| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Katt" |
| Date: |
31 Oct 2005 04:21:18 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
<iftikhargul@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130604306.826905.25140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Atheism is also a belief in non-existance of God
Nope. Stop lying about atheists.
and all beleivers in
atheism very strongly defend their belief, call it their narrow
mindedness or enlightment, it is no different than the passion people
expresses in their religious beliefs such as christianity.
I see: you now think you speak for all atheists as well as all Christians.
Fascinating symptom.
I separated
all beliefs including atheism. Looks like you are a narrow minded
person incapable of understanding intelligent arguments. Calling people
liars without provocation shows that you need to grow up.
You are still lying about atheism. Atheists don't have 'a belief in [the]
non-existance [sic] of God [sic]': the very *notion* of that specific
god-fantasy - one of countless thousands of such fantasies, all of them
completely without evidential support - *simply has no meaning* outside of
the (in your tradition's case) Biblical belief system. Furthermore,
'strength of conviction' or 'passion' are not in any sense proof of
'religion'; and rational belief founded on an evidential basis is NOT the
same as proudly and determinedly counter-factual 'religious faith'. So I
repeat: *Atheism is not a religion*.
God-deluded people and their appeasers continually try to bring these silly
superstitions before non-believers -- and these non-believers respond by
saying (i) that there is not the slightest evidence for any of the thousands
of different god-fantasies that have swarmed and multiplied in the darkness
of the primitive mind; and (ii) that an overwhelming mass of modern human
knowledge makes the existence of every one of these 'gods' completely
implausible, even where the actual claims of a given 'religion' aren't
ridiculous on strictly logical grounds. Atheism is as much a 'religion' as
*your rational and principled and determined refusal to believe in the
Easter Bunny* is 'a religion'. Atheism is merely *a position adopted with
regard to a religious issue*. And if you can't see the difference between
those two things, then you are pitiful as well as despicable.
Katt.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
18 Nov 2005 10:48:41 PM |
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1811052023030001@pm1-broad-103.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
snip
You should do the same. You must have failed to read the references at the
end of the article. The box has been mentioned in various books and
magazines.
They don't matter. You were wrong in your original statement that Skinner
kept a child in a box for several years as an experiment. Grow up and deal
with it.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
18 Nov 2005 09:06:21 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:16:13 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1811051416130001@pm1-broad-67.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <k2asn11i0thm5jfo5ejqc6atm418bb66of@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:08:20 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1811051108200001@pm4-broad-10.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <jason-1811051049560001@pm4-broad-10.snlo.dialup.fix.net>,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
In article <prvrn1d7n18r8hle7858lbapkh2fj04le5@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
...
Could you point to the original research where it shows that he kept a
child in the box for a few years, please.
Was Skinner doing science?
Pschological research--Most psychologists believe that psychology is
science.
If you want to see the same picture (of small child) that was printed in
my psych. 101 textbook, visit the site mentioned at the end of this
article:
One Man and a Baby Box
[Article showing that this was _not_ a Skinner box deleted]
Do you ever read the articles that you post?
Yes, I read it. It had the same picture that was in my college psych textbook.
At the time I took the class, the lady that was interviewed in the story
that I posted was still a young child.
Oh, by the way, how old are you. Assuming your claim is correct, you
were in college around 1950. Are you 75?
I recall that our professor was
concerned that the child would eventually develop mental problems. I was
pleased to learn from the report that I posted that the child in the
picture never developed mental problems as a result of her childhood
experiences. I should not that I never stated in my post that the child
was locked in a box 24 hours every day. I believe some people mis-read my
post.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
18 Nov 2005 04:54:30 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:16:13 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1811051416130001@pm1-broad-67.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <k2asn11i0thm5jfo5ejqc6atm418bb66of@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:08:20 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1811051108200001@pm4-broad-10.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <jason-1811051049560001@pm4-broad-10.snlo.dialup.fix.net>,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
In article <prvrn1d7n18r8hle7858lbapkh2fj04le5@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
...
