| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"robin" |
| Date: |
08 Mar 2005 02:57:56 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Can Homosexuals Change? |
Is the topic still alive?
Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However, as to "can
homosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing all the
time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river, that every
moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
ever-changing, growing, learning.
So, yes, we all change. And those heterosexuals (or homosexuals) who
refuse to change, grow, learn are only entrenching in a rigidity that
will harm themselves (while not helping others).
Second, the condemnation heaped on any divergent style or group or
philosophy (or sexual orientation) may some day backfire on the bullies
who take to themselves the right to do so.
Europe's Christian history is a pathetic record of forcing outcasts to
"repent" and convert, of stigmatizing outsiders, or anyone different,
of forcing Jews to wear a yellow badge of infamy, at the very time when
Jews were breathing life and inspiration into a continent badly in need
of it.
How different is the present stigmatizing of alternative sexual
attitudes, perspectives, honesty?
.
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
09 Mar 2005 12:28:20 AM |
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"robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: Is the topic still alive?
:
: Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However, as to
"can
: heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing all the
: time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river, that every
: moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: ever-changing, growing, learning.
:
: So, yes, we all change.
.
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| User: "Pat Harrington" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
09 Mar 2005 08:14:42 AM |
|
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"R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message news:<DM6dnbkDRfFpC7PfRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
"robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: Is the topic still alive?
:
: Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However, as to
"can
: heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing all the
: time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river, that every
: moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: ever-changing, growing, learning.
:
: So, yes, we all change.
Can heterosexuals change what? Can they change into birds? Can
they change their clothes? Can they change their sexual preferences?
Well, I would think if humans can change their preferences about
anything then anyone, irrespective of their original sexual
tendencies, could possibly change them. It's a different question,
though, than "Would they?" As Reb Tevye said, "A bird may fall in
love with a fish, but where would they live?"
.
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
09 Mar 2005 03:49:34 PM |
|
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Hrmm try reading the post that I REPLIED TO.
It implied that homosexuals can change and become heterosexuals.
If that premise is true then heterosexuals can change and become
homosexuals.
"Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7517a083.0503090614.cfbfc01@posting.google.com...
: "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
news:<DM6dnbkDRfFpC7PfRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
: > "robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > : Is the topic still alive?
: > :
: > : Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However, as to
: > "can
: > : heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing all
the
: > : time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river, that
every
: > : moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: > : ever-changing, growing, learning.
: > :
: > : So, yes, we all change.
:
: Can heterosexuals change what? Can they change into birds? Can
: they change their clothes? Can they change their sexual preferences?
: Well, I would think if humans can change their preferences about
: anything then anyone, irrespective of their original sexual
: tendencies, could possibly change them. It's a different question,
: though, than "Would they?" As Reb Tevye said, "A bird may fall in
: love with a fish, but where would they live?"
.
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| User: "Pat Harrington" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 08:03:38 AM |
|
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"R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message news:<buednSSK7evd8rLfRVn-og@comcast.com>...
Hrmm try reading the post that I REPLIED TO.
It implied that homosexuals can change and become heterosexuals.
If that premise is true then heterosexuals can change and become
homosexuals.
The main point I was trying to make was, of course they can
change. I don't doubt that there are genetic predispositions to
sexual preference but I would find it a ridiculous argument to say
that environmental factors couldn't play a role as well. Many
fetishes are affected by experience. I could see quite easily that,
if a person's first sexual encounter was one in which they were
"taken"--yet they liked it--they might well wish to be dominated in
later encounters. People are creatures of habit. If you do something
and you like it, chances are you'll do it again, irrespective of
societal conventions. It's all part of human expression.
The other point I was making was that we humans may like certain
things that are just too far out to be worthwhile. The "asphyxia
enhanced orgasm", for example, comes with the risk that you might just
go shortly after coming. There are scatophagics out there that risk
cholera and worse for a good orgasm. Necrophiliac practices probably
aren't all that healthy, at least for the living partner. These kind
of tendencies aren't particularly healthy AT ALL. There's no way to
have safe sexual practices with them.
"Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7517a083.0503090614.cfbfc01@posting.google.com...
: "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
news:<DM6dnbkDRfFpC7PfRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
: > "robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > : Is the topic still alive?
