Religions > Atheism > Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
" \- Prof. Jonez©" |
| Date: |
03 Mar 2005 08:10:34 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of the United
States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
JOHN ADAMS: "This would be the best of all possible worlds,
if there were no religions in it."
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have been
blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have made them
the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled with the sordid
and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?"
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal inventions,
through all the ages has made of Christendom a slaughterhouse,
and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one another."
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep
forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil
of Europe with blood for centuries."
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
03 Mar 2005 11:08:57 PM |
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"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of the United
States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual
that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly
devout man."
JOHN ADAMS: "This would be the best of all possible worlds,
if there were no religions in it."
John Adams, our second president, said, "Our Constitution was made only
for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the
government or any other."
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have been
blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have made them
the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled with the sordid
and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?"
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is
because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
-President Thomas Jefferson
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal inventions,
through all the ages has made of Christendom a slaughterhouse,
and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one another."
"Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my
observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, To William Canby, 1813
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep
forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil
of Europe with blood for centuries."
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the
capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-President James Madison
.
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 12:38:02 PM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:J3SVd.192011$Zm5.24740@news.easynews.com...
"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of the United
States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual
that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly
devout man."
President Washington NEVER publicly said he was a Christian. There is not
ONE quotation EVER RECORDED where Washington talks about being
Christian...he only wrote one prayer in his personal diary. Jefferson even
lauded him for this.
"Feb. 1. Dr. Rush tells me that he had it from Asa Green that when the
clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the Government, it
was observed in their consultation that he had never on any occasion said a
word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion and they
thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to
declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so. However, he
observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article in
their address particularly except that, which he passed over without
notice.. "I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his secrets
and believed himself to be so, has often told me that General Washington
believed no more in the system (Christianity) than he did."
- (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 1, p. 284.)
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have been
blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have made them
the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled with the sordid
and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?"
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is
because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
-President Thomas Jefferson
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme
being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable
of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson
(letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal inventions,
through all the ages has made of Christendom a slaughterhouse,
and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one another."
"Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my
observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, To William Canby, 1813
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of
England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law
regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used
today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read
Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep
forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil
of Europe with blood for centuries."
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the
capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-President James Madison
This quotation is false. Madison never said it. It was never recorded
anywhere in any document ever penned by Madison. It's a myth...a
Revolutionary Urban Legend.
.
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| User: "Fenris" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 09:41:19 PM |
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|
"UffDa!" <euv_uffda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0a9ua$v25$1@news01.intel.com...
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:J3SVd.192011$Zm5.24740@news.easynews.com...
"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of the United
States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual
that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly
devout man."
President Washington NEVER publicly said he was a Christian. There is not
ONE quotation EVER RECORDED where Washington talks about being
Christian...he only wrote one prayer in his personal diary. Jefferson
even
lauded him for this.
"Feb. 1. Dr. Rush tells me that he had it from Asa Green that when the
clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the Government,
it
was observed in their consultation that he had never on any occasion said
a
word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion and
they
thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to
declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so. However,
he
observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article
in
their address particularly except that, which he passed over without
notice.. "I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his
secrets
and believed himself to be so, has often told me that General Washington
believed no more in the system (Christianity) than he did."
- (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 1, p. 284.)
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have been
blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have made them
the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled with the sordid
and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?"
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is
because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
-President Thomas Jefferson
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme
being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the
fable
of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson
(letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal inventions,
through all the ages has made of Christendom a slaughterhouse,
and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one another."
"Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my
observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, To William Canby, 1813
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of
England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law
regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used
today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read
Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to
keep
forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil
of Europe with blood for centuries."
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the
capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-President James Madison
This quotation is false. Madison never said it. It was never recorded
anywhere in any document ever penned by Madison. It's a myth...a
Revolutionary Urban Legend.
Actually, its not even that. It's just an invention of Sam Bam (Uncle
Spammy). For someone who professes to believe in Christian principles,
Spammy has no morals or ethics. He will say any lie to try and prove his
point. I guess he doesn't realize how easy it is see through his pathetic
*****.
.
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
|
| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 10:14:59 PM |
|
|
Fenris wrote:
"UffDa!" <euv_uffda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0a9ua$v25$1@news01.intel.com...
