| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"bob young" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2004 09:55:07 PM |
| Object: |
Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could he have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man" "Jesus" truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own way your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never wrote of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he wrote and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus. None....
....Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star. Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next twenty years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
--
#1636
Not BAAWA
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
31 Mar 2004 11:56:47 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could he have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man" "Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own way your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never wrote of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he wrote and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus. None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star. Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
.
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| User: "bob young" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 06:49:11 AM |
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Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could he have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man" "Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own way your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never wrote of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he wrote and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus. None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star. Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
My point is the Jesus myth was promulgated but they omitted to cover his first
20 years, nothing is recorded about this period, which speaks volumes. What is
your opinion on this point. I think I dare ask you this!
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 09:30:55 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406C0E4F.9BD3E21E@netvigator.com...
Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could he
have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man"
"Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching
your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own way
your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never wrote
of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he wrote
and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The
point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus. None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star.
Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
My point is the Jesus myth was promulgated but they omitted to cover his
first
20 years, nothing is recorded about this period, which speaks volumes.
What is
your opinion on this point. I think I dare ask you this!
It seems you have your mind made up and believe there's something to hide.
Who am I to speculate?
There could be myriad reasons the first 20yrs of his life isn't documented.
The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
The End!
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 10:40:05 AM |
|
|
"Wyle Coyote" <tare@org.ae> wrote in
news:PAWac.11122$lt2.5238@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406C0E4F.9BD3E21E@netvigator.com...
Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com>
wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could
he
have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of
man"
"Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on
preaching
your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own
way
your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept
certain authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse
Tung never wrote
of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he
wrote
and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted.
The
point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus.
None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star.
Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next
twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
My point is the Jesus myth was promulgated but they omitted to cover
his
first
20 years, nothing is recorded about this period, which speaks
volumes.
What is
your opinion on this point. I think I dare ask you this!
It seems you have your mind made up and believe there's something to
hide. Who am I to speculate?
There could be myriad reasons the first 20yrs of his life isn't
documented. The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
The End!
There are early Christian writings that cover his childhood, they just
weren't included in the Bible because they contradict the other Gospels.
"The Infancy Gospel of Thomas" is quite entertaining.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 12:33:09 PM |
|
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BE76B39745Efstone69@207.69.154.203...
There are early Christian writings that cover his childhood, they just
weren't included in the Bible because they contradict the other Gospels.
"The Infancy Gospel of Thomas" is quite entertaining.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html
This supports the idea I had that if he really was born human then he would
have behaved in the fashion of all small children, totally self centered and
without discipline.
The gospel reads like some of the sci-fi written but for a real chill there
is a story about a baby born with intelligence that kills it's mother and
father. The doctor thinks it's not true until the baby gets caught when the
wind blows a door shut.
Heinlein or Bradbury sometime in the 40's probably.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 02:07:03 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mdotpainter@att.net> wrote in
news:FfZac.9163$vo5.280792@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BE76B39745Efstone69@207.69.154.203...
There are early Christian writings that cover his childhood, they
just weren't included in the Bible because they contradict the other
Gospels.
"The Infancy Gospel of Thomas" is quite entertaining.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-
mrjames.htm
l
This supports the idea I had that if he really was born human then he
would have behaved in the fashion of all small children, totally self
centered and without discipline.
The gospel reads like some of the sci-fi written but for a real chill
there is a story about a baby born with intelligence that kills it's
mother and father. The doctor thinks it's not true until the baby gets
caught when the wind blows a door shut.
Heinlein or Bradbury sometime in the 40's probably.
That rings a bell but I can't place it. Silverberg?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 03:42:32 PM |
|
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BE99CB9BBB5fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Mike Painter" <mdotpainter@att.net> wrote in
news:FfZac.9163$vo5.280792@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BE76B39745Efstone69@207.69.154.203...
There are early Christian writings that cover his childhood, they
just weren't included in the Bible because they contradict the other
Gospels.
"The Infancy Gospel of Thomas" is quite entertaining.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-
mrjames.htm
l
This supports the idea I had that if he really was born human then he
would have behaved in the fashion of all small children, totally self
centered and without discipline.
The gospel reads like some of the sci-fi written but for a real chill
there is a story about a baby born with intelligence that kills it's
mother and father. The doctor thinks it's not true until the baby gets
caught when the wind blows a door shut.
Heinlein or Bradbury sometime in the 40's probably.
That rings a bell but I can't place it. Silverberg?
Bradbury, "The Small Assassin".
.
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| User: "Newton Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 08:49:47 PM |
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The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
THE SEDUCTION OF A VIRGIN NAMED MARY
By New 10.
