| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jong Kim" |
| Date: |
22 Jun 2007 10:33:50 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Fred Phelps |
"Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister"
<nonreplyable@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
On Jun 8, 5:03 pm, <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 8, 11:29 am, "Jong Kim" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Maynard Keynes (Newton, the Man):
Newton's extensive anti-Trinitarian pamphlets are, in my judgement,
the most interesting of his unpublished papers.
Do you think...
Does Fred Phelps love Catholics?
Gonna answer your question to ltl.
"RetroProphet" <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote
regarding my post titled "Billy Graham":
This is one of the most pretentious and
bombastic things I have ever read.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
I can imagine Graham thinkng as Abraham Lincoln did
when he was called upon by a Quaker preacher who
insisted that she was conveying to him God's will
that he abolish slavery immediately:
"I have neither time nor disposition to enter into
discussion with the Friend, and end this occasion
by suggesting for her consideration the question whether,
if it be true that the Lord has appointed me to do the work
she has indicated, it is not probable that he would have
communicated knowledge of the fact to me as well as to her."
I doubt that Billy Graham was even made aware that I tried to forward him
the message that he really ought to read. If he were to read it, my position
is that he would disregard the truth, having already sold himself too much
into the dark side, a male prostitute in the realm of religion.
The hypocrite Hellbilly Graham makes Abe Lincoln look like James Clerk
Maxwell (arguably one of the most exemplary of mankind after Jesus Christ
and His Prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Art Bulla) in comparison.
Graham is that wicked, not that Abe Lincoln was a good man. Neither
Graham nor the late Jerry Falwell is, in truth, any different from Fred
Phelps
(http://www.godhatesfags.com). All three are 'Christian minister' servants
of
the devil. Minister? Nay, they serve themselves and Lucifer, their true god.
THE TOPEKA CAPITAL-JOURNAL
A letter from a son who left
This is a letter Mark Phelps wrote last year to citizens of Topeka and
northeast Kansas. It is printed at his request. It was received at The
Capital-Journal on May 19, 1993. Contacted by telephone in California July
7, 1994, Mark Phelps said the letter still represents his feelings. He also
cautioned people against taking the letter out of context, saying there is
"gentleness" in the context of the letter and a hope that the community can
better understand Fred Phelps based on what the letter contains.
"Many people have been asking me, over the past several weeks, about my
father. They want to know what I think about him and 'What is he really
like?' People's interest in what I think baffles me, but after careful
consideration, I decided to respond.
What is he like? Well, it's been 19 years since I left home, but his
behavior still appears to be the same. He considers his environment to be
against him without admitting, acknowledging or taking responsibility for
how he contributes to that. He likes to show himself as being moral,
pro-family, pro-Bible, but his actions just don't add up to that. I believe
in God and the Bible, and my father's behavior doesn't fit the description
of behavior that would show in the life of one who loves God; behavior
characteristics such as Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness,
Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control. Instead, my father's behavior
characterizes, I believe, Hate, Outbursts of Wrath, Contention, Jealousy,
Vengefulness, Misery, Harshness, and Selfish ambition. He mis-states the
truth about his own behavior, about others, about the Bible, with apparent
ease and regularity. He behaves with a viciousness the likes of which I have
never seen. He accepts no genuine accountability in his life and is subject
to no one. His lifestyle betrays the sacred trust of what a pastor, husband,
father and grandfather should be. I suppose if a comparison were made
between the life of Jesus Christ and my father, there would not be much to
compare.
I also realize that my father is a very unstable person who is determined to
hurt people. And because he is so bound to be hateful and hurtful, and
because he's so untrustworthy, I believe it's a good idea to respond to him
with caution much like the caution used when dealing with a rattlesnake or a
mad dog. You see, the causes that he crusades for, including the Bible, are
not the issue here. He simply wants to hate and to have a forum for his
hate. If the causes he focuses on were the issue, that is, if they really
meant something to him in his heart and he meant for the things he does to
be for the good, his behavior would not be what it is. He would not betray
his message with his behavior. But, when he needs to, to vent his hate, he
readily goes outside the bounds of any previously stated 'value' or 'cause'
he may have supported. He experiences no moral dilemma when it comes to
doing what he wants to do. If it weren't the homosexuals, it would be
something else.
Yet checks and balances on his behavior are appropriate, on the part of the
community, in order to at least confine his destructive behaviors and to
limit his influence. I believe that Topekans are making a good effort to try
and stop him and should continue to do so. He can seem very intimidating. He
can use foul language and come across with a booming voice to the community,
but the truth is, like the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls the curtain back,
instead of this big powerful individual, it's only a small, pathetic old
man.
I feel sorry for my father as I would for anyone who displays this kind of
hate and evil viciousness. These can only be the manifestations of tortured,
injured and agonizing souls."
