| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Andrew" |
| Date: |
12 Mar 2007 04:09:28 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Defeat of Evolution |
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible
occasionally and see the real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super
intelligent and all powerful Creator.
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
"For the invisible things of Him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
But it is not from the stars, the galaxies or
the beautiful earth that we can learn of the
character and personality of God as clearly
as it is revealed in Jesus Christ, the Son of
the Most High God.
Andrew
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 05:51:34 PM |
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"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not*
to?
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
But it is not from the stars, the galaxies or the beautiful earth that we
can learn of the character and personality of God as clearly
as it is revealed in Jesus Christ, the Son of
the Most High God.
We know so little 'real' information about the so-called 'historical' Jesus
that it's almost laughable. Have you ever read Albert Schweitzer's 'The
Quest for the Historical Jesus? And yet we get people like the Jehovah
Witnesses claiming that Jesus was the 'greatest man who *ever* lived'! Based
on *what*? That he was crucified by the Romans like countless others? Or
that he espoused some very noble ideas -- but which have been uttered by
others in only slightly different form? Is *that* what makes him, 'The
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived'?
C'mon Andrew. All you're espousing is 'pie in the sky' stuff. Where's that
proof that what you're 'tootin' is true?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 06:34:57 PM |
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message
news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all
powerful Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not*
to?
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women
with the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a
relatively obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in
'Heaven' while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing
torture, crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides*
being the same supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself
through supernatatural sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless,
remained a 'virgin' throughout the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there? Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was *not* the result of a number of deities
working together collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a
collection of three separate entities who act independently of each other,
occupy different regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team'
rather than a singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true'
God. But the theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to
*three* independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies
with no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't
it? Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from
dying -- sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also
*impossible* for him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to
mankind in a way that few on planet earth could *possibly* deny he exists,
isn't it?
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he,
indeed, had arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
But it is not from the stars, the galaxies or the beautiful earth that we
can learn of the character and personality of God as clearly
as it is revealed in Jesus Christ, the Son of
the Most High God.
Note the word 'Son'. He is the *offspring* of a 'God' here, isn't he? How
could both a 'Father' and a 'Son', intellectually speaking, be the very same
creature. That's just unitelligible, unproven, 'gobbledegook', you know.
We know so little 'real' information about the so-called 'historical'
Jesus that it's almost laughable. Have you ever read Albert Schweitzer's
'The Quest for the Historical Jesus? And yet we get people like the
Jehovah Witnesses claiming that Jesus was the 'greatest man who *ever*
lived'! Based on *what*? That he was crucified by the Romans like
countless others? Or that he espoused some very noble ideas -- but which
have been uttered by others in only slightly different form? Is *that*
what makes him, 'The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived'?
C'mon Andrew. All you're espousing is 'pie in the sky' stuff. Where's that
proof that what you're 'tootin' is true?
Greywolf
Slightly revised and 'corrected' in spots. Sorry.
.
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 11:01:02 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:34:57 -0500, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
Note the word 'Son'. He is the *offspring* of a 'God' here, isn't he? How
could both a 'Father' and a 'Son', intellectually speaking, be the very same
creature. That's just unitelligible, unproven, 'gobbledegook', you know.
<SNIP>
Sounds like defective transporter technology to me. :-)
Ben
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| User: "Andrew" |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 08:30:52 PM |
|
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message news:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in relation
to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for you.
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen
Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 11:34:16 PM |
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"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:g9nJh.126782$_73.48716@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message
news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all
powerful Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not*
to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Not very 'wonderful' of imaginary, non-existent 'Him', was it? And he gave
us 'free-will' for *what* purpose? So that we could choose to be
supernaturally coerced by a supernaturally evil creature of 'God's' to 'sin'
and thereby suffer spending an eternity in unspeakable suffering and torment
for the 'thrill' of having the ability to 'sin'? And with the
*foreknowledge* that the vast majority of people who have ever lived will
fall short and 'sin'; *that's* considered an act of a 'loving',
supernaturally 'intelligent' deity? What the hell? He knew beforehand that
the so-called 'tree of knowledge' would turn into a lethal weapon ending
with the death of Adam and Eve and their offspring. What a malevolent
creature this 'God' of yours is! Why not a simple 'I forgive you' after the
two 'stumbled' a bit in the 'garden'? Why no mercy from an infinitely
'loving' God? Why no 'second chance'? They were, after all, supernaturally
beguiled -- and unfairly so -- by a supremely gifted creature of evil that
'God' failed to keep 'chained up' and away from his 'children'. Should not
have 'God' been chastized for being negligent 'parnet' and a poor supervisor
of his children? Why punish the victims and their yet unborn offspring?