Could you point to the original research where it shows that he kept a
child in the box for a few years, please.
Was Skinner doing science?
Pschological research--Most psychologists believe that psychology is
science.
If you want to see the same picture (of small child) that was printed in
my psych. 101 textbook, visit the site mentioned at the end of this
article:
One Man and a Baby Box
[Article showing that this was _not_ a Skinner box deleted]
Do you ever read the articles that you post?
Yes, I read it. It had the same picture that was in my college psych textbook.
At the time I took the class, the lady that was interviewed in the story
that I posted was still a young child. I recall that our professor was
concerned that the child would eventually develop mental problems. I was
pleased to learn from the report that I posted that the child in the
picture never developed mental problems as a result of her childhood
experiences. I should not that I never stated in my post that the child
was locked in a box 24 hours every day. I believe some people mis-read my
post.
It was not a Skinner box and she was not kept in it. Other than being
completely wrong, you were right, you saw a picture of a structure that
Skinner had used.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
18 Nov 2005 04:46:38 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:42:05 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <3u4dspFvnj5jU1@individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" < > wrote in message
news:jason-1711051357060001@pm4-broad-57.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
snip
Hello,
Thanks for your post. I believe that scientists should attempt to prove
that life can evolve from non-life. I
Why should they do that? Just because you want them to?
I doubt that I am the only person in the world that would like to
see scientists attempt to perform such an experiment. It would
make more sense than some of the ridicules experiments that I
have read about over the years.
Science learns by getting things wrong as well as getting things
right. Like detectives they eliminate suspects from their enquiry
leaving just the one (or none). Just try getting though a maze
without sometimes taking a dead end path.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 12:16:02 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:51:12 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611052151120001@pm4-broad-0.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <nf2on19lfrob5qthhn80nklu437il55c6c@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:27:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051827210001@pm1-broad-121.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <6ginn19r3r0qkgttahvgud69asnpug2cro@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:19:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051519160001@pm4-broad-44.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <437b9687$0$76285$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I would appreciate your opinions about this article:
The mousetrap
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos"
Did you read it to the end? It is an anti cs and id article, well done
too.
I still enjoyed it. The professor that wrote it is a rational thinker.
I respect those sorts of people even if I don't always agree with them.
Yet you refuse to be a rational thinker.
As a result of a college biology class, I realized that micro-evolution
was a fact.
Yes, evolution is a fact. It happens through variation and natural
selection.
If I was not a rational thinker--I would not have been able to
realize it. I have told the subscribers of this newsgroup that I would
turn my back on the creation science movement if scientists could prove to
me that life could evolve from non-life.
Life can arise from non-life. There are no chemical boundaries to stop
it from happening. I'm willing to bet that you will ignore the comment
or weasel out of your clear statement, just as you have in the past when
you were informed that life could indeed arise from non-living material.
I have never seen any reports about an experiment that proved that life
can evolve from non-life.
Your ignorance is not my problem, since it is quite clear that it is
self-inflicted.
I did read about an attempt to prove it but the
experiment was a failure.
No, you did not. There is a difference between 'can life arise from
non-living chemicals' and 'can scientists make it happen today'. The
answer to the first question is that life can and has arisen from
non-living chemicals. The second answer, to a completely different
question, is that scientists have not succeeded at it yet, unless you
count assembling a virus.
After the experiment was done, the experiment
would have to be discussed in detail in a sci. journal. That means any
scientist in the world could repeat the experiment. Please tell me where I
can read about such an experiment. I may visit the local college lab and
ask one of the biology professors to conduct the experiment in front of
me. I would love to see life evolve from non-life.
I answered the question you asked. You complained about an answer to a
question that you did not ask. Will you deny that continental drift
exists just because scientists cannot move the continents around?
