Re: Efficient causality


 Religions > Atheism > Re: Efficient causality

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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Randy Story"
Date: 02 Feb 2005 03:51:56 AM
Object: Re: Efficient causality
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:...


"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:_7adnZS3l7lo3p3fRVn-1A@io.com...


"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:110087v5fin9u19@corp.supernews.com...


"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:216001d5vcl017clvebe2st7r77m1ag1g2@4ax.com...

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:14:39 -0800, "Randy Story"

<rstorynw@olypen.com>

said in alt.atheism:

What happened to the law of efficient causality. This law states

that

every effect, or event or something that begins, or coming into
existence
*must* have a cause for its coming to be.


And it's nonsense.

This would seem self evident as


... as the Earth being flat. And as wrong.


It is not self evident that the earth is flat. Do you really

understand

what
a self evident truth is?


The definition is not "What idiots think they see."


It has nothing to do with seeing, it is self evident as the laws of logic.
Even you writing
that the law of causality is not valid is a caused statement from your

mind,

you cant escape it.
You can believe that it doesnt apply for your own purpose but that is just
being irrational.





all would agree that from absolute nothingness comes nothing. Today

an

exception has arisen for a single area of sceince that some say deny
this
principle. This of course is quantum physics.


And, since there's no actual evidence that this "law of efficient
causality" (it's not a law, it's an assertion - what's the method of
falsification? Oh, yes - finding something that comes about with no
cause.) must obtain, and we DO have evidence that, in at least one
case it doesn't, it's just more Christian nonsense. Nonsense which
has been refuted, since its method of falsification has just been

used

to falsify it.


Al, the laws of logic cant be falsified either, they are self evident
first
principles jus as the law of efficient causality is.


But it's falsified, as demonstrated. Thus it is no longer self evident.

Falsified because we have no clue what is beyond the quantum level, CMON.
talk about faith.


--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet




.

User: "Josef Balluch"

Title: Re: Efficient causality 06 Feb 2005 03:53:19 AM
In a message sent 'round the world, Randy Story poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
....

But it's falsified, as demonstrated. Thus it is no longer self evident.


Falsified because we have no clue what is beyond the quantum level, CMON.
talk about faith.

Nonsense. No faith is involved.
There is nothing beyond the quantum level. Planck's constant of action
determines the limits of reality because it is related to information.
Specifically, Planck's constant or "action quanta" determines the number
of bits of information that can be available to an observer. An action
quantum represents, at most, a single bit of information. No smaller
amount of information can be meaningful.
http://tinyurl.com/5xs6e
Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle follows from Planck's constant, and
the Uncertainty Principle is then simply a restatement of the fact that
there is a fundamental limit to available information. No information
can exist for anything beyond Heisenberg's limit, even in principle.
This means that there is no reality to be found beyond this fundamental
limit.
Regards,
Josef
Science is based on the experience that nature gives intelligent answers
to intelligent questions.
-- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Efficient causality 03 Feb 2005 12:11:01 AM
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:51:56 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com>
said in alt.atheism:

"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:...

Al, the laws of logic cant be falsified either, they are self evident first
principles jus as the law of efficient causality is.

But it's falsified, as demonstrated. Thus it is no longer self evident.

Falsified because we have no clue what is beyond the quantum level

That's not 'falsified', that's 'unknowable'.
--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.


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