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
Man did not create evil, 'God' did, according to your religion. No one put a
supernatural 'gun' to 'God's' supernatural 'head' and forced him to create
evil and then infect his creation with it.
He malevolenty introduced evil into existence -- and even created a
supremely evil supernatural evil creature and let him run rough-shod all
over a virtually defenseless mankind! Or did 'Man' do that?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women
with the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a
relatively obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne
in 'Heaven' while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing
torture, crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides*
being the same supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself
through supernatatural sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless,
remained a 'virgin' throughout the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong
belief in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see
unassailable evidence that the universe was the result of any number of
deities working collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a
collection of three separate entities who act independently of each
other, occupy different regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a
'team' rather than a singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE
'true' God. But the theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church'
points to *three* independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies
with no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents,
doesn't it? Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies
from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in
relation to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason
to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for
you.
What 'plan'? You act as if you and 'God' go over some sort of 'schedule' of
his over lunch every other Tuesday. Now face up. You're making up half the
stuff. 'The truth of his existence', Andrew? And one can find proof of that
.... where?
And look at the 'offer' being presented: Have 'salvation' and eternal life'
by having 'faith' in him, but damnation and unspeakable agony, anguish, and
torment if you take a 'pass' on the 'deal'. Why can't the atheist, agnostic,
or member of some other faith simply die and disappear into oblivion? What's
wrong with that? Why does this 'Love God' of yours have to *punish* someone
who doesn't believe he exists? Is he *that* thin-skinned and vain? *Must* he
torture individuals for all of eternity because *he* failed to provide
enough convincing proof that he exists? What a piece of supernatural crap!
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible*
for him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a
way that few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't
it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Oh puhleeeeeze! C'mon. That whole story is so preposterous that you have to
put your brain on 'hold' just to be able to take it in. It just *reeks* of
the absurd! The events described are quite implausible. How is it, for
example, that the apostles run like scared little bunny-rabbits at the
arrest of their Master -- *after* witnessing the 'miracles' he performed --
with their own eyes; and are even said to have been endowed by said Master
to raise people from the dead *themselves*. Yet when the women return from
the empty tomb and report they had seen and talked to the 'risen' Christ,
the apostles find their stories absolutely ridiculous and think them 'nuts'!
Now how do you square all this?
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have
believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
You didn't answer the question.
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great offer of
salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
No thanks. I will *not* prostitute my intellect, my logic, my reason, for a
cheap suit that's coming apart at the seams. Andrew, the whole Jesus/God
'thing' is a hoax. It's the greatest 'hoax' ever perpetrated by man
*against* mankind. It is the product of a self-serving clergy who have no
honesty, integrity, or shame. It is a pack of lies. Think about this,
Andrew. If there *were* a 'God' we wouldn't even be having this discussion
because I would be too busy asking him a *whole* lot of questions. He's not
real, Andrew. Not real at all. He lives only inside your the recesses of
your imagination and the imagination of others. And at *some* point in time,
he'll disappear just like Zeus did and be replaced by a 'new' God (or
'Gods') -- just with a different 'name', is all.
But cling to your 'God' if you must; if that's what keeps your head above
'water' in this cesspool we call life, go for it.
As for me, I hope to 'depart' this world -- and soon. I just don't belong.
This world is much too unhappy a place for me. I will just have to take
satisfaction in the fact that I held fast in the face of utterly
overwhelming opposition. I will go out a proud atheist. A fine *moral*
atheist who honestly respected the Christian of good conscience and his or
her concern for his fellow man -- of whom there are many. You can't do much
better than that in my book.
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Sanitys Little Helper" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 04:49:36 AM |
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Andrew tripped gaily down the garden path, and yelled:
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message news:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in relation
to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for you.
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen
Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
Your response relies on Bible quotes. You lose.
--
David Silverman AA#2208
To err is human, humans wrote the Bible, so guess what...