: > :
: > : Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However, as to
: > "can
: > : heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing all
the
: > : time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river, that
every
: > : moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: > : ever-changing, growing, learning.
: > :
: > : So, yes, we all change.
:
: Can heterosexuals change what? Can they change into birds? Can
: they change their clothes? Can they change their sexual preferences?
: Well, I would think if humans can change their preferences about
: anything then anyone, irrespective of their original sexual
: tendencies, could possibly change them. It's a different question,
: though, than "Would they?" As Reb Tevye said, "A bird may fall in
: love with a fish, but where would they live?"
.
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 04:11:43 PM |
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Orientation and fetish are not the same thing.
You can deny your orientation, you can hide it, you can lie about it,
you may never act upon it, but you cannot change it.
"Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7517a083.0503100603.632ed4d1@posting.google.com...
: "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
news:<buednSSK7evd8rLfRVn-og@comcast.com>...
: > Hrmm try reading the post that I REPLIED TO.
: >
: > It implied that homosexuals can change and become heterosexuals.
: >
: > If that premise is true then heterosexuals can change and become
: > homosexuals.
: >
: >
:
: The main point I was trying to make was, of course they can
: change. I don't doubt that there are genetic predispositions to
: sexual preference but I would find it a ridiculous argument to say
: that environmental factors couldn't play a role as well. Many
: fetishes are affected by experience. I could see quite easily that,
: if a person's first sexual encounter was one in which they were
: "taken"--yet they liked it--they might well wish to be dominated in
: later encounters. People are creatures of habit. If you do something
: and you like it, chances are you'll do it again, irrespective of
: societal conventions. It's all part of human expression.
: The other point I was making was that we humans may like certain
: things that are just too far out to be worthwhile. The "asphyxia
: enhanced orgasm", for example, comes with the risk that you might just
: go shortly after coming. There are scatophagics out there that risk
: cholera and worse for a good orgasm. Necrophiliac practices probably
: aren't all that healthy, at least for the living partner. These kind
: of tendencies aren't particularly healthy AT ALL. There's no way to
: have safe sexual practices with them.
:
: >
: >
: > "Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:7517a083.0503090614.cfbfc01@posting.google.com...
: > : "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
: > news:<DM6dnbkDRfFpC7PfRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
: > : > "robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > : > news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > : > : Is the topic still alive?
: > : > :
: > : > : Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However,
as to
: > : > "can
: > : > : heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing
all
: > the
: > : > : time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river,
that
: > every
: > : > : moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: > : > : ever-changing, growing, learning.
: > : > :
: > : > : So, yes, we all change.
: > :
: > : Can heterosexuals change what? Can they change into birds?
Can
: > : they change their clothes? Can they change their sexual
preferences?
: > : Well, I would think if humans can change their preferences about
: > : anything then anyone, irrespective of their original sexual
: > : tendencies, could possibly change them. It's a different
question,
: > : though, than "Would they?" As Reb Tevye said, "A bird may fall in
: > : love with a fish, but where would they live?"
.
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| User: "Pat Harrington" |
|
| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
11 Mar 2005 07:24:43 AM |
|
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"R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message news:<P4WdnVFxz6hlWK3fRVn-1g@comcast.com>...
Orientation and fetish are not the same thing.
You can deny your orientation, you can hide it, you can lie about it,
you may never act upon it, but you cannot change it.
I believe science still has an open verdict regarding it.
"Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7517a083.0503100603.632ed4d1@posting.google.com...
: "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
news:<buednSSK7evd8rLfRVn-og@comcast.com>...
: > Hrmm try reading the post that I REPLIED TO.
: >
: > It implied that homosexuals can change and become heterosexuals.
: >
: > If that premise is true then heterosexuals can change and become
: > homosexuals.
: >
: >
:
: The main point I was trying to make was, of course they can
: change. I don't doubt that there are genetic predispositions to
: sexual preference but I would find it a ridiculous argument to say
: that environmental factors couldn't play a role as well. Many
: fetishes are affected by experience. I could see quite easily that,
: if a person's first sexual encounter was one in which they were
: "taken"--yet they liked it--they might well wish to be dominated in
: later encounters. People are creatures of habit. If you do something
: and you like it, chances are you'll do it again, irrespective of
: societal conventions. It's all part of human expression.
