| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"taty" |
| Date: |
13 Oct 2005 12:19:55 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
doggoneit <doggoneit@thatsalitter.dam> wrote:
Mom delivers 16th child, thinking of more
LITTLE ROCK, Arkansas (AP) -- Michelle Duggar just delivered her 16th
child, and she's already thinking about doing it again.
Johannah Faith Duggar was born at 6:30 a.m. Tuesday and weighed 7
pounds, 6.5 ounces.
The baby's father, Jim Bob Duggar, a former state representative, said
Wednesday that mother and child were doing well. Johannah's birth was
especially exciting because it was the first time in eight years the
family has had a girl, he said.
Jim Bob Duggar, 40, said he and Michelle, 39, want more children.
"We both just love children and we consider each a blessing from the
Lord. I have asked Michelle if she wants more and she said yes, if the
Lord wants to give us some she will accept them," he said in a
telephone interview.
The Discovery Health Channel filmed Johannah's birth and plans to air
a show about the family in May.
The Learning Channel is doing another show about the family's
construction project, a 7,000-square foot house that should be
finished before Christmas. The home, which the family from the
northwest Arkansas town of Rogers has been building for two years,
will have nine bathrooms, dormitory-style bedrooms for the girls and
boys, a commercial kitchen, four washing machines and four dryers.
Jim Bob Duggar, who sells real estate, previously lost his bid for the
U.S. Senate. He said he expects to run for the state Senate next year
but isn't ready to make a formal announcement.
Michelle Duggar, 39, had her first child at age 21, four years after
the couple married.
Their children include two sets of twins, and each child has a name
beginning with the letter "J": Joshua, 17; John David, 15; Janna, 15;
Jill, 14; Jessa, 12; Jinger, 11; Joseph, 10; Josiah, 9; Joy-Anna, 8;
Jeremiah, 6; Jedidiah, 6; Jason, 5; James, 4; Justin, 2; Jackson Levi,
1; and now Johannah.
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time. Very
frugal.
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| User: "Gooserider" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:19:51 PM |
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"Lefty" <Rude_Dictator@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1129332366.884751.191900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Logan Shaw wrote:
Lefty wrote:
I'd think you were being ironic if I didn't know how stupid and
hypocritical so many so-called Christians are. You have some brass
balls accusing anybody else of elitism.
Why?
I have to explain to you that equating impoverished single parent homes
in "the hood" (implied- blacks and po' white trash can't raise good
kids)with bad parenting, and Christian nuclear families (implied- white
and middle class) with good parenting, is elitist, not to mention
racist? Are you on drugs?
It is not racist OR elitist to state FACT. The fact is children raised in
the ghetto by single parents end up in prison or in trouble with the law at
a much higher rate than those raised in nuclear families and instilled with
traditional values. Kids raised in single parent poor households have a more
difficult time, regardless of race. Blacks do make up the overwhelming
majority of the prison population, and the majority of black households are
single parent. I know it messes with your world view, but it's fact.
http://www.pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/captimes.html
For 80 years, from 1880 to 1960, the proportion of black children living
with a single parent held steady around 30 percent, according to the new
research by the University of Minnesota.
During the same time, the proportion of white children living with
only one parent stayed at about 10 percent.
But in recent years, those figures have climbed - to 63 percent for
black children and 19 percent for white.
Are kids better off with a caring single parent than in an abusive two
parent household? Sure. But kids are much better off in a two parent loving
household than with a single parent. When some poor working mom in the
ghetto has to hold two jobs to make ends meet, the child will be left alone
a lot, and idle hands are the Devil's workshop. I don't understand why this
is so upsetting to you. It's simple FACT.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 09:23:48 PM |
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Goosestepper weasled;
It is not racist OR elitist to state FACT. The fact is children raised in
the ghetto by single parents end up in prison or in trouble with the law at
a much higher rate than those raised in nuclear families and instilled with
traditional values.