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 06:07:50 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:44:59 -0600, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:27:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051827210001@pm1-broad-121.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <6ginn19r3r0qkgttahvgud69asnpug2cro@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:19:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051519160001@pm4-broad-44.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <437b9687$0$76285$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I would appreciate your opinions about this article:
The mousetrap
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos"
Did you read it to the end? It is an anti cs and id article, well done
too.
I still enjoyed it. The professor that wrote it is a rational thinker.
I respect those sorts of people even if I don't always agree with them.
Yet you refuse to be a rational thinker.
As a result of a college biology class, I realized that micro-evolution
was a fact.
Yes, evolution is a fact. It happens through variation and natural
selection.
If I was not a rational thinker--I would not have been able to
realize it. I have told the subscribers of this newsgroup that I would
turn my back on the creation science movement if scientists could prove to
me that life could evolve from non-life.
Life can arise from non-life. There are no chemical boundaries to stop
it from happening. I'm willing to bet that you will ignore the comment
or weasel out of your clear statement, just as you have in the past when
you were informed that life could indeed arise from non-living material.
Sadly they will not be able to demonstrate how it happenned in my
lifetime. I would really love to be still around when it causes the
fatal blow to belief in gods and the absolute crisis it will cause
in the churches of the world. They will of course try to deny it at
first as they tried to deny evolution but the blow will be mortal
and religion will face its armaggedon just as predicted in the Bible.
It will not be the armaggedon they hoped for though :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 10:06:49 AM |
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In article <1dson11ki4q35t2n3k1sg96pb2kk8eskdq@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:44:59 -0600, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:27:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051827210001@pm1-broad-121.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <6ginn19r3r0qkgttahvgud69asnpug2cro@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:19:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051519160001@pm4-broad-44.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <437b9687$0$76285$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I would appreciate your opinions about this article:
The mousetrap
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos"
Did you read it to the end? It is an anti cs and id article,
well done
too.
I still enjoyed it. The professor that wrote it is a rational thinker.
I respect those sorts of people even if I don't always agree with them.
Yet you refuse to be a rational thinker.
As a result of a college biology class, I realized that micro-evolution
was a fact.
Yes, evolution is a fact. It happens through variation and natural
selection.
If I was not a rational thinker--I would not have been able to
realize it. I have told the subscribers of this newsgroup that I would
turn my back on the creation science movement if scientists could prove to
me that life could evolve from non-life.
Life can arise from non-life. There are no chemical boundaries to stop
it from happening. I'm willing to bet that you will ignore the comment
or weasel out of your clear statement, just as you have in the past when
you were informed that life could indeed arise from non-living material.
Sadly they will not be able to demonstrate how it happenned in my
lifetime. I would really love to be still around when it causes the
fatal blow to belief in gods and the absolute crisis it will cause
in the churches of the world. They will of course try to deny it at
first as they tried to deny evolution but the blow will be mortal
and religion will face its armaggedon just as predicted in the Bible.
It will not be the armaggedon they hoped for though :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I doubt if it will ever happen. I don't believe that it's possible for
life to evolve from non-life unless "tricks" are done to make it happen.
For example, having substances (such as DNA) in the solution that evolves
into life.
I seem to recall that one scientist already tried that trick. Even that
experiment did not succeed. I believe that it was evolutionist that
determined the experiment was not a success. I learned from this newsgroup
that most evolutionists are honest. They expose fellow evolutionists when
the screw up. I think that is great.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 01:22:47 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:06:49 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <1dson11ki4q35t2n3k1sg96pb2kk8eskdq@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:44:59 -0600, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:27:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051827210001@pm1-broad-121.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <6ginn19r3r0qkgttahvgud69asnpug2cro@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:19:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051519160001@pm4-broad-44.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <437b9687$0$76285$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I would appreciate your opinions about this article:
The mousetrap
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos"
Did you read it to the end? It is an anti cs and id article,
well done
too.
I still enjoyed it. The professor that wrote it is a rational thinker.
I respect those sorts of people even if I don't always agree with them.
Yet you refuse to be a rational thinker.
As a result of a college biology class, I realized that micro-evolution
was a fact.
