| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2003 10:44:20 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Constitution grounded in principles of Christianity |
(Old GodsSoldier) wrote:
:|
:|LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
:|of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
:|rants of "right wing" insurrection.
:|
:|Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
:|see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
:|especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
:|the First Amendment.
LOL!!!!!!
Your credibility takes another hit.
Jefferson didn't draft the 3rd Amendment. Today's 1st Amendment was
originally the 3rd Amendment, It didn't become the 1st Amendment until Dec
15, 1791.
Noah Webster had nothing to do with any of the Amendments, or the
Constitution.
But you might enjoy this:
Noah Webster's views on the Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qwebstrn.htm
:|They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
:|Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
:|the Treaty of Tripoli.
LOL!!!!!! What direct influence did the Mayflower Compact have on the
Constitution?
What about the Northwest Ordinance?
The Northwest Ordinance (1787-89
The Northwest Ordinance
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1.htm
The History of the First Sentence of Article III of the Northwest Ordinance
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1a.htm
The Northwest Ordinance does not violate the First Amendment
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b.htm
The Northwest Ordinance did not require schools to teach religion
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b1.htm
R. Freeman Butts on Minor v. Ohio
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwobutt.htm
The Northwest Ordinance did not provide non-preferential aid to the public
school
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b2.htm
The first sentence of Article III of the Northwest Ordinance was a preamble
with few enforceable legal consequences
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b3.htm
A note on "civilizing" the "American Indian"
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwoind.htm
The Northwest Ordinance cannot be read as a commentary on the First
Amendment
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1c.htm
The Northwest Ordinance had no constitutional authority
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1d.htm
The framers of the Northwest Ordinance had no desire to aid religion
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1e.htm
The Northwest Ordinance: Course of Debate
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1785.htm
What importance did the dicta of the Holy Trinity have on anything:
Church of the Holy Trinity v U.S 1892 U.S. Church of the Holy Trinity v
U.S., 143 U.S. 266 Legal research, analysis and writing by Susan Batte,
Esq.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/case17.htm
The "Christian Nation" Decision and Rebuttal.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/holytrin.htm
The Supreme Court has Declared that the United States is a Christian
Nation. Research and writing by Susan Batte
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg7.htm
Holy Trinity and the Christian Nation Dicta. Research and writing by Susan
Batte
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/trinity.htm
Getting to Know Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer. Researched by Susan
Batte
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/brewer.htm
Treaty of Tripoli was actual law, ratified by the U S Senate and signed
into law by President John Adams.
:|They forget the first actions of the US Congress which was to order, and
:|pay for, 20,000 Bibles, and to hire Chaplains.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Endorsement of an American Bible
A critical lack of Bibles in the states led to the involvement of
the Continental Congress in 1777 to solve the problem. No edition of the
Bible in the English language had been published in the colonies before
Independence. As a result of the war, ministers experienced a lack of
Bibles for their services, causing Dr: Patrick Allison, pastor of the First
Presbyterian Church in Baltimore, and a large number of ministers from
diverse faiths to petition Congress to do something to remedy the shortage.
The petition prayed that, "unless timely care be used to prevent it, we
shall not have Bibles for our Schools, and families, and for the publick
Worship of God in our Churches. We therefore think it our Duty to our
Country and to the Churches of Christ to lay this design before this
honourable house, humbly requesting that under your care, and by your
encouragement, a copy of the holy Bible may be printed, so as to be sold
nearly as cheap as the Common Bibles, formerly imported from Britain and
Ireland, were sold."
On 11 September 1777 Congress appointed a committee of John Adams,
Daniel Roberdeau, and Jonathan Bayard Smith to look into the matter. That
same day the committee returned this report:
The committee to whom the memorial of Dr. Allison and others was
referred, report, "That they have conferred fully with the printers, &c.,
in this city, and are of opinion, that the proper types for printing the
Bible are not to be had in this country, and that the paper cannot be
procured, but with such difficulties and subject to such casualties, as
render any dependence on it altogether improper: that to import types for
the purpose of setting up an entire edition of the bible, and to strike off
30,000 copies, with paper, binding &c. will cost £10,272 to, which must be
advanced by Congress, to be reimbursed by the sale of the books: that, in
the opinion of the committee, considerable difficulties will attend the
procuring the types and paper; that afterwards, the risque of importing
them will considerably enhance the cost, and that the calculations are
subject to such uncertainty in the present state of affairs, that Congress
cannot much rely on them: that the use of the Bible is so universal, and
its importance so great, that your committee refer the above to the
consideration of Congress, and if Congress shall not think it expedient to
order the importation of types and paper, the committee recommend that
Congress will order the committee of commerce to import 20,ooo Bibles from
Holland, Scotland, or elsewhere, into the different ports of the states of'
the Union."
In voting on this report, New Hampshire, Massachusetts,
Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Georgia were in
favor of acting on the recommendation to import, at Congress's expense,
20,000 Bibles; New York, Delaware, North Carolina, South Carolina,
Virginia, and Maryland opposed such action. Despite the affirmative vote,
the margin of one vote led Congress to table the matter, and no final
action was taken.
[snip]
In the meantime, Robert Aitken (1734 1802), a patriotic
Philadelphia printer and a Presbyterian elder, had proceeded on his own
initiative and published an American edition of the Bible. In January 1781
he petitioned Congress for an endorsement of his project and for financial
support. He received the former but not the latter." Congress's endorsement
of the Bible without allocating funds for the project is indeed a strong
evidence that Congress was deeply committed to the importance of religion
for the new republic, but equally unwilling, for whatever reason, to become
financially involved.
Although Congress gave no financial aid to the project, the
Pennsylvania legislature advanced $700 to Aitken to complete the work."
(SOURCE OF INFORMATION: Religion and the Continental
Congress, 1774-1789, Contributions to original Intent. Derek H. Davis.
Oxford University Press, (2000) pp 144-146)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Madison 'pocket" vetoed the following:
"An act for the free importation of Stereotype plates, and to encourage the
printing and gratuitous distribution of the Scriptures by the bible
societies within the United States." Not approved.