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:J3SVd.192011$Zm5.24740@news.easynews.com...
"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of
the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
Christian religion.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in
many of his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to
government its surest support," Washington said. "It is
impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the
Bible." His personal prayer book, written in his own handwriting,
declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful
loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the week
and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is
factual that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the
Bible for one hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the
Supreme Court described Washington: "Without making ostentatious
professions of religion, he was a sincere believer in the
Christian faith, and a truly devout man."
President Washington NEVER publicly said he was a Christian. There
is not ONE quotation EVER RECORDED where Washington talks about
being Christian...he only wrote one prayer in his personal diary. Jefferson
even
lauded him for this.
"Feb. 1. Dr. Rush tells me that he had it from Asa Green that when
the clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the
Government, it
was observed in their consultation that he had never on any
occasion said a
word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion
and they
thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length
to declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so.
However, he
observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every
article in
their address particularly except that, which he passed over without
notice.. "I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his
secrets
and believed himself to be so, has often told me that General
Washington believed no more in the system (Christianity) than he
did." - (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 1, p. 284.)
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have
been blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and
have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed?
Filled with the sordid and detestable purposes of superstition
and fraud?" THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly
of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women
and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the
effect of this coercion? To make one-half the world fools and
the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all
over the earth."
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is
because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
-President Thomas Jefferson
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be
classed with the fable
of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas
Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal
inventions, through all the ages has made of Christendom a
slaughterhouse, and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for
one
another."
"Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come
under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, To William Canby, 1813
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law
of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the
Common Law regarding matters that it does not address. This
argument is still used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who
do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of
this matter.
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state
is to keep
forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked
the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon
the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of
each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to
sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-President James Madison
This quotation is false. Madison never said it. It was never
recorded anywhere in any document ever penned by Madison. It's a
myth...a Revolutionary Urban Legend.
Actually, its not even that. It's just an invention of Sam Bam (Uncle
Spammy). For someone who professes to believe in Christian
principles, Spammy has no morals or ethics.
Necessary qualities for fundy xtians.
He will say any lie to try and prove his point. I guess he doesn't realize how
easy it is
see through his pathetic *****.
Whores like Sam Bam have no shame.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
05 Mar 2005 11:58:54 AM |
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Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible opened to
Deuteronomy 6. In his first inaugural address, President Washington
acknowledged God for the reason for America’s birth: "It would be
improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplication to
that Almighty Being. . . . No people can be bound to acknowledge and
adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than
people of the United States. . . . We ought to be no less persuaded that
the propitious smiles of Heaven cannot be expected on a nation that
disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has
ordained." President Washington’s inaugural address concluded with a
church service at Saint Paul’s Chapel, led by the chaplains of Congress.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual
that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly
devout man."
John Adams, our second president, said, "Our Constitution was made only
for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the
government or any other."
Even Thomas Jefferson, third president, and one who certainly did not
hold to all the traditional doctrines of Christianity, placed the Bible
and Isaac Watt’s Book of Psalms and Hymns in the District of Columbia’s
public schools. Jefferson declared religion: "Deemed in other countries
incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be
its best support."
James Madison, fourth president of the United States and referred to as
the "Father of the Constitution," stated, "The belief in a God All
Powerful, wise and good, is essential to the moral order of the world
and to the happiness of man."
John Quincy Adams, sixth President of the United States and "Chief
Architect" of the Constitution said, "The highest glory of the American
Revolution was it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of
civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Andrew Jackson, our seventh president claimed (referring to the Bible)
"That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic stands."
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 12:05:46 PM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
<multitude of fake quotations snipped>
Sam,
Despite the ongoing flaming amongst the others and yourself, I would like to
say that I do appreciate the fact that you have a deep respect for the
Founding Fathers and their intentions. I would recommend that you read some
of their works...they are not only enlightening but revealing and just
generally interesting.