: The other point I was making was that we humans may like certain
: things that are just too far out to be worthwhile. The "asphyxia
: enhanced orgasm", for example, comes with the risk that you might just
: go shortly after coming. There are scatophagics out there that risk
: cholera and worse for a good orgasm. Necrophiliac practices probably
: aren't all that healthy, at least for the living partner. These kind
: of tendencies aren't particularly healthy AT ALL. There's no way to
: have safe sexual practices with them.
:
: >
: >
: > "Pat Harrington" <PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > news:7517a083.0503090614.cfbfc01@posting.google.com...
: > : "R?ain - ריעין" <riain@riain.com> wrote in message
: > news:<DM6dnbkDRfFpC7PfRVn-tw@comcast.com>...
: > : > "robin" <rs2405@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > : > news:1110315476.727583.156560@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > : > : Is the topic still alive?
: > : > :
: > : > : Too much depth there to really digest at this time. However,
as to
: > : > "can
: > : > : heterosexuals change" -- I think (one) all of us are changing
all
: > the
: > : > : time. Aren't we told by philosophers that Life is a river,
that
: > every
: > : > : moment of every day each of us (the live ones, anyway) are
: > : > : ever-changing, growing, learning.
: > : > :
: > : > : So, yes, we all change.
: > :
: > : Can heterosexuals change what? Can they change into birds?
Can
: > : they change their clothes? Can they change their sexual
preferences?
: > : Well, I would think if humans can change their preferences about
: > : anything then anyone, irrespective of their original sexual
: > : tendencies, could possibly change them. It's a different
question,
: > : though, than "Would they?" As Reb Tevye said, "A bird may fall in
: > : love with a fish, but where would they live?"
.
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| User: "Saban" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
09 Mar 2005 05:33:50 PM |
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Can homoexuals change?
Can heterosexuals change?
Can pedophiles change?
Can people practicing incest change?
Can people practicing beastiality change?
What about fetishes? Feet, shoes, breasts, buts, bondage, hats, smoking
etc.
To claim that people are born with their sexual preference and cannot
change, would one also be suggesting that pedophiles are born with a
desire for children, and therefore the rehabilitation system is a
farce?
Yes no maybe so? Put the pedophiles in jail, let the homosexuals run
rampant?
As long as they're 18 or older anything goes...
Why can't brothers and sisters marry? They love each other!
Should people be allowed to marry their pets? At least have sex with
them? What if there's a true conenction there! Can they change their
preference?
Let's hear a hoorah for our society of democracy and equal rights!
It was good while it lasted...
.
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
09 Mar 2005 07:35:07 PM |
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You are a blathering idiot!
Sexual Orientation in not an illness, why paedophilia is a mental
illness.
Fetishes are perfectly normal and healthy as long as they aren't not
harming anyone and if it involved other people they are adults and able
to give consent.
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110411230.169881.172250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
: Can homoexuals change?
: Can heterosexuals change?
: Can pedophiles change?
: Can people practicing incest change?
: Can people practicing beastiality change?
:
: What about fetishes? Feet, shoes, breasts, buts, bondage, hats,
smoking
: etc.
:
: To claim that people are born with their sexual preference and cannot
: change, would one also be suggesting that pedophiles are born with a
: desire for children, and therefore the rehabilitation system is a
: farce?
:
: Yes no maybe so? Put the pedophiles in jail, let the homosexuals run
: rampant?
: As long as they're 18 or older anything goes...
:
: Why can't brothers and sisters marry? They love each other!
:
: Should people be allowed to marry their pets? At least have sex with
: them? What if there's a true conenction there! Can they change their
: preference?
:
: Let's hear a hoorah for our society of democracy and equal rights!
: It was good while it lasted...
:
.
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| User: "Saban" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 11:50:35 AM |
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R?ain - =F8=E9=F2=E9=EF wrote:
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110411230.169881.172250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Can homoexuals change?
Can heterosexuals change?
Can pedophiles change?
Can people practicing incest change?
Can people practicing beastiality change?
What about fetishes? Feet, shoes, breasts, buts, bondage, hats,
smoking etc.
To claim that people are born with their sexual preference and
cannot
change, would one also be suggesting that pedophiles are born with
a
desire for children, and therefore the rehabilitation system is a
farce?