Lefty sneered;
*****. You are stating your biased interpretation of data and
calling the interpretation a "FACT". The reality is that the failure of
a society to mitigate poverty creates crime. It has little, if
anything, to do with single parenthood or lack of "traditional values".
You have illogically and erroneously interpreted a reality to serve
your racist and elitist agenda.
Goosestepper intoned;
Kids raised in single parent poor households have a more
difficult time, regardless of race.
Lefty replied;
What do you mean by "difficult time", and how does this difficulty lead
to crime?
Goosestepper blathered;;
Blacks do make up the overwhelming
majority of the prison population, and the majority of black households are
single parent. I know it messes with your world view, but it's fact.
Lefty replied;
Indeed, but that fact does not point to either single parenthood or
race as the cause, since there are causative social factors that
afflict the black population at a higher rate than whites. Are you
really so dim that you cannot see that?
Goosestepper quoted;
http://www.pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/captimes.html
For 80 years, from 1880 to 1960, the proportion of black children living
with a single parent held steady around 30 percent, according to the new
research by the University of Minnesota.
During the same time, the proportion of white children living with
only one parent stayed at about 10 percent.
But in recent years, those figures have climbed - to 63 percent for
black children and 19 percent for white.
Lefty replied;
Then, according to your ridiculous reasoning, crime should have gone up
among whites by 9%. Did it?
Goosestepper stated;
Are kids better off with a caring single parent than in an abusive two
parent household? Sure. But kids are much better off in a two parent loving
household than with a single parent.
Lefty replied;
That's beside the point. Your claim was that single parenthood
inherently creates crime, not that two-parent families are preferable.
It is an argument you have utterly failed to back up.
Goosestepper continued to bluster;
When some poor working mom in the
ghetto has to hold two jobs to make ends meet, the child will be left alone
a lot, and idle hands are the Devil's workshop. I don't understand why this
is so upsetting to you. It's simple FACT.
Lefty relpied;
You just put your finger on part of the ~real~ cause, and you're too
dumb to know it.
BTW, the only one getting upset is you. You can't back up your
*****, so you start screeching "FACT" over and over like it's your
mantra.
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| User: "Logan Shaw" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 07:31:17 PM |
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Lefty wrote:
Logan Shaw wrote:
Lefty wrote:
I'd think you were being ironic if I didn't know how stupid and
hypocritical so many so-called Christians are. You have some brass
balls accusing anybody else of elitism.
Why?
I have to explain to you that equating impoverished single parent homes
in "the hood" (implied- blacks and po' white trash can't raise good
kids)with bad parenting, and Christian nuclear families (implied- white
and middle class) with good parenting, is elitist, not to mention
racist?
I interpreted your last sentence above as if it had been written,
"Because you are Christian, you have some brass balls accusing anybody
else of elitism." Since you included a statement about how stupid
many Christians are, that seemed like the best interpretation.
I was just trying to point out that there are lots of members of
virtually all groups who are stupid and hypocritical.
Agreed. However, the poster you accused was not displaying elitism,
IMO. You, however, were.
I think you're confusing me with the person you responded to a couple
of articles back in the this sub-thread (the one who made the comment
about Christian parents being better than single parents).
- Logan
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:45:30 PM |
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Logan Shaw wrote:
I interpreted your last sentence above as if it had been written,
"Because you are Christian, you have some brass balls accusing anybody
else of elitism." Since you included a statement about how stupid
many Christians are, that seemed like the best interpretation.
No, it was; "because you've written something so elitist yourself, you
have brass balls accusing anyone else of elitism".
I think you're confusing me with the person you responded to a couple
of articles back in the this sub-thread (the one who made the comment
about Christian parents being better than single parents).
Yes. Noted and apology made in another post. It was Gooserider.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 06:27:38 PM |
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Logan Shaw wrote:
Lefty wrote:
I'd think you were being ironic if I didn't know how stupid and
hypocritical so many so-called Christians are. You have some brass
balls accusing anybody else of elitism.
