| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Katt" |
| Date: |
31 Oct 2005 04:21:18 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
<iftikhargul@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130604306.826905.25140@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Atheism is also a belief in non-existance of God
Nope. Stop lying about atheists.
and all beleivers in
atheism very strongly defend their belief, call it their narrow
mindedness or enlightment, it is no different than the passion people
expresses in their religious beliefs such as christianity.
I see: you now think you speak for all atheists as well as all Christians.
Fascinating symptom.
I separated
all beliefs including atheism. Looks like you are a narrow minded
person incapable of understanding intelligent arguments. Calling people
liars without provocation shows that you need to grow up.
You are still lying about atheism. Atheists don't have 'a belief in [the]
non-existance [sic] of God [sic]': the very *notion* of that specific
god-fantasy - one of countless thousands of such fantasies, all of them
completely without evidential support - *simply has no meaning* outside of
the (in your tradition's case) Biblical belief system. Furthermore,
'strength of conviction' or 'passion' are not in any sense proof of
'religion'; and rational belief founded on an evidential basis is NOT the
same as proudly and determinedly counter-factual 'religious faith'. So I
repeat: *Atheism is not a religion*.
God-deluded people and their appeasers continually try to bring these silly
superstitions before non-believers -- and these non-believers respond by
saying (i) that there is not the slightest evidence for any of the thousands
of different god-fantasies that have swarmed and multiplied in the darkness
of the primitive mind; and (ii) that an overwhelming mass of modern human
knowledge makes the existence of every one of these 'gods' completely
implausible, even where the actual claims of a given 'religion' aren't
ridiculous on strictly logical grounds. Atheism is as much a 'religion' as
*your rational and principled and determined refusal to believe in the
Easter Bunny* is 'a religion'. Atheism is merely *a position adopted with
regard to a religious issue*. And if you can't see the difference between
those two things, then you are pitiful as well as despicable.
Katt.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 12:13:48 PM |
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In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
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| User: "Pramesh Rutajit" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:08:21 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember
that when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
References.
--
Pramesh Rutajit - - remove tongue to reply.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 09:21:47 PM |
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In article <1439645.jNCFSp0Cal@192.168.1.1>, Pramesh Rutajit
<p2976221tongue@newsguy.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember
that when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
References.
"Evolution: The Fossils Still Say No" by Dr. Duane Gish
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
08 Nov 2005 04:08:58 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:21:47 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <1439645.jNCFSp0Cal@192.168.1.1>, Pramesh Rutajit
<p2976221tongue@newsguy.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember
that when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
References.
"Evolution: The Fossils Still Say No" by Dr. Duane Gish
I said science books books written by creationist. Your friend is
creating straw evolutionary theories and trying to pass them
off as real evolutionary theories. Please cite a book written by
a real 'evolutionist' writing about real evolutionary theories. It
is after all them you should be disputing not your friends
straw theories.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 10:08:26 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:21:47 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711051921470001@pm4-broad-5.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <1439645.jNCFSp0Cal@192.168.1.1>, Pramesh Rutajit
<p2976221tongue@newsguy.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember
that when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
References.
"Evolution: The Fossils Still Say No" by Dr. Duane Gish
What relationship does that book have to science?
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:27:26 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
Cite one that is not by a Creationist.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 09:22:14 PM |
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In article <m5lvm1peg7jd7mfdn0i3eg0vljkhcu9un8@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
Cite one that is not by a Creationist.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
too late---I already did.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
08 Nov 2005 08:42:05 AM |
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"too late---I already did."
Nope, you are so ignorant of even the cs and id side of things you don't
know that many advocates of id fully support evolution as the scientific
explanation of the pattern of species today, that's macro evolution before
you do your silly rant again, they just have questions baout ultimate
origins. The non creation book you push is one such example.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
08 Nov 2005 04:10:58 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:22:14 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <m5lvm1peg7jd7mfdn0i3eg0vljkhcu9un8@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
Cite one that is not by a Creationist.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
too late---I already did.
