| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" |
| Date: |
21 Apr 2004 10:46:47 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
---
Anti-War / Anti-Fascism protest: http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/awp.htm
"The stations that are showing Americans intentionally killing women
and children are not legitimate news sources. That is propaganda,
and that is lies." -- Senior military spokesman Mark Kimmitt, Nazi
"...since when is fighting invaders in your own country terrorism?" - Tempest
.
|
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| User: "Sverker Johansson" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 01:48:17 AM |
|
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<108fqpf8njtcbd5@corp.supernews.com>...
"Sverker Johansson" <lsj@hlk.hj.se> wrote in message
news:4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Macro evolution, no observable proof at all and you know it!
"Just" an overwhelming amount of evidence establishing
the reality of "macro"-evolution far beyond reasonable doubt.
"Observable proof" is a red herring, meaning that the creationist
is so obsessed with his evolution-denial that he'll keep on
screaming "no proof" until video footage of the entire
4-Gy sequence of ancestors producing modified descendants
in full graphic detail is available.
Best regards, HLK, Physics
Sverker Johansson U of Jonkoping
----------------------------------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
ATHEISM IS RELIGION
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH - adapted from
CREATIONISM IS SCIENCE George Orwell
.
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| User: "SD Anderson" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 04:26:27 PM |
|
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(Sverker Johansson) wrote in message news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change* withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
#113
.
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| User: "Roadrunner" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 05:40:18 PM |
|
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"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become macro
you have to gain new information.
.
|
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| User: "Gary Bohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 03:50:02 PM |
|
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"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of
science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed
fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which
attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I
will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole
debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become
macro
you have to gain new information.
Again I ask you , why does macroevolution need to GAIN information? Why can
it not be a change or reduction in information. What does Evolution have to
do with information theory at all?
I'll try a different tactic.
HOW DO I GET YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION?
--
Conservatism is not about tradition and morality, hasn't been for many
decades...It is about the putative biological and spiritual superiority of
the wealthy.
Greg Bear
Gary Bohn
.
|
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| User: "CHMC" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 04:32:41 PM |
|
|
"Gary Bohn" <garybohn@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:108j0hrgre8g451@corp.supernews.com...
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG>
wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of
science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject
to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed
fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which
attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I
will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is
*change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward,
just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole
debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has
been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become
macro
you have to gain new information.
Again I ask you , why does macroevolution need to GAIN information? Why
can
it not be a change or reduction in information. What does Evolution have
to
do with information theory at all?
I'll try a different tactic.
HOW DO I GET YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION?
That would take a miracle, which as a godless evilutionist you don't believe
in.
.
|
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| User: "Gary Bohn" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 04:46:40 PM |
|
|
"CHMC" <CHMC@CHMC.COM> wrote in message
news:c6c27l$18tm$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu...
"Gary Bohn" <garybohn@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:108j0hrgre8g451@corp.supernews.com...
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG>
wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of
science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject
to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing
as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed
fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which
attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then
I
will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is
*change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward,
just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea
in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole
debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose
of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has
been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become
macro
you have to gain new information.
Again I ask you , why does macroevolution need to GAIN information? Why
can
it not be a change or reduction in information. What does Evolution have
to
do with information theory at all?
I'll try a different tactic.
HOW DO I GET YOU TO ANSWER MY QUESTION?
That would take a miracle, which as a godless evilutionist you don't
believe
in.
You are probably right. I've been trying to get through to him for weeks,
but he's more intransigent than my kids were.
--
Conservatism is not about tradition and morality, hasn't been for many
decades...It is about the putative biological and spiritual superiority of
the wealthy.
Greg Bear
Gary Bohn
.
|
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|
|
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| User: "Sverker Johansson" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 01:36:43 AM |
|
|
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net>...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science.
True. The contortions of creationists are not science.
Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro.
Pretty close to my point. Creationists wish to deny any
connection between themselves and other animals.
But some aspects of evolution are so obvious that it's
pointless to try to deny it. So they need to invent a
fictious split between what they can't deny and what they
need to deny.
To become macro
you have to gain new information.
You mean, to _understand_ macro
you have to gain new information.