Some great books:
Founding Brothers - Joseph Ellis
Inventing America: Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence - Gary
Wills
How the Scots Invented the Modern World - Arthur Herman
The Adams-Jefferson: The Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson
and Abigail and John Adams - Lester Cappon
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 02:14:41 PM |
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
<multitude of fake quotations snipped>
You dishonest piece of ***** - relevant and accurate quotations RESTORED!
http://first-hand.org/heritage.htm
"... Make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and
your own, and to serve and fear God...."
-Inscription on the base of a monument in Jamestown which was erected by
the Jamestown Landing Party.
“All persons living in this province, who confess and acknowledge the
One Almighty and Eternal God to be the Creator, Upholder, and Ruler of
the world, and that hold themselves obliged in conscience to live
peaceably and justly in civil society, shall in no wise be molested or
prejudiced for their religious persuasion or practice, in matters of
faith and worship; nor shall they be compelled at any time to frequent
or maintain any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever."
-William Penn
"Everyone appointed to public office must say, "I do profess faith in
God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the
Holy Ghost. In God who is blessed forevermore I do acknowledge the Holy
Scriptures and the Old and New Testaments which are given by divine
inspiration."
-Delaware Constitution of 1776
O! thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd home, and the war's desolation,
blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land,
Praise the Power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - "In God is our Trust;"
And the star-spangled Banner in triumph shall wave,
O'er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.
-Last verse of the original Star Spangled Banner
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on
religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone.
God presides over the destinies of nations. The battle is not to the
strong alone. Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at
the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, ALMIGHTY GOD! Give me
liberty or give me death!"
-Patrick Henry of the Constitutional Convention
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible
-George Washington, September 17th, 1796
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity,
religion and morality are indispensable supports . . . And let us
indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained
without religion . . . Reason and experience both forbid us to expect
that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle."
-George Washington
"Without a humble imitation of the characteristics of the Divine Author
of our blessed religion, we can never hope to be a happy nation."
-George Washington
I never witnessed his private devotions. In never inquired about them. I
should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in
Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He
was not one of those who act or pray, 'that they may be seen of men.' He
communed with his God in secret.
-Eleanor Park Custis Lewis (George Washinton’s adopted daughter) when
asked about her father’s religious beliefs.
"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more
convincing proofs I see of this truth -- God Governs in the Affairs of
Men, And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, Is
it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"
-Benjamin Franklin
"Except the Lord build the house, They labor in vain who build it… I
firmly believe this."
-Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 03:19:57 PM |
|
|
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:RC2Xd.583974$Zm5.84236@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
<multitude of fake quotations snipped>
You dishonest piece of ***** - relevant and accurate quotations RESTORED!
http://first-hand.org/heritage.htm
I am hardly dishonest, I am merely pointing out that on the sites you quote
a number of the quotations are fabricated or taken out of context. Many are
not, but some are. So it's always best to check the source. I posted
another message to you with these resources...
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 05:42:40 PM |
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:RC2Xd.583974$Zm5.84236@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
<multitude of fake quotations snipped>
You dishonest piece of ***** - relevant and accurate quotations RESTORED!
http://first-hand.org/heritage.htm
I am hardly dishonest, I am merely pointing out that on the sites you quote
a number of the quotations are fabricated or taken out of context.
No, there is a claim of fabrication regarding Madison I believe, and
that has been open to much argument, with no clear proof as yet for
either side.
Many are
not, but some are. So it's always best to check the source. I posted
another message to you with these resources...
The point is: Judeo-Christian ideals, laws, and beliefs underlay the
laws and foundation of this nation.
Beyond that I am disinterested as to which semantics are in question.
The point is larger than mere punctuational parsing.
.
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 06:23:16 PM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:QF5Xd.4406510$f47.789761@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Many are
not, but some are. So it's always best to check the source. I posted
another message to you with these resources...
The point is: Judeo-Christian ideals, laws, and beliefs underlay the
laws and foundation of this nation.
Beyond that I am disinterested as to which semantics are in question.
Actually, its not semantics...its the Greeks and Romans... They were not
Christians (at least not in the time period we are talking about). Nor were
they Jews... They were Polytheists who gave more to our system of laws than
any group of people ever.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 07:11:12 PM |
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:QF5Xd.4406510$f47.789761@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Many are
not, but some are. So it's always best to check the source. I posted
another message to you with these resources...
The point is: Judeo-Christian ideals, laws, and beliefs underlay the
laws and foundation of this nation.