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| User: "Phlogeus" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 03:20:40 PM |
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In article <g9nJh.126782$_73.48716@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote:
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
What effing offer
All you have offered is POETRY
And bad poetry to boot
The great question is whether you are deluded , mentally ill or just stupid
Even if there is a God then this rubbish is dysfunctional
Can't YOU see that
You are having yourself on after being "had on" by someone else!
And so the insanity continues
And the Right wing military Junta stays in power
And the kids die overseas
But you don't care about that
do you?
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 10:20:27 PM |
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On Mar 12, 8:30 pm, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
"Greywolf" <greyw...@cybrzn.com> wrote in messagenews:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in messagenews:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
By the same token, why do xians thank "god" for the things we do
ourselves?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in relation
to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for you.
We *do* understand a lot of what's going on in our world. Introducing
a "god" concept complicates matters more than necessary. And we don't
need "redemption". I reject that very notion on moral basis. Teaching
"original sin" to kids is child abuse.
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Never happened :
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
Olrik
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen
Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
.
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 04:25:54 AM |
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|
On Mar 13, 1:30 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
"Greywolf" <greyw...@cybrzn.com> wrote in messagenews:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in messagenews:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in relation
to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for you.
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen
Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
Don't ***** in our ears and tell us it's raining.
.
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 03:55:49 AM |
|
|
On Mar 13, 1:30 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
"Greywolf" <greyw...@cybrzn.com> wrote in messagenews:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in messagenews:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
What is so 'super intelligent' about a deity who created men and women with
the intellect to reject outright the preposterous notion that a relatively
obscure 1st-century Jew was both a 'God' sitting on a throne in 'Heaven'
while simultaneously being the same divine entity undergoing torture,
crucifixion, and *death* here on earth? And that's *besides* being the same
supernatural entity that 'fathered' a part of himself through supernatatural
sex with a mortal female who, nevertheless, remained a 'virgin' throughout
the process!
Andrew. Did you imbibe a little too much 'Jesus Juice' this morning,
perchance?
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
No it doesn't. If it did, there never would have arisen such strong belief
in a plurality of 'Gods', would there. Where do you see unassailable
evidence that the universe was the result of any number of deities working
collectively? Even the 'triune' God is *really* a collection of three
separate entities who act independently of each other, occupy different
regions of 'space' from each other, and work as a 'team' rather than a
singular being. Oh, you can *say* they're all ONE 'true' God. But the
theological 'evidence' presented by the 'Church' points to *three*
independent entities -- not just one. Sorry.
"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
Those 'invisible things' includes super-deadly viruses that kill babies with
no regard as to the 'faith' (or lack thereof) of the parents, doesn't it?
Your 'all-powerful' God is incapable of preventing babies from dying --
The fact that you don't understand what's going on in our world in relation
to the eternal plan of God's redemption for us would be no reason to reject
the truth of His existence and His offer of salvation and eternal life for you.
sometimes in utterly horrific ways -- isn't he? It's also *impossible* for
him to step out of the 'shadows' and reveal himself to mankind in a way that
few on planet earth could *possibly* deny his existence, isn't it?
Yet He ~HAS~ done so in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!
Would 'Doubting Thomas' have been consigned to the eternal flames of Hell
had not Jesus appeared to him in the flesh and convinced him that he had
arose from the dead? Hmmmm, Andrew?
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen
Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
So, the real question is whether "Greywolf" will accept the great
offer of salvation and eternal life through Christ Jesus the Savior.
Andrew
No, the real question is whether or not Andrew will accept that he
doesn't have a leg to stand on.I already pointed out why further up
this thread. If you don't understand the response, Andrew, just admit
you are too stupid to venture an opinion about anything.
(Crossposting trimmed to 5)
.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 04:54:16 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 01:30:52 GMT, "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net>
wrote:
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
ISA 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
It matters not one iota, how you wriggle. By your own preaching; If it
exists, then goddidit.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
13 Mar 2007 11:11:56 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 02:30:52 +0000, Andrew wrote:
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message news:12vbmehg5dt9423@corp.supernews.com...
"Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ckjJh.126713$_73.57555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible occasionally and see the
real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super intelligent and all powerful
Creator.
'Wonderful', Andrew? What is so 'wonderful' about a deity who consciously
and malevolently chose to create 'evil' when he had the 'free-will' *not* to?
In a sense He is responsible for evil since He gave *free choice* or
*free will* to His created intelligences - humans and angelic beings.
Who or what could *possibly* be more 'evil' than the creator of evil?