Why? Both sides are totally guilty of it. I know because I've spent
a lot of time in fundamentalist, moderate, and liberal churches
where I've seen lots of elitism and self-righteousness among Christians,
and I've also spent a lot of time at a University and at a government
research facility where I've a lot of elitism and self-righteousness
among atheists. I've seen preachers who spend part of many sermons
ridiculing non-believers and calling them inferior people, and I've
taken a computer science class from a professor who spent part of many
of his lectures talking about how dumb Christians are.
Bottom line is, many social groups spend time establishing a group
identity and establishing the idea that others outside their group
are inferior (and wrong) as part of establishing that identity.
Churches do it, nationalists do it, both US political parties do it,
and you're blind if you don't think atheists do it as well.
Of course, if you're part of any one of these groups, it's easy not
to see that your group does it, because when the cheerleaders shout,
you sometimes find yourself shouting along because you agree with
what they're shouting (otherwise you would not be in the group).
- Logan
Sorry, Logan. I meant to say that Gooserider was being elitist, not
you. Ignore that comment in my previous post.
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 02:01:25 PM |
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In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time. Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to be in a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a single parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up with no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're kind of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single parent.
bel
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| User: "Gooserider" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 03:41:24 PM |
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"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she
probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time. Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to be in
a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a single
parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up with no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're kind
of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single parent.
bel
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you. The Christians aren't the only ones who voted for W. He did
very well with the pro-Israel Jewish voters, also. He did well with rich
people, and white males. The Democratic party has pigeonholed itself into
depending upon the fringes of society as it's base, and that's a surefire
way to keep losing. I don't like Bush, but if the Democrats keep picking
losers like Gore and Kerry they can just pack it in. Clinton got elected
TWICE because the common person could relate to him. He was also a
Christian, a Southern Baptist, if you recall. He wasn't the son of a career
politician, and he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Bush is
both of those, but he presents himself(falsely but very well) as a Texan
good ol' boy. If the Dems can find another populist man of the people type
they can win. If they are STUPID enough to give the nomination to Hilary,
you will see whichever Republican runs as your new President. Bank on it.
The Democrats need to stifle the gays, radical feminists, athiests, and
whoever else makes their party unappealing to the masses, or they will find
themselves in third party status, IMHO.
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| User: "pattymaci" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 05:57:28 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
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| User: "Gooserider" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 07:24:12 PM |
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"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
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| User: "John Emmons" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 11:02:29 AM |
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Given a choice between a god fearing christian like Karl Rove being out and
on the streets and a drug dealer, I'll take the drug dealer.
The harm done to society by the criminal acts of those in power do far more
harm to the population as a whole than do the actions of individual
criminals.
The manipulation of the fear of those gang members and drug dealers is a far
worse crime than any of those committed by the gangs or the drug dealers.
It wasn't a drug dealer, only a drug user and alcholic who started an
illegal war in Iraq.
It wasn't a gang member who outed a working CIA operative.
When the people of this country realise just how much more damage is caused
by the willful breaking of the law by politicians and their ilk, maybe we'll
start seeing some real criminals in our jails.
John E.
"Gooserider" <gooserider@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
news:M_X3f.189964$p_1.167870@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she
means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single
parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with
the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 12:54:35 PM |
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In article <pK94f.144219$qY1.3823@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
johncyn@worldnet.att.net says...
Given a choice between a god fearing christian like Karl Rove being out and
on the streets and a drug dealer, I'll take the drug dealer.
The harm done to society by the criminal acts of those in power do far more
harm to the population as a whole than do the actions of individual
criminals.
The manipulation of the fear of those gang members and drug dealers is a far
worse crime than any of those committed by the gangs or the drug dealers.
It wasn't a drug dealer, only a drug user and alcholic who started an
illegal war in Iraq.
It wasn't a gang member who outed a working CIA operative.
When the people of this country realise just how much more damage is caused
by the willful breaking of the law by politicians and their ilk, maybe we'll
start seeing some real criminals in our jails.