Beyond that I am disinterested as to which semantics are in question.
Actually, its not semantics...its the Greeks and Romans...
Non sequitur to our framers.
They were not
Christians (at least not in the time period we are talking about). Nor were
they Jews... They were Polytheists who gave more to our system of laws than
any group of people ever.
Yet their contributions were not specifically identified in writing and
speech by the framers.
The linkage to our system of laws then is at best tenuous.
.
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
08 Mar 2005 11:34:54 AM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:QY6Xd.4411271$f47.790333@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
They were not
Christians (at least not in the time period we are talking about). Nor
were
they Jews... They were Polytheists who gave more to our system of laws
than
any group of people ever.
Yet their contributions were not specifically identified in writing and
speech by the framers.
The linkage to our system of laws then is at best tenuous.
You must be joking.
"Senate" from the Roman system.
ON CIVILIZED NATIONS
"[Greece was] the first of civilized nations [which] presented example of
what man should be." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:481
ON MILITIAS
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and
Romans, and must be that of every free state. - Thomas Jefferson
I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of
Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek
and Roman leave to us. - Thomas Jefferson
Here's a great little web-page that concisely talks about how our system of
gov't was developed and conceived:
http://www.grecoreport.com/the_founding_fathers_&_the_classics.htm
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
08 Mar 2005 12:01:06 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:34:54 -0800, "UffDa!" <euv_uffda@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:QY6Xd.4411271$f47.790333@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
They were not
Christians (at least not in the time period we are talking about). Nor
were
they Jews... They were Polytheists who gave more to our system of laws
than
any group of people ever.
Yet their contributions were not specifically identified in writing and
speech by the framers.
The linkage to our system of laws then is at best tenuous.
You must be joking.
"Senate" from the Roman system.
ON CIVILIZED NATIONS
"[Greece was] the first of civilized nations [which] presented example of
what man should be." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:481
ON MILITIAS
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and
Romans, and must be that of every free state. - Thomas Jefferson
I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of
Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek
and Roman leave to us. - Thomas Jefferson
Good stuff, but Jefferson was not involved int he drafting of the
Constitution. You should be looking to Adams and others.
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
08 Mar 2005 03:39:38 PM |
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wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:34:54 -0800, "UffDa!" <euv_uffda@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:QY6Xd.4411271$f47.790333@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
They were not
Christians (at least not in the time period we are talking
about). Nor were they Jews... They were Polytheists who gave
more to our system of laws than any group of people ever.
Yet their contributions were not specifically identified in
writing and speech by the framers.
The linkage to our system of laws then is at best tenuous.
You must be joking.
"Senate" from the Roman system.
ON CIVILIZED NATIONS
"[Greece was] the first of civilized nations [which] presented
example of what man should be." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray,
1823. ME 15:481
ON MILITIAS
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. - Thomas
Jefferson
I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed)
doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral
philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us. - Thomas Jefferson
Good stuff, but Jefferson was not involved int he drafting of the
Constitution.
*****. He *wrote* the Original Draft of the Declaration of Independence, and
the Constitution for Virginia. To say that Jefferson wasn't involved in the US
Constitution and BOR is
fucking disingenuous, he may not have been a scribe on that one, yet his ideas,
institutions, ideals and philosophies are well part of
the foundations of the US Constitution.
You should be looking to Adams and others.
Like Jefferson never consulted with and to Adams and "the others".
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
08 Mar 2005 04:13:46 PM |
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On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:39:38 -0700, " \"- Prof. Jonez©\""
<jonez@norcom.ca> wrote:
Good stuff, but Jefferson was not involved int he drafting of the
Constitution.
*****. He *wrote* the Original Draft of the Declaration of Independence, and
the Constitution for Virginia. To say that Jefferson wasn't involved in the US
Constitution and BOR is
fucking disingenuous, he may not have been a scribe on that one, yet his ideas,
institutions, ideals and philosophies are well part of
the foundations of the US Constitution.
HE was in France during the drafting. His notions of its content
cannot be relied upon to say what the drafters thought. In fact he had
severe issues with it.