Yes no maybe so? Put the pedophiles in jail, let the homosexuals
run
rampant?
As long as they're 18 or older anything goes...
Why can't brothers and sisters marry? They love each other!
Should people be allowed to marry their pets? At least have sex
with
them? What if there's a true conenction there! Can they change
their
preference?
Let's hear a hoorah for our society of democracy and equal rights!
It was good while it lasted...
You are a blathering idiot!
Sexual Orientation in not an illness, why paedophilia is a mental
illness.
Fetishes are perfectly normal and healthy as long as they aren't not
harming anyone and if it involved other people they are adults and
able
to give consent.
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses and
which are not.
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 11:47:42 PM |
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"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110477035.559101.309670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses and
which are not.
*************
Idiot, concent & medical dangers play a factor in deciding what is/not a
perversion.
But like most bigots, you;re not smart enough to think of that before you
shoot off your hateful mouth.
********
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
**************
Grow up.
Susan
.
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| User: "Saban" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
11 Mar 2005 01:19:47 AM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110477035.559101.309670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault
for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as
both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses
and
which are not.
*************
Idiot, concent & medical dangers play a factor in deciding what
is/not a
perversion.
But like most bigots, you;re not smart enough to think of that before
you
shoot off your hateful mouth.
********
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
**************
Grow up.
Susan
It's ok little Susie =). Do I hear Dr. Monthly knocking? But please
dont claim that I'm a bigot or hateful based on something as tame as
what my post was up there. I didn't even mention perversion in what you
quoted. I was asking a simple question. So what have you learned?
Either read what your argueing against, or don't post =D.
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine, that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into it and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong, even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
How can people be born with one and cannot change, where as being born
with the other is simply a disease, that CAN be treated. I'm not saying
which side is wrong, but certainly one or both must be.
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
13 Mar 2005 03:36:56 AM |
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"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110523499.563354.317700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Susan Cohen wrote:
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110477035.559101.309670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault
for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as
both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses
and
which are not.
*************
Idiot, consent & medical dangers play a factor in deciding what
is/not a
perversion.
But like most bigots, you're not smart enough to think of that before
you
shoot off your hateful mouth.
********
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
**************
Grow up.
Susan
It's ok little Susie =). Do I hear Dr. Monthly knocking?
Thank you for showing that I am perennially right about you bigots: you
never hate just one innocent group; you show now what a sexist pig you are.
Susan
.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
13 Mar 2005 01:06:28 AM |
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On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ok little Susie =). Do I hear Dr. Monthly knocking?
Why, is this a fetish of yours?
But please
dont claim that I'm a bigot or hateful based on something as tame as
what my post was up there. I didn't even mention perversion in what you
quoted. I was asking a simple question. So what have you learned?
Either read what your argueing against, or don't post =D.
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine, that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into it and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong, even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily apply
to all.
But even if we provisionally agree that these are all illnesses, it
does not follow that they need treatment, that effective treatments
exist or that such treatments would not be more harmful than helpful.
Finally, if you really believe that these are diseases, it would be
more appropriate for you to be sympathetic rather than confrontational
and abrasive.
How can people be born with one and cannot change, where as being born
with the other is simply a disease, that CAN be treated. I'm not saying
which side is wrong, but certainly one or both must be.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
13 Mar 2005 03:37:33 AM |
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"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ok little Susie =). Do I hear Dr. Monthly knocking?
Why, is this a fetish of yours?
It's his sexism.
Brilliant rest of post, too, "satyr"!
Susan
But please
dont claim that I'm a bigot or hateful based on something as tame as
what my post was up there. I didn't even mention perversion in what you
quoted. I was asking a simple question. So what have you learned?
Either read what your argueing against, or don't post =D.
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine, that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into it and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong, even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily apply
to all.
But even if we provisionally agree that these are all illnesses, it
does not follow that they need treatment, that effective treatments
exist or that such treatments would not be more harmful than helpful.
Finally, if you really believe that these are diseases, it would be
more appropriate for you to be sympathetic rather than confrontational
and abrasive.
How can people be born with one and cannot change, where as being born
with the other is simply a disease, that CAN be treated. I'm not saying
which side is wrong, but certainly one or both must be.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "Saban" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
17 Mar 2005 07:29:20 PM |
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Susan Cohen wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
It's ok little Susie =). Do I hear Dr. Monthly knocking?
