| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david ford" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2006 05:56:54 PM |
| Object: |
Re: CFV: Origin of Life FAQ submission for TOA |
John Wilkins wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry <welsberr@inia.cls.org> wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:
Al Moritz has submitted a revised version of his Origin of Life FAQ
for inclusion in the TalkOrigins Archive.
The candidate FAQ is hosted at
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/originoflife.htm
Previous discussion of the proposed FAQ is at
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/12c123277e1
07d37/c37b374db7fe417a?lnk=st&q=moritz+group%3Atalk.origins&rnum=2#c37b37
4db7fe417a
The title of that thread was, "Article: The Origin of Life", posted on
August 19th, 2006.
This thread is for yay and nay feedback on whether to include the FAQ
as it stands in the TOA.
I meant to mention that I'll consider this a one-week period for people
to get in their yay or nay votes on this.
I vote nay.
So last call to say something
about it is October 5th, 2006.
As the aphorism goes, silence gives consent.
I think two weeks would be better.
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/originoflife.htm
Outlook
Even though recent, exciting research has provided
plausible scenarios for the origin of life and has
answered many questions, it is clear that a lot of
research remains to be done, since much of the
origin-of-life scenarios is still hypothesis.
Experimental models are needed that are both
realistic and of some appreciable complexity. Were
it possible, for example, to show that a primitive
RNA organism could be built in the laboratory, as
the Szostak lab plans to do, it would be a significant
step forward. For this, see Carl Zimmer's article;
there also the hope is expressed that evolution of
such an organism might be observable on the lab
bench. I would agree that ethical issues are
practically non-existent since the organism would
not be able to live in the present-day outside world.
"the hope is expressed that evolution of such an organism might be
observable on the lab"
Meaning of "evolution"?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-386md9F5lsv5cU1%40individual.net
"recent, exciting research... has answered many questions"
How does the author of the proposed FAQ paper account for the origin of
the recorded-in-DNA/ genetic information within:
a human?
a bacterium?
the first biological lifeform?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1985 A.G. Cairns-Smith; How did recorded-in-DNA/ genetic information
originate?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-32gv43F3jsrelU1%40individual.net
How does a seeingwatchmakingist account for the origin of
the recorded-in-DNA/ genetic information within:
a human? a bacterium? the first biological lifeform?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-348nj6F47evohU1%40individual.net
On the Origin of Life
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-39oh33F63riraU1%40individual.net
Reality vs. worldview philosophy of materialism/ atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3813ksF5ggkc3U1%40individual.net
.
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: CFV: Origin of Life FAQ submission for TOA |
03 Oct 2006 09:11:01 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:56:54 -0700, david ford wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry <welsberr@inia.cls.org> wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:
Al Moritz has submitted a revised version of his Origin of Life FAQ
for inclusion in the TalkOrigins Archive.
The candidate FAQ is hosted at
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/originoflife.htm
Previous discussion of the proposed FAQ is at
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/12c123277e1
07d37/c37b374db7fe417a?lnk=st&q=moritz+group%3Atalk.origins&rnum=2#c37b37
4db7fe417a
The title of that thread was, "Article: The Origin of Life", posted on
August 19th, 2006.
This thread is for yay and nay feedback on whether to include the FAQ
as it stands in the TOA.
I meant to mention that I'll consider this a one-week period for people
to get in their yay or nay votes on this.
I vote nay.
Meaning of nay? Meaning of vote? Meaning of I?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "david ford" |
|
| Title: Re: CFV: Origin of Life FAQ submission for TOA |
04 Oct 2006 07:31:14 AM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:56:54 -0700, david ford wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry <welsberr@inia.cls.org> wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:
Al Moritz has submitted a revised version of his Origin of Life FAQ
for inclusion in the TalkOrigins Archive.
The candidate FAQ is hosted at
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/originoflife.htm
Previous discussion of the proposed FAQ is at
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/12c123277e1
07d37/c37b374db7fe417a?lnk=st&q=moritz+group%3Atalk.origins&rnum=2#c37b37
4db7fe417a
The title of that thread was, "Article: The Origin of Life", posted on
August 19th, 2006.
This thread is for yay and nay feedback on whether to include the FAQ
as it stands in the TOA.
I meant to mention that I'll consider this a one-week period for people
to get in their yay or nay votes on this.
I vote nay.
Meaning of nay? Meaning of vote? Meaning of I?
