding of priests.
Once Saul of Tarsus created Christianity, avarice and greed took over,
of course, and the tithes eventually included land, textiles, cattle,
slaves, trade goods, dyes, salt, sea shells, and metal. This was also
true with some of the Pagan influences of Christianity: Mithraism and
Helenized Judaism. Ancient priests went from being beggers with bowls,
to welfare leeches with palaces and swimming pools.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
--
http://desertphile.org
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
08 Dec 2003 09:55:38 PM |
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(Desertphile) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
wwbrison@lds.net (Woody Brison) wrote:
(Desertphile) wrote in message
news:<bqldhu$22ie5s$2@ID-197010.news.uni-berlin.de>...
The LDS cult has hundreds of millions of liquid dollars, and more in
property.
I expect so. Latter-day Saints pay 10 percent of their
income to the Church. It's called tithing, standard
procedure in the Lord's[sic] plan.
I had no idea Joseph Smith was a lord! Golly! Who would have ever
known?!
He was a conman fraud who used to sell the rubes fake Egyptian artifacts.
Reportedly the town clown used to sleep under walkways while drunk -- which
was almost all the time. The butt of everyone's jokes, townspeople helped
him in his delusions to the point where it wasn't funny any longer.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "toadmonkey" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
05 Dec 2003 11:39:53 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Miss your meds again?
TM
--
Toadmonkey: "Now now. Brain popping and world crashing may be hazardous to ones perception of reality.
Very dangerous business that can lead to madness or something worse for some, truth."
Remove "3+4" from addy before replying
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
06 Dec 2003 11:16:58 AM |
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(toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "toadmonkey" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
06 Dec 2003 06:11:58 PM |
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On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:58 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
html5lover@7yahoo.com (toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Ahhhh, but of course! You feel that you are under attack so you attackback!
Should have figured a bit o criticism would be met in such a manner by the
ignorant. Ignorant? You? Yep. Because I NEVER said I support Bush.
Saddam needed to be pulled from the get go. He was put into place courtesy of
our CIA. IOW a puppet. No country should have a puppet as a leader. Look at
Saddam and you'll see what I mean. The puppet does what it's master wants, then
gets a thorn in his hide with the idea of "freedom" rumbling throughout it's
head, and it rebels.
No country should have a puppet for it's leader. Not if they truly desire
freedom. Because having freedom means not having international inviolvement in
the internal operations of the nation administration.
Besides, this is alt.recovery.mormonism, not alt.recovery.politics. People come
here for guidance in recovering from mormonism.
TM
--
Toadmonkey: "Now now. Brain popping and world crashing may be hazardous to ones perception of reality.
Very dangerous business that can lead to madness or something worse for some, truth."
Remove "3+4" from addy before replying
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Dec 2003 11:13:31 AM |
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(toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:58 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
(toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
Ahhhh, but of course! You feel that you are under attack so you attackback!
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "toadmonkey" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Dec 2003 06:05:19 PM |
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On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:13:31 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
But, at least I can spell!
:)
--
Toadmonkey: "Now now. Brain popping and world crashing may be hazardous to ones perception of reality.
Very dangerous business that can lead to madness or something worse for some, truth."
Remove "3+4" from addy before replying
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
08 Dec 2003 09:55:41 PM |
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(toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:13:31 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
But, at least I can spell! :)
You're here to defend your insane buttfuck opinion that Saddam or Iraq
attacked New York, *****. Here ya' go, try again:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:58 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
(toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
Ahhhh, but of course! You feel that you are under attack so you attackback!
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "Ekim Namkraps" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Jan 2004 09:13:11 PM |
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Easy.....he allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorists organizations to train in
Iraq. They even had a plane's fuselage(sp?) the terrorists-in-training used
to learn how to overtake an aircraft. This was all done with Saddam's
knowledge and blessing.
One quick thing......you call Bush a baby-killer, yet I see nothing about
the true baby-killers of this country, the abortion doctors and the horrible
women that allow this unspeakable act to be performed on their bodies. The
doctors, nurses and the women who have the abortions are all murderers,
criminals and should rot in prison forever.