Why, is this a fetish of yours?
It's his sexism.
Brilliant rest of post, too, "satyr"!
Is it sexism to assume PMS when someone makes such an outburst of
terrible insults when there was no need for them? When a logical
argument can not be formed by a woman and therefor they turn to petty
mudslinging as the result? Maybe a bit... but hey, it's either that, or
your just a horrible person, you should be agreeing with the PMS story.
Susan
But please
dont claim that I'm a bigot or hateful based on something as tame
as
what my post was up there. I didn't even mention perversion in what
you
quoted. I was asking a simple question. So what have you learned?
Either read what your argueing against, or don't post =D.
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine,
that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into it
and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong,
even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone
unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily
apply
to all.
They do apply to all in the context that I am using them in.
But even if we provisionally agree that these are all illnesses, it
does not follow that they need treatment, that effective treatments
exist or that such treatments would not be more harmful than
helpful.
Need treatment? Some certanly would, pedophiles for example.
Homosexuals? Should have the opportunity at least.
Arew there effective treatments available? There certainly are some
treatments for pedophiles, otherwise they wouldn't be back on the
streets after their "rehabiliation". Or we would hope so.
Finally, if you really believe that these are diseases, it would be
more appropriate for you to be sympathetic rather than
confrontational
and abrasive.
I don't necessarily think they are diseases. It is most likely a
spiritual thing. And I try to be somewhat sympathetic, but when someone
makes personal attacks on you to the extent that Susan does when there
was no need for it, wouldn't one expect a confrontation? When people
are attacked, a defence is a certainty.
How can people be born with one and cannot change, where as being
born
with the other is simply a disease, that CAN be treated. I'm not
saying
which side is wrong, but certainly one or both must be.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
17 Mar 2005 11:49:33 PM |
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On 17 Mar 2005 17:29:20 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine,
that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into it
and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong,
even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone
unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily
apply
to all.
They do apply to all in the context that I am using them in.
They were an obvious attempt to associate homosexuality with things
like pedophilia. There are no grounds for such an association beyond
bigotry.
snip
Thomas P.
"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we do not like."
Oscar Wilde
.
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| User: "Saban" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
22 Mar 2005 04:33:43 PM |
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thomas p wrote:
On 17 Mar 2005 17:29:20 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine,
that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into
it
and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong,
even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone
unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily
apply
to all.
They do apply to all in the context that I am using them in.
They were an obvious attempt to associate homosexuality with things
like pedophilia. There are no grounds for such an association beyond
bigotry.
homosexuality, heterosexuality, peadophilia, incest, beastiality,
fetishes, "turn-ons", "turn-offs"... they all relate to ones personal
sexual desires and what makes one tick.
If one cannot control whether they end up becoming gay, or whether they
like high heels, skirts, girls that smoke, domination etc., doesn't it
make sense to say that people that become peadopiles, involved in
incest or beastiality could not control themselves from that occuring?
I doubt anyone chooses to be attracted by children or animals...
Ok, lets say they are all related, most people are naturally
heterosexual, with a few fetishes and tweeks to their preferences. The
ones that end up different, can they change? Should they be made to
change? The argument is that homosexuals cannot, and should not have to
change. No, they don't have to, they arent harming anyone, but can they
change?
If homosexuals can't change, can the rest. Can a heterosexual learn to
get turned on by shoes? Turned on by men? By animals? Children? Can any
one the ones that are learn to change, and not be attracted to such
things?
.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
25 Mar 2005 07:30:31 PM |
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On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On 17 Mar 2005 17:29:20 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are fine,
that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced into
it
and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is wrong,
even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone
unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not necessarily
apply
to all.
They do apply to all in the context that I am using them in.
They were an obvious attempt to associate homosexuality with things
like pedophilia. There are no grounds for such an association beyond
bigotry.
homosexuality, heterosexuality, peadophilia, incest, beastiality,
fetishes, "turn-ons", "turn-offs"... they all relate to ones personal
sexual desires and what makes one tick.
If one cannot control whether they end up becoming gay, or whether they
like high heels, skirts, girls that smoke, domination etc., doesn't it
make sense to say that people that become peadopiles, involved in
incest or beastiality could not control themselves from that occuring?