SEE:
Some of The First Official Meanings Assigned to The Establishment Clause
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/madvetos.htm
Chaplains
An Overview from 1774 to early 1800's
Chaplains and Congress
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/chaptest.htm
The Political Move That Backfired
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/backfire.htm
Duche's Letter To Washington
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/duche.htm
First Federal Congress (1789)
Chaplains
Chief Justice Burger, I Would Like You To Meet Mr. Madison
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/meet.htm
Discrepancies
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/discrep.htm
AND
Excerpts from James Madison's Detached Memoranda (written after 1817)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/detach.htm
:|
:|They want to forget that the first Universities were began in this
:|country to promote Christianity.
University of Virginia wasn't.
:|They wish to remember Mann, or Dewey,
:|whose purpose in establishing the government educational system was to
:|promote the secular/humanist beliefs, and to erase the vestiges of a
:|belief in God.
79. A Bill for the More General Diffusion of Knowledge (1778)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw1.htm
80. A Bill for Amending the Constitution of the College of William and
Mary, and Substituting More Certain Revenues for Its Support (1779)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw2.htm
81. A Bill for Establishing a Public Library (1779)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw3.htm
A Bill Establishing a Provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion
(1784)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/assessb.htm
James Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance (June,1785)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/memorial.htm
Jefferson's Bill for Religious Freedom (Passed December, 1785)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/statute.htm
Thomas Jefferson supported Bible reading in school; this is proven by his
service as the first president of the Washington, D.C. public schools,
which used the Bible and Watt's Hymns as textbooks for reading.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg6.htm
Another Jefferson Quote Debunked
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefschl1.htm
Jefferson, Religion, and the Public Schools.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/jeffschl.htm
Short General History of The Federal Government and Education
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/educ.htm
*********************************************
#1
Subject: religion/education/taxes/early America
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:06:45 -0500
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=kgafbtk11st0c1k23iho575mg5sa94c3l9%404ax.com&output=gplain
#2
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ngafbtougmt58uuai57qpt0guiv93k1gn5%404ax.com&output=gplain
#3
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=qgafbt8dduj6sq5dt7bmk5cm6i4dm8aqup%404ax.com&output=gplain
#4
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=sgafbtc3v817rohpdhj4kmai7k2n3joq9b%404ax.com&output=gplain
#5
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=vgafbts092n46vq3f2cc6vbq8f78tgbe70%404ax.com&output=gplain
#6
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1hafbt0cuhno58j7u9vpcuape484a13bgi%404ax.com&output=gplain
#7
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4hafbto1mpqjkrep27kmqrqk3ics9v8rm6%404ax.com&output=gplain
#8
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6hafbt0tts24bp5n32j8avujet2rdjf50o%404ax.com&output=gplain
#9
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8hafbt4rsugsud0vr9tcnh12au336mvl49%404ax.com&output=gplain
#10
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bhafbtc0pbvpseo1f9rlfc0buau5gn5qvv%404ax.com&output=gplain
#11
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=lhafbt8ia91amju98poe52a609lnaj4che%404ax.com&output=g
:|Ah yes, and they wish to ignore the fruits of their "educational" system
:|which has brought about higher illiteracy, increased promiscuity in
:|teens (resulting in the increases of STD's such as Chalmydia, the spread
:|of AIDS, and aborted babies). They wish to ignore the increase in
:|violence in the schools, and on the streets, of teens.
I see you have been reading a lot of Barton
The Barton Chronicles
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/bartchro.htm
.
|
|
| User: "Thales" |
|
| Title: Re: Constitution grounded in principles of Christianity |
20 Oct 2003 05:07:01 PM |
|
|
wrote in message news:<7m08pvgqqpvocql00d9pumjqtr1sg8os7k@4ax.com>...
GodsSoldier57@webtv.net (Old GodsSoldier) wrote:
:|
:|LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
:|of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
:|rants of "right wing" insurrection.
:|
:|Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
:|see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
:|especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
:|the First Amendment.
LOL!!!!!!
Your credibility takes another hit.
Jefferson didn't draft the 3rd Amendment. Today's 1st Amendment was
originally the 3rd Amendment, It didn't become the 1st Amendment until Dec
15, 1791.
Noah Webster had nothing to do with any of the Amendments, or the
Constitution.
But you might enjoy this:
Noah Webster's views on the Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qwebstrn.htm
:|They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
:|Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
:|the Treaty of Tripoli.
LOL!!!!!! What direct influence did the Mayflower Compact have on the
Constitution?
What about the Northwest Ordinance?
VERY INTERESTING~!
The History of the First Sentence of Article III of the Northwest Ordinance
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1a.htm
The History of the First Sentence of Article III of the Northwest
Ordinance
Accomodationists rarely mention the history behind the first sentence
of Article III of the Northwest Ordinance, and for good reason; the
sentence does not reflect either the historical circumstances or the
thinking that led to the passage of the Ordinance. Rather, the
sentence was inserted into the document at the last minute at the
urging of a group of New England land speculators for perfectly
idiosyncratic reasons. There is nothing that one can conclude from the
sentence except that the Continental Congress would have done anything
to please the people they wanted to develop the Northwest Territory.
Research and writing by Jim Allison
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New England group, known as The Ohio Company Associates, was a
group of Revolutionary War veterans. The leadership of this group was
made up by Benjamin Tupper, General Rufus Putnam, Samuel Holden
Parson, and its chief agent, the skillful lobbyist Manasseh Cutler,
who was an ex-army chaplain. Reverend Cutler was known as that
"wheeler-dealer" from New England.
The Ohio Associates main business was land speculation, but the
management, at least, had a secondary business. This was a time when
various states were disestablishing religion, separating civil
governments from religion, and granting complete religious freedom to
their citizens. The New England States, as a whole, had a history of
close involvement between church/state, even to the extreme of having
had theocracies in some places in the previous century. To say the
least, they were reluctant to embrace the emerging doctrine of
church/state separation. They were also extremely fearful of the
spread of what they termed "Popery" (i.e. Catholicism). True religious
freedom was a scary concept for many people, especially in the New
England states. When the ban against religious tests was placed in
Article VI of the Federal Constitution (the true separation clause),
for example, editorials throughout the New England area bemoaned the
fact in almost panic terms.
The Ohio Company Associates were very desirous, at the least, of
protecting their religious viewpoints, and possibly spreading it
beyond their own state boundaries. What is more, the Associates were
in a position to get just about anything they wanted from Congress,
since Congress wanted to ensure that Cutler and his group would buy
large tracts of land in the Territories. Accordingly, The Ohio Company
Associates pressed Congress hard to get both a good deal on the land,
and a guarantee that they could implement their own church/state
system on this land.
