"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:<2q1jcnFqikgtU1@uni-berlin.de>...

If you value reason, you have to recognise that this is not
the way that reason works. You're the one who's proposing
the existence of some kind of supernatural entity, and
therefore it's up to you to provide evidence to support it.

Altough what I have been writing is very limited still in
contains
evidences for the existence of Allah. But, Allah willing and
time
allows I will try to provide more evidences for you.

Every atheist would produce
different
reasons for why there is no god, subjective. There is no
objective
evidence and can not be to prove your case.

By that argument, should we believe in Zeus, Odin, Ra, Thor,
Santa Claus and a myriad other mythical entities for which
there is no objective evidence of their non-existence?

You should value the heavenly books, prophets and their
messages.

But
from among those the last one sent to humanity through prophet
Mohammed peace be upon him. Besides you should use your
reason if you
want to weigh any religion. The definition of god should be
proper.
The God should be One first of all, all-powerful, all-seeing,
all-hearing, all-knowing, omni-xxxx,
and so and so forth.

If there would be two gods in the
universe there
would be confusion and there would be no order in the
universe.

God
should have no need, like going to toilet, like food, like
drink, like
resting, etc.

God should have no beginning, s
houldhavenoend.Any
god that does not fit criteria can not be qualified for
godship.
There many other qualities of god but I have listed here the
most
critical and important ones.

And the message that God sends should not be contradictory,
Allah
states in the Qur'an in meaning in any book other than Allah
sends you
would find contradictions and discrepancies in it.

I see in this net many discussions between xtians and atheists
where
the atheists point out to the contradictions and discrepancies
found
in the old and new testaments, and they turn the bible to a
laughing
stock. They are in a sense right because since those
testaments are
not the real revelations sent to the respected prophets. Many
people
have wrote down their dreams. Even the bibles themselves
testify to
this fact by saying

New testament according to Mathew,
New testament according to Luke,
New testament according to Paul, etc.

Even Mathew, Lukas and Paul did not write those new
testaments. If 1t
were so they would tell like by Mathew, by Lukas, by Paul
rather than
according to. When a person writes a book, does he say
according to
or by.

We believe in the new testament revealed to Jesus peace be
upon him,
and no xtian have a new testament by Jesus, today.

Today's christianity is actually established by Saul (a Jew),
known as
Paul.
Whatever Jesus said, the Paul said the opposite. Jesus peace
be upon
him says keep the commandments, Paul says you are made dead to
the
law. Jesus says believe in one god, Paul says trinity, so and
so
forth. And many unfitting qualities attributed to god because
of
others hands intermingled to the scriptures.

You should value the book which has no contradiction in it,
which is
Qur'an.

On the other hand, history testifies the coming of prophets,
and their
books. All of them support each other even though they come
at different times, sometimes fullfilling prophecies
foretold in the
early books.

Yes, we know that there have been many people who claimed
existence of supernatural entities. Many of them wrote down
their beliefs, even produced carvings, paintings,
heiroglyphics etc... Does that constitute evidence for their
existence? Or merely evidence of people's beliefs?

Qualities befitting to god should be looked for, and a
heavenly book
without contradiction should be looked for.

As for prophecies, by all means show us the details and we'll
consider them.

There is now in front of you Qur'an, and Qur'an challenges
humanity to
produce a like of it for 1400 years from a man unlearned, if
humanity
can not produce the like of Qur'an from a man unlearned,
Qur'an challenges humanity to bring all of your learned to
produce the like
of it. If they can not do it, and surely they can not, they
are
challenged to produce a chapter from an unlearned man. And
if they
can not do it from an unlearned man, Qur'an again chalenges
them to
them produce a chapter from the learned. And Qur'an says
they can not
produce the likeness of it, and they will never be able to
produce the
likeness of it. A standing miracle in front of your eyes,
you can
touch, examine it but you can not produce an equivalent.

