Re: CA211.1: Popper on evolution's falsifiability



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "david ford"
Date: 16 Oct 2005 10:33:43 PM
Object: Re: CA211.1: Popper on evolution's falsifiability
J. J. Lodder wrote:

david ford <dford3@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:

I'm looking at Popper's 1978 article, page 346.
Does anybody here agree with this 1978 Popper paragraph?:
The theory of natural selection may be so
formulated that it is far from tautological.


OK

In this
case it is not only testable, but it turns out to be not
strictly universally true.


No idea if this is what Popper would have had in mind,
but it is certainly true in the sense
that 'survival of the fittest' can hold
in a statistical sense only.
And given that the numbers involved are relatively small
it is quite possible (and even inevitable)
that it isn't always the fittest who survive.

Who are "the fittest"?

It is the survivers who survive (tautological)
and it is the survivers who have had a slightly better chance
of doing so (highly non-trivial)

"it is the survivers who have had a slightly better chance of doing"
what, exactly?
"it is the survivers who have had a slightly better chance" than
exactly who/what "of doing" what?

There seem to be
exceptions, as with so many biological theories; and
considering the random character of the variations
on which natural selection operates, the occurrence
of exceptions is not surprising. Thus not all
phenomena of evolution are explained by natural
selection alone.


Popper seems a bit confused here.
The non-occurence (by chance) of a 'necessary' mutation
can't be a counterargument to natural selection.

What are 3 theoretical situations, that, if those situations existed,
the theory of natural selection would be seen to have been falsified?

Yet in every particular case it is a
challenging research programme to show how far
natural selection can possibly be held responsible
for the evolution of a particular organ or behavioural
programme.


Lo and behold: Popper as a comfirmed evolutionary biologist.
Too bad it was too late for him to start on a new carreer.

Do you think that the theory of natural selection can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?
Do you think that the intelligent design hypothesis can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?
ID as a challenging research program, draft 2
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129317540.779352.231140%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
.

User: "Robert J. Kolker"

Title: Re: CA211.1: Popper on evolution's falsifiability 17 Oct 2005 01:54:59 PM
david ford wrote:

Too bad it was too late for him to start on a new carreer.



Do you think that the theory of natural selection can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?

Yes indeed. That theory has given us some understand of how microbes
become resistant to our best anti-biotics.


Do you think that the intelligent design hypothesis can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?

No it can't because it predicts nothing and there is nothing to test or
falsify. But IDF makes a great theological programme.
It is the assertion of God without looking like a Creationist buffoon.
Bob Kolker
.
User: "david ford"

Title: Re: CA211.1: Popper on evolution's falsifiability 18 Oct 2005 01:27:05 PM
Robert J. Kolker wrote:

david ford wrote:


Do you think that the theory of natural selection can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?


Yes indeed. That theory has given us some understand of how microbes
become resistant to our best anti-biotics.

What else has the theory of natural selection "given us some
understand[ing] of"?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The "Conclusions" section of W.M. Ho (England's Open U., Dept of
Biology) and P.T. Saunders (London's Queen Elizabeth College, U. of
London, Dept of Mathematics) "Beyond Neo-Darwinism--An Epigenetic
Approach to Evolution" _Journal of Theoretical Biology_ 78: 573-91
(1979) opens with
It is now approximately half a century since the neo-Darwinian
synthesis was formulated. A great deal of research has been
carried on within the paradigm it defines. Yet the successes of
the theory are limited to the interpretation of the minutiae of
evolution, such as the adaptive change in coloration of moths;
while it has remarkably little to say on the questions which
interest us most, such as how there came to be moths in the first
place. We have argued here that the role of natural selection is
itself limited. It cannot adequately explain the diversity of
populations or of species; nor can it account for the origin of
new
species or for major evolutionary change.41
Along similar lines, in "Empirical Evolutionary Research Versus
Neo-Darwinian Speculation" _Systematic Zoology_ 29: 300-308 (1980),
Donn
E. Rosen (New York City's American Museum of Natural History, Dept of
Ichthyology) and Donald G. Buth (Los Angeles's U. of California, Dept
of
Biology) observe that "a half-century of neo-Darwinism" has
"contributed
no evidence about how there came to be 'horses and tigers and things.'"
1982 Saunders & Ho
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990131235540.126906A-100000%40umbc8.umbc.edu

Do you think that the intelligent design hypothesis can provide for a
"challenging research programme"?


No it can't because it predicts nothing and there is nothing to test or
falsify.

"it [the intelligent design hypothesis] predicts nothing"
Compare:
the listing of 13 items in "RTB's Human Origins Creation Model
Predictions" in
Rana, Fazale with Hugh Ross. 2005. _Who was Adam?: A Creation Model
Approach to the Origin of Man_, 51-52.
About the book:
http://www.reasons.org/shop/customer/product.php?productid=690&cat=0&page=1
What are some predictions of:
the theory of natural selection?
the hypothesis that [1949 Simpson]"man is the result of a purposeless
materialistic process that did not have him in mind"?
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Simpson cite in
Timeline of Materialism, Spontaneous Generation, and Blindwatchmaking
Views
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-348jecF47mfcjU1%40individual.net
1952 Goldschmidt on the theory of NS's "crazy-quilt" prediction
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1c67abe.0401271936.9a5dfd2%40posting.google.com
Essay on Problems with Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.LNX.4.10A.B3.10005310900310.17702-100000%40jabba.gl.umbc.edu

But IDF makes a great theological programme.

It is the assertion of God without looking like a Creationist buffoon.

Or IDiot.
Dobzhansky and Simpson on bigotry
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.4.10A.B3.9908202237180.716616-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
Feynman, R. Reid, and Berlinski on _ad hominems_
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.SGI.3.96A.990102235105.11328B-100000%40umbc9.umbc.edu
.



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