By all accounts they were successful in achieving both goals. With
respect to land speculation, historian Richard B. Morris notes the
following:
Even the provisions for land sales at public auction, ..., did not
satisfy the speculators. In July 1787, the Ohio Company Associates
offered to buy a million and a half acres lying beyond the survey for
a dollar an acre payment in loan office certificates issued to
officers and soldiers of the Continental Army. This was a great deal
for the associates since the national debt certificates were selling
on the open market at 10 cents on the dollar....
To win a key ally, the associates proposed making General Arthur St.
Clair territorial governor. At that time St. Clair was serving as
president of Congress....[Note: the President of Congress was the
forerunner of President of the United States, and under the Articles
of Confederation the holder of this office also had the right to vote
as a member of Congress. That meant that whomever held that office not
only had the power of persuasion, as did any member of Congress, he
also controlled one vote, his own, and had the added prestige of that
particular position. That position at that time did not have the full
powers or authority that it would gain under the Constitution, as the
position of President of the United States, yet it did carry some
intangibles as far as "authority" was concerned.]
The deal had smooth sailing. Not only did Cutler's group get the
million and half acres but also an option on another five million. As
part of the " understanding," St. Clair was elected the first
territorial governor, Winthrop Sargent, one of the Ohio Company
principles, territorial secretary (The Forging of the Union: 171-1789,
p. 228-229).
They were almost as successful in getting Congress to agree to their
religious demands. Briefly, because of the influence of the Ohio
Company Associates, the New England voting block refused to vote for
the Ordinance unless it contained language allowing for some type of
religious establishment. Accordingly, only two days before its
passage, the following language was written into Article III of the
Ordinance:
Institutions for the promotion of religion and morality, schools and
the means of education shall forever be encouraged.
In the final version of the amendment, however, this strong language
calling for the encouragement of religious institutions was dropped in
favor of the following:
Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government
and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall
forever be encouraged.
Hence, the Ohio Company Associates were unable to get everything they
wanted. While they were successful in getting Congress to agree that
religion and morality were necessary to good government, the language
of the ordinance did not explicitly authorize support for religious
institutions, or religious instruction in the schools. As
constitutional scholar Derek Davis observes, this change in wording
"could indicate that at least some members of Congress were at least
considering `establishment' overtones; they may have been attempting
to ensure that the sustenance of religious life would come from the
people and the schools, not from government (Original Intent, p.
108-109).
In summary, there is little evidence that Congress had any particular
interest in writing establishment of religion into the Northwest
Ordinance. On the contrary, the first sentence of Article III would
likely never have been written at all in the absence of the influence
of the Ohio Company Associates. Further, the language of the Ordinance
was watered down to obscure any direct support for religion. There is
nothing in the history of the Ordinance, in other words, to suggest
that the first sentence of Article III was either a well thought-out
policy, or a deliberate attempt by Congress to aid religion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Constitution grounded in principles of Christianity |
21 Oct 2003 07:24:17 AM |
|
|
(Thales) wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote in message news:<7m08pvgqqpvocql00d9pumjqtr1sg8os7k@4ax.com>...
:|> (Old GodsSoldier) wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
:|> >:|of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
:|> >:|rants of "right wing" insurrection.
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
:|> >:|see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
:|> >:|especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
:|> >:|the First Amendment.
:|>
:|> LOL!!!!!!
:|>
:|> Your credibility takes another hit.
:|>
:|> Jefferson didn't draft the 3rd Amendment. Today's 1st Amendment was
:|> originally the 3rd Amendment, It didn't become the 1st Amendment until Dec
:|> 15, 1791.
:|>
:|> Noah Webster had nothing to do with any of the Amendments, or the
:|> Constitution.
:|>
:|> But you might enjoy this:
:|>
:|> Noah Webster's views on the Separation of Church and State
:|> http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qwebstrn.htm
:|>
:|> >:|They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
:|> >:|Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
:|> >:|the Treaty of Tripoli.
:|>
:|> LOL!!!!!! What direct influence did the Mayflower Compact have on the
:|> Constitution?
:|>
:|> What about the Northwest Ordinance?
:|
:|
:|
:|VERY INTERESTING~!
:|
:|> The History of the First Sentence of Article III of the Northwest Ordinance
:|> http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1a.htm
The rest of the series is just as interesting if not more so.
The Northwest Ordinance (1787-89
The Northwest Ordinance
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1.htm
The History of the First Sentence of Article III of the Northwest
Ordinance
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1a.htm
The Northwest Ordinance does not violate the First Amendment
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b.htm
The Northwest Ordinance did not require schools to teach
religion
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b1.htm
R. Freeman Butts on Minor v. Ohio
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwobutt.htm
The Northwest Ordinance did not provide non-preferential
aid to the public
school
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b2.htm
The first sentence of Article III of the Northwest
Ordinance was a preamble
with few enforceable legal consequences
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1b3.htm
A note on "civilizing" the "American Indian"
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwoind.htm
The Northwest Ordinance cannot be read as a commentary on the First
Amendment
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1c.htm
The Northwest Ordinance had no constitutional authority
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1d.htm
The framers of the Northwest Ordinance had no desire to aid
religion
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1e.htm
The Northwest Ordinance: Course of Debate
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/nwo1785.htm
and you can add to that the following:
#1
From:
Newsgroups:
misc.education,alt.religion.christian,alt.society.conservatism,alt.atheism
Subject: edu.govt.taxes, Northwest Ordinance
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:44:26 -0500
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=nocfbtcbrfo9aaecg0pdf6r4ie3a4df6ul%404ax.com&output=gplain
#2
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=socfbtk6h334p28lm2aii0jt24tt3chta0%404ax.com&output=gplain
#3
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#4
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#5
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#6
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#7
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#8
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#9
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=felhbt85trl40j1ih8u3pr8lgb0n3o926c%404ax.com&output=gplain
*****************************************
Vouchers: Our Position
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouposit.htm
Study Guide for Vouchers
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd4.htm
Historical Data Against "Vouchers"
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouchist.htm
Short General History of The Federal Government and Education
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/educ.htm
*********************************************
R. FREEMAN BUTTS
#1
Subject: religion/education/taxes/early America
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:06:45 -0500
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=kgafbtk11st0c1k23iho575mg5sa94c3l9%404ax.com&output=gplain
#2
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ngafbtougmt58uuai57qpt0guiv93k1gn5%404ax.com&output=gplain
#3
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=qgafbt8dduj6sq5dt7bmk5cm6i4dm8aqup%404ax.com&output=gplain
#4
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=sgafbtc3v817rohpdhj4kmai7k2n3joq9b%404ax.com&output=gplain
#5
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=vgafbts092n46vq3f2cc6vbq8f78tgbe70%404ax.com&output=gplain
#6
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1hafbt0cuhno58j7u9vpcuape484a13bgi%404ax.com&output=gplain
#7
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4hafbto1mpqjkrep27kmqrqk3ics9v8rm6%404ax.com&output=gplain
#8
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6hafbt0tts24bp5n32j8avujet2rdjf50o%404ax.com&output=gplain
#9
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8hafbt4rsugsud0vr9tcnh12au336mvl49%404ax.com&output=gplain
#10
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bhafbtc0pbvpseo1f9rlfc0buau5gn5qvv%404ax.com&output=gplain
#11
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=lhafbt8ia91amju98poe52a609lnaj4che%404ax.com&output=g
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "ambrose searle" |
|
| Title: Re: Constitution grounded in principles of Christianity |
20 Oct 2003 11:18:57 PM |
|
|
wrote in message news:<7m08pvgqqpvocql00d9pumjqtr1sg8os7k@4ax.com>...