-- Mark W. Phelps
http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps03.shtml
http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/102401_phelps.shtml
An Overview of Phelps
By Tim Richardson
....
He carried a strong presence into the courtroom and garnered several
civil rights awards for representing minorities.
In recent years, Phelps is a changed man.
A Topeka lawyer testified in 1995 that he wanted to hit the Rev. Fred Phelps
after the anti-homosexual minister directed derogatory comments at him.
Other Topekans, regardless of whether they wanted to deck the man, have
noticed his presence in the community. The spotlight has expanded in recent
years, bringing national attention to a controversial man with Topeka roots.
The disbarred lawyer and his clan from Westboro Baptist Church, 3701 S.W.
12th, travel the nation to picket. With signs in hand, they are often
spotted at Gage Park, The Topeka Capital-Journal and other areas of town.
The picketing hasn't slowed since the newspaper published a special report
about the group almost a decade ago.
Phelps made headlines when he and others from WBC picketed the funeral of
Matthew Shepard, the gay man beaten to death in Wyoming.
"I found it almost impossible to believe that human beings could be so
brutal and vicious to a hurting family," said the Rev. Jerry Falwell.
Phelps says he brought "a little sanity" to Shepard's funeral.
Did he worry about hurting Shepard's family? "Yes, I worry about that," he
said. "But my mom's words come back to me all the time. She'd say a little
hurt now saves a big hurt later. I'm talking about living people who are
headed straight for hell."
....
Phelps recently appeared in "Rolling Stone" magazine, as well. This isn't
the first time Phelps has been featured nationally, but recent high-profile
pickets seem to have rekindled national interest. Phelps has said he hadn't
read any of the articles, but he appreciates the coverage.
In 1993, tax-payers learned they footed the $26.69-an-hour bill to protect
WBC protestors.
....
The Kansas Court of Appeals reversed a disorderly conduct conviction of a
WBC picketer, saying "it's not a crime in America to say something
offensive," a church lawyer said.
A Riley County district judge signed an order saying there wasn't probable
cause to issue warrants for criminal defamation against Phelps. The question
of criminal defamation is linked to fax messages sent to Shawnee County
Sheriff Dave Meneley.
In the second case, the court of appeals ruled that a judge made an
erroneous instruction to the jury in a May 1996 trial in which Westboro
member Jonathan B. Phelps was convicted of remarks allegedly made to two
women.
http://cjonline.com/indepth/phelps/stories/080394_phelps01.shtml
The Transformation of Fred Phelps
By Joe Taschler and Steve Fry
Hate as a human emotion has been present throughout the ages. It has
manifested itself in genocide and war. About three years ago, hate began
manifesting itself in pickets and facsimile machines in Topeka, the heart of
middle America. As the decade marches on, so does the hate, unchecked. The
blunt hatred startles most people when they first experience it. They find
out the hating is being done in the name of God. They're speechless. The
whole idea takes their breathe away.
The broker of hatred is the Rev. Fred Waldron Phelps Sr.
Most of his hate is focused on homosexuals for whom he advocates the death
penalty. Seven days a week, Phelps and his followers carry picket signs
throughout the city. The signs declare "God hates fags" and "Fags are worthy
of death," among other things. The pickets began more than three years ago
at Gage Park, a 160-acre park in the west-central part of the city. The park
features the city's zoo and dome-enclosed tropical rain forest. Thousands of
people visit the park each year.
The Phelps pickets have continually expanded and have popped up in such
places as New York, Washington, D.C., and San Francisco. Additionally, the
pickets are taking place throughout Kansas as well as the Kansas City
metropolitan area. Phelps and his clan seem to be everywhere.
Phelps' message of hate isn't limited to picket signs. Phelps and his
followers also send facsimiles -- faxes -- to hundreds of fax machines in
homes and offices around the nation. But most of the faxes are sent to homes
and businesses in Topeka and Kansas. The Phelps faxes almost always attack
someone or something in the city or state. Phelps has used the faxes to
label the mayor of Topeka the "ANTICHRIST." The faxes repeatedly refer to a
city council woman as a "Jezebelian switch-hitting *****." The faxes also
call the county's district attorney a "gestapo," "forked-tongued she-devil,"
and a "dirt-dumb, butt-ugly and demon-possessed vixen." The DA campaigned on
a platform of prosecuting Phelps and has carried through on her promises,
leading to a bitter feud between the two.
All of the information contained in the faxes is protected by free speech,
Phelps says. He has received some encouragement from the federal courts with
regards to his faxes.
Phelps and his followers picket the funerals of homosexuals in Topeka. The
Phelps group also travels throughout the country to picket the funerals of
openly-gay celebrities or persons who have died of AIDS.
....