I quoted you in
a claim: Hitler was a Christian
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1131389424.486586.51840%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: CFV: Origin of Life FAQ submission for TOA |
04 Oct 2006 09:45:40 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:31:14 -0700, david ford wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:56:54 -0700, david ford wrote:
John Wilkins wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry <welsberr@inia.cls.org> wrote:
Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:
Al Moritz has submitted a revised version of his Origin of Life FAQ
for inclusion in the TalkOrigins Archive.
The candidate FAQ is hosted at
http://home.earthlink.net/~almoritz/originoflife.htm
Previous discussion of the proposed FAQ is at
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/12c123277e1
07d37/c37b374db7fe417a?lnk=st&q=moritz+group%3Atalk.origins&rnum=2#c37b37
4db7fe417a
The title of that thread was, "Article: The Origin of Life", posted on
August 19th, 2006.
This thread is for yay and nay feedback on whether to include the FAQ
as it stands in the TOA.
I meant to mention that I'll consider this a one-week period for people
to get in their yay or nay votes on this.
I vote nay.
Meaning of nay? Meaning of vote? Meaning of I?
I quoted you in
a claim: Hitler was a Christian
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1131389424.486586.51840%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Meaning of I? Meaning of quoted? Meaning of you? Meaning of in? Meaning of
a? Meaning of claim?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "david ford" |
|
| Title: Re: CFV: Origin of Life FAQ submission for TOA |
04 Oct 2006 07:59:45 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:31:14 -0700, david ford wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:56:54 -0700, david ford wrote:
I vote nay.
Meaning of nay? Meaning of vote? Meaning of I?
I quoted you in
a claim: Hitler was a Christian
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=1131389424.486586.51840%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Meaning of I? Meaning of quoted? Meaning of you? Meaning of in? Meaning of
a? Meaning of claim?
It will be interesting to see if you attempt to rebut anything
appearing below.
From:
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Speaking for yourself vs. speaking for Friends
Date: 7 Nov 2005 10:50:24 -0800
Lines: 189
Message-ID: <1131389424.486586.51840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Engineer wrote:
William Ehrich wrote:
Engineer quoted Adolph Hitler:
"My feelings as a Christian ... "
and wrote:
When I say that Naziism was a Christian movement, I refer to what
most Nazis believed and still believe - and those beliefs are very
much Christian.
Hitler was not always truthful, even when he repeated something many
times in the hope that people would believe what he said and ignore
what he did. Contemporary people who think it cool to play at being
Nazis emulate this.
Agreed. When I say that Naziism was a Christian movement, I am not
in any way, shape, or form, referring to the *actual* beliefs of
Hitler and crew, but rather to the *stated* beliefs of Hitler and
crew. The followers of the movement heard the words that Hitler
spoke and believed the words that Hitler spoke, whether or not they
were true and whether or Not Hilter himself believed them. I share
your doubts as to whether Hitler was a Christian, but I have no
doubt that Naziism was a Christian movement. Communism claims to
be based on reason and logic, but Naziism claims to be based on
the workings of the Spirit.
Someone: Hitler once claimed that his Final Solution was merely a
continuation of what the Church had done for centuries.
Me: Hitler also "once claimed that" he was a great friend of Stalin.
(This was before Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of
Stalin's USSR.)
Mark Bilbo:
You might like some of these
pictures by the way:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
I especially liked the pics captioned "Hitler leaving Church"
and "Hitler praying." It's amazing how gullible some people can be.
Especially when those gullible people _know_ they're dealing with a
politician!
A claim: Hitler was a Christian
When Hitler speaks of [Hitler]"God" or [Hitler]"Providence," he's
speaking of:
1) himself, or
2) the German volk/ folk/ people, or
3) the State/ government, or
4) [Hitler]"Nature"/ the world of "Nature"/ the 'natural' world/ the
universe, often referred to as a 'she,' or
5) the Judeo-Christian God, which is phony talk, because Hitler
rejects the existence of the Judeo-Christian God and rejects all He
stands for.
Hitler was an adherent of atheism.
I base this conclusion upon my reading of:
a good bit of the 1941-4 "Table Talk" book (which Speer had no problem
with the substance of),
much of the Rauschning book that dealt with 1932-4, and
lengthy portions of _Mein Kampf_.
I saw confirmation of my conclusion that Hitler was an adherent of
atheism with:
Goebbel's diaries,
obliquely in terms of the Nazi persecution of Protestant and Catholic
churches as described in Shirer and in an article about the July 1945
OSS document "The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian
Churches," and
a different 1938/9 Rauschning book.