People throughout history have produced remarkable works of
fiction. All that tells us is that humans have good
imaginations. If you want to demonstrate that any particular
book has a basis in fact, you need to produce supporting
evidence.

You did not know Qur'an, you think it is an ordinary book as
others
wrote while it is not. Even from its English translations you
might
notice that it is not like any other book. In the future,
Allah-willing I will provide either directly or bu referring
you to
some sources some of the miraculous aspects of the Qur'an.

Qur'an foretold many scientific facts which were discovered
by the
scientific community only recently. Like the big bang...

Details?

Qur'an Chapter 21 Verse 2-12 (21:2-12), English translation:

The creation of heaven and earth is not a game.
If there were more than one God, the heavens and earth
would have
been in a state of disorder.
The skies and earth once were one mass; Allah split them
asunder
and created the different planets.
Allah has created all living beings from water.
Allah has not granted immortality to any human being.
Humans' invented gods cannot even defend themselves; how
can they
defend their worshippers.
Prophet Musa (pbuh) was given Al-Furqan, so is this
Al-Qur'an (The
Qur'an) given to Muhammad (pbuh).
Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) was not an idol worshipper but an
idol
breaker.
Mankind is but a single brotherhood.
Whoever will do good deeds provided he is a believer, his
endeavor
shall not be rejected.
Allah has sent Muhammad (pbuh) as a blessing for all the
worlds (humans, jinns, and
others).

Qur'an 21:30 English translation:
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one unit of Creation) before We
clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing.
Will they not then believe? 2690 2691

Qur'an 41:11 English translation:
Moreover He Comprehended in His design the sky and it had been
(as)
smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together
willingly or
unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together) in willing
obedience."

... like the
creation is created in pairs...

13:3
And it is He Who spread out the earth and set thereon mountains
standing firm
and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs
two and
two: He
draweth the Night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold verily in
these
things there are Signs for those who consider!

20:53
"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out;
has
enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and
has sent
down water from the sky." With it have We produced divers
pairs of
plants each separate from the others.

22:5
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection
(consider) that
We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a
leech-like
clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly
unformed in
order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause
whom We
will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We
bring you
out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of
full
strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent
back to
the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having
known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and
lifeless but
when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells
and it
puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).


26:7
Have they not looked at the earth to see how We have caused all
kinds of noble pairs to grow in it?


31:10
He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He
set on
the
earth mountains standing firm lest it should shake with you;
and He
scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain
from the
sky
and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature in pairs.

36:36
Glory to Allah Who created in pairs all things that the earth
produces
as
well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which
they have
no
knowledge.

39:6
He created you (all) from a single person: then created of
like nature
his
mate; and He sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs:
He makes
you
in the wombs of your mothers in stages one after another in
three
veils of
darkness. Such is Allah your Lord and Cherisher: to Him
belongs (all)
dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away
(from
your
true Center)?

42:11
(He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made
for you
pairs
from among yourselves and pairs among cattle: by this means
does He
multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him and He
is the
One that
hears and sees (all things).

43:12
That has created pairs in all things and has made for you ships
and cattle on which ye ride


50:7
And the earth--We have spread it out and set thereon mountains
standing firm and produced therein every kind of beautiful
growth (in pairs)

51:49
And of everything We have created pairs: that ye may receive
instruction.

53:45
That He did create in pairs male and female.


55:52
In both of them there will be two pairs of every fruit.

...like the not mixing of the two
sea
waters which are phsically connected...

Details? Observations of the natural world don't sound like
'foretelling' to me, but tell us more...

Recent Captain Custo discovered that two sea water does not
mix to
each other even though they are adjacent to each other and have
different ingredients.

55:19-21
He has let free the two bodies of flowing water meeting
together:

Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:

Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?

like the stages of a
baby in
mothers womb.

Details? Describing the human foetus at different stages of
development hardly sounds miraculous - mere observation of
aborted or surgically removed foetuses would do the trick...
but by all means elaborate.