All Christians subscribe to the notion that the Holy Ghost knocked up the
Virgin Mary. This brings to mind all kinds of questions that a reasonable
person might ask. Who was Mary's gynecologist who broke the rule of
confidentiality and told the world that Mary was a virgin? Another question
that comes to mind, did the Virgin Mary want to be pregnant, did she ask the
Holy Ghost to lie with her? And how about Joseph, how does feel about being
cuckold by a Holy Ghost? Did the virgin named Mary concoct this story of
being knocked up by a Holy Ghost to escape criticism of being with child by
another then with poor Joseph? Wasn't Mary in reality committing adultery
with the ghost that was not so holy?
Doesn't her thinly veiled excuse of adultery with a Ghost raise
questions that a good Christian might ask? How does a ghost described in my
dictionary as; a disembodied soul, a faint shadowy trace. How did this Holy
Ghost impregnate little Virgin Mary? Did the ghost have a penis? If the Holy
Ghost is incorporeal, how was "he" able to pull this pregnancy off?
If the Holy Ghost was incorporeal, I assume Mary did not derive any
pleasure from this union. Just like a chauvinistic pig, the Holy Ghost
wasn't concerned if Mary had an orgasm. From what I understand about this
Holy Ghost affair, the Holy Ghost did have an orgasm ( I might be old
fashion but I think that what it takes to knock up a virgin) And of course
Mary being just a simple peasant girl felt she had to give in to the Holy
Ghosts advances and smothering kisses.
Another question that comes to mind, if the Holy Ghost was
incorporeal how did Mary know who knocked her up? Another question that come
to mind, who was taking notes on all that was going on between the Holy
Ghost and the Virgin Mary?
Did Mary contrive this story to deceive poor Joseph who does not
appear to be too bright? Was this tryst a one-time fling or has it been
going on for some time? Was this the same Holy Ghost that has been knocking
up virgins to give birth to divine, Godchildren we read about in older
civilizations? (What a sly devil he is) Can you imagine the delight of the
Holy Ghost in seducing some of the most beautiful women who were the wives
and sisters of kings.
Is it possible that Mary had this adulterous affair because
Joseph was a lousy lover? We know that the Holy Ghost did not wear a condom,
is this why Catholic Church forbids the use of condoms because of the Holy
Ghost? Do you suppose this naïve virgin did not know how babies are made? Or
did the Holy Ghost lull the Virgin Mary into a false sense of security by
telling her he had a vasectomy? Is it possible the Holy Ghost promised
marriage if she divorce Joseph? Or did the Holy Ghost take advantage of the
Virgin named Mary that he just wanted to put it in just a little bit? Did
the Holy Ghost tell Mary she couldn't become pregnant if he put it in a tiny
bit? Another question that comes to mind was there any foreplay to arouse
the virgin named Mary or did he stick it in because the Holy Ghost wanted a
quick *****?
Did the Holy Ghost make up the story that the virgin named Mary
would be the mother of a God, just so he can seduce her? I am sure that the
idea of giving birth to a God by this simple peasant girl could bring her
fame and riches. I am almost certain that the whole story of the Immaculate
Conception was the Virgin Mary's story to hide her indiscretion because she
knew the town's people were a little dense. And history has shown the
simpletons of that period just accepted the story as they have for thousands
of years of fantastic and supernatural births just as they do today(nothing
has changed)
On the other side of the coin, is it possible that the virgin
named Mary was paranoid and convinced of the truth that she was a virgin
that gave birth to a God? After all, it is only the word of the virgin named
Mary isn't it? If Mary did not give consent to this adulteress affair would
it not seem evident that the Holy Ghost raped the virgin named Mary? Wasn't
she surprised according Christian literature she just woke up one morning
and discovered she was with child? There is no indication that the virgin
named Mary told her friends, family or neighbors that she wanted a child.
Did the Ghost that was holy take financial responsibility and obligations
that would occur if there were a child of his union with the virgin named
Mary?
It is evident the Holy Ghost was not a noble Ghost. The way the story is
told, it sounds as though the Holy Ghost just sneaked up on the virgin named
Mary one evening as she lie in bed.
One definition in my dictionary of a ghost or spirit is a supernatural being
or essence, spirit, and often malevolent being that is bodiless but can
become visible; a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being.
This description certainly sounds like the Holy Ghost is a rapist.
.
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| User: "myob" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 07:24:45 AM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:49:47 GMT, "Newton Joseph"
<drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote:
The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception
of Mary, not Jesus, and is not found in the bible. Other than that,
you've provided an amusing look at the absurdity of thinking that
the story of the virgin birth of Jesus has anything to do with the
biological conception of a child.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0.3
iQA/AwUBQG1pgoyN3XczK18FEQKO4wCgjMeTVXpx002hfRTX9vJsExAPIlkAoNKt
8pupc5ZzlQWiZF4S8HU1EHUc
=kZ82
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Snag my public key at http://www.i-will-not.com
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
01 Apr 2004 10:24:28 PM |
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Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406C0E4F.9BD3E21E@netvigator.com...
Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could he
have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man"
"Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching
your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own way
your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never wrote
of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he wrote
and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The
point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus. None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star.
Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
My point is the Jesus myth was promulgated but they omitted to cover his
first
20 years, nothing is recorded about this period, which speaks volumes.
What is
your opinion on this point. I think I dare ask you this!
It seems you have your mind made up and believe there's something to hide.
Who am I to speculate?
There could be myriad reasons the first 20yrs of his life isn't documented.
The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
The End!
If you write it off that easily i could be talking to a closed mond!
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
|
| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 12:08:28 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406CE9DA.B2C75FA7@netvigator.com...
Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406C0E4F.9BD3E21E@netvigator.com...
Wyle Coyote wrote:
x-no-archive:yes
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:406B91B9.E13A1E68@netvigator.com...
Ash wrote:
Starkiller© wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:05:57 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com>
wrote:
Josephus didn't live in Jesus' supposed lifetime so how could
he
have
"witnessed" any miracle? :-)
Why don't you quote Pilate's letters to prove the "son of man"
"Jesus"
truly
existed? Well, can you? :-)
Biff
The funny thing about this is you are more intent on preaching
your
own doctrine than those that you are ridiculing. In your own
way
your
are just as closed minded as any religious zealot.
You demand writings of contemporarys buty will only accept
certain
authors as being credible. I guess since Mao Tse Tung never
wrote
of
Lincoln we are to assume that Abraham Lincoln didn't exist?
No, but other people wrote of Lincoln while he was alive, he
wrote
and
signed documents that still exist, he had portraits painted. The
point
is there are no contemporary authors that referenced Jesus.
None....
...Hey - three wise men traveled from afar and followed a star.
Childlike
mythology if ever I heard it.
Assuming, by the .000001% of a chance it was true, for the next
twenty
years we
hear ..........NOTHING!
How dare you!
I could say the same of what you believe in 2000yrs.
My point is the Jesus myth was promulgated but they omitted to cover
his
first
20 years, nothing is recorded about this period, which speaks volumes.
What is
your opinion on this point. I think I dare ask you this!
It seems you have your mind made up and believe there's something to
hide.
Who am I to speculate?
There could be myriad reasons the first 20yrs of his life isn't
documented.
The bible says he was immaculately conceived.
The End!
If you write it off that easily i could be talking to a closed mond!
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
I do believe it. You don't know my spiritual journey or experience.
End of discussion.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 08:37:42 AM |
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In article <wr7bc.12161$lt2.9448@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Wyle Coyote
says...
snip
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
I do believe it. You don't know my spiritual journey or experience.
End of discussion.
If you only want to talk to people that believe the same crap you do, then why
the heck are you posting in alt.atheism?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 06:07:49 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:08:28 GMT, "Wyle Coyote" <tare@org.ae> wrote:
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
The typically nasty, personal lie by the typical Christian.
I do believe it. You don't know my spiritual journey or experience.
End of discussion.
.
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| User: "Wyle Coyote" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 10:50:00 PM |
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x-no-archive:yes
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:i9vr60d5qvpp7qlg9g2oclph9klba24e9l@4ax.com...
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:08:28 GMT, "Wyle Coyote" <tare@org.ae> wrote:
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
The typically nasty, personal lie by the typical Christian.
But of course Mr. Bob Young(the poster to which I replied) isn't nasty for
considering
me closed minded because of my religious belief, but I must accept his
belief as truth.
Yours is the typical response from a demonized pagan.
Sorry for the name calling, but you put yourself in this one and I haven't
quite mastered
the technique of turning the other cheek.
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 03:46:10 AM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:08:28 GMT, "Wyle Coyote" <tare@org.ae> wrote:
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
With very good reason.
I do believe it.
Without any reason whatsoever.
You don't know my spiritual journey or experience.
Indeed, we do not. Nor are we very much interested in it.
End of discussion.
I admire your debating skills. Or should I say 'lack of' ?
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: DID JESUS EVEN EXIST? |
02 Apr 2004 07:42:07 AM |
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In article <r79q609563aqo3vbd695tb6ehg8b95l2te@4ax.com>, Jos Flachs says...
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 06:08:28 GMT, "Wyle Coyote" <tare@org.ae> wrote:
You're closed because you don't belive Jesus Christ is the son of God.
With very good reason.
I do believe it.
Without any reason whatsoever.
You don't know my spiritual journey or experience.
Indeed, we do not. Nor are we very much interested in it.
End of discussion.
I admire your debating skills. Or should I say 'lack of' ?
Yes, yes you should ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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