GodsSoldier57@webtv.net (Old GodsSoldier) wrote:
:|
:|LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
:|of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
:|rants of "right wing" insurrection.
:|
:|Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
:|see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
:|especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
:|the First Amendment.
LOL!!!!!!
Your credibility takes another hit.
Jefferson didn't draft the 3rd Amendment. Today's 1st Amendment was
originally the 3rd Amendment, It didn't become the 1st Amendment until Dec
15, 1791.
Noah Webster had nothing to do with any of the Amendments, or the
Constitution.
Precisely the poster's point! Noah Webster was as important as
Jefferson in drafting the first amendment. Neither had any important
role in its drafting.
:|They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
:|Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
:|the Treaty of Tripoli.
LOL!!!!!! What direct influence did the Mayflower Compact have on the
Constitution?
Quite a bit, but it takes a little more academic sophistication than
you exhibit. If you want to challenge yourself to become slightly
scholarly, I'd recommend you begin with some of Dr. Lutz' writings:
Donald S. Lutz: "From Covenant to Constitution in American Political
Thought." Publius 10 (Fall 1980), 101-133.
Donald S. Lutz: A Covenanted People. The Religious Tradition and the
Origins of American Constitutionalism. The John Carter Brown Library:
Providence, RI, 1987.
Donald S. Lutz: The Origins of American Constitutionalism. Baton Rouge
and London: Louisiana State UP, 1988.
Donald S. Lutz (edited, introductory essay): Colonial Origins of the
American Constitution. A Documentary History. Indianapolis: Liberty
Fund, 1998.
Ambrose
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Constitution grounded in principles of Christianity |
21 Oct 2003 07:40:38 AM |
|
|
(ambrose searle) wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote in message news:<7m08pvgqqpvocql00d9pumjqtr1sg8os7k@4ax.com>...
:|> (Old GodsSoldier) wrote:
:|>
:|> >:|
:|> >:|LOL, I always get a laugh out of the radical Atheists, and their screams
:|> >:|of "unfair" when it comes to a valid discussion of the Constitution. Or
:|> >:|rants of "right wing" insurrection.
:|> >:|
:|> >:|Then they take from the writings of the Framers just what they want to
:|> >:|see, and ignore the thoughts, and beliefs, of the other 30+ signers, and
:|> >:|especially Noah Webster who was as important as Jefferson in drafting
:|> >:|the First Amendment.
:|>
:|> LOL!!!!!!
:|>
:|> Your credibility takes another hit.
:|>
:|> Jefferson didn't draft the 3rd Amendment. Today's 1st Amendment was
:|> originally the 3rd Amendment, It didn't become the 1st Amendment until Dec
:|> 15, 1791.
:|>
:|> Noah Webster had nothing to do with any of the Amendments, or the
:|> Constitution.
:|
:|Precisely the poster's point! Noah Webster was as important as
:|Jefferson in drafting the first amendment. Neither had any important
:|role in its drafting.
:|
:|> >:|They ignore such documents as the Mayflower Compact, the Northwest
:|> >:|Ordinance, or the ruling of the USSC in Trinity. Instead they rely of
:|> >:|the Treaty of Tripoli.
:|>
:|> LOL!!!!!! What direct influence did the Mayflower Compact have on the
:|> Constitution?
:|
:|Quite a bit, but it takes a little more academic sophistication than
:|you exhibit. If you want to challenge yourself to become slightly
:|scholarly, I'd recommend you begin with some of Dr. Lutz' writings:
:|
:|Donald S. Lutz: "From Covenant to Constitution in American Political
:|Thought." Publius 10 (Fall 1980), 101-133.
:|
:|Donald S. Lutz: A Covenanted People. The Religious Tradition and the
:|Origins of American Constitutionalism. The John Carter Brown Library:
:|Providence, RI, 1987.
:|
:|Donald S. Lutz: The Origins of American Constitutionalism. Baton Rouge
:|and London: Louisiana State UP, 1988.
:|
:|Donald S. Lutz (edited, introductory essay): Colonial Origins of the
:|American Constitution. A Documentary History. Indianapolis: Liberty
:|Fund, 1998.
:|
:|Ambrose
This is this weeks reading list, I will get to those next week (grin)
001 Wilson, John Church & State in American History
002 Dunn, Charles American Political Theology
003 Pfeffer, Leo Church, State and Freedom
004 Meister, Charles Founding Fathers, The
005 Veit, Helen 1991 Creating the Bill of Rights, The
documentary record of the 1st Federal Congress
006 Blau, Joseph 1949 Cornerstones of Religious Freedom in
America
007 Prichett, Herman 1977 American Constitution, The
008 Crosskey, William Politics and the Constitution in the
history of the U.S.