"Fredric L. Rice" <> wrote in message
news:vtai2p2pcdjv75@corp.supernews.com...
html5lover@7yahoo.com (toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:13:31 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice)
wrote:
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
But, at least I can spell! :)
You're here to defend your insane buttfuck opinion that Saddam or Iraq
attacked New York, *****. Here ya' go, try again:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:58 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice)
wrote:
html5lover@7yahoo.com (toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people
is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
Ahhhh, but of course! You feel that you are under attack so you
attackback!
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
---
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
08 Jan 2004 11:17:31 PM |
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"Ekim Namkraps" <notmyemail@knology.net> wrote:
Easy.....he allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorists organizations to train in
Iraq.
If you have such evidence, don't you think you oght to provide the
unelected fascist baby killing dictator with it? I mean, the fascists
have been looking for justification for their war crime atrocities
against humanity in Iraq and here you are hoarding it. If you know of
any such links, do your Fuhrer a favor and pick up the telephone and
let the baby killer know.
Thanks so much in advance for your prompt assistance.
As it is, this clown bought Bush's lies that Saddam was responsible for
the September 11'th attacks. He bought the lie because he's a buttfuck
stupid Republican who will believe anything a fascist tells them.
"Fredric L. Rice" < > wrote in message
news:vtai2p2pcdjv75@corp.supernews.com...
html5lover@7yahoo.com (toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:13:31 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
But, at least I can spell! :)
You're here to defend your insane buttfuck opinion that Saddam or Iraq
attacked New York, *****. Here ya' go, try again:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:58 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
html5lover@7yahoo.com (toadmonkey) wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 04:57:38 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Yes, George W. Bush is an unelected baby killing fascist dictator.
Those who are _against_ freedom call another's fight to be free
"terrorism."
Yep. And flying a 767 into the WTC and murdering thousands of people is somehow
fighting for freedom. Yeeeeah. Right. Gotcha. Uh huh.
Do you have any evidence that Iraq was involved in that in any way?
Right. You're a fucking moron who supports a baby killing fascist.
Ahhhh, but of course! You feel that you are under attack so you attackback!
No, *****, you were asked to defend your claim that Saddam was
responsible for the September 11'th attacks against the World Trade
Centers. Come on, *****, out with your evidence.
Right. You're a rightard Mormon buttfuck who bought the lies of
your Fuhrer and no amount of reason will sway you.
---
CAUTION: Reading these Scientology "secrets" will give you pneumonia:
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://w4u.eexi.gr/~antbos/XENU.HTM
And Saddam: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
"You should eat what you kill." -- Cannibal George W. Bush, KCBS, 1/Jan/04
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| User: "Patriotboy is Fair and Balanced" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Jan 2004 09:47:27 PM |
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On 07 Jan 2004, "Ekim Namkraps" <notmyemail@knology.net> posted
this:
Easy.....he allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorists organizations
to train in Iraq. They even had a plane's fuselage(sp?) the
terrorists-in-training used to learn how to overtake an
aircraft. This was all done with Saddam's knowledge and
blessing.
They were in the Northern Fly Zone and like the Kurds, effectively
outside of Saddam's control.
--
"In an age of Rambo patriotism, it is good to be reminded of
Capra patriotism--to remember that America is not just about
fighting and winning, but about defending our freedoms. If we
defeat the enemy at the cost of our own principles, who has won?"
--Roger Ebert
Gen. JC Christian, patriot, commentary:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
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| User: "Patriotboy is Fair and Balanced" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
07 Jan 2004 09:49:00 PM |
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On 07 Jan 2004, "Ekim Namkraps" <notmyemail@knology.net> posted
this:
Easy.....he allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorists organizations
to train in Iraq. They even had a plane's fuselage(sp?) the
terrorists-in-training used to learn how to overtake an
aircraft. This was all done with Saddam's knowledge and
blessing.
and btw, they weren't Al Qaeda. Not that it matters since they were
in territory nominally controlled by the Kurds and protected by our
air power.
--
"In an age of Rambo patriotism, it is good to be reminded of
Capra patriotism--to remember that America is not just about
fighting and winning, but about defending our freedoms. If we
defeat the enemy at the cost of our own principles, who has won?"
