| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jon" |
| Date: |
28 Aug 2005 04:38:39 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Drinking |
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:34:07 -0400, "sportsfan" <nospamplease@fullofit.com>
wrote in message <11h28l6b4s0v72c@corp.supernews.com>:
jake_c wrote:
I took the burner tonight at my meeting - the urge to do coke (my drug
of choice) was overpowering me. But it passed. However, I am
drinking a budweiser right now.
Jake,
Two good answers from root and Paul. I really don't know anyone who has
indulged in alcohol however sparingly at first and not gone back to other
drugs as well.
there's plenty of people who enjoy alcohol without having to snort a line of
cocaine.
do you think that that is impossible to do?
you simpleminded person.
I have a sponsee who had 16 years clean. Last summer he met a
young lady and forgot he was an addict and how grateful he was.
grateful? he was most likely bored shitless by you and NA.
the simpleminded people who go to NA get their minds programmed with a bad
message, which they foolishly believe.
do you understand that we program our minds just like one programs a
computer?
we train ourselves to act in pre-programmed ways, so that when some
situation comes our way, we have a repertoire of responses.
one of the problems with the NA cult is that it programs its members for
failure, not success, contrary to what they believe.
they tell people that if they have just one drink, they'll relapse, in fact
having one drink is considered a relapse.
and when an NA member has just managed to ***** their clean time away (by
taking a drink), they'll feel "***** it, I might as well take my drug since
I've lost my clean time, which I value very highly."
NA programs people to value clean time very highly. This is a huge mistake.
It's the number one cause of relapse. If you stop counting clean time, and
actually totally ignore it, you get a better result.
Started with
a drink or two.... now he's 50 lbs. lighter, looks like *****, facing a jail
term for narcotics.....
all because NA does not help addicts stay clean.
came back to NA last night.
tell him to leave. best advice you could give him. take it yourself.
A grateful addict never uses..... alcohol is a drug..... I work a program of
total abstinence.... still working well today, day 6118.
you don't need to swear off drink because you were addicted to cocaine.
do you smoke tobacco?
NA is completely happy for you to die of smoking tobacco.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Drinking |
29 Aug 2005 05:27:17 PM |
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:55:31 -0400, "sportsfan" <nospamplease@fullofit.com>
wrote in message <11h68fd1kfrl1ed@corp.supernews.com>:
Jon wrote:
there's plenty of people who enjoy alcohol without having to snort a
line of cocaine.
do you think that that is impossible to do?
you simpleminded person.
I said I know of no one who didn't go back to drugs after trying alcohol
first. Didn't say it's impossible, just haven't seen it.
you are a damned liar.
they tell people that if they have just one drink, they'll relapse,
in fact having one drink is considered a relapse.
NAteaches
yes, NA teaches. NA is a cult. Cults teach.
total abstinence. No one has to do what they say. Some of us
choose to.
NA coerces.
NA exerts peer pressure and intolerance.
NA victimises.
and when an NA member has just managed to ***** their clean time away
(by taking a drink), they'll feel "***** it, I might as well take my
drug since I've lost my clean time, which I value very highly."
The quantity of time is irrelevant.
bull *****.
NA has clean time requirements.
Quality is important.
cult life is not quality life.
We have today only. And you can start your day over anytime you want.
meaningless waffle.
why don't you make every sentence count?
i'm not interested in waffle.
A grateful addict never uses..... alcohol is a drug..... I work a
program of total abstinence.... still working well today, day 6118.
you don't need to swear off drink because you were addicted to
cocaine.
I do. Substance abuse is substance abuse.
snorting the occasional line of coke is not substance abuse.
ditto for drinking.
You arseholes have defined substance abuse as taking even a small amount of
an illegal drug.
in this oppressive era of drug Prohibition, testing positive for cocaine is
considered evidence of substance abuse.
do you smoke tobacco?
No, gave it up when I entered the program.
contrary to the advice you were given. you were told not to quit.
Too bad you had to change your posting name Mel just to try to get others to
read your posts.
wrong again. i didn't change it for that reason.