John E.
Amen!
bel
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| User: "pattymaci" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:05:09 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
.
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| User: "pattymaci" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:05:15 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 09:01:23 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
More illogic. It presumes that crime is the only way to damage society,
in addition to presuming that being Christian reduces the tendency of
families to raise children who become criminals.
Can you provide links to research that backs this up? Many inner-city
single parent families are Christian. Why doesn't it help them?
It really never crossed your mind that it is America's abject failure
to mitigate the damage that grinding inner-city poverty does to
families that is the single greatest cause of crime?
Incredible.
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| User: "Gooserider" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 05:15:27 AM |
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"Lefty" <Rude_Dictator@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1129341683.271076.223120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she
means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single
parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with
the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single
parents
in the ghetto, however.
More illogic. It presumes that crime is the only way to damage society,
in addition to presuming that being Christian reduces the tendency of
families to raise children who become criminals.
Can you provide links to research that backs this up? Many inner-city
single parent families are Christian. Why doesn't it help them?
It really never crossed your mind that it is America's abject failure
to mitigate the damage that grinding inner-city poverty does to
families that is the single greatest cause of crime?
Incredible.
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock. People CHOOSE to have three or four kids with three
or four different men, and those men CHOOSE to father those kids and run
off. It's not society's fault, and society cannot change their behavior.
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| User: "Logan Shaw" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 12:09:36 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock.
Um, I think what you mean is that a true Christian *should* not be having
children out of wedlock. I don't know any true Christians who always do
whatever they should in all cases and make no bad decisions ever.
- Logan
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 12:50:14 PM |
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Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
Gooserider wrote
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock.
Um, I think what you mean is that a true Christian *should* not be having
children out of wedlock. I don't know any true Christians who always do
whatever they should in all cases and make no bad decisions ever.
Kids out of wedlock are however vastly less
commonly seen with the extreme end of the
god grovellers like the Duggars.
Sure, there have been some caught with their pants down, but
its much less common that they end up with a brat out of wedlock.
It seems pretty clear that a very large chunk of society
needs to believe that some damned god or other demands
particular stuff rather than trying to convince them that
some things dont make for a very viable society structure.
They do change over time tho, hard to imagine that even
the worst of the modern fundys would buy it if someone
like Graham proclaimed that some god or other had just
ordered that they all cut the end off their kid's dicks on
day 10 or whenever it is and they would just click their
heels and do it and keep doing it for a couple of millenia.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 02:55:31 PM |
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Goosestepper wrote:
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock.
But they do, and their teenage kids do. Don't you ever ~think~? How
pathetically naive and willfully blind are you? Christians *****, just
like everybody else. How many "true" Christians do you think exist? If
we go by your definition, it would be zip, zero, and zilch.
Goosestepper continued to blather;
People CHOOSE to have three or four kids with three
or four different men, and those men CHOOSE to father those kids and run
off. It's not society's fault, and society cannot change their behavior.
Who gives a ***** if it's chosen or not, and whose "fault" it is, other
than you heartless libertarian extremists? If the kids exist, they need
proper care. Society can change the way those children are educated and
housed, goosestepper. Society can provide those parents with support or
remove the children from homes that are neglectful or abusive. Society
can mitigate the misery. American society chooses not to. It then gets
what it deserves when those kids grow up to become criminals and
victimize the people who failed to save them.
Yet you American right-wingers whine endlessly about a problem you
created and continue to create. The rest of the world laughs at your
idiocy and hypocrisy.
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 12:53:34 PM |
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In article <3F44f.15119$ae.4024@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Lefty" <Rude_Dictator@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1129341683.271076.223120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she
means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single
parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with
the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single
parents
in the ghetto, however.
More illogic. It presumes that crime is the only way to damage society,
in addition to presuming that being Christian reduces the tendency of
families to raise children who become criminals.
Can you provide links to research that backs this up? Many inner-city
single parent families are Christian. Why doesn't it help them?