But yes, he'd had many conversations letters and interchanges with
Adams, Franklin and others who together form the intellectual basis
behind the document.
all I'm saying is direct cites from the actual authors is more
persuasive.
.
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| User: "Al Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
08 Mar 2005 04:26:55 PM |
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wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:39:38 -0700, " \"- Prof. Jonez=A9\""
<jonez@norcom.ca> wrote:
Good stuff, but Jefferson was not involved int he drafting of the
Constitution.
*****. He *wrote* the Original Draft of the Declaration of
Independence, and
the Constitution for Virginia. To say that Jefferson wasn't involved
in the US
Constitution and BOR is
fucking disingenuous, he may not have been a scribe on that one, yet
his ideas,
institutions, ideals and philosophies are well part of
the foundations of the US Constitution.
HE was in France during the drafting. His notions of its content
cannot be relied upon to say what the drafters thought. In fact he
had
severe issues with it.
But yes, he'd had many conversations letters and interchanges with
Adams, Franklin and others who together form the intellectual basis
behind the document.
all I'm saying is direct cites from the actual authors is more
persuasive.
What do you think of the phrase, "...wall of separation between Church
and State."?
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| User: "Fenris" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
05 Mar 2005 05:35:40 PM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible
bs snipped
Your "quotes" are shown to be made up and your response is to offer more
bogus quotes? You're kind of like the check forger who offers to write a
check to cover his bail.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
05 Mar 2005 11:55:18 PM |
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Fenris wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible
bs snipped
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL _ ***** YOUR LIES!
.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 01:21:47 PM |
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On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 05:55:18 GMT, Sam Bam <sam@bam.slam> wrote:
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL
Another acknowledgement is in order.
_ ***** YOUR LIES!
Less creative, though. How would one do that?
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 02:27:55 PM |
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Don Homuth wrote:
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 05:55:18 GMT, Sam Bam <sam@bam.slam> wrote:
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL
Another acknowledgement is in order.
_ ***** YOUR LIES!
Less creative, though. How would one do that?
Why don't you put your thinking cap on and work it out Homu...
.
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
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| Title: Re: Ted and Sam -- match made in Hell ? -- Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 01:35:57 PM |
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Don Homuth wrote:
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 05:55:18 GMT, Sam Bam <sam@bam.slam> wrote:
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL
Another acknowledgement is in order.
_ ***** YOUR LIES!
Less creative, though. How would one do that?
Sam Bam and Ted Kaldis both have a peculiar propensity to
have intercourse with inanimate objects or concepts.
Ted willingly sodomizes the Dictionary and Sam Bam
runs around like some rabid Bonobo Pygmy Chimpanzee on Viagra
humping anything and everything she encounters.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Ted and Sam -- match made in Hell ? -- Church and State NeedNot be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 02:30:15 PM |
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"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Why don't you go back to posting beheading videos you subhuman scumhole.
.
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 12:42:58 PM |
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Sam Bam wrote:
Fenris wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible
bs snipped
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL _ ***** YOUR LIES!
Godwin's Corollary -- you lose Sam Bam.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
06 Mar 2005 02:27:53 PM |
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"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
Fenris wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:yrmWd.4167675$f47.744066@news.easynews.com...
Fenris wrote:
It's just an invention of Sam Bam
http://www.alliance4lifemin.org/amchristii.html
PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:
On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George
Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible
bs snipped
***** YOU BABY DIAPER PAIL _ ***** YOUR LIES!
Godwin's
Nope.
.
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| User: " \- Prof. Jonez©" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 06:02:38 PM |
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:J3SVd.192011$Zm5.24740@news.easynews.com...
"- Prof. Jonez©" wrote:
Sam Bam wrote:
UffDa! wrote:
The key is this: are ALL allowed?
They weren't ALL part of our founding principles...
<snip Religious Rightard propaganda>
GEORGE WASHINGTON--Treaty of Tripoli 1796: The government of the
United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian
religion.
President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many
of
his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its
surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly
govern
the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book,
written
in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus
Christ
my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in
the
week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is
factual that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the
Bible for one
hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of
religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a
truly devout man."
President Washington NEVER publicly said he was a Christian. There
is not ONE quotation EVER RECORDED where Washington talks about being
Christian...he only wrote one prayer in his personal diary.
