| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"William" |
| Date: |
01 Apr 2004 03:42:37 AM |
| Object: |
Re: EXODUS FICTION |
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:58:46 -0800, penitent leper
<bastaschs@peak.org> wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:53:56 GMT, (William)
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:55:48 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in
marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came,
and destroyed them all.
Are you saying that this NT scripture and Jesus are part of the "noisy
minority of Christians who are biblical literalists" ?
Good one. Both Jesus and Paul were biblical literalists.
Bad one. Neither JC nor Paul were biblical literalists. They put
their own interpretations on a variety of scriptures, and Jesus flatly
contradicted biblical stories about Moses. The nonliteral
interpretation of the Hebrew Bible was already a widely practiced
phenomenon in JC's and Paul's day, and they partook of it.
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of what
he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and,
'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in
the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him,
'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."
And:
Luke 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from
the dead.'"
The writer of Luke believed in the historical Adam:
Luke 3:38 . . the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the
son of God.
As did Jude:
Jude 1:14 It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation
from Adam prophesied . .
Paul believed in the historical Adam and Eve according to the Genesis
account:
1 Tim 2:13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not
deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
And:
Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses
Jesus believed in the historical Noah and the biblical account of the
flood:
Matt 24:37-38 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the
Son of man.For as in those days before the flood they were eating and
drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah
entered the ark
As did Peter:
1 Peter 3:20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in
the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that
is, eight persons, were saved through water.
And:
2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved
Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he
brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
He goes on to show that he believes in the literal truth of the
account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomor'rah
The writer of Hebrews believed in the literal truth of the account of
Noah.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet
unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his
household;
The NT writers believed in the exodus from Egypt:
Acts 13:17-18 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made
the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with
uplifted arm he led them out of it. And for about forty years he bore
with them in the wilderness.
The NT is full of those who took the accounts in the OT as literally
true. Or perhaps you think that the NT accounts themselves are not
literally true. A lot of Christians have solved the problem by taking
that line.
William
.
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| User: "Tiger" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 03:56:41 AM |
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(William) wrote in
news:406be9b1.2085107@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:58:46 -0800, penitent leper
<bastaschs@peak.org> wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:53:56 GMT,
(William) wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:55:48 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com>
wrote:
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they
were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the
ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Are you saying that this NT scripture and Jesus are part of the
"noisy minority of Christians who are biblical literalists" ?
Good one. Both Jesus and Paul were biblical literalists.
Bad one. Neither JC nor Paul were biblical literalists. They
put
their own interpretations on a variety of scriptures, and Jesus
flatly contradicted biblical stories about Moses. The nonliteral
interpretation of the Hebrew Bible was already a widely practiced
phenomenon in JC's and Paul's day, and they partook of it.
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of
what he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother';
and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
That's not proof of Jesus' belief. Jesus could just have easily said,
"Remember the boy who cried wolf," if he had been familiar with the
story. Recalling story details does not imply a belief in the
historicity of said story.
This goes for most of your other examples below.
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read
in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said
to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the
God of Jacob'? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living;
you are quite wrong."
And:
Luke 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise
from the dead.'"
The writer of Luke believed in the historical Adam:
Luke 3:38 . . the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.
As did Jude:
Jude 1:14 It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh
generation from Adam prophesied . .
Paul believed in the historical Adam and Eve according to the
Genesis account:
1 Tim 2:13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was
not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a
transgressor.
And:
Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses
Jesus believed in the historical Noah and the biblical account of
the flood:
Matt 24:37-38 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of
the Son of man.For as in those days before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the
day when Noah entered the ark
As did Peter:
1 Peter 3:20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited
in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a
few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
And:
2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved
Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he
brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
He goes on to show that he believes in the literal truth of the
account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomor'rah
The writer of Hebrews believed in the literal truth of the account
of Noah.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as
yet unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his
household;
The NT writers believed in the exodus from Egypt:
Acts 13:17-18 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and
made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and
with uplifted arm he led them out of it. And for about forty years
he bore with them in the wilderness.
The NT is full of those who took the accounts in the OT as
literally true. Or perhaps you think that the NT accounts
themselves are not literally true. A lot of Christians have solved
the problem by taking that line.
You've not shown this. I can just as easily say, "remember
Pinnochio!" when cautioning someone against lying.
--
Tiger
[Insert humorous, clever or profound quote here]
.