In January 1947, Phelps abandoned plans for West Point and enrolled in Bob
Jones University, a non-denominational Christian university then located in
Cleveland, Tenn. The school offers degrees ranging from two-year associate's
degrees to doctoral degrees. The university teaches a literal interpretation
of the Bible. In 1983, the Internal Revenue Service revoked the university's
tax exemption because it accused the school of practicing racial
discrimination. Years later, Phelps renounced the university as "racist."
By the summer of 1947, Fred Phelps had switched his religious denomination
to Baptist.
He had become zealous, devout, a fiery orator and an eccentric, said the
Rev. B.H. McAlister, a Southern Baptist minister who ordained Phelps.
As part of the Rocky Mountain mission assignment in summer 1947, Phelps and
two other students from Bob Jones University were to seek out a
fundamentalist church, convert non-believers to Christianity and steer the
converts to the Baptist church. The three men chose Vernal, a town in
northeast Utah about 130 miles east of Salt Lake City. During the day, the
trio went door to door seeking converts, then conducted tent revivals at
night, preaching on the radio. McAlister was pastor of the First Baptist
Church in Vernal at the time.
The mission assignment fit Phelps' nature and his knack for conflict: He was
a Baptist working to convert people who were predominantly and stauchly
Mormon.
Pitching a tent in the city park of Vernal, the missionaries drew only 20 to
25 people a night. Then one of the three, Ed Nelson, ran a newspaper
advertisement that asked, "What's Wrong with the Mormon Church?"
"Boy, did we get a crowd," said Nelson, 69, now a travelling Baptist
evangelist based in Denver. Nelson recalled the events that night: Tensions
rose between the missionaries and the crowd of 200 spectators, many of them
Mormons disputing the missionaries' message. The crowd stormed the speaking
platform, and one spectator grabbed Phelps, who had been the song leader
that night. "'Get your filthy mitts off me,'" Nelson quoted Phelps as
saying. Phelps pulled his fist back. "I was afraid he was going to punch one
of those guys," Nelson said.
Nelson turned off the light to avoid a fight.
Nelson last saw Phelps in 1952 or 1953. "The last time I saw him he thought
there were only a handful to be saved and he was one of them."
When it came time for Phelps' ordination, "we put him through the paces
because of his young age," McAlister said. "We feared for him because of his
youth." Phelps was 17, at least three years younger than most ministers when
ordained.
McAlister, who has helped ordain hundreds, described the ordination process:
An examination board of 10 to 20 ministers asks a candidate questions about
doctrine and scripture. Not everyone passes.
Phelps did. He was ordained Sept. 8, 1947, and then returned to Bob Jones
University as a Southern Baptist minister.
Today, Nelson and McAlister share Phelps' anti-homosexual sentiments. But,
"I question his wisdom as to his being so zealous," McAlister said.
Despite being ordained as a Southern Baptist minister, Phelps touts himself
as a Primitive Baptist preacher and an Old School preacher. No rules prevent
him from switching denominations, said Mark Coppenger, an official with the
Southern Baptist Convention in Nashville, Tenn.
"I was ordained by the First Baptist Church of Vernal, Utah," Phelps says.
"There is no such thing as being ordained by the Southern Baptists. You are
ordained by the Baptist church. I went to that church, and we liked each
other. They baptized me in a mountain stream that was cold and ordained me."
Phelps says he hasn't missed a Sunday preaching lesson since. "So the hunch
was good," he said. "If the call was good, it never goes away."
Street Preacher
Phelps left Bob Jones University without graduating.
From Bob Jones, Phelps headed north to the Prairie Bible Institute in Three
Hills near Calgary, Alberta. After two semesters, Phelps moved to California
in April 1949, where he earned a two-year degree in 1951 from John Muir
College in Pasadena.
Phelps' gift at being a malcontented street corner preacher started getting
national attention 43 years ago, long before he and his followers descended
on Topeka's Gage Park.
The June 11, 1951 issue of Time Magazine included a story on Phelps, then a
Pasadena street preacher who lectured lunch-hour students about "sins
committed on campus by students and teachers." The sins Phelps cited
included promiscuous petting, evil language, profanity, cheating, teachers'
filthy jokes in classrooms and pandering to the lusts of the flesh.
One day, police approached Phelps and escorted him to a police car, telling
him his removal from the street was for his own protection because the crowd
was becoming hostile. Police chatted with him, then released him after the
crowd broke up. Phelps was back out preaching almost immediately after his
run-in with the police in Pasadena, returning to preach from the lawn of a
sympathizer near the school. His 1951 behavior was a prophecy of his
behavior in Topeka in the 1990s: When he is challenged or told he is wrong,
his resolve to continue becomes as tough and cold as tempered steel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
By Phelps's own admission, he never dated, and had no interest in members of
the opposite sex. He played in the school band (cornet, later switching to
bass horn), was on the track team (he specialized in hurdling), and worked
as a field reporter for the high school newspaper. Also, during his time in
high school he became a Golden Gloves boxer, going to state twice and
winning by KO both times. In his graduation-year yearbook, his classmates
predicted that he would end up as a professional boxer.