Yes, evolution is a fact. It happens through variation and natural
selection.
If I was not a rational thinker--I would not have been able to
realize it. I have told the subscribers of this newsgroup that I would
turn my back on the creation science movement if scientists could prove to
me that life could evolve from non-life.
Life can arise from non-life. There are no chemical boundaries to stop
it from happening. I'm willing to bet that you will ignore the comment
or weasel out of your clear statement, just as you have in the past when
you were informed that life could indeed arise from non-living material.
Sadly they will not be able to demonstrate how it happenned in my
lifetime. I would really love to be still around when it causes the
fatal blow to belief in gods and the absolute crisis it will cause
in the churches of the world. They will of course try to deny it at
first as they tried to deny evolution but the blow will be mortal
and religion will face its armaggedon just as predicted in the Bible.
It will not be the armaggedon they hoped for though :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I doubt if it will ever happen. I don't believe that it's possible for
life to evolve from non-life unless "tricks" are done to make it happen.
For example, having substances (such as DNA) in the solution that evolves
into life.
I very much doubt if life could 'evolve' from non life, it is a misuse
of the term. Revolutionary or radical change would be more appropriate
terms since you cannot have half or a quarter life, just life-none
life like a light switch. This is a genuine black or white situation I
would think. Light from a bulb does not 'evolve' from switch
on but occurs catastrophically (ie the filament and current 'flow'
through it is very unstable for a fraction of a second until a new
stability is achieved.) I have no knowledge of abiogenisis research
so I am just guessing.
Evolution can only begin once life capable of evolving comes into
existence hence evolution has nothing whatsover to do with life
creation/abiogenesis. Quite separate problems to solve.
I seem to recall that one scientist already tried that trick. Even that
experiment did not succeed. I believe that it was evolutionist that
determined the experiment was not a success.
Nothing to do with evolutionists. This is abiogenesis research
a different scientific field of study.
I learned from this newsgroup
that most evolutionists are honest.
They have to be, they are scientists. Science is only concerned
about finding the truth and does not tolerate lies and half truths
which is why, of course ID is rejected.
They expose fellow evolutionists when
the screw up. I think that is great.
But not when they expose ID for what it is? :-)
You would do well to compare ID religion with science and
decide which of the two is the more honest, and also bear
in mind what you believe is a commandment from god that
you should not bear false witness either for yourself or
on behalf of others
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 01:47:55 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:06:49 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1711050806490001@pm1-broad-116.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <1dson11ki4q35t2n3k1sg96pb2kk8eskdq@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:44:59 -0600, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:27:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051827210001@pm1-broad-121.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <6ginn19r3r0qkgttahvgud69asnpug2cro@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:19:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051519160001@pm4-broad-44.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <437b9687$0$76285$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I would appreciate your opinions about this article:
The mousetrap
Life is too complex for evolution to explain, say supporters of
intelligent design. Yet they insist market forces will suffice for the
economy, writes John Allen Paulos"
Did you read it to the end? It is an anti cs and id article,
well done
too.
I still enjoyed it. The professor that wrote it is a rational thinker.
I respect those sorts of people even if I don't always agree with them.
Yet you refuse to be a rational thinker.
As a result of a college biology class, I realized that micro-evolution
was a fact.
Yes, evolution is a fact. It happens through variation and natural
selection.
If I was not a rational thinker--I would not have been able to
realize it. I have told the subscribers of this newsgroup that I would
turn my back on the creation science movement if scientists could prove to
me that life could evolve from non-life.
Life can arise from non-life. There are no chemical boundaries to stop
it from happening. I'm willing to bet that you will ignore the comment
or weasel out of your clear statement, just as you have in the past when
you were informed that life could indeed arise from non-living material.
Sadly they will not be able to demonstrate how it happenned in my
lifetime. I would really love to be still around when it causes the
fatal blow to belief in gods and the absolute crisis it will cause
in the churches of the world. They will of course try to deny it at
first as they tried to deny evolution but the blow will be mortal
and religion will face its armaggedon just as predicted in the Bible.