009 Elliot, Jonathan 1888 Debates of the State Conventions
Vol I
010 Elliot, Jonathan 1888 Debates of the State Conventions
Vol II
011 Elliot, Jonathan 1888 Debates of the State Conventions
Vol III
012 Elliot, Jonathan 1888 Debates of the State Conventions
Vol IV
013 Elliot, Jonathan 1888 Debates of the State Conventions
Vol V
014 Antieau, Chester 1996 Modern Constitutional Law, The
Individual & the Government
015 Randolph, T. J. Memoir, Correspondence & Misc. of Thomas
Jefferson
016 Flowers, Ronald That Godless Court
017 Pfeffer, Leo 1984 Religion, State and the Berger Court
018 Abraham, Henry 1994 Freedom & the Court Civil Rights &
Liberties in the U.S., 6th Ed.
019 Alley, Robert Supreme Court on Church and State, The
020 Torpey, William 1970 Judicial Doctrines of Religious Rights
021 Lockard, Duane Basic Cases in Constitutional Law
022 Dornan, Robert 1986 Judicial Supremacy
023 Peterson, Merrill 1988 Virginia Statute for Religious
Freedom. The
024 Morris, Richard Forging of the Union, 1781 * 1789, The
025 Rodell, Fred 55 Men, The story of the Constitution,
based on the day to day notes of James
Madison
026 Goldwin, Robert 1987 How does the Constitution Protect Religious
Freedom
027 Pfeffer, Leo 1977 Religious Freedom
028 Curry, Thomas First Freedoms, Church & State in America
to the passage of the First
Amendment, The
029 Frankel, Marvin 1994 Faith and Freedom, Religious Liberty in
America
030 Sorauf, Frank 1976 Wall of Separation, The constitutional
politics of church & state, The
031 Levy, Leonard Original Intent & the Framers' Constitution
032 Borden, Morton 1984 Jews, Turks and Infidels
033 Cord, Robert Separation of Church and State: Historical
Fact & Current Fiction
034 Butts, R. Freeman 1950 American Tradition in Religion and
Education, The
035 Cremin, Laurence 1970 American Education, The colonial
experience 1607-1783
036 Butts, R. Freeman 1978 Public Education in the U.S., from
revolution to reform
037 Must, Art Jr. 1992 Why we still need public schools,
Church/state relations, and Visions of
Democracy
038 Brewer, David J. 1905 United States A Christian Nation,
The
039 Thorpe, Francis 1970 Constitutional History of the U.S., The
1765-1895 Vol II 1788-1861
040 Thorpe, Francis 1970 Constitutional History of the U.S.
1765-1895 Vol III 1861-1895, The
041 Levy, Daniel C. 1986 Private Education, Studies in
Choice & Public Policy,
042 Wiecek, William Liberty Under the Law Supreme Court &
American Life
043 Berube, Maurice 1991 American Presidents and Education
044 Doerr/Menendez 1991 Church Schools and Public Money: The
politics of parochiaid
045 Stickney/Marcus 1984 Great Education Debate, Washington & the
Schools, The
046 McCoy, Drew R. Last of the fathers, James Madison and the
Republican Legacy, The
047 Rutland, Robert Presidency of James Madison, The
048 Selby, John E. Revolution in Virginia, 1775-1783, The
049 Benton, William 1968 Annals of America: Vol II 1755-1783
Resistance & Revolution, The
050 Benton, William Annals of America:Vol III 1784-1796
Organizing the New Nation, The
051 Benton, William Annals of America:Vol IV 1797-1820 Domestic
Expansion & Entanglements, The
052 Rutland, Robert Papers of James Madison: Presidential
Series Mar - Sept 1809 Volume I, The
053 Hutchinson, William Papers of James Madison Vol. 1
3/16/1751 - 12/16/1779, The
054 Rutland, Robert Papers of James Madison Vol. 8 3/10/1784 -
3/28/1786, The
055 Rutland, Robert Papers of James Madison Vol. 10 5/27/1787 -
3/3/1788, The
056 Rutland, Robert Papers of James Madison Vol. 11 3/7/1788 -
3/1/1789, The
057 Hobson, Charlea Papers of James Madison Vol. 12 3/2/1789 -
1/20/1790, The
058 Hobson, Charlea Papers of James Madison Vol. 13 1/20/1790 -
3/31/1791, The
059 Rutland, Robert Papers of James Madison Vol. 14 4/6/1791 -
3/16/1793, The
060 Story, Joseph 1970 Commentaries on the Constitution of the
U.S.
061 Cooley, Thomas 1871 Treatise on the Constitutional Limits which
rest upon the legislative power of
the states of the American Union
062 Cooley, Thomas 1898 General principles of constitution law in
the US of America, The
063 McWhirter, Darien A 1994 Separation of Church and State, The
064 Lieberman, Jethro 1994 Evolving Constitution, The 1994
Supplement
065 Lieberman, Jethro 1995 Evolving Constitution, The 1995
Supplement
066 Lieberman, Jethro 1996 Evolving Constitution, The 1996
Supplement
067 Padover, Saul Complete Madison His Basic Writings, The
068 Story, William 1851 Life & letters of Joseph Story
069 Richardson, James 1908 Messages & Papers of the Presidents
Vol 1 1789-1908
070 Brant, Irving 1950 James Madison Father of the Constitution
Vol. III 1787-1800
071 Brant, Irving 1948 James Madison the Nationalist 1780-1787
072 Proctor, John C. 1930 Washington: Past & Present A
History Vol I
073 Malone, Dumas 1948 Jefferson & His time Vol I
074 Lapati, Americo 1975 Education & the Federal Government A
Historical Record
075 King, Charles 1971 Life & Correspondence of Rufus King Vol I
1755-1794, The
076 Williams, Frederick 1988 Northwest Ordinance Essays on its
forulation, provisions and legacy
077 Barrett, Jay 1971 Evolution of the Ordinance of 1787
078 Mayer, David 1994 Constitutional Thought of Thomas Jefferson,
The
079 Goldwin, Robert Why Blacks, Women and Jews are not
mentioned in the Constitution, and other
unorthodox Views
080 Wilson, J. Ormond 1897 Records of the Columbia Historical
Society Volume I "Eighty Years of the
Public Schools of Washington 1805 - 1885
081 Brigham, John Constitutional Language: An Interpretation
of Judicial Doctrine
082 Manzullo, Donald Neither Sacred nor Profane: The
Sup. Ct. & the Church
083 Kurland, Phillip Founders' Constitution (Article 2,
Section 2 through Article 7) Vol 4., The
084 Morris, B.F. Christian Life & Character of the Civil
Institutions of the U.S.