Hitler was making National Socialism into a secular religion, a secular
religion to substitute for Catholic and Protestant Christianity. Ref:
Hitler's secular religion
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120837574.592972.268980%40g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
I'm also familiar with atheist/ materialist thinking from reading much
atheist thought.
Do you grant that Goebbels and Hitler made these remarks?:
12 May 1943 Goebbels
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1120260213.363834.164990%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
The Fuehrer spoke very derogatorily about the arrogance
of the higher and lower clergy. The insanity of the
Christian doctrine of redemption really doesn't fit at all
into our time. Nevertheless there are learned, educated
men, occupying high positions in public life, who cling to it
with the faith of a child. It is simply incomprehensible
how anybody can consider the Christian doctrine of
redemption as a guide for the difficult life of today. The
Fuehrer cited a number of exceptionally drastic and in
part even grotesque examples. The opinionated "sky pilots"
[clergy members -df] of course know exactly how the world is
constituted. Whereas the most learned and wisest
scientists struggle for a whole lifetime to study but one of
the mysterious laws of nature, a little country priest from
Bavaria is in a position to decide this matter on the basis
of his religious knowledge. One can regard such a
disgusting performance only with disdain. A church that
does not keep step with modern scientific knowledge is
doomed. It may take quite a while, but it is bound finally
to happen. Anybody who is firmly rooted in daily life, and
who can only faintly imagine the mystic secrets of nature,
will naturally be extremely modest about the universe.
The clerics, however, who have not caught a breath of
such modesty, evidence a sovereign opinionated attitude
toward questions of the universe....
1924 or 1925 Hitler: "today these sky-pilots [i.e. members of
the clergy]... force their drivel on the world."
Hitler, Adolf. _Mein Kampf_ at
http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch11.html
Only after the enslavement of subjected races did the
same fate strike beasts, and not the other way around, as
some people would like to think. For first the conquered
warrior drew the plow-and only after him the horse. Only
pacifistic fools can regard this as a sign of human
depravity, failing to realize that this development had to
take place in order to reach the point where today these
sky-pilots [i.e. members of the clergy, judging by the
Goebbels diaries' use of the phrase] could force their
drivel on the world.
The progress of humanity is like climbing an endless
ladder....
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Re: atheist thought:
Timeline of Materialism, Spontaneous Generation, and Blindwatchmaking
Views
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-348jecF47mfcjU1%40individual.net
Reality vs. worldview philosophy of materialism/ atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-3813ksF5ggkc3U1%40individual.net
Collection of URLs:
2001 Abraham Foxman: Hitler was a big liar
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1128010617.235272.105530%40g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Hitler encounters the T0E as a child: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118403178.860854.170600%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Stalin encounters the T0E in seminary: A Victory for Atheism
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118511187.489582.241590%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
1941 Hitler & 2003 Dawkins observation re: conflicting religions
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118932846.333778.56450%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Hitler opposed Christianity
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1117657689.616680.167840%40g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Churches resisted Hitler
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1128561942.412167.145530%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
theological disputes among German Protestants; Nazi concentration camps
for Catholics and Protestants
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-1129228612.176548.107730%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
the atheism-adherent Hitler's actions are quite understandable
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1127506418.014874.230840%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
Besides being an adherent of atheism, Hitler engaged in homosexual
activity:
Haeckel and Buchner and a Darwinian a-moral climate; Hitler was a
homosexual
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118315214.069039.280490%40z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
the atheism-adherent Hitler's actions are quite understandable
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1127506418.014874.230840%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
1939 Martha Dodd: Ernst Rohm rumored to be Hitler's better half
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1127447560.529159.263760%40g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
1978 Graber: "homosexuality appears to have been widespread in several
volunteer [Freikorps] units"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1126151010.843839.115080%40f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
1934 Ebermayer: "Hess... was for many years the Fuhrer's partner"
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1121399969.441145.63680%40g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
a spiritual void among especially-influential Germans
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1118976003.052269.211420%40g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
2002 Allen Barra review of Machtan's _The Hidden Hitler_
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/01/14/machtan/
Hitler's human breeding plan using selection + mutations
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124684179.251743.95950%40o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1124731489.829229.220700%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
Is infanticide or breeding humans "evil"?
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dford3-1131383831.179267.205750%40g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
