Religions > Atheism > Re: Existence of Pesher not known until Dr. Thiering discovered it?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"David Christainsen" |
| Date: |
07 Sep 2003 01:00:21 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Existence of Pesher not known until Dr. Thiering discovered it? |
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<d2b5b.742$Mb2.74243@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
David Christainsen wrote:
A starting point for Thiering credibility is the date of composition
of 1QpHab, a primary source for the Teacher of Righteousness and his
rival, written at a time when the Romans were a terrible and
destructive force in the land.
What specific time is that and what specific events warrant that description? And
what specifically is the "land" refered to and what were its boundaries?
...
Friends,
--->ancestral lands of 12 tribes of Israel - see map in Thiering's 1992 book.
QUICK QUIZ - why do Mt 19:28, Temple Scroll (DSS), Rev 7:5 refer to
the 12 tribes and why does NT refer to Paul as belonging to the tribe
of Benjamin etc. when the 12 tribes had not historically existed for centuries?
The correct answer is startling...Does anybody have a clue?
Best,
David Christainsen
Wellesley, Mass USA
Moderator of Qumran/Christian Origins Internet Forum (70 members)
Dr. Barbara Thiering is my star member
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin
.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Existence of Pesher not known until Dr. Thiering discovered it? |
07 Sep 2003 08:27:38 PM |
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David Christainsen wrote:
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<d2b5b.742$Mb2.74243@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
David Christainsen wrote:
A starting point for Thiering credibility is the date of composition
of 1QpHab, a primary source for the Teacher of Righteousness and his
rival, written at a time when the Romans were a terrible and
destructive force in the land.
What specific time is that and what specific events warrant that description? And
what specifically is the "land" refered to and what were its boundaries?
...
Friends,
--->ancestral lands of 12 tribes of Israel - see map in Thiering's 1992 book.
QUICK QUIZ - why do Mt 19:28, Temple Scroll (DSS), Rev 7:5 refer to
the 12 tribes and why does NT refer to Paul as belonging to the tribe
of Benjamin etc. when the 12 tribes had not historically existed for centuries?
The correct answer is startling...Does anybody have a clue?
The correct answer is there never were twelve tribes.
--
2003 August 12: Jewish terrorist in US is the money man for a
deal to sell antiaircraft missile to shoot down US airliners.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 2818
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| User: "David Christainsen" |
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| Title: Re: Existence of Pesher not known until Dr. Thiering discovered it? |
08 Sep 2003 09:16:57 AM |
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Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:<eWQ6b.20807$875.846814@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
David Christainsen wrote:
...
Friends,
--->ancestral lands of 12 tribes of Israel - see map in Thiering's 1992 book.
QUICK QUIZ - why do Mt 19:28, Temple Scroll (DSS), Rev 7:5 refer to
the 12 tribes and why does NT refer to Paul as belonging to the tribe
of Benjamin etc. when the 12 tribes had not historically existed for centuries?
The correct answer is startling...Does anybody have a clue?
The correct answer is there never were twelve tribes.
Friends,
The correct answer ---
Herod the Great's scheme of initiation into a new form
of Judaism was immensely successful. Jews everywhere were
willing to join the worldwide society. At the solemn ceremony
of full initiation Diaspora Jews paid for membership, like
the hellenistic mystery cults, to be saved at the Last
Judgment. Peace offerings, much later called "indulgences",
accompanied by a declaration of freedom from sin, would also
be paid once a year at promotion thru successive stages
of membership.
Starting the first generation of the millenium in 41 BC,
the aim of gaining 600,000 members to form a New Israel was
to be achieved by a project of evangelism lasting 40 years.
The missionaries not only gave the initiates a stone
and a new name, but also a badge with an emblem of the
particular order they were joining. The original 12,000
in Judea were divided into "tribes", called after the names
of the twelve tribes of Israel (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah,
and so on).
They were actually religious orders, with varying kinds
of discipline and political outlook. Their emblems reflected
their image: one order used a sheep, meaning that they were
village Essenes, followers of the shepherd king David; another
used a dove, meaning that they stood for peace; another, who
were workers, used an ox.
When the missionaries handed over these badges in exchange
for the half-shekel, it could be said that they were "selling
oxen and sheep and doves", and turning religion into a "shop".
70 years later there came into the mission a descendant
of one of the founders, Jesus the son of Joseph the son of Heli.
He took the strongest objection to selling religious salvation
for money, teaching that it should be given freely, by grace.
Taking a whip, he overturned the tables of the moneychangers,
and drove out those who were "selling oxen and sheep and doves".
From this time on, there would be no initiation fees, only
freewill gifts. Religion, he taught, was not a financial
racket, but a gift from God.
For this, and for many other protests against the Herodian
system, he was expelled from the mission.
Best,
David Christainsen
Wellesley, Mass USA
Moderator of Qumran/Christian Origins Internet Forum (70 members)
Dr. Barbara Thiering is my star member
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Existence of Pesher not known until Dr. Thiering discovered it? |
08 Sep 2003 01:11:42 AM |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
The correct answer is there never were twelve tribes.
....and five newsgroups that you crossposted to:
soc.history.ancient
soc.religion.quaker
alt.religion.christian.episcopal
alt.atheism
alt.religion.christian.baptist
Please stop doing that.
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