I saw you cite a book by a creationist. Note I said 'not by a
creationist'. I am not interested in their straw theories of
evolution.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 10:08:54 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:22:14 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711051922140001@pm4-broad-5.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <m5lvm1peg7jd7mfdn0i3eg0vljkhcu9un8@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
Cite one that is not by a Creationist.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
too late---I already did.
Which book was not by a creationist?
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 01:18:04 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:13:48 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711051013550001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <ff2vm1tnt5n6j5gr973bifuqabdpk1p9re@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:44:08 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050844080001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
...
I don't use the term revolution in relation to evolution. If you agree
that revolution and macro-evolution are the same thing--just remember that
when you see the term macro-evolution--define it as revolution.
But you do use the term macro-evolution in a sense that it is not used
at all in science.
It's used in some books related to science.
Not your definition. Yes, macro-evolution is used at times, but not in
the way you use it, though occassionally your use of it is not
incorrect.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 05:37:35 AM |
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On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 10:48:58 AM |
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In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 02:53:37 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Linneas. The man who classified species. Even before him, I suspect
Arabs were breeding horses and we know the earliest farmers
selectively breed new strains of wheat and barley circa 4-5,000 BCE
from archaeological remains (From Atlas of The World Ed Jeremy Black)
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Jason
Yes, that is correct but he did not produce any theories of how it
occurred as did Darwin. Leastways if he did he kept it to himself.
That's how science works one man or team building on the earlier
works of others.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 03:37:36 PM |
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In article <9sevm1du477ftohcvtlr1i22f409unu8sk@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Linneas. The man who classified species. Even before him, I suspect
Arabs were breeding horses and we know the earliest farmers
selectively breed new strains of wheat and barley circa 4-5,000 BCE
from archaeological remains (From Atlas of The World Ed Jeremy Black)
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Jason
Yes, that is correct but he did not produce any theories of how it
occurred as did Darwin. Leastways if he did he kept it to himself.
That's how science works one man or team building on the earlier
works of others.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
Yes, I agree with your last point. I just wish that they would consider
alternative theories and ideas.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 02:50:34 PM |
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"I just wish that they would consider alternative theories and ideas."
And cs should do likewise. They want to ram a specific notion down the
throat ofothers with their young earth noah flood scheme. They insist
doing round pegs in square holes to make their specific views about
religious matters fit. They start with genesis and reach for the carving
knives to work on the pegs. I say let the creation be an equal revelation
and tat revelation speaks for itself and doesn't require sc to explain its
particulars.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:04:02 PM |
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In article <436fbe19$0$76288$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I just wish that they would consider alternative theories and ideas."
And cs should do likewise. They want to ram a specific notion down the
throat ofothers with their young earth noah flood scheme. They insist
doing round pegs in square holes to make their specific views about
religious matters fit. They start with genesis and reach for the carving
knives to work on the pegs. I say let the creation be an equal revelation
and tat revelation speaks for itself and doesn't require sc to explain its
particulars.
Those in the CS movement do take evolution into consideration when they
write their books and conduct research. The term "evolution" is actually
in the title of some of those books. The staff members at CS headquarters
know as much about evolution as they know about creation science.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:42:35 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:04:02 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711051404030001@pm4-broad-40.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <436fbe19$0$76288$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
outsor@citynet.net wrote:
"I just wish that they would consider alternative theories and ideas."
And cs should do likewise. They want to ram a specific notion down the
throat ofothers with their young earth noah flood scheme. They insist
doing round pegs in square holes to make their specific views about
religious matters fit. They start with genesis and reach for the carving
knives to work on the pegs. I say let the creation be an equal revelation
and tat revelation speaks for itself and doesn't require sc to explain its
particulars.
Those in the CS movement do take evolution into consideration when they
write their books and conduct research. The term "evolution" is actually
in the title of some of those books. The staff members at CS headquarters
know as much about evolution as they know about creation science.
The ICR does not take anything into consideration that conflicts with
its stated religious bias
<http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=home&action=faq>.
Gish promised never to teach anything that was contrary to the
interpretation of the Bible that the ICR uses. Why should we trust them?