Why do you blame Him for the things that we do ourselves?
Product liability.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Evolution |
12 Mar 2007 04:16:29 PM |
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Andrew wrote:
"Ralph" wrote in message news:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible
occasionally and see the real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super
intelligent and all powerful Creator.
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
"For the invisible things of Him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made..so
that they are without excuse." Romans 1:20
But it is not from the stars, the galaxies or
the beautiful earth that we can learn of the
character and personality of God as clearly
as it is revealed in Jesus Christ, the Son of
the Most High God.
Andrew
***** and die, trolling little *****.
Do I make myself clear?
--
Lucifer the Unsubtle, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil
and General Purpose Igor
The Anti-Theist, BAAWA Lowly Evilmeister and tamer of the Demon Duck
of Doom
Convicted by Earthquack
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
.
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Defeat of Andrew |
13 Mar 2007 06:17:17 PM |
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Andrew, didn't I talk to you about starting fundamentally idiotic
threads on Usenet? What is *wrong* with you? When will you learn?
Look at this ignorant trash:
On Mar 12, 3:09 pm, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
"Ralph" wrote in messagenews:SH3Hh.2713$m7.2144@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Andrew" wrote:
"Ralph" wrote:
You should take your nose out of your bible
occasionally and see the real world for a change.
The real world points to a wonderful, super
intelligent and all powerful Creator.
And you have evidence that a creator was involved?
The evidence clearly points to a wonderful,
super intelligent and all powerful -- Creator.
What evidence, Andrew? Haven't I asked you for the evidence before?
Didn't you *run away* without offering a shred of it? Now you're on
the carpet again. Let's see this evidence. Let's see it right here
in this thread. Can you provide it?
Failing that (as I'm sure you are), can you provide some sort of
rationale for your claim that doesn't involve quoting meaningless
excerpts from the Bible?
Provide your best evidence and rationale right here and I'll show you
where you're appallingly wrong, okay? That's the best I can do for
you if you insist on being this irremediably stupid.
[Rest flushed where it belongs]
Budikka
.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
15 Mar 2007 05:48:51 PM |
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"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1173827837.755327.46220@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Failing that (as I'm sure you are), can you provide some sort of
rationale for your claim that doesn't involve quoting meaningless
excerpts from the Bible?
As I said before: Regarding the "hand" of God in all this discussion, just a
simple question: how did the initial energy/matter originate? Energy/matter
cannot be naturally created or destroyed, according to the laws of physics.
Do you have a strictly scientific answer for this? If not, then the God
solution seems quite plausible.
EW
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
16 Mar 2007 06:16:45 PM |
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On 15 Mar., 23:48, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1173827837.755327.46220@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Failing that (as I'm sure you are), can you provide some sort of
rationale for your claim that doesn't involve quoting meaningless
excerpts from the Bible?
As I said before: Regarding the "hand" of God in all this discussion, just a
simple question: how did the initial energy/matter originate? Energy/matter
cannot be naturally created or destroyed, according to the laws of physics.
Do you have a strictly scientific answer for this? If not, then the God
solution seems quite plausible.
As I said before: Where did god come from?
.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
15 Mar 2007 09:55:38 PM |
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On Mar 15, 5:48 pm, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote in message
Failing that (as I'm sure you are), can you provide some sort of
rationale for your claim that doesn't involve quoting meaningless
excerpts from the Bible?
As I said before: Regarding the "hand" of God in all this discussion, just a
simple question: how did the initial energy/matter originate? Energy/matter
cannot be naturally created or destroyed, according to the laws of physics.
Do you have a strictly scientific answer for this? If not, then the God
solution seems quite plausible.
God isn't a solution -- it is a cop-out. Saying "God created the
universe" is no more a valid solution to origins of space and time
than "God is crying" is to a child's question about the rain. It says
nothing about what actually happens; it is merely a word that allows
the ignorant to pretend to know more than the educated.
.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
16 Mar 2007 04:37:28 PM |
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"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174013737.980867.144590@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
God isn't a solution -- it is a cop-out. Saying "God created the
universe" is no more a valid solution to origins of space and time
than "God is crying" is to a child's question about the rain. It says
nothing about what actually happens; it is merely a word that allows
the ignorant to pretend to know more than the educated.
Fine. However, why don't YOU answer my original question about the origins
of matter and energy. Belief in God may be a cop-out, as you say, but
what's your alternative explanation. Your answer above says nothing to
address the issue. Go for it.