In 1947, Phelps enrolled as a student at the fundamentalist Bob Jones
University, which he left after three semesters.[9] He then spent two
semesters at the Prairie Bible Institute. In 1951, he earned a two-year
degree from John Muir College.[10]
Civil Rights Attorney
Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University in 1962, and founded the
Phelps Chartered law firm in 1964. The first notable cases were of a civil
rights nature. "I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws of this
town," he says.[8] Phelps' daughter was quoted as saying, "We took on the
Jim Crow establishment, and Kansas did not take that sitting down. They used
to shoot our car windows out, screaming we were ***** lovers," and that the
Phelps law firm made up one-third of the state’s federal docket of
civil-rights cases.[11]
Phelps took cases on behalf of African American clients alleging
discrimination by school systems, and a predominately black American Legion
post which had been raided by police, alleging racially-based police abuse.
Phelps' law firm obtained settlements for some clients.[12] Phelps also sued
then-President Ronald Reagan over Reagan's appointment of a U.S. ambassador
to the Vatican, alleging this violated separation of church and state. The
case was dismissed by the U.S. district court.[12] Phelps' law firm, staffed
by himself and family members also represented non-white Kansans in
discrimination actions against Kansas Power and Light, Southwestern Bell,
and the Topeka City Attorney, and represented two female professors alleging
discrimination in Kansas universities.[11]
In the 1980s Fred Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City
Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the NAACP
for his work on behalf of black clients.[13]
Phelps Chartered also won one of the first reverse discrimination cases.[14]
14. http://www.phelpschartered.com/FirmHistory.htm
Disbarment
A formal complaint was filed against Fred W. Phelps, Sr. on November 8, 1977
by the Kansas State Board of Law Examiners for his conduct during a lawsuit
against a court reporter named Carolene Brady. Brady had failed to have a
court transcript ready for Phelps on the day he asked for it; though it did
not affect the outcome of the case for which Phelps had requested the
transcript, Phelps still requested $22,000 in damages from her. In the
ensuing trial, Phelps called Brady to the stand, declared her a hostile
witness, and then cross-examined her for nearly a week, during which he
accused her of being a "*****," tried to introduce testimony from former
boyfriends whom Phelps wanted to subpoena, and accused her of a variety of
perverse sexual acts, ultimately reducing her to tears on the stand.[15]
Phelps lost the case; according to the Kansas Supreme Court:
The trial became an exhibition of a personal vendetta by Phelps against
Carolene Brady. His examination was replete with repetition, badgering,
innuendo, belligerence, irrelevant and immaterial matter, evidencing only a
desire to hurt and destroy the defendant. The jury verdict didn't stop the
onslaught of Phelps. He was not satisfied with the hurt, pain, and damage he
had visited on Carolene Brady.[15]
In an appeal, Phelps prepared affidavits swearing to the court that he had
eight witnesses whose testimony would convince the court to rule in his
favor. Brady, in turn, obtained sworn, signed affidavits from the eight
people in question, all of whom said that Phelps had never contacted them
and that they had no reason to testify against Brady; Phelps had committed
perjury.[15]
On July 20, 1979, Fred Phelps was permanently disbarred from practicing law
in the state of Kansas,[15] but continued to practice in the Federal courts.
In 1985, nine Federal judges filed a disciplinary complaint against Phelps
and five of his children, alleging false accusations against the judges. In
1989, the complaint was settled, with Phelps agreeing to permanently stop
practicing in Federal court, and two of his children suspended for periods
of six months and one year.[16]
....
During 1993–94 interviews with the Topeka Capital-Journal, the four Phelps
children (out of thirteen, Mark, Nate, Katherine and Dotty) who had left the
church asserted that their father's religious beliefs were either
nonexistent to begin with or have dwindled down to nearly nothing. They
insist that Westboro actually serves to enable a paraphilia of Phelps,
wherein he is literally addicted to hatred. This statement would serve as
the inspiration for the title of the book about Phelps' life, which was
never published due to fear of lawsuit, but became public when the author
sued the publisher, who maintained that it was a work for hire and therefore
could not be taken to another publisher, attaching a copy of the manuscript
to the suit as an exhibit thus making it public record. The record was
eventually sealed, although the document had already been released over the
Internet.
Two of his sons, Mark and Nate, insist that the church is actually a
carefully planned cult that allows Phelps to see himself as a demigod,
wielding absolute control over the lives of his family and congregants,
essentially turning them into slaves that he can use for the sole purpose of
gratifying his every whim and acting as the structure for his delusion that
he is the only righteous man on Earth.[17] In 1995, Mark Phelps wrote a
letter to the people of Topeka to this effect; it was run in the Topeka
Capital-Journal.[18] The children's claim is partially backed up by B.H.