I doubt anyone chooses to be attracted by children or animals...
Ok, lets say they are all related, most people are naturally
heterosexual, with a few fetishes and tweeks to their preferences. The
ones that end up different, can they change? Should they be made to
change? The argument is that homosexuals cannot, and should not have to
change. No, they don't have to, they arent harming anyone, but can they
change?
If homosexuals can't change, can the rest. Can a heterosexual learn to
get turned on by shoes? Turned on by men? By animals? Children? Can any
one the ones that are learn to change, and not be attracted to such
things?
Last sentence is pretty garbled but I would say that change in sexual
preference is pretty near impossible. It might be possible to bring
out an attraction which has been suppressed but I don't think you can
unlearn sexual attraction or create one where none exists. When I
imagine attempts to do so, I can only think of Clockwork Orange.
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
25 Mar 2005 07:34:55 PM |
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satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On 17 Mar 2005 17:29:20 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Susan Cohen wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:v1p7315lp89m5vu9m3pj5fjmrb0o5e9mbr@4ax.com...
On 10 Mar 2005 23:19:47 -0800, "Saban"
<andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
snip
My argument was that to say homosexuality and fetishes are
fine,
that
they can't change, that your born with it or are influenced
into
it
and
then claiming that pedophiles, incest and beastiality is
wrong,
even
illnesses that require treatment, is illogical.
First off, the logical sleight of hand used in lumping all
these
disparate activities and proclivities together has not gone
unnoticed.
Statements which may pertain to one or more do not
necessarily
apply
to all.
They do apply to all in the context that I am using them in.
They were an obvious attempt to associate homosexuality with
things
like pedophilia. There are no grounds for such an association
beyond
bigotry.
homosexuality, heterosexuality, peadophilia, incest, beastiality,
fetishes, "turn-ons", "turn-offs"... they all relate to ones
personal
sexual desires and what makes one tick.
If one cannot control whether they end up becoming gay, or whether
they
like high heels, skirts, girls that smoke, domination etc., doesn't
it
make sense to say that people that become peadopiles, involved in
incest or beastiality could not control themselves from that
occuring?
I doubt anyone chooses to be attracted by children or animals...
Ok, lets say they are all related, most people are naturally
heterosexual, with a few fetishes and tweeks to their preferences.
The
ones that end up different, can they change? Should they be made to
change? The argument is that homosexuals cannot, and should not have
to
change. No, they don't have to, they arent harming anyone, but can
they
change?
If homosexuals can't change, can the rest. Can a heterosexual learn
to
get turned on by shoes? Turned on by men? By animals? Children? Can
any
one the ones that are learn to change, and not be attracted to such
things?
Last sentence is pretty garbled but I would say that change in sexual
preference is pretty near impossible. It might be possible to bring
out an attraction which has been suppressed but I don't think you can
unlearn sexual attraction or create one where none exists. When I
imagine attempts to do so, I can only think of Clockwork Orange.
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
25 Mar 2005 11:51:06 PM |
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On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
26 Mar 2005 09:54:20 PM |
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"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It woud behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
Susan
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
27 Mar 2005 12:49:11 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It woud behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
28 Mar 2005 01:31:27 PM |
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"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
Susan
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
29 Mar 2005 11:37:41 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
I am just trying to toe the line.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
29 Mar 2005 01:22:49 PM |
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thomas p wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into
feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
I am just trying to toe the line.
Come on now, let's lace this up and give it the boot. We've given
it plenty of tongue-lashing; it's more than any sole individual can
take. It's a good thing this isn't a sin, because I wouldn't want to
mock a sin, don't you know. I think, by now, we should be over shoes!!
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
30 Mar 2005 12:35:47 AM |
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On 29 Mar 2005 11:22:49 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into
feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
I am just trying to toe the line.
Come on now, let's lace this up and give it the boot. We've given
it plenty of tongue-lashing; it's more than any sole individual can
take. It's a good thing this isn't a sin, because I wouldn't want to
mock a sin, don't you know. I think, by now, we should be over shoes!!
Uh uh, this punfest was meant to last.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
30 Mar 2005 12:43:31 AM |
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"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:m9gk41hvio5pclmrt9alnm5m4j9mc55i9u@4ax.com...
