"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wonder boy kantdoo posts this for pure policical and educations replies and
responses. Nothing religious about this.
But here is a historical reply
:|George Washington - 1st President (1789-1797)
:|Political Party: Federalist
:|Denomination: Episcopalian
George Washingtion was not an orthodox Christian.
Christian Orthodoxy And The Founders
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/orthodox.htm
[excerpts]
When the crisis came, Jefferson, Paine, John Adams, Washington,
Franklin, Madison, and many lesser lights were to be reckoned among either
the Unitarians or the Deists. it was not Cotton Mather's God to whom the
author of the Declaration of Independence appealed, it was to 'Nature's
God.' From whatever source derived, the effect of both Unitarianism and
Deism was to hasten the retirement of historic theology from its empire
over the intellect of American leaders, and to clear the atmosphere for
secular interests.
Source of Information: The Rise of American Civilization, by Charles A.
and Mary R. Beard. (Vol. I., p. 449.)
======================================================
Though the cool deism of Washington can hardly be distinguished in
broad outline from that of Jefferson, the public reaction to the two men
and their religious views differed sharply. Only Jefferson was denounced as
the 'howling atheist,' never Washington. Only Jefferson was attacked as the
enemy of the churches and the clergy, never Washington. A curious public
probed and punches Adams, Franklin and Jefferson regarding their Christian
convictions, but never Washington.
Source of Information: Faith of Our Fathers, Religion and the New Nation.
Edwin S. Gaustad, Harper & Row, (1987) pp 77
========================================================
As President, Washington regularly attended Christian services, and he
was friendly in his attitude toward Christian values. However, he
repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion,
and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary....
Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to
Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative. George
Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because
he was not himself a Christian. In the enlightened tradition of his day, he
was a devout Deist--just as many of the clergymen who knew him suspected.
Source of Information: Barry Schwartz, George Washington: The Making of an
American Symbol, New York: The Free Press, 1987, pp. 174-175.)
===========================================================
Doctor Rush tells me that he has it from Asa Green, that when the
clergy addressed General Washington on his departure from the government,
it was observed in their consultation, that he had never, on any occasion,
said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion,
and they thought they should so pen their address, as to force him at
length to declare publicly whether he was a Christian or not. They did so.
However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered
every article of their address particularly except that, which he passed
over without notice. Rush observes, he never did say a word on the subject
in any of his public papers, except in his valedictory letter to the
Governors of the States, when he resigned his commission in the army,
wherein he speaks of "the benign influence of the Christian religion."
I know that Gouverneur Morris, who pretended to be in his secrets and
believed himself to be so, has often told me that General Washington
believed no more of that system than he himself did.
Source of Information: Entry by Thomas Jefferson in his Anas. February 1,
1800, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Selected and Edited by Saul K.
Padover , The Easton press. (1967) pp 217-218)
========================================================
[ and a lot of additional onfo about washington is found in this final
excerpt from this article ]
#10
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.education/msg/32c47f4b5fa31f87?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rnum=17
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H5BB26E2D
[end excerpts]
*********************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:21:35 -0500
To: jalison
From: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Washington and Jesus
Jim,
Read my letter first. His reply seemed to miss the whole point.
Either that or he was upset that I had the balls to call his attention to
his misstatement..one that is being used by the religious Reich to make
their Christian Nation claims.
At 01:14 AM 10/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
Dear Professor Kaminski,
I hope you will pardon this uninvited intrusion. My name is Glen
P. Goffin and I am a dedicated believer in the wisdom of
Church(Religion) and State(Government) separation. Motivated by this
dedication, I have been attempting to provide the most accurate,
original source, references I can find to those who appear to be using
the Christian/non-Christian writings of our founding/framing fathers to
support their pro or anti Church-State separation propaganda
claims. (Personally, I do not find supernatural explanations credible.)
I have noted that many pro-separationist/non-religious
organizations are using your "...and never to Jesus,..." statement (see
below) as proof that George Washington was a Deist. Though I personally
believe that Washington was, indeed, more Deist than Christian in his
faith beliefs, I wonder if you are aware of the Delaware Chiefs
document (see below) over his signature and rank entry?
Further research indicates that the signed document (which is
reported as mutilated), whose text is in the handwriting of Washington's
Aide, Lt. Col. Robert Hanson Harrison, was originally in the possession
of Dr. A. S. W. Rosenbach, of New York City and Philadelphia. The
portion in brackets was supplied from the copy by Caleb Gibbs, inclosed
in Washington's letter to the President of Congress, May 14, I779, q. v.
Based on pure guesswork, I am not overly surprised that
Washington signed this document. There were atrocities committed by
Indian allies of both the Continental and British armies before and
after the "Speech to the Delaware Chiefs." (See end note.) However, a
good many of Washington's troops were far more familiar with the
atrocities of the "heathen" Indians because of their pre-Revolutionary
struggles with them on the harsh frontiers of this new country. Gen.