--Roger Ebert
Gen. JC Christian, patriot, commentary:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "Ekim Namkraps" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
08 Jan 2004 09:00:32 PM |
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Not true. This camp wasn't far below Baghdad. And there were Al Qaeda
members there, along with other terrorist organizations.
"Patriotboy is Fair and Balanced" <tim@somecallme.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9469C9FF1113Etimsomecallme@216.168.3.44...
On 07 Jan 2004, "Ekim Namkraps" <notmyemail@knology.net> posted
this:
Easy.....he allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorists organizations
to train in Iraq. They even had a plane's fuselage(sp?) the
terrorists-in-training used to learn how to overtake an
aircraft. This was all done with Saddam's knowledge and
blessing.
and btw, they weren't Al Qaeda. Not that it matters since they were
in territory nominally controlled by the Kurds and protected by our
air power.
--
"In an age of Rambo patriotism, it is good to be reminded of
Capra patriotism--to remember that America is not just about
fighting and winning, but about defending our freedoms. If we
defeat the enemy at the cost of our own principles, who has won?"
--Roger Ebert
Gen. JC Christian, patriot, commentary:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "Patriotboy is Fair and Balanced" |
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| Title: Re: Baptizing dead people for fun and profit |
09 Jan 2004 01:42:58 AM |
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On 08 Jan 2004, "Ekim Namkraps" <notmyemail@knology.net> posted
this:
Not true. This camp wasn't far below Baghdad. And there were
Al Qaeda members there, along with other terrorist
organizations.
Ansar al-Islam was the only terrorist organization operating in Iraq
that has been linked to Al Qaeda. They operated outside of Saddam's
control (see below).
The only possible terrorist organization that Saddam supported was
the anti-Iranian Mujahedeen-e-Khalq (MEK). It's arguable that they
are actually a "terrorist organization" because the Administration
wants to employ them to destabilze Iran and has already employed MEK
to gather intelligence on Iran's nuclear program. Certainly, the Bush
Administration wouldn't support terrorists, would they? See below
From "Patterns of Global Terrorism -2002"
Released by the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, US
Department of State:
"Ansar al-Islam (AI) a.k.a. Partisans of Islam, Helpers of Islam,
Supporters of Islam
Description
Ansar al-Islam is a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs
who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in northern
Iraq. It was formed in September 2001 and is closely allied with al-
Qaida. Its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan and now
provide safehaven to al-Qaida fighters fleeing Afghanistan. (Ansar
al-Islam was designated on 20 February 2003, under E.O. 13224. The
UNSCR 1267 Committee designated Ansar al-Islam pursuant to UNSCRs
1267, 1390, and 1455 on 27 February 2003.)
Activities
The group is challenging one of the two main Kurdish political
factions, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and has mounted
ambushes and attacks in PUK areas. AI members have been implicated in
assassinations and assassination attempts against PUK officials and
claim to have produced cyanide-based toxins, ricin, and alfatoxin.
Strength
Approximately 700 members.
Location/Area of Operation
Ansar al-Islam is based in northern Iraq near the Iranian border
outside Baghdad’s control.
External Aid
The group receives funding, training, equipment, and combat support
from al-Qaida."
http://snipurl.com/3qha
"The Iran Debate
Pentagon Eyes Massive Covert Attack on Iran
By Vince Cannistraro
"The Pentagon is considering a massive covert action program to
overthrow Iran's ruling ayatollahs as the only way to stop the
country's nuclear weapons ambitions, senior State Department and
Pentagon officials told ABCNEWS.
The proposal, which would include covert sponsorship of a group
currently deemed terrorist by the U.S. government, is not new, and
has not won favor with enough top officials to be acted upon.
But sources say it is a viable option that is getting a new look as
the administration ramps up its rhetoric against Iran, and it is
likely to be one of the top items on the agenda as high-level U.S.
policymakers meet today to discuss how to deal with the Islamic
republic.
The proposal, sources say, includes using all available points of
pressure on the Iranian regime, including backing armed Iranian
dissidents and employing the services of the Mujahedeen e Khalq, a
group currently branded as terrorist by the United States.