McAllister, the Baptist minister who ordained Phelps. McAllister said in a
1993 interview that Phelps developed a delusion wherein he was one of the
few people on Earth worthy of God's grace and that everyone else in the
world was going to Hell, and that salvation or damnation could be directly
obtained by either aligning with or opposing Phelps. As of 2006, Phelps
maintains this belief.[17] Phelps and his family picket up to approximately
six locations every day, including many in Topeka and some events farther
afield. On Sundays, up to 15 churches may receive pickets.[19]
....
Fidel Castro
Phelps has repeatedly championed Fidel Castro for Castro's stance against
homosexuality; in 1998 Harper's magazine published a letter Phelps sent to
Castro in which he praised Castro and lambasted the U.S. In 2004, when a
pro-homosexual Cuban refugee announced plans to travel to Cuba, Phelps sent
another letter to Castro "warning" him of the man's plans and requesting
travel visas for a group of WBC congregants so that they could follow the
refugee around Havana with signs bearing anti-U.S. and anti-homosexual
slogans.
Saddam Hussein
In 2003, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote
Hussein a letter praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only
Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely
and openly preached on the streets."[40] Furthermore, he stated that he
would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one
week. Hussein granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to
Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of
Baghdad holding signs condemning Bill and Hillary Clinton and anal sex.[41]
After Saddam was hanged, Phelps released a video commentary that stated that
both Saddam Hussein and Gerald Ford (who had died the same week) were now in
Hell.
Arrests
United States
Phelps was first arrested in 1951 and found guilty of misdemeanor battery
after attacking a Pasadena police officer. He has since been arrested for
assault, battery, threats, trespassing, disorderly conduct, contempt of
court, and several other charges; each time, he (along with Westboro and its
other members) has filed suit against the city, the police, and the
arresting officers. Though he has been able to avoid prison time, he has
been convicted more than once:[42][43][44]
* 1994: Contempt of court[42]
* 1994: Two counts of assault (reduced to disorderly conduct
on appeal)[43]
Phelps' 1995 conviction for assault and battery carried a five-year prison
sentence, with a mandatory 18 months to be served before he became eligible
for parole. Phelps fought to be allowed to remain free until his appeals
process went through. Days away from being arrested and sent to prison, a
judge ruled that Phelps had been denied a speedy trial and that he was not
required to serve any time.[43][44]
Canada
Phelps has also claimed that his congregation, along with him, have been
arrested in Canada for hate speech.[45] This prompted the founding of
"Godhatescanada.com." He has also strongly opposed the legalization of
same-sex marriage in Canada and Canada's Supreme Court.
People targeted by Fred Phelps
Since the early 1990s, Phelps has targeted several individuals and groups in
the public eye for criticism by the Westboro Baptist Church after their
deaths. Prominent examples include President Ronald Reagan, Supreme Court
Chief Justice William Rehnquist, National Football League star Reggie White,
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Islam and Muslims, murdered
college student Matthew Shepard, the late children's television host Fred
Rogers, Jews [46], Catholics, Scandinavians, US soldiers killed in Iraq and
the Irish. He has also targeted Joseph Estabrook School in Lexington,
Massachusetts. He has recently stated that he will target the late Rev.
Jerry Falwell's funeral.[47]
Shirley Phelps, a daughter of Fred Phelps, appeared on Fox News, defending
the WBC and attacking homosexuality.[48]
In a recent video sermon, Phelps targeted comedians Jon Stewart and Stephen
Colbert, claiming that they are among the "scoffers and mockers" referred to
in the Bible, and used them as evidence that we are in the "last of the Last
Days." He was particularly critical of Colbert's Emmy Awards show
performance, in which Colbert, tongue-in-cheek, called the Hollywood
audience "Godless sodomites."[49] He compared Colbert's comments to the
"blaspheming comics" of Sodom and Gomorrah and referred to both Colbert and
Stewart as "sacrilegious buffoons."
Phelps' followers have repeatedly protested the University of Kansas School
of Law's graduation ceremonies. They have also, on at least one occasion
(May 1999), protested the graduation ceremonies for the University of North
Carolina at Chapel Hill.
....
To counter the Phelps' protests at funerals of soldiers, a group of
motorcycle riders has formed the Patriot Guard Riders to provide a
nonviolent, volunteer buffer between the protesters and mourners.[50]
In addition, when Phelps and his Westboro followers have shown up at Walter
Reed Army Medical Center or other locales in the Washington area, they have
been actively protested by the DC Chapter of Free Republic, a conservative
website.