It will not be the armaggedon they hoped for though :-)
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
I doubt if it will ever happen. I don't believe that it's possible for
life to evolve from non-life unless "tricks" are done to make it happen.
For example, having substances (such as DNA) in the solution that evolves
into life.
I seem to recall that one scientist already tried that trick. Even that
experiment did not succeed. I believe that it was evolutionist that
determined the experiment was not a success. I learned from this newsgroup
that most evolutionists are honest. They expose fellow evolutionists when
the screw up. I think that is great.
Jason
Your example is too vague to be useful. It's vaguely libellous.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 10:47:34 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:24:38 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611050824380001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <vplmn15jku21k8l6o472gv2hd2er93j9l8@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:37:36 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611050737360001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
....
I agreed that it was my opinion. I also believe that it's a logical
opinion. I realize that what seems to be logical to me may NOT seem to be
logical to various other people. This is especially true in regard to the
evolution vs creation science debate. For example, when I look at the
stars--I would think that it was logical to conclude that God made the
stars. You may look at those stars and think that it was logical to
conclude that God was not involved.
Do you see my point?
It's not a very good one. Jumping to conclusions when we have actual
evidence that contradicts your conclusions is neither responsible nor
logical.
Of course, you appear to be making an assumption that I am wrong about my
conclusions when it relates to things like stars.
No, I am stating that your conclusions are not consistent with the
evidence.
Since the scientists
don't know the facts related to how the stars were formed--it's possible
my conclusions about the stars are correct and your conclusions are wrong.
Your ignorance of cosmology is not evidence that scientists do not know
how stars form. They do. Not only that, but they can point out to you
places where stars are forming.
It's also possible that my conclusions about the stars are wrong and
your conclusions about the stars is correct. Do you understand my point?
I understand your point, but your point is wrong. It is based on
ignorance of the evidence. While anyone is entitled to have an opinion,
no matter how contrary to the evidence, there is no reason that anyone
else should do anything but point out that the opinion of the first is
based on erroneous information.
You have a pattern of claiming that scientists don't know something,
when they do. You then conclude, based on your erroneous claim, that
your opinion may be valid. It is not.
Your indifference to evidence and misstatements about evidence brings
scorn, not only to yourself and those who tell the same lies about
science like Gish, but, unfortunately, to other Christians who are
honest and trustworthy when dealing with evidence.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
15 Nov 2005 07:52:49 PM |
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|
(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511051706240001@pm1-broad-115.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
<...>
Les,
You already know that I believe that God created the earth and life.
My effort was to try to make people aware of the fact that the earth
and solar system had to have a beginning. How did they come to be--the
logical conclusion is that God created the solar system.
That's not a logical conclusion.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 01:28:58 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns970FD48E49C93fstone69@213.155.197.138>, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511051706240001@pm1-broad-115.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
<...>
Les,
You already know that I believe that God created the earth and life.
My effort was to try to make people aware of the fact that the earth
and solar system had to have a beginning. How did they come to be--the
logical conclusion is that God created the solar system.
That's not a logical conclusion.
What's your logical conclusion? If you support the big bang theory, how
did the matter that exploded come to be? When I saw a film that showed
(computer animation) the big bang taking place, the narrator of the film
failed to explain how the matter that exploded came to be. The professor
that showed the film refused to answer any questions about the film. My
question would have been,
"how did the matter that exploded come to be?" It's hard to believe that
scientists could come up the big bang theory without even bothering to
explain how the matter came to be.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 09:00:49 AM |
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"how did the matter that exploded come to be?" It's hard to believe that
scientists could come up the big bang theory without even bothering to
explain how the matter came to be."