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| User: "William" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 08:54:34 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:56:41 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote:
telige@mail.clara.fl.com (William) wrote
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of
what he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother';
and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
That's not proof of Jesus' belief. Jesus could just have easily said,
"Remember the boy who cried wolf," if he had been familiar with the
story. Recalling story details does not imply a belief in the
historicity of said story.
This goes for most of your other examples below.
Interesting that you jumped in there. The very next one has Jesus
using the historical event of God speaking to Moses and arguing on the
basis of the historical existence of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Christians try to distance themselves from the literal accounts in the
bible because they are embarrassed by them. But they end up chopping
out or re-writing so much of it that the whole thing is now falling
apart
William
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| User: "Tiger" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 09:22:52 AM |
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(William) wrote in
news:406c387c.390260@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:56:41 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote:
(William) wrote
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of
what he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother';
and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely
die';
That's not proof of Jesus' belief. Jesus could just have easily
said, "Remember the boy who cried wolf," if he had been familiar
with the story. Recalling story details does not imply a belief
in the historicity of said story.
This goes for most of your other examples below.
Interesting that you jumped in there. The very next one has Jesus
using the historical event of God speaking to Moses and arguing on
the basis of the historical existence of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
You mean this?
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read
in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said
to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the
God of Jacob'? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living;
you are quite wrong."
Notice that Jesus doesn't refer to the *event* but to the *story.*
"Have you not read in the book of Moses..." he asks. Clearly *not* an
airtight example of Jesus' belief in the historicity of the story.
Christians try to distance themselves from the literal accounts in
the bible because they are embarrassed by them. But they end up
chopping out or re-writing so much of it that the whole thing is
now falling apart
Well, that's a nice straw man.
--
Tiger
[Insert humorous, clever or profound quote here]
.
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| User: "William" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 10:36:35 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:22:52 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote:
telige@mail.clara.fl.com (William) wrote in
news:406c387c.390260@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:56:41 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote:
telige@mail.clara.fl.com (William) wrote
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of
what he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother';
and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely
die';
That's not proof of Jesus' belief. Jesus could just have easily
said, "Remember the boy who cried wolf," if he had been familiar
with the story. Recalling story details does not imply a belief
in the historicity of said story.
This goes for most of your other examples below.
Interesting that you jumped in there. The very next one has Jesus
using the historical event of God speaking to Moses and arguing on
the basis of the historical existence of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
You mean this?
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read
in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said
to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the
God of Jacob'? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living;
you are quite wrong."
Notice that Jesus doesn't refer to the *event* but to the *story.*
"Have you not read in the book of Moses..." he asks. Clearly *not* an
airtight example of Jesus' belief in the historicity of the story.
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised. He cited
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God of the living, as
evidence that they had died and were now raised. If you still want to
insist that he saw them as fictional characters then I'm afraid I
can't help you.
William
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| User: "Tiger" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 12:20:26 PM |
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(William) wrote in
news:406c5105.6671507@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:22:52 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid> wrote:
(William) wrote in
news:406c387c.390260@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:56:41 GMT, Tiger <Tiger@box.invalid>
wrote:
(William) wrote
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth
of what he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother';
and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely
die';
That's not proof of Jesus' belief. Jesus could just have easily
said, "Remember the boy who cried wolf," if he had been familiar
with the story. Recalling story details does not imply a belief
in the historicity of said story.
This goes for most of your other examples below.
Interesting that you jumped in there. The very next one has
Jesus using the historical event of God speaking to Moses and
arguing on the basis of the historical existence of Abraham,
Isaac and Jacob.
You mean this?
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not
read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how
God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob'? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the
living; you are quite wrong."
Notice that Jesus doesn't refer to the *event* but to the *story.*
"Have you not read in the book of Moses..." he asks. Clearly
*not* an airtight example of Jesus' belief in the historicity of
the story.
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised. He cited
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God of the living, as
evidence that they had died and were now raised. If you still want
to insist that he saw them as fictional characters then I'm afraid
I can't help you.
No, you certainly cannot help me. You do, however, work well with
straw.