It really never crossed your mind that it is America's abject failure
to mitigate the damage that grinding inner-city poverty does to
families that is the single greatest cause of crime?
Incredible.
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock.
Yet plenty of people who consider themselves "true Christians" have
children out of wedlock.
Are you saying that your version of Christianity is the real one? How
do you know?
People CHOOSE to have three or four kids with three
or four different men, and those men CHOOSE to father those kids and run
off. It's not society's fault, and society cannot change their behavior.
Neither can Christianity. Your brand of religion might condemn them,
but it doesn't stop them.
bel
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| User: "Barbara Bomberger" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 03:13:28 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:15:27 GMT, "Gooserider"
<gooserider@mousepotato.com> wrote:
That's contradictory. A person who is a true Christian will not be having
children out of wedlock. People CHOOSE to have three or four kids with three
or four different men, and those men CHOOSE to father those kids and run
off. It's not society's fault, and society cannot change their behavior.
While a true christian perhaps should not be having children out of
wedlock, that doesnt mean that they wont. It does mean that if said
person becomes pregnant, she is in fact more likely to have an out of
wedlock baby than an abortion.
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| User: "pattymaci" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:11:14 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
No, I didn't miss the point. I responded to what you wrote. You
consistently make blanket statements as if everything is either black
or white.
Pattymac
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:47:37 PM |
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In article <M_X3f.189964$p_1.167870@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"pattymaci" <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1129330648.606047.124500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
Pattymac
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it she means
fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society than single parents
in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as prisons aren't filled with the
spawn of fundamentalists. They are filled with the spawn of single parents
in the ghetto, however.
Prisons are filled with petty drug users who have on business being
there.
If your problem is people in prisons, why aren't you focusing on the
real causes than spouting off about the spawn of single parents...and
somehow I get the feeling if the single parent is male, you are alright
with that.
bel
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 09:42:46 PM |
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Phoenix <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote
gooserider@mousepotato.com wrote
pattymaci <pattymaci@aol.com> wrote
Gooserider wrote
When Christian parents start producing gang
members and drug> dealers I'll concede to you.
All gang members and drug dealers are Jewish? I didn't know that.
You miss the point. Phoenix claimed that Christians(and I take it
she means fundamentalist pro lifers) cause more damage to society
than single parents in the ghetto. That's obviously NOT true, as
prisons aren't filled with the spawn of fundamentalists. They are
filled with the spawn of single parents in the ghetto, however.
Prisons are filled with petty drug users who have on business being there.
Lie, most of them in prison arent there for petty drug offences.
If your problem is people in prisons, why aren't you focusing on the
real causes than spouting off about the spawn of single parents...and
somehow I get the feeling if the single parent is male, you are alright with
that.
Just because you are just another rabid bigot.
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| User: "Beeblebrox" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 09:12:32 PM |
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Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you.
are you actually spouting that nonsense, that "god-fearing people don't
do those things?" *****. Some of the worst atrocities in human
history have been committed in the name of god
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| User: "Gooserider" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 05:15:54 AM |
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"Beeblebrox" <beeblebroxNOSPAM@barlick.net> wrote in message
news:AyZ3f.3025$xE1.1042@okepread07...
Gooserider wrote:
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you.
are you actually spouting that nonsense, that "god-fearing people don't do
those things?" *****. Some of the worst atrocities in human history
have been committed in the name of god
That's not the same thing.
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| User: "Phoenix" |
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| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 04:26:43 PM |
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In article <UJU3f.147329$xl6.104353@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she
probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time. Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to be in
a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a single
parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up with no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're kind
of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single parent.
bel
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you. T
Christians are doing more to hurt you than drug dealers or gang members.