085 Schwartz, Herman Burger Years, The Rights & Wrongs
in the Sup Ct , 1969-1986
086 Caro, Mendacia N. Law, Liberty and License
087 Brant, Irving 1965 Bill of Rights, Its orgin and meaning, The
088 Morgan, Robert 1988 James Madison on the Constitution and the B
of Rts.
089 Buckley, Thomas 1977 Church and State in Revolutionary Virginia
1776-1787
090 Hyneman, Charles 1983 American Political Writing
during the Founding Vol I 1760-1805
091 Hyneman, Charles 19 American Political Writing during
the Founding Vol II 1760-1805
092 Corwin, Edwin 1978 Constitution, what it means today, The
093 Maguire, Daniel New Subversives, Anti-Americanisn of the
Religious Right, The
094 Kelley, Dean Government Intervention in Religious
Affairs
095 Cousins, Norman In God We Trust - The religious beliefs and
ideas of the American Founding
Fathers
096 Wunder, John 1994 Retained by the People A History of the
American Indians and the Bill of Rights
097 Friendly, Fred Constitution: That delicate balance, The
098 Eidsmore, John Christianity and Constitution The faith of
our founding fathers
099 Conway & Seigelman Holy Terror - The fundamentalist
War on American's Freedoms in Religion,
politics and our private lives
100 Johnson, James 1985 Bible in American Law, Politics and
Political, and Political Rhetoric, The
101 Rakove, Jack 1990 Interpreting the Constitution - the debate
over original intent
102 OED Definitions of the Establishment Clause
103 Healey, Robert 1970 Jefferson on Religion in Public Education
104 Belz, Herman 1992 To Form a More Perfect Union The critical
Ideas of the Constitution
105 Greene, Thurston 1991 Language of the Constitution, A
sourcebook and guide to the ideas, terms,
& vocabulary used by the framers of the U.S. Const., The
106 Chinard, Gilbert 1926 Commonplace Book of Thomas
Jefferson, A repertory of his ideas on
government Extra Volume II, The
107 Ford, Paul L. 1892 Writings of Thomas Jefferson Volume I
1760-1775, The
108 Libscomb, Andrew 1903 Writings of Thomas Jefferson Volume
II Library Ed., The
109 Ford, Paul L. 1897 Writings of Thomas Jefferson Volume V
1760-1775, The
110 Ford, Paul L. 1897 Writings of Thomas Jefferson Volume VII
1760-1775, The
111 Ford, Paul L. 1897 Writings of Thomas Jefferson Volume VIII
1760-1775, The
112 1860 Debates of Congress 1789 - 1756 Volume I, The
113 McFarland, C.K. Readings in Intellectual History The
American Tradition
114 Hacker, Louis Shaping of the American Tradition, The
115 Adams, Henry History of the United States of America
during the administration of James
Madison
116 Carwardine, Richard Know-Nothing Party, The
117 Butler, John P 1978 Index: The Papers of the Continental
Congress 1774 -1789 Vol III
118 Banning, Lance 1995 Jefferson & Madison Three conversations
from the founding
119 Abraham, Henry 1985 Justices & Presidents A political history
of appointments to the Supreme Court
120 Boyd, Julian P 1950 Papers of Thomas Jefferson Vol 2 1777 to
June 1779, The
121 Boyd, Julian P 1950 Papers of Thomas Jefferson Vol 4 1777 to
June 1779, The
122 Boyd, Julian P 1950 Papers of Thomas Jefferson Vol 6 1777 to
June 1779, The
123 Papers of Washington, Presidential Series Vol 4
124 Chinard, Gilbert 1929 Thomas Jefferson, The Apostle of
Americanism
125 Taylor, Robert Colonial Connecticut A History
126 Munroe, John A Colonial Delaware A History
127 Coleman, Kenneth Colonial Georgia A History
128 Land, Aubrey Colonial Maryland A History
129 Labaree, Benja Colonial Massachusetts A History
130 Daniell, Jere Colonial New Hampshire A History
131 Pomfret, John Colonial New Jersey A History
132 Kammen, Michae Colonial New York A History
133 Lefler, Hugh Colonial North Carolina A History
134 Illick, Joseph Colonial Pennsylvania A History
135 James, Sydney Colonial Rhode Island A History
136 Weir, Robert Colonial South Carolina A History
137 Billings, Warr Colonial Virginia A History
138 Nevins, Allan 1969 American States during and after the
revolution 1775-1789, The
139 McLoughlin, Wiliam 1968 Isaac Backus on Church, State &
Calvinism Pamphlets, 1754-1789
140 Hunt, Gaillard 1811 Writings of James Madison, The
141 Scott, E.H. Journal of the Federal Convention kept by
James Madison
142 Bradford, M.E. Founding Fathers Brief Lives of the framers
of the U.S. Constitution
143 McClellan, James Joseph Story & the American
Constitution
144 Cobb, Sanford 1968 Rise of Religious Liberty in America, A
History, The
145 St. John, Jeffrey 1992 Forge of Union Anvil of Liberty, A
Correspondent's Report on the first federal
elections, the first federal Congress and the Bill of Rts
146 McCuen, Gary 1989 Religion and Politics Issues in Religious
liberty
147 Swancara, Frank 1969 Thomas Jefferson versus Religious
Oppression
148 Curtis, Michael 1986 No State Shall Abridge the 14th A and the
Bill of Rights
149 Christman, Margaret 1989 First Federal Congress 1789-1791,
The
150 Schwartz, Bernard 1992 Great Rights of Mankind, A History
of the American Bill of Rights, The
151 Foner, Eric Reconstruction America's Unfinished
Revolution 1863 * 1877
152 Schechter, Stephen 1990 Roots of the Republic American
Founding Documents Interpreted
153 Cortner, Richard Supreme Court and the 2nd Bill of
Rights, The 14th amendment and the
nationalization of civil liberties, The
154 Rutland, Robert 1983 Birth of the Bill of Rights, 1776-1791, The
155 Irons, Peter 1994 Brennan v. Rehnquist The Battle for the
Constitution
156 Klinkner, Philip American Heritage History of the B
of Rts: the 1st A, The
157 Hakim, Joy Reconstruction and Reform
158 Carter, Lief Intro to Constitutional Interpretation
Cases in Law and Religion, An
159 Klinkhamer, Sister Blaine Amendment of 1875: Private
Motives for Political Action, The
160 Hickok, Eugene 1991 Bill of Rights Original Meaning and Current
Understanding, The
161 Weber, Paul & Gilbert, 1981 Private Churches and Public money
Church-Government Fiscal Relations
162 Tribe, Laurence 1988 American Constitutional Law, Second Edition
163 Malone, Dumas 1975 Story of the Declaration of Independence,
The
164 James, Charles 1971 Documentary History of the Struggle for
Religious Liberty in VA
165 Antieau, Chester Religion Under the State
Constitutions
166 Swanson, James 1995 First Amendment Law Handbook, 1994-1995
167 Weber, Paul 1990 Equal Separation Understanding the Religion
Clauses of the 1st A.