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:30:31 PM |
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(Jason) wrote in
news:jason-0711051337370001@pm4-broad-40.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
In article <9sevm1du477ftohcvtlr1i22f409unu8sk@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les
Hellawell <myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and
big brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe
was in a previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name)
that was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to
plants.
Linneas. The man who classified species. Even before him, I suspect
Arabs were breeding horses and we know the earliest farmers
selectively breed new strains of wheat and barley circa 4-5,000 BCE
from archaeological remains (From Atlas of The World Ed Jeremy Black)
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous
person was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his
famous book. Jason
Yes, that is correct but he did not produce any theories of how it
occurred as did Darwin. Leastways if he did he kept it to himself.
That's how science works one man or team building on the earlier
works of others.
Les,
Yes, I agree with your last point. I just wish that they would
consider alternative theories and ideas.
They do. Your favorite alternatives were considered and discarded many
years ago. Too bad your religion doesn't bother to keep up.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"A thief is more moral than a congressman;
when a thief steals your money, he doesn't demand you thank him."
-- Walter Williams
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 04:59:36 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:37:36 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <9sevm1du477ftohcvtlr1i22f409unu8sk@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Linneas. The man who classified species. Even before him, I suspect
Arabs were breeding horses and we know the earliest farmers
selectively breed new strains of wheat and barley circa 4-5,000 BCE
from archaeological remains (From Atlas of The World Ed Jeremy Black)
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Jason
Yes, that is correct but he did not produce any theories of how it
occurred as did Darwin. Leastways if he did he kept it to himself.
That's how science works one man or team building on the earlier
works of others.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
Les,
Yes, I agree with your last point. I just wish that they would consider
alternative theories and ideas.
Theories are attempts to explain evidence. If you present a new
theory you must present the evidence upon which it is based so
it can be checked as a reasonable synthethis of that evidence.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 11:12:15 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
The only genetic studies of the time were Mendel's.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants.
Darwin was not familiar with his work.
The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Then I have no idea who you are talking about. I also don't understand
why you say 'believer'.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 12:12:16 PM |
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In article <mk2vm11nl387hth6vqgteqre57s88jk3v0@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
The only genetic studies of the time were Mendel's.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants.
Darwin was not familiar with his work.
The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Then I have no idea who you are talking about. I also don't understand
why you say 'believer'.
I know that Mendel and Darwin both lived in the 19th century. Did Mendel
publish any books or were his experiments with plants mentioned in any sc.
journals prior to the time that Darwin's book was published?
I seem to recall learning that Darwin was familar with his work.
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 12:14:19 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:12:16 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711051012160001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <mk2vm11nl387hth6vqgteqre57s88jk3v0@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in alt.atheism
jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
The only genetic studies of the time were Mendel's.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants.
Darwin was not familiar with his work.
The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
Then I have no idea who you are talking about. I also don't understand
why you say 'believer'.
I know that Mendel and Darwin both lived in the 19th century. Did Mendel
publish any books or were his experiments with plants mentioned in any sc.
journals prior to the time that Darwin's book was published?
No.
I seem to recall learning that Darwin was familar with his work.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 12:39:31 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in sci.life-extension ,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net> wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Darwin surprised people, but he did not upset the scientific
establishment. It is hard to see from our viewpoint, but Darwin worked
on idea commonly discussed among scientists. He solved well known
problems. His work was revolutionary because his solution was so
all-encompassing, but people were looking for some solution.
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
What in the world does this mean? Are you saying that we should not
blame Darwin? Are you trying to accuse him of plagiarism (a common
creationist unsupported complaint)? Or just tell us that you don't
remember stuff? I suspect that you have greatly mangled the story of
Mendel, but I can't be sure. Evolution, as in change over time, was
suggested by several people over time. What Darwin did was to propose
that evolution caused Common Descent. Darwin also explained how this
evolution occurred: descent with modification and differential
reproductive success. That was quite revolutionary and no one else
came close to doing what Darwin did.