There are proposed explanations. In many areas science does not explain
something upon which rests other science. Newton could not explain
gravity, and we are still trying to know what it is, but the whole of his
science did not fail because for it. Evolution does not depend on the big
bang or the origin of life to be a valid science.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 07:50:44 AM |
|
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(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511052328590001@pm4-broad-41.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <Xns970FD48E49C93fstone69@213.155.197.138>, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511051706240001@pm1-broad-115.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
<...>
Les,
You already know that I believe that God created the earth and
life. My effort was to try to make people aware of the fact that
the earth and solar system had to have a beginning. How did they
come to be--the logical conclusion is that God created the solar
system.
That's not a logical conclusion.
What's your logical conclusion?
I haven't reached one. There are a number of competing conjectures that
are supported by the evidence.
If you support the big bang theory,
how did the matter that exploded come to be? When I saw a film that
showed (computer animation) the big bang taking place, the narrator of
the film failed to explain how the matter that exploded came to be.
The professor that showed the film refused to answer any questions
about the film. My question would have been,
"how did the matter that exploded come to be?" It's hard to believe
that scientists could come up the big bang theory without even
bothering to explain how the matter came to be.
Admit it, Jason, it's not hard for you to believe it, it's just that
you're determined not to understand the evidence that led to the Big
Bang theory because it conflicts with your religious beliefs.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
.
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| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 09:32:37 AM |
|
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In article <Xns97105A1DEE0FDfstone69@213.155.197.138>, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511052328590001@pm4-broad-41.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <Xns970FD48E49C93fstone69@213.155.197.138>, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-1511051706240001@pm1-broad-115.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
<...>
Les,
You already know that I believe that God created the earth and
life. My effort was to try to make people aware of the fact that
the earth and solar system had to have a beginning. How did they
come to be--the logical conclusion is that God created the solar
system.
That's not a logical conclusion.
What's your logical conclusion?
I haven't reached one. There are a number of competing conjectures that
are supported by the evidence.
If you support the big bang theory,
how did the matter that exploded come to be? When I saw a film that
showed (computer animation) the big bang taking place, the narrator of
the film failed to explain how the matter that exploded came to be.
The professor that showed the film refused to answer any questions
about the film. My question would have been,
"how did the matter that exploded come to be?" It's hard to believe
that scientists could come up the big bang theory without even
bothering to explain how the matter came to be.
Admit it, Jason, it's not hard for you to believe it, it's just that
you're determined not to understand the evidence that led to the Big
Bang theory because it conflicts with your religious beliefs.
Fred,
The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the earth
and the solar system. It could have been the Big Bang or some other
mechanism. My point was that at the time (several years ago) I saw the
film related to the Big Bang, there did not appear to be any theories as
to how the matter that exploded came to be. If the Big Bang was the
mechanism that God used to create the earth and solar system--God was
responsible for creating the matter that exploded and even caused it to
explode. Most of the scientists don't even appear to be considering that
possiblily in their research efforts. They have a "closed mind" when it
involves God and creation science.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 08:56:36 AM |
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"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 10:32:07 AM |
|
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In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals. The advocates of creation science are of the opinion that
micro-evolution took over after the creation was finished. It's my opinion
that some of the plants and animals became the so called "common ancestral
populations" discussed in classical evolution theory.
The Bible does not include a detailed list of all of the animals and
plants that God created. We can only make hypothesis about those plants
and animals based on the animals that are now in the world or that are now
extinct
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 11:36:54 AM |
|
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"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 12:12:46 PM |
|
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> said:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
The roundearthists will be the next target, after the evolutionists
are dealt with. Roundearthism is just a theory. There are gaps, like,
why don't the people in Australia fall off?
--- Jim07D5
.
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| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 02:19:05 PM |
|
|
In article <3u1903Fv84g8U1@individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
yes
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 03:16:24 PM |
|
|
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611051219050001@pm4-broad-45.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <3u1903Fv84g8U1@individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk
want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God
could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of
the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
yes
Oh my. Even though it's impossible?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 03:14:34 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:19:05 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <3u1903Fv84g8U1@individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" < > wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
Oh dear, a coffee spluttered over the keyboard moment.