On June 5, 2006, Albert Snyder, the father of Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder,
who was killed in the line of duty on March 3, 2006, and whose funeral was
picketed by Phelps, sued Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, Inc., in
the U.S. District Court in Maryland, for defamation, invasion of privacy,
and intentional infliction of emotional distress. The lawsuit also involves
accusations made on Phelps's websites that Mr. and Mrs. Snyder "raised
[Matthew] for the devil" and taught him "to defy his Creator, to divorce,
and to commit adultery".[68]
Legitimacy
Because his activism has provoked opposition, some have speculated that
Phelps might be an elaborate prankster, Dadaist performance artist, or agent
provocateur. Such speculation has come from conservatives who believe he is
consciously trying to discredit social conservatives, and some speculate
that Phelps is a plant aimed at giving the anti-gay movement a bad name.[69]
Author Keith R. Wood suggested in a 2004 column that Phelps' protests are
being funded by NAMBLA and draw unfavorable attention toward Christians.
This, he said, makes Christians afraid to speak about morality as they would
appear to be idiots.[70]
Phelps' estranged son Mark has said Phelps "simply wants to hate and to have
a forum for his hate. . . . If it weren't the homosexuals, it would be
something else."[71]
===
Ah, the Rev. Fred Phelps and Sir Isaac Newton (who had a Fred Phelps-like
personality as well as being a closet homosexual and a gainsayer of the
Godhood of Jesus Christ, though he maintained that there is God), two of
Babylon's useful monkeys. If it were possible, I would lock these two
monkeys in a room and let them slay each other. (Freddie Kruger should be
able to kill the gay Teuton, being an ex-boxer, unless the latter brought in
a secret Newtonian weapon.)
Dire Straits:
It's a mystery to me
The game commences
For the usual fee
Plus expenses
Confidential information
It's in a diary
This is my investigation
It's not a public inquiry
I go checking out the report
Digging up the dirt
You get to meet all sorts
In this line of work
Treachery and treason
There's always an excuse for it
And when I find the reason
I still can't get used to it
36 For, verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim,
wherefore they shall be plucked out.
37 Behold, I, the Lord, have made my church in these last days like unto a
judge sitting on a hill, or in a high place, to judge the nations.
38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all
things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not
apostles and prophets shall be known.
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 64:36 - 39)
What a Fred Phelps does, he violently alienates men and women, both the
honorable and the wicked, from Christ, all in the name of Christ!
What a Billy Graham does, he preaches an entirely false Christ, in a 'nice'
way, putting men and women at ease in Babylon, or into the Relaxwell mood as
they say, putting the masses to sleep while their world is being torn apart.
Jerry Falwell did a bit of both, just not so obnoxiously as the Rev.
Freddie.
Clearly, Satan has different tools to work with.
===
You can hear it on the radio anywhere you go
It's steady as the rhythm of a clock
It cuts through the noise of the city life
It won't seem to go away
It's the devil in disguise I tell you no lies
When the road I travel starts to unravel
Every which way it goes
The beat starts to press on my bullet proof vest
And my high turns out to be low
I'm playing in a rock and roll band
~~JJ Cale, America's Troubadour
Or in other words, Billy Graham is The Beatles and Fred Phelps is Slayer,
a thrash/death metal group. Two different ways of distracting the masses
but assisting in the same ultimate goal of the anti-Christ.
Dire Straits:
It ain't what they call rock and roll.
===
No wonder James Clerk Maxwell chose to not involve himself with such and
such prominent anti-Evolution organizations of his day, not that Evolution
is true science or that he believed in Evolution in any way.
Freeman Dyson, Professor Emeritus of Physics at
Institute of Advanced Study, Princeton, NJ
(Why is Maxwell's Theory so hard to understand?):
How did it happen that Maxwell's theory was so widely ignored? After all,
Maxwell was not like his contemporary Gregor Mendel, a monk working in an
obscure monastery garden in Bohemia. Maxwell was a famous professor,
director of the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge, a leading figure in the
British scientific community. As an indication of his high standing, he was
president of Section A (mathematical and physical sciences) of the British
Association for the Advancement of Science when the association held its
annual meeting at Liverpool in 1870. He gave a presidential address in
Liverpool which was published in volume 2 of the recently founded journal
"Nature". The style of his address shows us why his theory was not taken
seriously. One might have expected that he would take the opportunity
provided by the presidential platform to proclaim to the world the
importance of the discoveries that he had made five years earlier. He did
nothing of the kind. He was absurdly and infuriatingly modest.
http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_jj_cale/
"He's too embarrassed to say he did it himself, and he really is a humble
man," comments Virgin's Wooler. "Sometimes, he wonders what all the fuss
is about and plays down his contribution to music.
http://www.jjcale.net/steve/rocksteady.html
JJ: To really be successful at it, you have to, well, you know, hustle, I
guess you might say. As a songwriter, that put me in the fine print and I
got paid for it, but I didn't have to get out and really work hard; I got to
do what I like to do, which is mess around with recording equipment, play
the guitar and write songs and I could do that at home, in my trailer or rec
ording studios, in privacy.