Best regards, HLK, Physics
Sverker Johansson U of Jonkoping
----------------------------------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
ATHEISM IS RELIGION
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH - adapted from
CREATIONISM IS SCIENCE George Orwell
.
|
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| User: "Roadrunner" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 04:53:14 AM |
|
|
"Sverker Johansson" <lsj@hlk.hj.se> wrote in message
news:4c9281ba.0404222239.57bebb8f@posting.google.com...
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:<6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net>...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG>
wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of
science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject
to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed
fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which
attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I
will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is
*change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward,
just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole
debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science.
True. The contortions of creationists are not science.
Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro.
Pretty close to my point. Creationists wish to deny any
connection between themselves and other animals.
So? Generally I have more compassion for animals than man, I certainly have
no problem with this at all.
But some aspects of evolution are so obvious that it's
pointless to try to deny it.
Empty words.
So they need to invent a
fictious split between what they can't deny and what they
need to deny.
You indeed dwell in religous assumptions.
To become macro
you have to gain new information.
You mean, to _understand_ macro
you have to gain new information.
What you need is evidence, you don't have it so you convince yourself it is
there anyway.
Best regards, HLK, Physics
Sverker Johansson U of Jonkoping
----------------------------------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
ATHEISM IS RELIGION
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH - adapted from
CREATIONISM IS SCIENCE George Orwell
.
|
|
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|
| User: "Brian F. King" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 01:38:38 PM |
|
|
(Sverker Johansson) wrote:
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote:
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote:
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science.
True. The contortions of creationists are not science.
Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro.
Pretty close to my point. Creationists wish to deny any
connection between themselves and other animals.
But some aspects of evolution are so obvious that it's
pointless to try to deny it. So they need to invent a
fictious split between what they can't deny and what they
need to deny.
To become macro
you have to gain new information.
You mean, to _understand_ macro
you have to gain new information.
Apparently, he hasn't even used Excel. 8-)
Best regards, HLK, Physics
Sverker Johansson U of Jonkoping
----------------------------------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
ATHEISM IS RELIGION
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH - adapted from
CREATIONISM IS SCIENCE George Orwell
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "SD Anderson" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 02:52:56 PM |
|
|
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net>...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become macro
you have to gain new information.
That evolution has occured, that is to say, less complex life forms
have been replaced by more complex versions over time is established
fact: See the fossil record.
The mechanism Darwin proposed, works. The means by which genetic
material can be altered was subsequently discovered by others.
Transitional fossils ***have*** repeat ***have*** been found. See the
Talk.Origins site. Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
To say what can occur in the lab cannot occur in the field over a
period of hundreds of millions of years even when the principle of
natural selection would push in favor of it happening is absurd.
.
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| User: "Roadrunner" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
26 Apr 2004 10:09:03 AM |
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"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404231156.6e5a4552@posting.google.com...
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message
news:<6UXhc.90557$dP1.275129@newsc.telia.net>...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404221329.2f00e6e1@posting.google.com...
lsj@hlk.hj.se (Sverker Johansson) wrote in message
news:<4c9281ba.0404220312.1fe1a56b@posting.google.com>...
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:<108elr957sp697e@corp.supernews.com>...
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG>
wrote
in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of
science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject
to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed
fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which
attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I
will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is
*change*
withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward,
just
change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in
sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole
debate
no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
You want a distinction ?
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has
been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become
macro
you have to gain new information.
That evolution has occured, that is to say, less complex life forms
have been replaced by more complex versions over time is established
fact: See the fossil record.
The mechanism Darwin proposed, works. The means by which genetic
material can be altered was subsequently discovered by others.
Transitional fossils ***have*** repeat ***have*** been found. See the
Talk.Origins site. Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
To say what can occur in the lab cannot occur in the field over a
period of hundreds of millions of years even when the principle of
natural selection would push in favor of it happening is absurd.
And so you simply 'assume' all the above, and we got a new religion. You
are not critical enough by far.
.
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| User: "SD Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
27 Apr 2004 01:33:46 AM |
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"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<PF9jc.57268$mU6.234919@newsb.telia.net>...
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has
been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become
macro
you have to gain new information.