In fact they are indirectly causing the increase of drug and gang
activities - if that is your issue.
he Christians aren't the only ones who voted for W. He did
very well with the pro-Israel Jewish voters, also. He did well with rich
people, and white males. The Democratic party has pigeonholed itself into
depending upon the fringes of society as it's base, and that's a surefire
way to keep losing. I don't like Bush, but if the Democrats keep picking
losers like Gore and Kerry they can just pack it in. Clinton got elected
TWICE because the common person could relate to him. He was also a
Christian, a Southern Baptist, if you recall. He wasn't the son of a career
politician, and he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Bush is
both of those, but he presents himself(falsely but very well) as a Texan
good ol' boy. If the Dems can find another populist man of the people type
they can win. If they are STUPID enough to give the nomination to Hilary,
you will see whichever Republican runs as your new President. Bank on it.
The Democrats need to stifle the gays, radical feminists, athiests, and
whoever else makes their party unappealing to the masses, or they will find
themselves in third party status, IMHO.
Oh please. With the Republican dirty dealings, like the Swift Boat
Veterans, who has a chance? How are we supposed to deal with things
like the voting atrocities in Ohio? Who has the upper hand to turn any
Democrat into a loser? Bill Clinton split the rich vote, which pissed
off enough Repubs to start a campaign of harassment that no one would
want to live with.
I dislike Gore immensely. If McCain had been running against him, I
wouldn't have voted Democrat - but that doesn't matter because the
Repubs gave us the stupidest, most corrupt president ever to hold
office. *****, Gore looks rather good now - and you think Junior's got
the charisma to overcome this? Nope, he had help, lots of ugly help,
because in the honest light of day Junior is the most unfit person we've
ever hired for this job - and it showed from the very beginning.
And the Krazy Kristians are more responsible for this debacle we call a
government than any other single group in the country. Why do you think
Faith Based Initiatives is even on the table, or no one in Congress is
furious about the Bush effort to pay back RELIGIOUS (as opposed to
secular) charities for their work in Katrina areas? Because the
religious yahoos have the government hog tied.
And the Religious Reich don't care if Kerry is an honorable veteran or
not - they just care if he can be shamed by a group paid for by friends
of a Republican president so a pro-choice, gay tolerant candidate isn't
elected. They don't care if the politics is mean, dirty and very
possibly illegal - they have only one agenda for achieving absolute
control and don't care about the sanctity of the process.
So I say ***** 'em.
bel
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| User: "Gooserider" |
|
| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 07:38:04 PM |
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|
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ec94c59d2bd298a570@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <UJU3f.147329$xl6.104353@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on
sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she
probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time.
Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be
well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and
instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to be
in
a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a single
parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up with
no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're
kind
of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single parent.
bel
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you. T
Christians are doing more to hurt you than drug dealers or gang members.
In fact they are indirectly causing the increase of drug and gang
activities - if that is your issue.
Unbelievable. Next time I'm driving by a church I'll be sure to watch
out for the drive by.You do realize that the Red Cross and Salvation Army
are both Christian organizations, right? I'm sure the poor victims of
Katrina and Rita are scared to death of all the Christians coming to their
areas. If you're trying to tie the election of Bush to the Christians, you
have to realize they are a small part of what got him elected. He was
overwhelmingly voted for by working class white people(and most people in
this country don't go to church) and Hispanic Catholics(who aren't really
fundamentalists, are they).
The reasons are as I explained to you before. The Democratic Party has
become associated with people whom the mainstream finds unappealing. Until
the spectre of such unappealing people is washed away, the Democrats will
continue losing.This is the same reason the anti-war movement, which is
totally just, is not more popular. There are plenty of people who are
isolationist conservatives who don't support the war, but the anti war
movement is distasteful to them. I watched the anti war rally from DC on
C-Span, and I saw a steady parade of people that Conservatives would find
unappealing. Communists, hippies, black radicals, hispanic radicals, and
homosexual radicals(I don't understand the gay/Iraq war connection).This
destroys the credibility of the movement. The average American sees this
parade of folks and immediately sides with the OPPOSITE viewpoint.