Washington needed every fighting man, or woman, he could muster to work
together if they were to be victorious over the British. One way to help
reduce the existing animosities within his own forces, and perhaps even
increase the anti-Loyalist/British fervor, would be to claim that the
pro-Independence (Anti-British) Indians were being introduced to
biblical (Christian) conditioning.
http://www.masoniclodge4.com/history/
(Extract...with added punctuation for clarity)
"The impact of Masonry pervaded Washington's writing and ideas," said
John Kaminski, a history professor at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison who wrote "A Great and Good Man" about
Washington, and heads the university's
Center for the Study of the American Constitution. "Washington 's
writings rarely include references to God, and never to Jesus," Kaminski
said, "but rather use the terminology and philosophy of the Masons,
referring to The Great Architect and building in general." Washington
became a promoter of an extensive canal system aimed at facilitating
westward expansion, and Kaminski suggests that he was influenced even in
that by his experience as a Mason.
(End extract)
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/washington/fitzpatrick/index.html
<ot2www-washington?specfile=/texts/english/washington/fitzpatrick/search/gw.o2w&act=surround&offset=18497623&tag=Writings+of+Washington,+Vol.+15:+SPEECH+TO+THE+DELAWARE+CHIEFS&query=Delaware+Chiefs&id=gw150049>Writings
of Washington, Vol. 15: SPEECH TO THE DELAWARE CHIEFS SPEECH TO THE
DELAWARE CHIEFS
[Head Quarters, Middle Brook, May 12, 1779.]
(Extracts)
Brothers: I am glad you have brought three of the Children of your
principal Chiefs to be educated with us. I am sure Congress will open the
Arms of love to them, and will look upon them as their own Children, and
will have them educated accordingly. This is a great mark of your
confidence and of your desire to preserve the friendship between the Two
Nations to the end of time, and to become One people with your Brethen of
the United States. My ears hear with pleasure the other matters you
mention. Congress will be glad to hear them too. You do well to wish to
learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus
Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.
Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise
intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that
nothing shall ever be able to loose it.
Note: In the writing of Robert Hanson Harrison. The document is
signed by Washington, who added, beneath his signature, "Commander in
chief of all the Armies in the United States of America." The above text
is from the signed document (which is mutilated) in the possession of
Dr. A. S. W. Rosenbach, of New York City and Philadelphia. The portion
in brackets was supplied from the copy by Caleb Gibbs, inclosed in
Washington's letter to the President of Congress, May 14, I779, q. v.
(End extracts
(End note)
July 3, 1778, loyalist Colonel John Butler with local troops and Seneca
Indian allies invades Wyoming Valley, north of the Susquehanna River, and
attacks at "Forty Fort." In the frontier war along the New York and
Pennsylvania frontier, Onandagas, Cayugas, Senecas, and Mohawks of the
Iroquois League ally with the British. Joseph Brant (Joseph Fayadanega),
a Mohawk war chief educated in English missionary schools and an Anglican
convert, has significant influence among British government and military
leaders. Oneidas and Tuscororas ally with the Americans. Washington
writes Philip Schuyler, a member of the Indian commission for the
northern department. George Washington to Philip Schuyler, July 22, 1778
Based in what I have found to date, I am forced to question your
statement that GW never referenced "Jesus."
Sincerely,
Glen P. Goffin
Lt.Col. USAF (Ret)
================================================
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 07:01:01 -0600
From: John Kaminski <jpkamins@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Washington and Jesus
X-Sender: (Unverified)
To: Glen Goffin <buffip2@comcast.net>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1
Dear Colonel Goffin,
Thank you so much for your message. Who would have thought that
my spontaneous response to a series of questions on George Washington and
the Masons would have attracted any attention! But I guess some
statements touch some people's emotions.
It is rather amazing when you think of all the writing that GW
did--perhaps 30-35 volumes of his own writing, you have come up with one
rather innocuous reference to Jesus. I would say that you've proven my
point. One reference is really proof of my point. GW in all of his
innumerable references to God uses metaphorical allusions
regularly--repeatedly in fact. With regard to the one letter you mention,
two things stand out. First GW did not draft the letter--his aide did. A
busy GW signed it. Second of all, GW is not calling upon God for
intervention or support or blessing, etc. He is referring to the
religion of Jesus Christ. Well, what else would he refer to? The
Christian religion? It's the same thing. The Christian religion, which GW
was always an official member of a formal Christian denomination, is
referred to as the religion of Jesus Christ. On numerous occasions
Jefferson refers to Jesus and espouses the "religion" of Jesus--that is
the teachings of Jesus. He rejects the faulty interpretation of man,
especially those of the Apostles and later "priests" who through their
own inadequacies faultily interpret Jesus' words. According to Jefferson,
the words of Jesus provide a wonderful philosophical model for human
beings to follow. This is a far cry from believing that Jesus--the
man--was divine and that he is part of the Trinity of God. Jefferson and
Paine elaborate on this subject--GW does not, but I believe as GW
advanced, he became more convinced in the unity of God. (This is true for
many other Founders, such as John Adams.) Certain topics, however, were
never or seldom addressed by GW in writing.
In essence, then, I would conclude that this ONE reference to
JESUS drafted by an aide and merely referring to the Christian religion
as the religion of Jesus substantiates the point I was making.
Thanks again for your interest.
John Kaminski
:|
:|Quotes from his Inaugural Address - 1789
:|(Quotes from my book A Nation Under God)
I am sure you will not correct your book
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the US and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