Jefferson even lauded him for this.
"Feb. 1. Dr. Rush tells me that he had it from Asa Green that when the
clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the
Government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never
on any occasion said a word to the public which showed a belief in
the Christian religion and they thought they should so pen their
address as to force him at length to declare publicly whether he was
a Christian or not. They did so. However, he observed, the old fox
was too cunning for them. He answered every article in their address
particularly except that, which he passed over without notice.. "I
know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his secrets and
believed himself to be so, has often told me that General Washington
believed no more in the system (Christianity) than he did." - (The
Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 1, p. 284.)
JOHN ADAMS: Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816. "How has it
happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have
been blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have
made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled
with the sordid and detestable purposes of superstition and
fraud?"
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Notes on Religion, passed in the Assembly of
Virginia, in the Year, 1786. "Millions of innocent men, women and
children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half
hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is
because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."
-President Thomas Jefferson
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed
with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
THOMAS JEFFERSON: Letter to Thomas Whittemore, June 5, 1822:
"Christian creeds and doctrines, the clergy's own fatal
inventions, through all the ages has made of Christendom a
slaughterhouse,
and divided it into sects of inextinguishable hatred for one
another."
"Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come
under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus."
-Thomas Jefferson, To William Canby, 1813
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of
England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law
regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still
used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to
having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.
JAMES MADISON: "The purpose of separation of church and state is
to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has
soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."
"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the
capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each
and
all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
-President James Madison
This quotation is false. Madison never said it. It was never
recorded anywhere in any document ever penned by Madison. It's a
myth...a Revolutionary Urban Legend.
Fundy Religious Rightards like Sam Bam will tell any lie, no
matter how blatant, in a pathetic attempt to bolster their
absurd superstitions.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 06:54:45 PM |
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UffDa! wrote:
Nit pick somewhere else moron, the founding fathers' principles were
Judeo-Christian - PERIOD!
.
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
04 Mar 2005 07:34:26 PM |
|
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:pr7Wd.4088607$f47.732067@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Nit pick somewhere else moron, the founding fathers' principles were
Judeo-Christian - PERIOD!
I am not nitpicking. I am a Historian...but thanks for playing.
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
05 Mar 2005 11:56:26 AM |
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:pr7Wd.4088607$f47.732067@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Nit pick somewhere else moron, the founding fathers' principles were
Judeo-Christian - PERIOD!
I am not nitpicking. I am a Historian...
Mbwhahahaha1!!!
Of what, TV???
.
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| User: "UffDa!" |
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| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 12:22:36 PM |
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"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:epmWd.358019$Zm5.49287@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:pr7Wd.4088607$f47.732067@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Nit pick somewhere else moron, the founding fathers' principles were
Judeo-Christian - PERIOD!
I am not nitpicking. I am a Historian...
Mbwhahahaha1!!!
Of what, TV???
Two Focus Areas:
1) American History - Colonial Period
2) Russian History (I was planning on working for the US Gov't as an analyst
of Soviet intentions...unfortunately they folded...and I had to move on)
.
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| User: "Sam Bam" |
|
| Title: Re: Church and State Need Not be Seperate, Quote the Bugboy |
07 Mar 2005 02:17:09 PM |
|
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UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:epmWd.358019$Zm5.49287@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
"Sam Bam" <sam@bam.slam> wrote in message
news:pr7Wd.4088607$f47.732067@news.easynews.com...
UffDa! wrote:
Nit pick somewhere else moron, the founding fathers' principles were
Judeo-Christian - PERIOD!
I am not nitpicking. I am a Historian...
Mbwhahahaha1!!!
Of what, TV???
Two Focus Areas:
1) American History - Colonial Period
Doubt it.
2) Russian History (I was planning on working for the US Gov't as an analyst
of Soviet intentions...unfortunately they folded...and I had to move on)
They have hardly "folded" - in fact there sis more need of analysis
these days given the break away republics and the fire sale weaponry on
the international market tan ever before.
Where once there was monolithic Kremlin policy arm, now fragmented
quasi-autonomous relations foretell decades of uncertainty.
Perhaps you just copped out.
The government still employs specialists to analyze policy from the
former USSR.
.
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