LOL
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 02:28:33 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:19:05 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-1611051219050001@pm4-broad-45.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <3u1903Fv84g8U1@individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
yes
Even though the geological and anthropoligical evidence shows without a
doubt that there was no such flood, that there was no such genetic
bottleneck, that there is no possible way to build a boat that does what
is claimed for it, and that the whole story was borrowed from a previous
culture.
Why do you believe it when it cannot possibly be true?
[Didn't you promise to stop cross-posting this to sci.life-extension? I
have deleted it in my response.]
.
|
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| User: "BDK" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 12:12:59 PM |
|
|
In article <3u1903Fv84g8U1@individual.net>,
says...
"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1611050832070001@pm4-broad-8.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
In article <437b48a4$0$76287$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"The Bible does not explain the mechanism that God used to create the
earth and the solar system. "
Nor does it say how life and its variation occured either. Cs folk want
to force unto the bible their and their specific view alone. God could
have used evolution from one cell, the bible does not say.
The Bible does provide some information. The first several chapters of the
Bible explain that God created Adam and Eve, lots of plants and lots of
animals.
Oh brother. You actually believe this?
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
The worst loon at work got bright red in the face when we "mocked his
belief in Adam and Eve". I thought he was going to cry before it was all
done, but he just got a badly shaking lower lip.
But don't get him started on "predestination", or Calvinism, because if
you do, you can watch the madness take over. It's kind of spooky, and I
have to fight the urge to shake the ***** out of his scrawny ***** and try
to snap him back to reality/sanity.
Noah's ark? He says it's 100% true. When you happen to mention that we
today couldn't build a ship big enough, and if we did, it would fall
apart, and he says "God kept it together for 40 days", and "That's why
the dinosaurs are dead!"
His wife makes him seem like a fun guy. She's almost as scary looking as
the whackjob woman on Trading Spouses last week.
I feel sorry for their 3 kids..
BDK
.
|
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 01:36:07 PM |
|
|
"BDK" <kingratay@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1de540b83bfff384989bf1@news.buckeye-express.com...
snip
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
The worst loon at work got bright red in the face when we "mocked his
belief in Adam and Eve". I thought he was going to cry before it was all
done, but he just got a badly shaking lower lip.
But don't get him started on "predestination", or Calvinism, because if
you do, you can watch the madness take over. It's kind of spooky, and I
have to fight the urge to shake the ***** out of his scrawny ***** and try
to snap him back to reality/sanity.
Oh my.
Noah's ark? He says it's 100% true. When you happen to mention that we
today couldn't build a ship big enough, and if we did, it would fall
apart, and he says "God kept it together for 40 days", and "That's why
the dinosaurs are dead!"
NO! Holy crap.
His wife makes him seem like a fun guy. She's almost as scary looking as
the whackjob woman on Trading Spouses last week.
Eeeeeek! Where do you find these people?
I feel sorry for their 3 kids..
Me too :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "BDK" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
16 Nov 2005 10:30:07 PM |
|
|
In article <3u1fvkFv75i9U1@individual.net>,
says...
"BDK" <kingratay@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1de540b83bfff384989bf1@news.buckeye-express.com...
snip
I bet you believe the story about Noah's ark too.
The worst loon at work got bright red in the face when we "mocked his
belief in Adam and Eve". I thought he was going to cry before it was all
done, but he just got a badly shaking lower lip.
But don't get him started on "predestination", or Calvinism, because if
you do, you can watch the madness take over. It's kind of spooky, and I
have to fight the urge to shake the ***** out of his scrawny ***** and try
to snap him back to reality/sanity.
Oh my.
Noah's ark? He says it's 100% true. When you happen to mention that we
today couldn't build a ship big enough, and if we did, it would fall
apart, and he says "God kept it together for 40 days", and "That's why
the dinosaurs are dead!"
NO! Holy crap.
His wife makes him seem like a fun guy. She's almost as scary looking as
the whackjob woman on Trading Spouses last week.