--
Tiger
[Insert humorous, clever or profound quote here]
.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 11:32:45 AM |
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William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God
of the living, as evidence that they had died and were
now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as fictional
characters then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "Gomez Addams" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 04:41:01 PM |
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If thou knewest thy donkey from a cave you would know that Jesus is not a
fictional character. Read Josephus, written about 75AD, "Antiquities of the
Jews", Book 18, Ch. 3, vs.3. By talking firmly of things you know nothing
of, you demonstrate your ignorance to the world.
--
Gomez Addams
*"No one has ever changed their mind in the history of Usenet." *
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RtidnUbil7ygz_HdRVn-jw@sti.net...
William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God
of the living, as evidence that they had died and were
now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as fictional
characters then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "David V." |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 05:11:59 PM |
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Gomez Addams wrote:
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote
William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being
raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the
God of the living, as evidence that they had died
and were now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for
them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as
fictional characters then I'm afraid I can't help
you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
If thou knewest thy donkey from a cave you would know
that Jesus is not a fictional character.
If you lived in the real world, you would know that the
bible is a myth and the characters mentioned within are
fictional.
Read Josephus...
A proven interpolation. Try again when you get an education.
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
02 Apr 2004 12:14:38 PM |
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If you knew your history, you'd realize that Josephus' handwriting or
language all of a sudden changed drastically in his alleged minute
mentioning of Jesus. This clearly points to Christians' dishonestly
doctoring his writings. But more importantly than that, he wasn't even born
until after Jesus' supposed life so how could he be proof of him existing at
all? :-)
Biff
"Gomez Addams" <Gomez&Morticia@Thing.con> wrote in message
news:1U0bc.7724$yN6.3325@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If thou knewest thy donkey from a cave you would know that Jesus is not a
fictional character. Read Josephus, written about 75AD, "Antiquities of
the
Jews", Book 18, Ch. 3, vs.3. By talking firmly of things you know nothing
of, you demonstrate your ignorance to the world.
--
Gomez Addams
*"No one has ever changed their mind in the history of Usenet." *
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RtidnUbil7ygz_HdRVn-jw@sti.net...
William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God
of the living, as evidence that they had died and were
now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as fictional
characters then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
02 Apr 2004 11:37:51 PM |
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Biff wrote:
If you knew your history, you'd realize that Josephus' handwriting or
language all of a sudden changed drastically in his alleged minute
mentioning of Jesus. This clearly points to Christians' dishonestly
doctoring his writings. But more importantly than that, he wasn't even
born until after Jesus' supposed life so how could he be proof of him
existing at all? :-)
Handwriting?
The earliest manuscript of Josephus we have goes back to 10th century CE.
We have no handwritten manuscript of Josephus.
The other thing many scholars noticed was, early apologists did not
know of this verse or they would have used it. Josephus was pretty well
known at the time. That makes it rather unlikely it was in original
manuscripts around the time they were written and sold.
and the words interupt the flow of the sentences involved and
ca be deleted and leave no obvious holes.
Cheerful Charlie
Biff
"Gomez Addams" <Gomez&Morticia@Thing.con> wrote in message
news:1U0bc.7724$yN6.3325@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If thou knewest thy donkey from a cave you would know that Jesus is not a
fictional character. Read Josephus, written about 75AD, "Antiquities of
the
Jews", Book 18, Ch. 3, vs.3. By talking firmly of things you know nothing
of, you demonstrate your ignorance to the world.
--
Gomez Addams
*"No one has ever changed their mind in the history of Usenet." *
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RtidnUbil7ygz_HdRVn-jw@sti.net...
William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God
of the living, as evidence that they had died and were
now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as fictional
characters then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
03 Apr 2004 10:13:29 AM |
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"wbarwell" <wbarwell@munnnged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:406e64f2$0$17096$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com...
Biff wrote:
If you knew your history, you'd realize that Josephus' handwriting or
language all of a sudden changed drastically in his alleged minute
mentioning of Jesus. This clearly points to Christians' dishonestly
doctoring his writings. But more importantly than that, he wasn't even
born until after Jesus' supposed life so how could he be proof of him
existing at all? :-)
Handwriting?
WB,
handwriting n.
1.. Writing done with the hand.
2.. The writing characteristic of a particular person.
Guess which definition I meant! :-)
Biff
The earliest manuscript of Josephus we have goes back to 10th century CE.
We have no handwritten manuscript of Josephus.
The other thing many scholars noticed was, early apologists did not
know of this verse or they would have used it. Josephus was pretty well
known at the time. That makes it rather unlikely it was in original
manuscripts around the time they were written and sold.
and the words interupt the flow of the sentences involved and
ca be deleted and leave no obvious holes.