JJ Cale:
Many loves in a lifetime, they seem to go astray
Many people come and go, they never seem to stay
Sometimes I kid myself, then I realise
I'm just living in an artificial paradise
A hundred times, my hopes and dreams are blown into the air
A thousand times, it always seems no one is really there
Then I know I'm fooling myself, I'm not so wise
I'm just living in an artificial paradise
Plastic state of mind, superficial clothes
Living in a vacuum, close to zero
Sometimes I kid myself, then I realise
I'm just living in an artificial paradise.
http://www.jjcale.net/steve/rocksteady.html
Although Cale is a fan of electronic gadgetry, he has a refreshing habit of
admitting that "I try all of these gadgets so that the songs sound
different. Of course they don't -- it always ends up sounding like me." And
while, after all this time , he has to be regarded as an expert songwriter
in the traditional sense, he still can't write songs to order: "I'm not a
poet, so I never write the lyrics out and try to add music to the words. If
anything I write the music first and add some words to that, or write the
words and the music at the same time. As the years went by and technology
came in I used a lot of electronics. I even used a Casio MG guitar synth
lately. I try and manufacture recordings to sound spontaneous. Then some
things are spontaneous. There are some cuts on the new album, and there are
songs on every album I do, where it's just me and the guys playing and we
turn on the tape recorder. You name it, I've tried it, from acoustic guitar
and just singing by myself, to the full band stuff, to electronic
manipulating and everything."
"As far as songwriting goes, I wasn't really influenced by anybody. It's one
of those things where you start off with a clean sheet of paper. There's a
lot of songs I like but you can't really copy them because they've already
been done. A lot of the time when I'm writing it's the chord sequence that
comes first, I'll write a little riff, then try and put some words to it.
Sometimes it just comes together easily, I'll be sitting with a guitar
trying to write some stuff, and just start dreaming up a song, where it all
works at the same time. I used to do a lot of recording where I'd cut the
music and then add the words later when I'd finished them, but now I try to
finish the song as soon as possible so you know what you're working with. It
speeds up the process."
http://starling.rinet.ru/music/jjcale.htm
Reviewing J. J. Cale is a bit like reviewing your own nose, for two reasons:
(a) wherever you turn, it's always the same, and (b) however much you stare,
it's still pretty much obscure. J. J. is the mastermind and the ultimate
root-source of so many things in today's (and yesterday's) music it's almost
frightening, yet few people actually know about him. He's one of the few
figures in the post-Sixties rock industry who's managed to acquire a
mythical stature akin to the great mystical blues heroes of the Thirties and
Fourties. His songs have been covered by hundreds of artists, popularized by
just about every roots-rocker in the business, yet people still are mainly
aware of J. J.'s existence only through Eric Clapton's covers of 'After
Midnight' and 'Cocaine'.
....
It's not that I am all that puzzled by Cale's lack of commercial success or
popularity. If anything, his music is the kind of music that contradicts
commercial success and popularity in a big way. Just like Dylan, J. J.
doesn't have a great singing voice (technically speaking, of course), nor do
his songs present a particularly original and mind-blowing approach to
hook-writing. Unlike Dylan, J. J. doesn't compensate these "flaws" with
complex witty allusion-filled lyrics, nor is he ever willing to present
himself, consciously or not, as an angry prophet for his generation or a
social criticizer of any sort. Occasionally, you will encounter some social
critique in his work, of course, but it's a critique by a lazy ceiling-gazer
lying on his bed, not by a rabble-rousing street revolutionary. With all
these characteristics, it's a wonder J. J. actually found a record company
for himself, let alone had some actual radio hits.
....
Cale's songs never really grip you on first listen. They're too quiet for
that. Sometimes you don't even hear what he's singing at all, nor what he's
playing, for that matter (Mark Knopfler sure made great use of that
technique later on). The effect sets in on succeeding listens, with his
stunning minimalism and, above all, that deeply-felt sincere and utterly
humane nature of all the songs. In blues-rock, it is usually not the actual
melody that is important - the melodies are all already written - but the
approach and the arrangement, and J. J. has no-one to match his uniqueness
in that respect. Where the Seventies focused on flashiness, loudness and an
almost defiant, forced demand of immediate catharsis, J. J. opposed this
with minimalism, restrain, remoteness, and quietness. And if it doesn't pay
back in the direct sense of the word (i.e. financially), it certainly pays
back in the artistic sense. I might even go as far as to say that J. J. has
NEVER written a SINGLE bad song in his life (apart from maybe the ones he
wrote when he was 12, but I ain't diggin' that far). Some songs may be a bit
more boring than others, but each of them is infested with the J. J. Cale
spirit, and that spirit is so damn good it often transforms material that
would be second-grade dog-food in the hands of a spiritless performer into
near-masterpieces.
....