I see you're still cross-posting to other irrelevant
newsgroups to try to get attention for yourself. How sad.
no, i'm evangelising the idea that NA is a religious cult that should be
avoided.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Drinking |
31 Aug 2005 03:49:12 AM |
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On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:56:34 -0400, "sportsfan" <nospamplease@fullofit.com>
wrote in message <11ha027et9k746@corp.supernews.com>:
Jon (also known as Mel) wrote:
NA has clean time requirements.
WRONG! The only ONLY requirement for membership is the DESIRE to stop using.
No clean time needed whatsoever.
i hate talking to retards, and you are evidently a fucking retard.
NA has clean time requirements, not for membership, *****, but for
holding various service positions.
do you smoke tobacco?
No, gave it up when I entered the program.
contrary to the advice you were given. you were told not to quit.
No one ever told me not to quit.
bull *****.
NA members are told not to quit smoking tobacco, at least NOT IN THE FIRST
YEAR. but after the first year, which may never come for some, they are not
told to quit smoking tobacco.
My sponsor encouraged me to try. I don't
remember you being at any of my meetings and hearing what I was told.
i don't have to. i know what NA teaches.
I'm not sure if you've ever been out of South Africa, and I do feel sorry
for you for having to live there......
why? it's nice here in Cape Town.
but that doesn't excuse you being a
troll.... or a *****.
you lack intelligence, like many NA members. stupid people like NA.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Drinking |
31 Aug 2005 03:27:25 AM |
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On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:43:56 +0100, Paul
<dontspamme@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
<h307h1phprafh22png6a5j5opv3kvhudi1@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 18:38:39 +0200, "Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za>, in
they tell people that if they have just one drink, they'll relapse, in fact
having one drink is considered a relapse.
and when an NA member has just managed to ***** their clean time away (by
taking a drink), they'll feel "***** it, I might as well take my drug since
I've lost my clean time, which I value very highly."
NA programs people to value clean time very highly. This is a huge mistake.
It's the number one cause of relapse. If you stop counting clean time, and
actually totally ignore it, you get a better result.
You do make a good point IMO though the nature of addiction seems to
be that once the habit of abstinence is broken, the "***** it" syndrome
comes into play with or without NA conditioning.
sure.
there are many drug users who have never had a problem with alcohol.
people who begin using an addictive substance will (in most cases) become
addicted to it.
how does being addicted to cocaine transform a person into an alcoholic too?
it doesn't.
the simple rule is to avoid addictive drugs. alcohol is not addictive. if
alcohol was addictive, you can be sure that it would be proscribed.
But NA does not adopt a scientific approach to ending addiction. NA has no
interest in science. it is a religion with a hidden agenda. it's real goal
has nothing to do with ending addiction. it's real goal is to propagate its
religion throughout the world. like any virus, it's sole aim is replication.
AA may have helped people kick alcohol. but then alcohol is not addictive.
I do feel that there
can sometimes be more focus on quantity of recovery rather than
quality although isn't this more to do with individual members rather
than NA itself?
NA has clean time requirements. NA meetings celebrate clean time milestones
at every meeting.
in NA, there is a huge focus on how long a member has been clean. it's used
as a measure of success.
you don't kick a habit or addiction by constantly remembering when last you
indulged.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Drinking |
03 Sep 2005 08:33:52 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:30:21 +0100, Paul
<dontspamme@westgreen.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
<uphdh1tkd4v53k2d4c6fs7b9itso942ru0@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 05:27:25 +0200, "Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za>, in
there are many drug users who have never had a problem with alcohol.
people who begin using an addictive substance will (in most cases) become
addicted to it.
how does being addicted to cocaine transform a person into an alcoholic too?
it doesn't.
That's right, it doesn't. Quite a few people do switch to alcohol
though after ditching their main drug.
'switch to alcohol'?
what does that mean?
i've always enjoyed drinking.
I switched to alcohol after freeing myself from methadone addiction.
being addicted to methadone is acceptable to all governments of this world.
it's a legal replacement for heroin.
I drank to excess before I ever started on illicit drugs though.
i drank myself into oblivion each night some years back when i was going
through my divorce.