The MEK, which had been primarily supported by Iraq and was
responsible for numerous attacks inside Iran, agreed after the Iraq
war to a cease-fire with U.S. forces. And, as the State Department
insisted and the White House concurred, the group agreed to disarm,
but their forces are still in place and their weapons are in storage.
Sources said Pentagon officials specifically set aside a proposal to
reconstitute the MEK under a different banner and promote their armed
incursions into Iran, much as the MEK had been doing under Saddam.
The Pentagon officials argue that the MEK is disciplined, well-
trained, and an effective lever against the ayatollahs, and could be
renamed and placed under American clandestine guidance.
According to sources, the office of Doug Feith, undersecretary for
policy at the Department of Defense, argued that the MEK has not
targeted Americans since the 1970s, which is true, and was only put
on the terrorist list by the Clinton administration as a gesture to
improve relations with Iran.
The State Department argument was that MEK is on the terrorist list
and any failure to disarm it would be an act of hypocrisy, which was
the same line taken by the Iranians in confidential meetings that
have been ongoing in Geneva, until the United States recently cut
them off, sources said.
A Pentagon spokesman denied that such a plan was under consideration
by any senior officials in the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans and
Near Eastern South Asian Affairs, which covers Iran, and answers to
Feith. He could not, however, rule out discussions elsewhere within
the Department of Defense.
"It's not the Pentagon, but I cannot say unequivocally that it hasn't
been considered, or advocated, somewhere," said Lt. Col. David Lapan.
Register for weekly Insider e-mail updates here.
For the moment, this proposal is blocked, but will be revisited as
part of the greater proposal to institute massive covert action
against the ayatollahs, sources said.
This covert action program, which has not been approved or even
recommended by the so-called deputies committee of Paul Wolfowitz,
Richard Armitage, National Security Council Deputy Steven Hadley and
the deputy to the director of Central Intelligence, would include
intelligence collaboration with Iranian dissidents, as well as lethal
aid (i.e., guns and other military assistance to anti-Iranian
government elements, both inside and outside Iran).
The objective of the proposal to destabilize the Iranian government
is based on the belief that the religious hard-liners are opposed by
the majority of the Iranian population and any pressure would make
them crack -- a view that some analysts find dubious.
The debate over Iran comes after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on
Tuesday warned Iran against meddling in Iraq, and White House
spokesman Ari Fleischer described the Islamic republic's efforts to
root al Qaeda leaders out of the country as insufficient.
New accusations also surfaced this week from an Iranian opposition
group, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, that the
government has built a uranium-enrichment plant for bomb materials,
echoing existing charges from the United States.
Whether the Pentagon proposal gets to the point of a covert action
program is partly dependent on Iranian responses to U.S. demands,
such as turning over high-ranking al Qaeda lieutenant Saif Al-Adel
and closing down the alleged nuclear weapons program, sources said.
The State Department favors diplomatic and political pressure,
utilizing the International Atomic Energy Agency as one pressure
point on the nuclear program.
Whether or not that al Qaeda leaders will be handed over, as the
United States formally requested last week, depends on politics
within Iran.
There is an apparent debate under way in Iran between more hard-line
elements led by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamanei, and
moderates led by Iranian President Mohammad Khatami.
Khatami seems to argue that cooperation with the United States on al
Qaeda is necessary, and that Al-Adel should be turned over. The hard-
liners apparently are using the issue of protection of senior al
Qaeda as a tool against the pragmatists who wish to improve relations
with the United States.
Some senior American intelligence sources are optimistic that the
issue can be resolved in the United States' favor soon.
But the nuclear issue remains, and U.S. officials are apparently
divided on how imminent the threat is.
The Pentagon, and Vice President ***** Cheney, are said to believe
that Iran may have all the means necessary to build a nuclear bomb
without further foreign assistance, although CIA intelligence sources
say their assessments are at variance with these assumptions.
The intelligence agency apparently believes that Iran is trying to
build a bomb, but that it still needs help for parts of the program."
http://snipurl.com/3qhk
--
"it makes no more sense to launch an assault on our civil liberties
as the best way to get at terrorists than it did to launch an
invasion of Iraq as the best way to get at Osama Bin Laden."
--Al Gore
Gen. JC Christian, patriot, commentary:
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
.
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