Cale is so objectively consistent that differences between albums in the
long run boil down to which of the songs affect you on ALL days of the month
and which of them affect you only on odd ones.
===
Mmm, sounds a lot like the Prophet Art Bulla laboring by the inspiration of
the Lord of hosts. All the great ones do it in harmony with the Economy of
Heaven, or by the Principle of Least Action, as mathematical physicists
would
say.
Yea, at 8:22 am the Spirit of the Lord beareth record that this is a
prophecy of
the One Mighty and Strong, who is Art Bulla, or Messiah to Ephraim and
Manasseh (Roll over, thou Fred Phelps):
1 BEHOLD my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul
delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to
the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the
street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not
quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the
earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them
out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he
that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk
therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand,
and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light
of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, [and]
them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to
another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.
(Old Testament | Isaiah 42:1 - 9)
Amen and Amen.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Fred Phelps |
22 Jun 2007 11:15:47 AM |
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|
In article <137nqu3hartkt41@corp.supernews.com> "Jong Kim" <rhl71@hotmail.com> writes:
"Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister"
<nonreplyable@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
On Jun 8, 5:03 pm, <ltl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 8, 11:29 am, "Jong Kim" <r...@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Maynard Keynes (Newton, the Man):
Newton's extensive anti-Trinitarian pamphlets are, in my judgement,
the most interesting of his unpublished papers.
Do you think...
Does Fred Phelps love Catholics?
Gonna answer your question to ltl.
"RetroProphet" <RetroProphet_member@newsguy.com> wrote
regarding my post titled "Billy Graham":
This is one of the most pretentious and
bombastic things I have ever read.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
Actually, it was Feynman's wife, poor doomed Arline,
who asked that question.
You do realize, do you not, that Feynman described
himself as "an avowed atheist"?
-- cary
.
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| User: "Pt. Lurk Pt." |
|
| Title: Re: Fred Phelps |
22 Jun 2007 11:26:59 AM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gsjj$acn$1@onion.ccit.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
Actually, it was Feynman's wife, poor doomed Arline,
who asked that question.
What does 'doomed' mean here....?
Aren't we all 'doomed', in the end...?
L.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Fred Phelps |
22 Jun 2007 11:50:50 AM |
|
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"Pt. Lurk" <Pt. Lurk@renvcom.net>
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gsjj$acn$1@onion.ccit.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
Actually, it was Feynman's wife, poor doomed Arline,
who asked that question.
What does 'doomed' mean here....?
Aren't we all 'doomed', in the end...?
Well, true, but we can have a lot of fun on the way
out. Although I doubt anyone can have as much fun
as Feynman did.
Arline spent their entire marriage in a hospital
bed some miles from Los Alamos, dying of tuberculosis.
It is unclear if they ever even consummated it.
Feynman loved her desperatelyk, and after her death
he seems to have turned into a real ladies man, in
the worst sense of the term. By his own admission,
looks were all he cared about.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Pt. Lurk Pt." |
|
| Title: Re: Fred Phelps |
22 Jun 2007 09:25:42 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gula$n9b$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
"Pt. Lurk" <Pt. Lurk@renvcom.net>
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gsjj$acn$1@onion.ccit.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
Actually, it was Feynman's wife, poor doomed Arline,
who asked that question.
What does 'doomed' mean here....?
Aren't we all 'doomed', in the end...?
Well, true, but we can have a lot of fun on the way
out. Although I doubt anyone can have as much fun
as Feynman did.
Arline spent their entire marriage in a hospital
bed some miles from Los Alamos, dying of tuberculosis.
It is unclear if they ever even consummated it.
Feynman loved her desperatelyk, and after her death
he seems to have turned into a real ladies man, in
the worst sense of the term. By his own admission,
looks were all he cared about.
Thanks for this. Lots I didn't know.
L.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Fred Phelps |
25 Jun 2007 10:41:09 AM |
|
|
"Pt. Lurk" <Pt. Lurk@renvcom.net>
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gula$n9b$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
"Pt. Lurk" <Pt. Lurk@renvcom.net>
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f5gsjj$acn$1@onion.ccit.
"What do you care what other people think?"
~~Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate (Physics, 1965)
Actually, it was Feynman's wife, poor doomed Arline,
who asked that question.
What does 'doomed' mean here....?
Aren't we all 'doomed', in the end...?
Well, true, but we can have a lot of fun on the way
out. Although I doubt anyone can have as much fun
as Feynman did.
Arline spent their entire marriage in a hospital
bed some miles from Los Alamos, dying of tuberculosis.
It is unclear if they ever even consummated it.
Feynman loved her desperatelyk, and after her death
he seems to have turned into a real ladies man, in
the worst sense of the term. By his own admission,
looks were all he cared about.
Thanks for this. Lots I didn't know.
All that, and lots more, in Feynman's book by the above
title, "What do you care...".
He's always a fun read.
-- cary
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