I think a lot depends on the
person. Looking back, I believe that I needed to use in order to
block out a lot of stuff from early in my life.
i drank to cope with the pain of my divorce.
i don't drink like that anymore because the pain has faded.
the simple rule is to avoid addictive drugs. alcohol is not addictive. if
alcohol was addictive, you can be sure that it would be proscribed.
I don't agree with you here. Apart from being a psycholgical crutch,
alcohol can be physically addictive too - i.e. if taken to excess over
a sustrained period, withdrawal occurs when it is stopped.
sure. but it is damn hard to become physically dependent on it. i mean i
drank damn hard for several months and i did not develop a dependency on
alcohol. i was worried that i might, but it did not happen.
Admittedly, it is not so highly addictive as some other drugs though.
i don't know how long or hard one must drink in order to become physically
dependent on alcohol. i tried my best, but failed.
But NA does not adopt a scientific approach to ending addiction. NA has no
interest in science. it is a religion with a hidden agenda. it's real goal
has nothing to do with ending addiction. it's real goal is to propagate its
religion throughout the world. like any virus, it's sole aim is replication.
Some people may treat NA like that. Personally, I am happy for people
to break their addiction(s) whether or not they use NA. If it felt
like religion to me, I wouldn't bother with it. Religion caused me
plenty of psychological/psychiatric difficulties before I ever started
using. There's no way I would prescribe myself more of the same.
it's not identical to the type of cult you broke away from.
AA may have helped people kick alcohol. but then alcohol is not addictive.
Already stated that I don't agree with this bit.
i have used alcohol all my adult life. it's never addicted me. i've consumed
far more alcohol than cocaine. a small amount of cocaine usage, hooked me to
it, such that i felt compelled to use it everyday.
alcohol does not rate as an addictive drug. if it did, it would be
proscribed.
I do feel that there
can sometimes be more focus on quantity of recovery rather than
quality although isn't this more to do with individual members rather
than NA itself?
NA has clean time requirements. NA meetings celebrate clean time milestones
at every meeting.
in NA, there is a huge focus on how long a member has been clean. it's used
as a measure of success.
you don't kick a habit or addiction by constantly remembering when last you
indulged.
Agreed that clean time is only one aspect of a succesful recovery.
being clean off drugs is the whole thing, but to continually remember how
long it has been since you last used is to remind yourself to use again.
that's how the addicted part of our brain hears it.
if i recalled everyday how long its been since i last had a cigarette and
went to meetings everyday to hear from people struggling to give up cigs, i
would be backing smoking cigs pretty soon.
that's how it works for me, and i suspect for many many others.
that's why, in a nutshell, NA (and other drug support meetings) don't work
for many.
it's best to just forget about it.
posting about drug addiction online doesn't give me an impulse to use again.
if i attend an NA meeting, i come out wanting to use.
all those silly arseholes talking about their 'wonderful' experiences and
what they did, makes me want to use again, not the opposite.
i still consort with people (mostly whores) who use drugs, even in front of
me, and it does not make me want to use with them. funny that.
i listen to all the ***** they talk. man, they talk *****. they'll tell me
***** about how the drugs do not control them. then i test them (without
telling them that i'm testing them).
they'll want to go get some more, and i'll say, "no, let's leave the drugs
for the rest of the night" and they'll become very angry and start throwing
absolute tantrums. then i pretend that i'll go buy them some more (they
never have cash), and then i take them out to a remote spot, chuck them out
of my car, smack them up a bit if they give me any uphill (normally they
start the violence when they realise they're being fucked over), and dump
them. then i tell them as i'm driving off, that the drugs definitely control
them and they're pieces of lowlife trash who i hope will die soon.
i loathe lying pieces of druggie *****. why lie, when it's patently fucking
obvious that your entire life revolves around using?
i recall that my life went out of control like that too - i felt an absolute
compulsion to use. i knew my life was controlled by drugs. i didn't feel the
need to lie about it. why can't these fucking pieces of ***** see that they
are controlled by drugs? i will do them the service of proving to these
arseholes that their lives are indeed controlled by the drugs.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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