The closest was Wallace. And Wallace so respected Darwin that Wallace
sent his material to Darwin for his comments. Darwin had already
written many of those ideas and had discuss them with people. When
Darwin published no one, Wallace included, suggested plagiarism at
all.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 02:46:04 PM |
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In article <nd7vm1t7mcpjg984rr1d93bbj6itm644ui@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in sci.life-extension ,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net> wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Darwin surprised people, but he did not upset the scientific
establishment. It is hard to see from our viewpoint, but Darwin worked
on idea commonly discussed among scientists. He solved well known
problems. His work was revolutionary because his solution was so
all-encompassing, but people were looking for some solution.
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
What in the world does this mean? Are you saying that we should not
blame Darwin? Are you trying to accuse him of plagiarism (a common
creationist unsupported complaint)? Or just tell us that you don't
remember stuff? I suspect that you have greatly mangled the story of
Mendel, but I can't be sure. Evolution, as in change over time, was
suggested by several people over time. What Darwin did was to propose
that evolution caused Common Descent. Darwin also explained how this
evolution occurred: descent with modification and differential
reproductive success. That was quite revolutionary and no one else
came close to doing what Darwin did.
The closest was Wallace. And Wallace so respected Darwin that Wallace
sent his material to Darwin for his comments. Darwin had already
written many of those ideas and had discuss them with people. When
Darwin published no one, Wallace included, suggested plagiarism at
all.
Hello,
I did not use the term "plagiarism" in my post. I was more-or-less
agreeing that several people (eg Wallace) prior to Darwin advocated
evolution. Darwin should be given credit for putting all of the
information together (including his own discoveries and ideas) into book
form. I just disagree with the way that Darwin and other evolutionists
interpreted the data and discoveries. There is nothing wrong with making
use of data from various sources as long as proper credit is given. I
don't know whether or not he gave proper credit to all of the sources.
Jason
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 05:01:53 PM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:46:04 -0800, in sci.life-extension ,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) in
<jason-0711051246040001@pm4-broad-40.snlo.dialup.fix.net> wrote:
In article <nd7vm1t7mcpjg984rr1d93bbj6itm644ui@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:48:58 -0800, in sci.life-extension ,
jason@nospam.com (Jason) in
<jason-0711050848580001@pm1-broad-124.snlo.dialup.fix.net> wrote:
In article <mueum1576i9hhtom6d2dutaea4ungoue6j@4ax.com>, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Darwin surprised people, but he did not upset the scientific
establishment. It is hard to see from our viewpoint, but Darwin worked
on idea commonly discussed among scientists. He solved well known
problems. His work was revolutionary because his solution was so
all-encompassing, but people were looking for some solution.
I recall reading that there was a famous person (I forgot his name) that
was conducting all sorts of interesting experiments related to plants.
Darwin was very familar with his work related to plants. The famous person
was a believer in evolution even before Darwin wrote his famous book.
What in the world does this mean? Are you saying that we should not
blame Darwin? Are you trying to accuse him of plagiarism (a common
creationist unsupported complaint)? Or just tell us that you don't
remember stuff? I suspect that you have greatly mangled the story of
Mendel, but I can't be sure. Evolution, as in change over time, was
suggested by several people over time. What Darwin did was to propose
that evolution caused Common Descent. Darwin also explained how this
evolution occurred: descent with modification and differential
reproductive success. That was quite revolutionary and no one else
came close to doing what Darwin did.
The closest was Wallace. And Wallace so respected Darwin that Wallace
sent his material to Darwin for his comments. Darwin had already
written many of those ideas and had discuss them with people. When
Darwin published no one, Wallace included, suggested plagiarism at
all.
Hello,
I did not use the term "plagiarism" in my post. I was more-or-less
agreeing that several people (eg Wallace) prior to Darwin advocated
evolution. Darwin should be given credit for putting all of the
information together (including his own discoveries and ideas) into book
form. I just disagree with the way that Darwin and other evolutionists
interpreted the data and discoveries.
No, actually you don't. You object to the conclusions, not the
methods. You know nothing about the methods, you know nothing about
the evidence. But you don't like the results and so you claim that the
scientists did something wrong.
There is nothing wrong with making
use of data from various sources as long as proper credit is given. I
don't know whether or not he gave proper credit to all of the sources.