EW
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
16 Mar 2007 06:18:28 PM |
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On 16 Mar., 22:37, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effig...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174013737.980867.144590@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
God isn't a solution -- it is a cop-out. Saying "God created the
universe" is no more a valid solution to origins of space and time
than "God is crying" is to a child's question about the rain. It says
nothing about what actually happens; it is merely a word that allows
the ignorant to pretend to know more than the educated.
Fine. However, why don't YOU answer my original question about the origins
of matter and energy. Belief in God may be a cop-out, as you say, but
what's your alternative explanation. Your answer above says nothing to
address the issue. Go for it.
You have not explained where god came from. Go for it.
.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
17 Mar 2007 04:51:34 PM |
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"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174087108.158292.33530@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You have not explained where god came from. Go for it.
I asked you first!! ;-))
EW
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
17 Mar 2007 05:53:09 PM |
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On 17 Mar., 22:51, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174087108.158292.33530@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You have not explained where god came from. Go for it.
I asked you first!! ;-))
The point of your question (that everything had to have an origin)
destroys your implied solution (god did it). Understand? Good; I
accept your concession.
.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
18 Mar 2007 03:40:04 PM |
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"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174171989.635018.168050@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The point of your question (that everything had to have an origin)
destroys your implied solution (god did it). Understand? Good; I
accept your concession.
Wrongo. I said that matter/energy must have been created by some higher
power, since it could not have been created on its own using universal laws
of physics. I'm just asking whether you agree, and if not, to provide some
other explanation.
EW
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
17 Mar 2007 07:45:17 PM |
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:37:28 -0600, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del_me@excite.com> wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174013737.980867.144590@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
God isn't a solution -- it is a cop-out. Saying "God created the
universe" is no more a valid solution to origins of space and time
than "God is crying" is to a child's question about the rain. It says
nothing about what actually happens; it is merely a word that allows
the ignorant to pretend to know more than the educated.
Fine. However, why don't YOU answer my original question about the origins
of matter and energy. Belief in God may be a cop-out, as you say, but
what's your alternative explanation. Your answer above says nothing to
address the issue. Go for it.
EW
How about, we just don't know yet?
Ben
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
16 Mar 2007 10:59:33 PM |
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|
On Mar 16, 4:37 pm, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effig...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174013737.980867.144590@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
God isn't a solution -- it is a cop-out. Saying "God created the
universe" is no more a valid solution to origins of space and time
than "God is crying" is to a child's question about the rain. It says
nothing about what actually happens; it is merely a word that allows
the ignorant to pretend to know more than the educated.
Fine. However, why don't YOU answer my original question about the origins
of matter and energy. Belief in God may be a cop-out, as you say, but
what's your alternative explanation. Your answer above says nothing to
address the issue. Go for it.
The honest answer is that we don't know.
Saying that God did something is completely uninformative and useless.
It answers no questions, but allows them all to be waved away with
such glib sayings as "God works in mysterious ways" or "For those that
believe, no explanation is necessary; for those that do not, no
explanation is possible".
I am content that I do not know everything. I even grant that much of
what I know may be wrong. I feel no need to supplement my knowledge
with false certainties and beliefs. When we explain things with gods,
we trade knowledge for fairy tales.
.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
17 Mar 2007 04:50:34 PM |
|
|
"Chris Johnson" <effigies@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174103973.473390.322780@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
The honest answer is that we don't know.
Saying that God did something is completely uninformative and useless.
It answers no questions, but allows them all to be waved away with
such glib sayings as "God works in mysterious ways" or "For those that
believe, no explanation is necessary; for those that do not, no
explanation is possible".
Believe it or not, I agree. I'm not a religious nut, but I feel that the
religious types have as much to say about the creation of the universe, and
evolution as anyone else. You don't know about the original creation of
matter/energy -- fine. I don't either. But the God-types have an answer
they believe is correct, right or wrong. So unless you can prove
otherwise -- that God does not exist -- their assumptions are as good as
yours, right?
Actually, I think all these discussions about creation is pointless, since
no one can really PROVE anything, yet. Evolution is another matter
though -- it's a fact, but that still does not negate the question of the
original matter, and that God hand his hand in the pot.
Anyway...................
EW
.