On 29 Mar 2005 11:22:49 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into
feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
I am just trying to toe the line.
Come on now, let's lace this up and give it the boot. We've given
it plenty of tongue-lashing; it's more than any sole individual can
take. It's a good thing this isn't a sin, because I wouldn't want to
mock a sin, don't you know. I think, by now, we should be over shoes!!
Uh uh, this punfest was meant to last.
No matter how lame the puns we cobble up are.
Susan
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
30 Mar 2005 02:09:32 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 06:35:47 GMT, satyr <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org>
wrote:
On 29 Mar 2005 11:22:49 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:31:27 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"thomas p" <tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:lnkc41tcjoo9fbk645lk23io4065orfhku@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:54:20 GMT, "Susan Cohen"
<flavia13@verizon.net>
wrote:
"satyr" <RsEaMtOyVrE@infidels.org> wrote in message
news:s0u941tc9op8pmqg8snl69iv09ejskmjtb@4ax.com...
On 25 Mar 2005 17:34:55 -0800, "PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com"
<PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com> wrote:
satyr wrote:
On 22 Mar 2005 14:33:43 -0800, "Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tell me how I would go about acquiring a shoe fetish?
Are you sure that it's something that you want to jump into
feet
first?
I just want to dip my toe in the water.
It would behoove you guys to hotfoot it to a different topic :-)
You sure polished them off.
Don't be a heel!
I am just trying to toe the line.
Come on now, let's lace this up and give it the boot. We've given
it plenty of tongue-lashing; it's more than any sole individual can
take. It's a good thing this isn't a sin, because I wouldn't want to
mock a sin, don't you know. I think, by now, we should be over shoes!!
Uh uh, this punfest was meant to last.
I believe that we have it laced up now.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 01:04:47 PM |
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In article <1110477035.559101.309670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote:
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses and
which are not.
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
Then why are there creatures other than humans who indulge in those
other orientations? Did God slip up somewhere?
.
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| User: "R?ain - ריעין" |
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| Title: Re: Can Heterosexuals Change? |
10 Mar 2005 04:10:24 PM |
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You are too stupid to be able to separate things that are not the same
thing at all!!!!!!!!!
SEXUAL ORIENTATION is one thing
SEXUAL DEVIANCE is another thing -- Paedophilia falls here!
SEXUAL FETISHES are something else!
THREE DIFFERENT THINGS WHICH MEAN THREE DIFFERENT THINGS!!!!
sexual orientation
n. The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same,
opposite, or both sexes
deviance
noun The condition of being abnormal: aberrance, aberrancy, aberration,
abnormality, anomaly, deviancy, deviation, irregularity,
preternaturalness, unnaturalness.
fet·ish also fet·ich
n.
1.. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers,
especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic
religious practices.
2.. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a
fetish of punctuality.
3.. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the
body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual
gratification.
4.. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110477035.559101.309670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
R?ain - ריעין wrote:
"Saban" <andrewh36@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110411230.169881.172250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Can homoexuals change?
Can heterosexuals change?
Can pedophiles change?
Can people practicing incest change?
Can people practicing beastiality change?
What about fetishes? Feet, shoes, breasts, buts, bondage, hats,
smoking etc.
To claim that people are born with their sexual preference and
cannot
change, would one also be suggesting that pedophiles are born with
a
desire for children, and therefore the rehabilitation system is a
farce?
Yes no maybe so? Put the pedophiles in jail, let the homosexuals
run
rampant?
As long as they're 18 or older anything goes...
Why can't brothers and sisters marry? They love each other!
Should people be allowed to marry their pets? At least have sex
with
them? What if there's a true conenction there! Can they change
their
preference?
Let's hear a hoorah for our society of democracy and equal rights!
It was good while it lasted...
You are a blathering idiot!
Sexual Orientation in not an illness, why paedophilia is a mental
illness.
Fetishes are perfectly normal and healthy as long as they aren't not
harming anyone and if it involved other people they are adults and
able
to give consent.
Are you saying that pedophiles, incest and beastiality are not
illnesses, but are all perfectly normal? That it is society's fault for
not accepting them as they are?
Or just homosexuality and some fetishes are allright... as long as both
sides consent.
How can one pick and choose what sexual orientations are illnesses and
which are not.
Anything other than heterosexual is wrong.
.
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