Shameful. Just shameful.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 08:13:56 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:37:35 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Yet the educated, the travelling leisured classes etc did. It was the
churched establishment that objected.
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
07 Nov 2005 05:39:47 AM |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:37:35 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On 06 Nov 2005 22:37:42 GMT, wrote:
"Evolution is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother"."
The creation science of 150 years ago was the establishment and big
brother and just like the earth is the center of the universe was in a
previous time. Both have had their time come and go.
Thats just being silly.
Sorry, , I misread your post
Darwin shocked and upset 'the establishment' with his theories
of how evolution occured. Up until that time very few even knew
evolution actually occurred.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Pramesh Rutajit" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
06 Nov 2005 10:31:22 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <c8dsm1lkn5gtdrm0s7km5v9nniq26sib4j@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:07:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0511052207210001@pm4-broad-31.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <v95rm15j8keh4vvf0t2r4m9bo4l0m6ibnc@4ax.com>, Just Cocky
<just@cocky.com> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:44:11 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
When I was in high school, the teachers spent more time teaching from
the textbooks than from prepared lectures.
This, in and of itself, probably explains to a significant degree the
source of your ignorance.
That's funny. I only wish my parents were rich enough to send me to a
Christian school where I could have had the freedom to learn about
creation science and evolution.
Creation Science is intentional ignorance. There is absolutely no
physical evidence to support this doctrine.
Instead, the high school biology
teacher tried to brainwash us by teaching us evolution. The brain-
washing worked well on most of the people in this newsgroup. I guess
that my bad teachers were not very good brainwashers.
It's about facts. You refuse to accept them and then insult all who do
accept the facts. Why?
For the same reasons that Galileo and Copernicus done the same thing. They
were of the opinion that they were right despite the fact that ...
Here let me correct you -- those scientist made a stand against creationism
which ultimately met with much success. Nevertheless, the creationist of
today would do more evil to scientists if they had it in their power to do
so but they are currently limited to dishonesty. Science is destroying
creationism and killing god year by year. One may safely make the claim
"God is Dead!"
--
Pramesh Rutajit - - remove tongue to reply.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution has become a state religion |
06 Nov 2005 02:50:52 PM |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 09:22:12 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
In article <c8dsm1lkn5gtdrm0s7km5v9nniq26sib4j@4ax.com>, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:07:21 -0800, in alt.atheism
(Jason) wrote in
<jason-0511052207210001@pm4-broad-31.snlo.dialup.fix.net>:
In article <v95rm15j8keh4vvf0t2r4m9bo4l0m6ibnc@4ax.com>, Just Cocky
<just@cocky.com> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:44:11 -0800, (Jason) wrote:
When I was in high school, the teachers spent more time teaching from the
textbooks than from prepared lectures.
This, in and of itself, probably explains to a significant degree the
source of your ignorance.
That's funny. I only wish my parents were rich enough to send me to a
Christian school where I could have had the freedom to learn about
creation science and evolution.
Creation Science is intentional ignorance. There is absolutely no
physical evidence to support this doctrine.
Instead, the high school biology
teacher tried to brainwash us by teaching us evolution. The brain-
washing worked well on most of the people in this newsgroup. I guess
that my bad teachers were not very good brainwashers.
It's about facts. You refuse to accept them and then insult all who do
accept the facts. Why?
For the same reasons that Galileo and Copernicus done the same thing. They
were of the opinion that they were right despite the fact that all of the
other scientists (and establishment) told them they were wrong.
They were observers who reported what they *actually* saw. Buy
yourself a telescope and you will be able to see what they saw as
well.
Evolution
is the modern day "establishment" or "big brother". It does not matter to
me that the majority of science professors disagree with me. The vast
majority of the people in America agree with me.
Have they observed what 'evolutionists' observed or just accepted
what they have been told without question? How many geological
field trips have you been on to study fossils in situ? How many has
the average USA'er. How many understand the evolutionary mrchanism
that we all possess and what makes us unique individuals. If flora
and fauna do not evolve, why do they ha | |