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| User: "thomas p." |
|
| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
17 Mar 2007 05:46:49 PM |
|
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On 17 Mar., 22:50, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"Chris Johnson" <effig...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174103973.473390.322780@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
The honest answer is that we don't know.
Saying that God did something is completely uninformative and useless.
It answers no questions, but allows them all to be waved away with
such glib sayings as "God works in mysterious ways" or "For those that
believe, no explanation is necessary; for those that do not, no
explanation is possible".
Believe it or not, I agree. I'm not a religious nut, but I feel that the
religious types have as much to say about the creation of the universe, and
evolution as anyone else. You don't know about the original creation of
matter/energy -- fine. I don't either. But the God-types have an answer
they believe is correct, right or wrong. So unless you can prove
otherwise -- that God does not exist -- their assumptions are as good as
yours, right?
No, without evidence there is no reason to assume a creation; and,
without evidence "I don't know" is, by far the better answer.
Actually, I think all these discussions about creation is pointless, since
no one can really PROVE anything, yet. Evolution is another matter
though -- it's a fact, but that still does not negate the question of the
original matter, and that God hand his hand in the pot.
Anyway...................
Since there is no evidence of "original matter", a creation or a god,
why assume any of them?
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| User: "LoneStar" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
18 Mar 2007 03:45:37 PM |
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"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174171609.579675.92310@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Since there is no evidence of "original matter", a creation or a god,
why assume any of them?
Of course there must have been original matter, from where all this came.
By that I mean (logically) that at some point there was no matter/energy,
since matter existing from an infinite past is highly suspicious. Then at
some point there was. I'm not pushing God as an answer, I'm just pointing
out that "something" must have happened to kick-start what we have now.
No worries. We can drop this since neither of us has an answer.
EW
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
19 Mar 2007 02:53:03 PM |
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On 18 Mar., 21:45, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174171609.579675.92310@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Since there is no evidence of "original matter", a creation or a god,
why assume any of them?
Of course there must have been original matter, from where all this came.
By that I mean (logically) that at some point there was no matter/energy,
since matter existing from an infinite past is highly suspicious.
Which destroys the logic of god as a solution doesn't it?
Then at
some point there was. I'm not pushing God as an answer, I'm just pointing
out that "something" must have happened to kick-start what we have now.
No worries. We can drop this since neither of us has an answer.
You are, however, the one who is suggesting an answer. I have tried
to point out to you that your answer is illogical. If everything had
to have an origin, any origin suggested would have to have an
origin. If it is logical to suppose that a god has no beginning,
lacking any evidence to the contrary, it is equally logical to suppose
that there was no original matter/energy.
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| User: "LoneStar" |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
20 Mar 2007 05:54:01 PM |
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"thomas p." <tonyofbexar@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174333983.444814.127280@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You are, however, the one who is suggesting an answer. I have tried
to point out to you that your answer is illogical. If everything had
to have an origin, any origin suggested would have to have an
origin. If it is logical to suppose that a god has no beginning,
lacking any evidence to the contrary, it is equally logical to suppose
that there was no original matter/energy.
Your logic has a flaw, if one considers the necessary supernatural nature of
God. The logic I understand is that matter must have been created at some
"point" or there wouldn't be any now. That creation must logically have
been accomplished by one that transcends his creation, a higher power, which
does not abide by the laws you ascribe to. Because matter must have had a
beginning does not mean that the higher power had to -- there's your flaw.
Of course, my flaw is that I have no proof!
EW
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Defeat of Andrew |
20 Mar 2007 06:04:45 PM |
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On 20 Mar., 23:54, "LoneStar" <ewyatt_del...@excite.com> wrote:
"thomas p." <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
news:1174333983.444814.127280@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You are, however, the one who is suggesting an answer. I have tried
to point out to you that your answer is illogical. If everything had
to have an origin, any origin suggested would have to have an
origin. If it is logical to suppose that a god has no beginning,
lacking any evidence to the contrary, it is equally logical to suppose
that there was no original matter/energy.
Your logic has a flaw, if one considers the necessary supernatural nature of
God. The logic I understand is that matter must have been created at some
"point" or there wouldn't be any now. That creation must logically have
been accomplished by one that transcends his creation, a higher power, which
does not abide by the laws you ascribe to. Because matter must have had a
beginning does not mean that the higher power had to -- there's your flaw.
Of course, my flaw is that I have no proof!
No, your flaw is special pleading and assuming your conclusion.
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