Cheerful Charlie
Biff
"Gomez Addams" <Gomez&Morticia@Thing.con> wrote in message
news:1U0bc.7724$yN6.3325@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If thou knewest thy donkey from a cave you would know that Jesus is not
a
fictional character. Read Josephus, written about 75AD, "Antiquities of
the
Jews", Book 18, Ch. 3, vs.3. By talking firmly of things you know
nothing
of, you demonstrate your ignorance to the world.
--
Gomez Addams
*"No one has ever changed their mind in the history of Usenet." *
"David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RtidnUbil7ygz_HdRVn-jw@sti.net...
William wrote:
Jesus was answering a point about the dead being raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus say those things.
He cited Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God being the God
of the living, as evidence that they had died and were
now raised.
The authors of the NT had jesus make those claims for them.
If you still want to insist that he saw them as fictional
characters then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Does it matter what a fictional character claimed about
other fictional characters?
--
David V.
UDP for WebTV
--
"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun
in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to
Canada. So I chose to better myself and learn to fly airplanes."
- George W. Bush May 1984 to the Houston Chronicle
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Biff" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 08:28:51 AM |
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Of course you're correct, William. PL and his like grasp at straws when
claiming certain parts of the bible can be determined as myth outside of
that book describing them as parables..
Biff
"William" <> wrote in message
news:406be9b1.2085107@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:58:46 -0800, penitent leper
<bastaschs@peak.org> wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:53:56 GMT, (William)
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:55:48 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were
given in
marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood
came,
and destroyed them all.
Are you saying that this NT scripture and Jesus are part of the "noisy
minority of Christians who are biblical literalists" ?
Good one. Both Jesus and Paul were biblical literalists.
Bad one. Neither JC nor Paul were biblical literalists. They put
their own interpretations on a variety of scriptures, and Jesus flatly
contradicted biblical stories about Moses. The nonliteral
interpretation of the Hebrew Bible was already a widely practiced
phenomenon in JC's and Paul's day, and they partook of it.
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of what
he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and,
'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
And:
Mark 12:26-27 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in
the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him,
'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?
27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."
And:
Luke 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from
the dead.'"
The writer of Luke believed in the historical Adam:
Luke 3:38 . . the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the
son of God.
As did Jude:
Jude 1:14 It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation
from Adam prophesied . .
Paul believed in the historical Adam and Eve according to the Genesis
account:
1 Tim 2:13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not
deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
And:
Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses
Jesus believed in the historical Noah and the biblical account of the
flood:
Matt 24:37-38 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the
Son of man.For as in those days before the flood they were eating and
drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah
entered the ark
As did Peter:
1 Peter 3:20 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in
the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that
is, eight persons, were saved through water.
And:
2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved
Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he
brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
He goes on to show that he believes in the literal truth of the
account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomor'rah
The writer of Hebrews believed in the literal truth of the account of
Noah.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet
unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his
household;
The NT writers believed in the exodus from Egypt:
Acts 13:17-18 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made
the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt, and with
uplifted arm he led them out of it. And for about forty years he bore
with them in the wilderness.
The NT is full of those who took the accounts in the OT as literally
true. Or perhaps you think that the NT accounts themselves are not
literally true. A lot of Christians have solved the problem by taking
that line.
William
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| User: "William" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
02 Apr 2004 07:20:22 AM |
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On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:28:51 -0800, "Biff" <nospam@aol.com> wrote:
Of course you're correct, William. PL and his like grasp at straws when
claiming certain parts of the bible can be determined as myth outside of
that book describing them as parables.
Given a bit longer and they will claim the whole thing is a myth (many
leading theologians and even bishops are leading the way) so they
won't have to cherry pick any more.
William
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: EXODUS FICTION |
01 Apr 2004 08:55:58 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:42:37 GMT, (William)
cross posted
toalt.politics.usa.republican,alt.religion.christian,alt.atheism,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.republicans,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.christianity,alt.agnosticism,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.recovery.religion:
Jesus believed in the historical Moses and the literal truth of what
he said:
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and,
'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die';
William, sorry to dissapoint you. Your quotes carry no more weight
than quoting Harry Potter.
Mark is not proof of Jesus, just like quoting Hermione is not proof of
Harry.
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