Eeeeeek! Where do you find these people?
I feel sorry for their 3 kids..
Me too :(
That guy's wife looks like a fatter than she ever was Roseanne Barr,
with red hair and lots of freckles. One guy at work calls her "Jabba the
Fundy". I shot tea all over my monitor when he said that. She must weigh
close to 3 times what her hubby does, who quit his last job, managing a
Christian bookstore, because gawd told him to one day. He sat at home
for a couple of years, before god told him to get a job again. Sheesh.
Where I work at, about half the people there 5 years ago were foaming at
the mouth fundies, who IMO, shouldn't have been allowed to have custody
of kids at all. They almost all seemed to have a kid that had some sort
of medical problem related to stress, like irritable bowel, or colitis,
or they had a druggie son, or a daughter who was "busy" sex wise.
I was always very uncomfortable around them, especially when they would
ask me to come to the prayer meetings. I tried to be nice, but I
couldn't really hide my feelings of distaste (don't know how to really
describe how I feel around fundies, I'm more comfortable around actual
mental patients!) when they asked me.
There are only a couple of "foamer" fundies left, and one other one who
does a whole lot of bible reading and highlighting, and nodding, etc.
He never talks about his beliefs at all.
BDK
.
|
|
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 08:36:52 AM |
|
|
"BDK" <kingratay@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1de5d155dabcb8d989bf4@news.buckeye-express.com...
In article <3u1fvkFv75i9U1@individual.net>,
snip
Eeeeeek! Where do you find these people?
I feel sorry for their 3 kids..
Me too :(
That guy's wife looks like a fatter than she ever was Roseanne Barr,
with red hair and lots of freckles. One guy at work calls her "Jabba the
Fundy". I shot tea all over my monitor when he said that.
LOL! I don't blame you ;)
She must weigh
close to 3 times what her hubby does, who quit his last job, managing a
Christian bookstore, because gawd told him to one day.
Get out! WTF?
He sat at home
for a couple of years, before god told him to get a job again. Sheesh.
Who paid the bills? God?
Where I work at, about half the people there 5 years ago were foaming at
the mouth fundies, who IMO, shouldn't have been allowed to have custody
of kids at all.
Holy crap. Where the heck do you live?
They almost all seemed to have a kid that had some sort
of medical problem related to stress, like irritable bowel, or colitis,
or they had a druggie son, or a daughter who was "busy" sex wise.
Lawd be praised <cough>
I was always very uncomfortable around them, especially when they would
ask me to come to the prayer meetings.
Oh my. Last time I was asked that was back in college. A very curt "No,
thank you" worked quite well.
I tried to be nice, but I
couldn't really hide my feelings of distaste (don't know how to really
describe how I feel around fundies, I'm more comfortable around actual
mental patients!) when they asked me.
There are only a couple of "foamer" fundies left, and one other one who
does a whole lot of bible reading and highlighting, and nodding, etc.
He never talks about his beliefs at all.
Thank goodness for that.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
| User: "BDK" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
17 Nov 2005 12:51:17 PM |
|
|
In article <3u3iqhFs9otcU1@individual.net>,
says...
"BDK" <kingratay@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1de5d155dabcb8d989bf4@news.buckeye-express.com...
In article <3u1fvkFv75i9U1@individual.net>,
snip
Eeeeeek! Where do you find these people?
I feel sorry for their 3 kids..
Me too :(
That guy's wife looks like a fatter than she ever was Roseanne Barr,
with red hair and lots of freckles. One guy at work calls her "Jabba the
Fundy". I shot tea all over my monitor when he said that.
LOL! I don't blame you ;)
She must weigh
close to 3 times what her hubby does, who quit his last job, managing a
Christian bookstore, because gawd told him to one day.
Get out! WTF?
He sat at home
for a couple of years, before god told him to get a job again. Sheesh.
Who paid the bills? God?
No, the wife worked and his folks gave them money.
Where I work at, about half the people there 5 years ag | | | | | | | | | | | | |