That evolution has occured, that is to say, less complex life forms
have been replaced by more complex versions over time is established
fact: See the fossil record.
The mechanism Darwin proposed, works. The means by which genetic
material can be altered was subsequently discovered by others.
Transitional fossils ***have*** repeat ***have*** been found. See the
Talk.Origins site. Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
To say what can occur in the lab cannot occur in the field over a
period of hundreds of millions of years even when the principle of
natural selection would push in favor of it happening is absurd.
And so you simply 'assume' all the above, and we got a new religion. You
are not critical enough by far.
Think again: These are not assumptions but conclusions drawn from
the evidence. Major difference: you can trace how the conclusion is
reached.
Now, a religious set of assumptions would be like "Don't need to
investigate, the scripture explains it."
.
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| User: "Augray" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
26 Apr 2004 01:25:36 PM |
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:09:03 +0000 (UTC), "Roadrunner"
<pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in
<PF9jc.57268$mU6.234919@newsb.telia.net>:
"SD Anderson" <102250.1425@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ad847902.0404231156.6e5a4552@posting.google.com...
[snip]
That evolution has occured, that is to say, less complex life forms
have been replaced by more complex versions over time is established
fact: See the fossil record.
The mechanism Darwin proposed, works. The means by which genetic
material can be altered was subsequently discovered by others.
Transitional fossils ***have*** repeat ***have*** been found. See the
Talk.Origins site. Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
To say what can occur in the lab cannot occur in the field over a
period of hundreds of millions of years even when the principle of
natural selection would push in favor of it happening is absurd.
And so you simply 'assume' all the above, and we got a new religion. You
are not critical enough by far.
This, from someone who won't criticize Hovind. But let's get specific:
What *specific* criticisms do you have against evolution?
.
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| User: "Hank" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
26 Apr 2004 01:51:36 PM |
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Roadrunner wrote:
<snip>
To say what can occur in the lab cannot occur in the field over a
period of hundreds of millions of years even when the principle of
natural selection would push in favor of it happening is absurd.
And so you simply 'assume' all the above, and we got a new religion. You
are not critical enough by far.
RR, why do you keep posting silly statements like these? You just end up
looking like some peevish child being contrary just to get attention. Nobody
believes the things you say. Why do you bother making these silly statments?
--
Assimilate a pitiful little species like you? I think not! - Q of Borg
.
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| User: "Derek Potter" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
24 Apr 2004 06:30:17 AM |
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SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
.
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| User: "SD Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
24 Apr 2004 01:33:27 PM |
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Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<btjk8055f35agq76tbv1r1n277fihcep41@4ax.com>...
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
That's because mutability involves stastical means and since mean
and kind are opposites, means and kinds must also be mutually
exclusive.
(Egads! I *can* reason like a creationist!!!!!)
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
24 Apr 2004 07:34:37 PM |
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Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
It's hard to cross a nonexistent line, isn't it?
--
John Wilkins
john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au http://www.wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
.
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| User: "Derek Potter" |
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| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
25 Apr 2004 03:32:12 AM |
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|
John Wilkins gets an answer from me...
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
It's hard to cross a nonexistent line, isn't it?
It's impossible. Thus it's impossible to cross the kinds line.
.
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| User: "Klaus Hellnick" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
25 Apr 2004 12:54:10 PM |
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"Derek Potter" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:0utm80pklms1hsf9foumd9qbpu2nuf12gd@4ax.com...
John Wilkins gets an answer from me...
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
It's hard to cross a nonexistent line, isn't it?
It's impossible. Thus it's impossible to cross the kinds line.
It's impassable. It's impossible to pass: impassible.
Klaus
(Zork 3 anyone?)
.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
25 Apr 2004 06:32:13 AM |
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|
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
John Wilkins gets an answer from me...
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
It's hard to cross a nonexistent line, isn't it?
It's impossible. Thus it's impossible to cross the kinds line.
There's a creationist argument I had never considered...
--
John Wilkins
john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au http://www.wilkins.id.au
"Men mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss"
- Francis Bacon
.
|
|
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| User: "Derek Potter" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
25 Apr 2004 07:50:12 AM |
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|
John Wilkins gets an answer from me...
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
John Wilkins gets an answer from me...