82:6-8
O man! what has seduced thee from thy Lord Most
Beneficent?

Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion and
gave thee a just bias;

In whatever Form He wills does He put thee together.

71:14
Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages?

76:1-3
Has there not been over Man a long period of Time when he was
nothing--(not even) mentioned?

Verily We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm in order to
try him: so We gave him (the gifts) of Hearing and Sight.

We showed him the Way: whether he be grateful or ungrateful
(rests on his will).


32:7-9
He Who has made everything which He has created most Good. He
began
the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay.

And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a
fluid
despised:

But He fashioned him in due proportion and breathed into him
something
of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and
sight
and
feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!


22:5
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection
(consider) that
We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a
leech-like
clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly
unformed in
order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause
whom We
will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We
bring you
out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age
offull
strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent
back to
the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having
known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and
lifeless but
when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells
and it
puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).


23:13-14
Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest
firmly
fixed;
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of
that
clot
We made a (foetus) lump; then We made out of that lump bones
and
clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed out of it
another
creature: so blessed be Allah the Best to create!

40:67
It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop
then
from a
leech-like clot; then does He get you out (into the light) as
a child:
then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then
lets
you become old
though of you there are some who die before; and lets you
reach a Term
appointed: in order that ye may learn wisdom.

75:36-38
Does Man think that he will be left uncontrolled (without
purpose)?

Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? 5829

Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (Allah) make and
fashion (him) in due proportion.

There are too much of objective evidences to support the case
of believers.

I'll be interested to hear about them.

Allah-willing in the future.

When there is the moon in the sky, for one who sees and shows
the moon
can tell there is the moon in the sky and can prove his case
by showing it. But for one who does not see the moon in the
sky there
might be many reasons. One might not see because of his
location, one
might not see because his eyes are ill, one might no see
because of
the weather conditions. All might have different reasons not
seeing
it, non of them give support to each other as they stand as
subjective. But it does not change the fact that there is
the moon in
the sky.

No-one sees radio waves, but they are there. We could
demonstrate the existence of them with objective evidence.
You need to provide similar objective evidence for the
existence of a supernatural being, if you want to be believed.

You have just testifed to many evidences to the existence of
Allah
with this view of yours.As you demonstrate the existence of
radio
waves with objective evidences, all the creation is objective
evidence
to the existence of Allah.
When you listen to the radio, or watch something on the TV you
recognize the existence of radio waves, they are seen to you
by means
of end results, but not directly. All the creation is the end
result
of the existence of Allah.

Similarly atheists may have different reasons for the
nonexistence of
god, but non of them supports each other, and they are
subjective.
For one to say there is no something he should have seen all
the
places, all the times including the before and after the
beginning of
the tim eandaftertheendofthetime.

By that argument, why do you not believe equally in all the
thousands of gods and other supernatural creatures ever
invented or imagined by humans? They are all equally lacking
in objective evidence for their non-existence. You're an
atheist with respect to every other god except your own, for
the same reason that we're atheists with respect to every god
*including* yours. You see how it works? You disbelieve in
other gods for exactly the same reason as we disbelieve in
yours.

I'm afraid you are looking at things backwards. Just as you
would (I'm sure) not demand objective evidence for the
non-existence of Zeus in order to not believe in him, so you
should not expect anyone else to prove the non-existence of
*your* god. The burden of proof is on you.

I think I explained them at above.
One should consider the befitting qualities for God, and look
for the
reliable, uncontradictory guides: Qur'an, Prophet Mohammad's
Life
peace be upon him.

If one has produced an equipment and software, then he should
proveide
a guide book for us to use that equipment with utmost benefit
to
ourselves.

Similarly, the One who created us did not leave us alone to our
devices, he provided a guide book (Qur'an) and the best
explainer of
that book (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) to us in order
for us
to use ourselves, the best equipment, properly.