I think the two party system is horribly flawed, because the
Republicans and Democrats are in agreement on many of the most important
issues.They both like to spend money. They are both interested in creating
more government, and both voted overwhelmingly for the Patriot Act and the
Iraq war. We will eventually see a third or fourth party, just like Europe.
I envision a far right party of true conservative thought(lower taxes, less
government spending, less government in general) and a far left party(more
Socialist in thought). Parties may even break down across racial lines. As
the Hispanic population grows, I would not be surprised to see a Aztlan
party. The blacks may eventually regain some of the organizational skills
they had in the 60s, but the young blacks are being effectively brainwashed
by MTV and rap music into becoming thug morons instead of the next MLK.
.
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| User: "Phoenix" |
|
| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
14 Oct 2005 08:59:42 PM |
|
|
In article <MbY3f.147450$xl6.30302@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ec94c59d2bd298a570@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <UJU3f.147329$xl6.104353@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on
sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she
probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time.
Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be
well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and
instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to be
in
a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a single
parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up with
no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're
kind
of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single parent.
bel
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers I'll
concede to you. T
Christians are doing more to hurt you than drug dealers or gang members.
In fact they are indirectly causing the increase of drug and gang
activities - if that is your issue.
Unbelievable. Next time I'm driving by a church I'll be sure to watch
out for the drive by.
Like you've ever experienced a drive by - though you've seen one on a TV
show.
You do realize that the Red Cross and Salvation Army
are both Christian organizations, right? I'm sure the poor victims of
Katrina and Rita are scared to death of all the Christians coming to their
areas. If you're trying to tie the election of Bush to the Christians, you
have to realize they are a small part of what got him elected.
Small part? Huge part - and they don't deserve the influence. They are
theofascists who will strip you and I of valuable choices that once made
this country the best in the world.
Study Saudi Arabia as a possibility for our future.
He was
overwhelmingly voted for by working class white people(and most people in
this country don't go to church) and Hispanic Catholics(who aren't really
fundamentalists, are they).
Hispanics who vote, voted Dem.
The reasons are as I explained to you before. The Democratic Party has
become associated with people whom the mainstream finds unappealing. Until
the spectre of such unappealing people is washed away, the Democrats will
continue losing.
Especially since there is a never ending stream of unappealing people.
If the Dems abandon gays, the Reps will pick of the Jews to hate, or
unmarried women, or union members. It doesn't matter. There will
always be someone for you to hate, and the Repubs to vilify for their
own purposes.
You've been taken in and buggered. You personal credibility is nil -
especially to those who scammed your vote who don't give a ***** about
you, who laugh at you and your simple minded approach they gleefully
take advantage of.
All you are doing is sitting smugly with your hate and idiot divisions
and congratulating yourself for getting the Fox News spin. Your party
has given you nothing, and you will get nothing out of them except spin.
bel
.
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| User: "Gooserider" |
|
| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 05:12:49 AM |
|
|
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dba2c8cc6be6f298a575@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <MbY3f.147450$xl6.30302@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ec94c59d2bd298a570@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <UJU3f.147329$xl6.104353@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on
sanitary
napkins. She's had 16 children in the last 18 years, so she
probably
hasn't gone through a whole box of Kotex in that entire time.
Very
frugal.
and I'd wager that everyone of them will grow up to be
well-adjusted,
normal adults.
Not likely, but if they stay in that family/cult, they'll never
know
the difference.
N.
What makes you think so? If they have parents who love them and
instill a
basic sense of decency in them, they will turn out fine. Better to
be
in
a
household which dares to be Christian(oh the horror) than in a
single
parent
household. I'm more concerned with kids in the ghetto who grow up
with
no
daddy than I am with the kids of hardworking Christian folk. You're
kind
of
an elitist.
With the president that these "incorruptable" hardworking Christians
have given us, I'd call them far more dangerous than any single
parent.
bel
When Christian parents start producing gang members and drug dealers
I'll
concede to you. T
Christians are doing more to hurt you than drug dealers or gang
members.