168 Malone, Dumas 1970 Jefferson and his Time, Vol 4, Jefferson
the President First term, 1801-1805
169 Schwartz, Bernard 1980 Roots of the Bill of Rights Vol 1
and 5, The
170 Van der Veer Hamilton Hugo Black and the Bill of Rights
Proceedings of the 1st Hugo Black symposium
in American History on "The Bill of Rights and American Democracy"
171 Stone, Geoffrey Bill of Rights in the Modern State, The
172 Schwartz, Bernard 1980 Roots of the Bill of Rights, Vol 5,
The
173 Antieau, Chester 1960 Commentaries on the Constitution of
the U.S.
174 Downs, Robert First Freedom Today, The
175 Lienesch, Mich Redeeming America
176 Daly, John Religion and the Constitution
177 Hickok, Eugene Bill of Rights: Original Meaning & Current
Understanding, The
178 Malbin, Michael 1978 Religion and Politics: The Intentions of
the Authors of the 1st Am.
179 Bates, M. S. Religious Liberty: An Inquiry
180 Adair, Douglas Fame and the Founding Fathers
181 Howe, Mark Garden and the Wilderness: Religion &
Government in American,
The Constitutional History
182 Bradley, Gerar Church-State Relationships in America
183 Kaminksi, John 1988 Constitution and the States - The role of
the original 13 in the framing and
adoption of the Federal Constitution
184 Jensen, Merrill 1976 Documentary History of the Ratification of
the Constitution Vol 1
Constitutional Documents and Records n1776 -1787, The
185 Jensen, Merrill 1976 Documentary History of the Ratification of
the Constitution by the States,
PA Vol 2, The
186 Jensen, Merrill 1978 Documentary History of the Ratification of
the Constitution by the States:
DE, NJ, GA, CN Vol 3, The
187 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 8, The
188 Kaminksi, John 1990 Documentary History of the Ratification of
the Constitution by VA Vol 9, The
189 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 10 VA, The
190 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 13
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 2/21-11/7 1787, The
191 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 14
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 11/8-12/17 1787, The
192 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 15
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 12/18-1/31 1788, The
193 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 16
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 2/1-3/31 1788, The
194 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 17
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 4/1-5/9 1788, The
195 Kaminski, John Doc History of the Ratification of the
Constitution: Vol 18
Commentaries on the Constitution: Public and Private 5/10-9/13 1788, The
196 Conley, Patrick 1992 Bill of Rights and the States The Colonial
and Revolutionary Origins of
American Liberties, The
197 Tyack, David This Constitution Our Enduring Legacy
(Education for a Republic:
Federal Influence on Public Schooling in the Nation's First Century)
198 Lieberman, Jethro Enduring Constitution: A
Bicentennial Perspective, The
199 Wood, James E. Religion and the State
200 Miller, William Lee First Liberty: Religion and the
American Republic, The
201 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 1, The
202 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 2, The
203 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 3, The
204 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 4, The
205 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 5, The
206 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 6, The
207 Storing, Herb Complete Anti-Federalist: Volume 7, The
208 Kramnick, Issac Godless Constitution: The Case Against
Religious Correctness, The
209 Handlin, Oscar Liberty in America 1600-present: Vol 2
Liberty in Expansion 1760-1850
210 Pfeffer, Leo God, Caesar, and the Constitution
211 Katz, Wilber Religion and American Constitutions
212 Levy, Leonard Seasoned Judgments: The American
Constitution, Rights, and History
213 Antieau, Chest Freedom From Federal Establishment:
Formation and Early History of the First
Amendment Religion Clauses
214 Lambert, Richard 1979 Annals, the uneasy boundary Church
& State
215 Furer, Howard Fuller Court Vol 5: On Justice David
Brewer, The
216 Brodhead, Michael David J. Brewer: The life of a
Supreme Court Justice 1837-1910
217 Dorsen, Norman Our Endangered Rights, the ACLU report on
civil liberties today
218 Tarr, G. Alan 1977 Judicial Impact & State Supreme Courts
219 Levy, Leonard 1992 Encyclopedia of the American Constitution
Suppment I
220 Kurland, Philip & Lerner, Ralph Founders' Constitution
(Amendments 1 - 12) Volume 5, The
221 Gunn, T. Jeremy 1992 Standard for Repair: The Establishment
Clause, Equality and Natural Rights,(A
222 Boller, Paul George Washington & Religion
223 Beveridge, Albert 1919 Life of John Marshall Vol 2, The
224 Beveridge, Albert 1919 Life of John Marshall Vol 3, The
225 Beveridge, Albert 1919 Life of John Marshall Vol 4, The
226 Farrand, Max 1913 Framing of the Constitution of the United
States, The
227 Smith, Christopher 1993 Justice Antonin Scalia and the
Supreme Court's Conservative
228 Casto, William R. 1995 Supreme Court in the Early Repulic
The Chief Judgeships of John Jay and
Oliver Ellsworth, The
229 Ford, Paul 1823 Writings of Thomas Jefferson - Page 246,
The
230 Hunt, Gaillard 1903 Writings of James Madison (Vol. IV, Page
206, The
231 Hunt, Gaillard 1906 Writings of James Madison (Vol. VI, Page
347, The
232 Hunt, Gaillard 1908 Writings of James Madison (Vol. VIII, Page
385, The
233 Hunt, Gaillard 1910 Writings of James Madison (Vol. IX, Page
65, The
234 Marcus, Maeva 1985 Documentary History of the Supreme Court of
the U.S. 1789-1800
Volume 1, Part 1 and 2 Appointments and Proceedings, The
235 Marcus, Maeva 1988 Documentary History of the Supreme Court of
the U.S. 1789-1800 Volume 2
The Justices on the Circuit, The
236 Marcus, Maeva 1992 Documentary History of the Supreme Court of
the U.S. 1789-1800 Volume 4
Organizing the Federal Judiciary: Legislation and Commentaries, The
237 Macedo, Stephen 1986 New Right v. The Constitution, The
238 Eidsmoe, John 1986 Classrooms in Crisis Parents' Rights and
the public school
239 Monsma, Stephen V. 1996 When Sacred and Secular Mix
Religious Nonprofit Organizations and Public
Money
240 McDonald, Forrest 1985 Novus Ordo Seclorum The
Intellectual Origins of the Constitution
241 Bradford, M.E. Original Intentions on the making and
ratification of the U.S. Constitution
242 Morris, Richard B. 1985 Witness at the creation Hamilton,
Madison, Jay and the Constitution
243 Bachmann, Steven 1984 US Constitution for beginners
244 Lundberg, Ferdinand 1980 Cracks in the Constitution
245 Eastland, Terry 1993 Religious liberty in the Supreme Court The
cases that define the debate over
church and state
246 Howe, Mark De Wolfe 1952 Cases on Church and State in the
U.S.
