| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"penitent leper" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2004 09:31:16 PM |
| Object: |
Re: EXODUS FICTION |
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
- pl -
.
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
31 Mar 2004 11:41:39 PM |
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"penitent leper" <bastaschs@peak.org> wrote in message
news:k63n60lq8ehdcqi0fedthiecolbm4c3obu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
- pl -
If what you say were true, *how* would you tell if it *was* literal? By its
wording? If so, how? :-)
Biff
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| User: "penitent leper" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 12:44:14 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:41:39 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
"penitent leper" <bastaschs@peak.org> wrote in message
news:k63n60lq8ehdcqi0fedthiecolbm4c3obu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
- pl -
If what you say were true, *how* would you tell if it *was* literal? By its
wording? If so, how? :-)
For the twelfth time: by analysis of its literary type.
Obviously Genesis, for example, is a creation myth. How can it be
a literal report?
- pl -
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 01:04:00 AM |
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"penitent leper" <bastaschs@peak.org> wrote in message
news:3fen60pm2rbn91oekkg9v3939mkq00bv25@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:41:39 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
"penitent leper" <bastaschs@peak.org> wrote in message
news:k63n60lq8ehdcqi0fedthiecolbm4c3obu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying
factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not
need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape
your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on
the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
- pl -
If what you say were true, *how* would you tell if it *was* literal? By
its
wording? If so, how? :-)
For the twelfth time: by analysis of its literary type.
Obviously Genesis, for example, is a creation myth. How can it be
a literal report?
- pl -
How else? By the supernatural or powers we don't understand. But you
already knew this? ;-)
Biff
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| User: "Rafeek" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 04:36:24 PM |
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:44:14 -0800, penitent leper
<bastaschs@peak.org> wrote:
If what you say were true, *how* would you tell if it *was* literal? By its
wording? If so, how? :-)
For the twelfth time: by analysis of its literary type.
Obviously Genesis, for example, is a creation myth. How can it be
a literal report?
Forgive me if you've already taken a position on this, but... Do you
take ANY part of the bible to be literally true?
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| User: "Rafeek" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 04:33:30 PM |
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:31:16 -0800, penitent leper
<bastaschs@peak.org> wrote:
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
Hmm.. the definition doesn't qualify the word "reality" with
"metaphorical" the way you do. Seems like your usage of the word
"true" is inaccurate.
What is "metaphorical reality" anyway?
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
31 Mar 2004 10:47:04 PM |
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penitent leper wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
Everybody is thinking this so let me say it.
Bwahahahahahahahahahah!
There.
What nonsense. Either these tales are based on nothing more than legend or
myth at best, or they are based on historical happenings.But archaeology
has thoroughly debunked the idea that there was a 430 year Egyptian
captivity, that there was an exodus, a 40 years wandering or a bloody,
genocidal invasion of Canaan lead by Moses and Joshua, son of Nun.
Its a mayth and no more consistant with metaphysical reality any more than
Winnie the Pooh, Hary Potter or the Star Wars Trilogy.
This stuff did not happen anymore than Jar Jar Binks helped fight the evil
Trade Confederation. No matter how metaphorical true these tales are to
enthusiasts.
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "penitent leper" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 12:41:19 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:47:04 -0500, wbarwell
<wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
penitent leper wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:42:28 GMT, Rafeek <spam@spam.com> wrote:
You're making the fundamentalist mistake of identifying factualness
with truthfulness. The Exodus and other biblical stories do not need
to be historically and factually accurate in order for them to be
powerfully true. You are permitting fact-fundamentalism to shape your
definition of truth.
erm....what?
"Powerfully true?" That doesn't mean anything, you made that up on the
spot.
Wrong. It's merely true that my gf looks good in blue. It's
powerfully true that she loves me.
If you're using "true" to mean another word, JUST USE THE OTHER
WORD.
No, "true" means "true", despite your dyslexia.
Here's what "true" means, according to the dictionary:
true ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr)
adj. tru·er, tru·est
Consistent with fact or reality; not false or erroneous.
So then, when you say that Exodus is "powerfully true," you mean that
it is powerfully consistent with fact?
Read your own damn definition, which says "consistent with fact or
reality". Exodus is consistant with metaphorical reality, but not
always with historical fact.
Everybody is thinking this
Only the morons.
so let me say it.
Bwahahahahahahahahahah!
There.
There. You've aligned yourself with the morons.
What nonsense. Either these tales are based on nothing more than legend or
myth at best, or they are based on historical happenings.
Two limited, arbitrary choices of your own invention.
But archaeology
has thoroughly debunked the idea that there was a 430 year Egyptian
captivity, that there was an exodus, a 40 years wandering or a bloody,
genocidal invasion of Canaan lead by Moses and Joshua, son of Nun.
Irrelevant and immaterial, which you'd know if you'd bother to read
my many replies.
Its a mayth and no more consistant with metaphysical reality any more than
Winnie the Pooh, Hary Potter or the Star Wars Trilogy.
You're confusing categories, but you're having fun with it. Myth in
the sense I'm speaking of is completely consistent with man's
relationship to the sacred, which has nothing to do with secular works
such as Pooh, Potter, et al.
This stuff did not happen anymore than Jar Jar Binks helped fight the evil
Trade Confederation. No matter how metaphorical true these tales are to
enthusiasts.
The point which eludes fact fundamentalists like you is that I'm not
claiming it necessarily happened as objective quantifiable "fact" in
external reality. Its truth is metaphorical, not physical. The truth
of the parable of the Good Samaritan has nothing to do if there
"really was" a flesh and blood Samaritan.
- pl -
.
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