In fact they are indirectly causing the increase of drug and gang
activities - if that is your issue.
Unbelievable. Next time I'm driving by a church I'll be sure to
watch
out for the drive by.
Like you've ever experienced a drive by - though you've seen one on a TV
show.
I never said I did. I do know that the 'hood is far more dangerous than a
nice Christian neighborhood, however.
You do realize that the Red Cross and Salvation Army
are both Christian organizations, right? I'm sure the poor victims of
Katrina and Rita are scared to death of all the Christians coming to
their
areas. If you're trying to tie the election of Bush to the Christians,
you
have to realize they are a small part of what got him elected.
Small part? Huge part - and they don't deserve the influence. They are
theofascists who will strip you and I of valuable choices that once made
this country the best in the world.
Huh? You are forgetting the entire PC movement which is spearheaded by
LIBERALS. The left wingers want to eliminate any speech which they find
offensive, and freedom of speech is the MOST important right we have.
Study Saudi Arabia as a possibility for our future.
Or you can look at Europe, where people live in fear of offending some
protected class and being prosecuted for it.
He was
overwhelmingly voted for by working class white people(and most people in
this country don't go to church) and Hispanic Catholics(who aren't
really
fundamentalists, are they).
Hispanics who vote, voted Dem.
Bush did very well with Hispanics. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic,
and the Democratic party's pro-gay, pro-abortion stance is offensive to
them. You also forget that Bush has Hispanics in his family, was governor of
Texas(and you aren't getting elected there without Hispanic support), and
openly courted the Hispanic vote.
The reasons are as I explained to you before. The Democratic Party
has
become associated with people whom the mainstream finds unappealing.
Until
the spectre of such unappealing people is washed away, the Democrats will
continue losing.
Especially since there is a never ending stream of unappealing people.
If the Dems abandon gays, the Reps will pick of the Jews to hate, or
unmarried women, or union members. It doesn't matter. There will
always be someone for you to hate, and the Repubs to vilify for their
own purposes.
What? President Bush has placed more Jewish people in his administration
than any president before him. He is beloved by the pro-Israel American
Jewish population. The Republicans will never abandon the Jewish voter.
You've been taken in and buggered. You personal credibility is nil -
especially to those who scammed your vote who don't give a ***** about
you, who laugh at you and your simple minded approach they gleefully
take advantage of.
This coming from the woman who voted for the billionaire career politican.
Kerry was EXACTLY the same as Bush. He's a spoiled rotten rich guy who has
never lived a day in the real world.
All you are doing is sitting smugly with your hate and idiot divisions
and congratulating yourself for getting the Fox News spin. Your party
has given you nothing, and you will get nothing out of them except spin.
bel
I'm not a Republican, Phoenix. I mentioned repeatedly that I do not like
Bush. I didn't vote for either Bush or Kerry, because they are both
unappealing. I voted Libertarian as a protest vote. I don't watch Fox News,
either. You seem unable to comprehend that I was describing WHY the
mainstream doesn't vote for Democrats.
.
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| User: "E Varden" |
|
| Title: Re: Fundy redneck delivers 16th baby, wants more |
15 Oct 2005 12:59:08 PM |
|
|
"Gooserider" <gooserider@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
news:BC44f.148497$xl6.81222@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dba2c8cc6be6f298a575@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <MbY3f.147450$xl6.30302@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ec94c59d2bd298a570@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <UJU3f.147329$xl6.104353@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
"Phoenix" <avianatrix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1db9ca945d03d52f98a569@news-server.carolina.rr.com...
In article <5pL3f.146022$xl6.93259@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
gooserider@mousepotato.com says...
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:1129234057.081185.10290@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tim Campbell wrote:
taty wrote:
Well, I guess the bright side is how much they're saving on
sanitary
]
merciful snip<
WOULD YOU FUCKING MORONS PLEASE TRIM YOUR FUCKING POSTS?
***** fat lazy bastards...
Pe
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