247 Drakeman, Donald L. 1991 Church-State Constitutional Issues
Making Sense of the Establishment Clause
248 Meister, Charles W. 1987 Founding Fathers, The
249 Eidsmoe, John 1984 God and Caesar
250 Eidsmoe, John 1984 Christian Legal Advisor, The
251 Johnson, Alvin 1948 Separation of Church and State in the
United States
252 Levy, Leonard Encyclopedia of the American Constitution
253 Kukla, Jon 1987 Bill of Rights: A Lively Heritage, The
254 Howard, A.E. ***** Commentaries on the Constitution of
Virginia
255 Vile, John R. 1996 Encyclopedia of Constitutional Amendments,
Proposed Amendments, and
Amending Issues, 1789-1995
256 Ames, Seth 1854 Works of Fisher Ames with a collection from
his speeches
257 Wellington, Harry 1990 Interpreting the Constitution The
Supreme Court and the process of adjudication
258 Ames, Fisher 1809 Works of Fisher Ames notices of his life
and character
259 Countryman, Vern Douglas Opinions, The
260 Blakely, William Addison 1911 American State Papers
bearing on Sunday legislation
261 Kelly, Alfred & Harbison, Winfred 1976 American
Constitution Its origins and development, fifth edition, The
262 Stokes, Anson Phelps Church & State in the United
States, Vol I
263 Stokes, Anson Phelps Church & State in the United
States, Vol II
264 Stokes, Anson Phelps Church & State in the United
States, Vol III
264a Stokes, Anson Phelps Index for Church & State in the
United States, Vols I, II & III
265 Stokes, Anson Phelps, & Pfeffer, Leo Church & State in
the United States
266 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol I
267 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol II
268 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol III
269 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol VI
270 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol V
271 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol VI
272 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol IX
273 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol X
274 Depauw, Linda Grant Documentary History of the First
Federal Congress of the USA Vol XI
275 Pierce, Truman M. Federal, State and Local Government
in Education
276 Lee, Gordon Canfield Struggle for Federal Aid, First
Phase 1870-1890 A history of the attempts to
obtain federal aid for common schools
277 Syrett, Harold C. Papers of Alexander Hamilton Vol
VIII, Feb 1791 - July 1791
278 Lodge, Henry Cabot American Statesman Alexander
Hamilton
279 Lodge, Henry Cabot Works of Alexander Hamilton
280 Riedel, Bunnie Faith & Freedom
281 Lutz, Donald S. Origins of American constitutionalism
282 Thornton, John Wingate Pulpit of American Revolution
283 Story, Joseph Miscellaneous writings
284 Wells, H.G. Outline of History
285 Kurland, Philip Founders Constitution Preamble through
Article I, Section 8, Clause 4, Vol II
286 Levy, Leonard Encyclopedia of the American Constitution
287 1850 Virginia Report of 1799-1800 The; Alien & Sedition
Laws
288 Sparks, Jared 1832 Life of Gouverneur Morris The; Vol. I
289 Sparks, Jared 1832 Life of Gouverneur Morris The; Vol.II
290 Sparks, Jared 1832 Life of Gouverneur Morris The, Vol III
291 Rhodehamel, John H. 1988 Letters of Liberty, A Documentary
History of the U.S. Constitution
292 Sparks, Jared 1853 Correspondence of the American Revolution
to George Washington
293 Basler, Roy P. Collected Works of A. Lincoln The; INDEX
294 Story, William W. 1851 Life and Letters of Joseph Story,
Vol II
295 Brown. Ira. V. 1962 Joseph Priestley, Selections from His
Writings
296 Peck, Robert S. 1987 We the People, The Constitution in American
Life
297 Irons, Peter 1993 May it Please the Court
298 McBrien, Richard P. 1987 Caesar's Coin, Religion and
Politics in America
299 Rutt, John Towill Theological and Misc Works of John
Priestley, (1733-1787) Vol 23
300 Kent, James 1840 Commentaries on American Law, Vol I, 4th
Edition
301 Lipscomb, Andrew A. 1903 Writings of Thomas Jefferson The;
Library Edition, Vol XV
302 1897 Compilation of the Messages and Papers of the
Presidents, Vol I
303 Gavit, Bernard C. 1892 Blackstone's Commentaries on the
Law
304 Syrett, Harold C. 1987 Papers of Alexander Hamilton, The;
Vol XXVII
305 Lipscomb, Andrew A. 1903 Writings of Thomas Jefferson, The;
Library Edition, Vol XVII
306 Lipscomb, Andrew A. 1903 Writings of Thomas Jefferson, The;
Library Edition, Vol XIII
307 Lipscomb, Andrew A. 1903 Writings of Thomas Jefferson, The;
Library Edition, Vol XII
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