Derek Potter <me@privacy.net> wrote:
SD Anderson gets an answer from me...
Mutability across the species line has been
observed and can be done in the lab.
But mutability across the kinds line has not. :)
It's hard to cross a nonexistent line, isn't it?
It's impossible. Thus it's impossible to cross the kinds line.
There's a creationist argument I had never considered...
Do you happen to have shrink-wrapped model for this kind of reasoning?
:) The b-s model or summat?
.
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| User: "RobinGoodfellow" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 06:30:48 PM |
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|
Roadrunner wrote:
[snip]
Definitions:
Micro-evolution: evolution for which the evidence is so
overwhelming that even the ICR can't deny it.
Macro-evolution: evolution which is only proven beyond
reasonable doubt, not beyond unreasonable doubt.
Micro-evolution: a term invented by creationists for the purpose of
misleading potential converts into thinking the principle of natural
selection is incapable of breaking the Species barrier.
That's no science. Creationists basically base this on that what has been
observed, and so you have to split it into micro and macro. To become macro
you have to gain new information.
Oh, goody! RoadRunner just learned a new word! Would you share your
knowledge with the rest of us? What is this "information", RoadRunner?
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
23 Apr 2004 01:00:53 AM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all.
You flatter me. Science "allows" no such non existant distinction.
There's only the directly observed fact of evolution. Denial is stupid.
---
Anti-War / Anti-Fascism protest: http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice/awp.htm
"The stations that are showing Americans intentionally killing women
and children are not legitimate news sources. That is propaganda,
and that is lies." -- Senior military spokesman Mark Kimmitt, Nazi
"...since when is fighting invaders in your own country terrorism?" - Tempest
.
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| User: "AC" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 12:57:54 AM |
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On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:23:00 +0000 (UTC),
Randy Story <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change* withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
Time for you to pick up a dictionary.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
.
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| User: "Hank" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 01:11:46 PM |
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Randy Story wrote:
"Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild" <FredR@SkepticTank.REMOVE.ORG> wrote in
message news:108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com...
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then I will
simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see is *change* withins
kinds or families. Change is not necessarly upward or downward, just change.
The word change and evolution are definitely not the same idea in sceintific
circles. Yes Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate no
one would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
What do you think is the difference between change and evolution? Please
explain in detail, and why you think "change" is possible but "evolution" is
not.
--
Assimilate a pitiful little species like you? I think not! - Q of Borg
.
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| User: "Phil Roberts" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 01:48:34 PM |
|
|
With total disregard for any kind of safety measures "Randy Story"
<rstorynw@olypen.com> leapt forth and uttered:
Since you wont allow the distinction between micro & macro then
I will simply say that there is no evolution at all. All we see
is *change* withins kinds or families.
The term "kinds" has no place in science.
Change is not necessarly
upward or downward, just change. The word change and evolution
are definitely not the same idea in sceintific circles. Yes
Fred, all things change, gee if that was the whole debate no one
would have a problem. Time to rethink!!
Well *****-a-doodle-doo. I guess you're right and all those millions
of learned men over all the years who devoted their lives to the
research and progression of the study of biological evolution are
totally wrong.
Step up, claim your prize. You just single-handledly slapped down
one of the most widely accepted scientific principles in the known
world. And you did it without the benefit of ANY actual education
whatsoever! I for one am impressed.
--
Phil Roberts | Dork Pretending To Be Hard | http://www.flatnet.net/
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Evolution is a proven fact ...is it not ??? |
22 Apr 2004 01:01:34 AM |
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In article <108eg66puqfn29d@corp.supernews.com>,
(Fredric L. Rice de Rothschild) wrote:
DaveinIllinois@webtv.net wrote:
"Scientists who go about teaching that (macro)
evolution is a fact of life are great con-men
Written by a religious kook speaking outside of his area of science.
In fact evolution is a directly observed phenomena not subject to
belief or disbelief. At the same time there's no such thing as
"macro evolution." There is only evolution: both the observed fact
of evolution and a number of closely related theories which attempt
to describe the observed phenomena.
Try opening a text book once instead of blindly following what
your cult masters program into you.
Macro evolution = the great granddaddy of all strawmen.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, but in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
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