| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"M. Clark" |
| Date: |
13 Aug 2003 01:34:07 PM |
| Object: |
Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:20:30 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Truth Hunter <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote:
God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE !
Read your Bible!
Does this make sense:
God takes his only son and lets him be crucified meaning to be killed
on the cross because of Adam and Eve eat one rotten APPLE?
Thank you for posting.
The forbidden fruit wasn't the issue. Disobeying God after God told
Adam not to eat it (Genesis 2:17) was the issue, a BIG issue.
Was it a big enough issue to justify God not accepting responsibility for
the actions of his creations and for God to treat his creations as disposable
play toys for his cruel games?
Thank you for replying.
Adam and Eve could have chosen to tell the Serpant no.
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 reflects the complexity of this issue.
God blames his victims rather than accepting responsibility.
You've got no good basis for that assertion.
Jesus's death doesn't change that. I'm still a moral agent who should
accept personal responsibility for my actions.
The issue is that you, and everybody else, are sinners. Hopefully you
are a repentant sinner.
I used my free will to choose not to be a sinner.
You evidently completely misunderstand the good news of the gospel.
But if you aren't a repentant sinner then return to God, believing in
his Son Jesus in faith, and have eternal life.
God is the problem, not the solution.
Thank you for your opinion.
Return to God, believing in his Son Jesus in faith, and have eternal
life.
M. Clark
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "juliekale" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
13 Aug 2003 10:46:47 PM |
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"M. Clark" <> wrote in message
news:1fzmkc9.pxajxn1fsuizqN%...
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:20:30 -0600, (M. Clark)
wrote:
<snip>
The forbidden fruit wasn't the issue. Disobeying God after God told
Adam not to eat it (Genesis 2:17) was the issue, a BIG issue.
Was it a big enough issue to justify God not accepting responsibility
for
the actions of his creations and for God to treat his creations as
disposable
play toys for his cruel games?
Thank you for replying.
Adam and Eve could have chosen to tell the Serpant no.
Certainly, and also completely irrelevant. The bible is very clear about
god's feelings on disobedience - it is a sin. But prior to their
disobedience, Adam and Eve had no concept of such, and did not gain the
knowledge of good and evil until they ate from the tree. Christians (and the
bible) take the awsome responsibility of human sin and place it on the
shoulders of two people, who quite frankly, did not know that what they were
doing was *wrong.
This is the major flaw that atheists have with this story.
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 reflects the complexity of this issue.
God blames his victims rather than accepting responsibility.
You've got no good basis for that assertion.
There is plenty of basis for it.
Firstly, god created the first two humans in total ignorance of right and
wrong, gave them a direct order not to do something, and then placed two
things in the garden that virtually assured they would do it anyway.
I ask you this - if god truly did not want - no I say *need - the fall of
humanity, why did this all powerful deity place the tree in the garden to
begin with? And why did he *allow the serpant to make a play for his brand
new ignorant little humans.
The answer is, as before, because the human fall was what god wanted before
we were even created. And instead of owning up to his own part in the
matter, god got angry and kicked them out of the garden for doing the very
thing he designed them to do.
Jesus's death doesn't change that. I'm still a moral agent who should
accept personal responsibility for my actions.
The issue is that you, and everybody else, are sinners. Hopefully you
are a repentant sinner.
I used my free will to choose not to be a sinner.
You evidently completely misunderstand the good news of the gospel.
Everybody who rejects it does, apparently.
--
Be as you are.
From alt.atheism only...Julie Kale (aa 1029)
www.juliekale.com
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
15 Aug 2003 09:30:09 AM |
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:34:07 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:20:30 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Truth Hunter <hunter77099@yahoo.com> wrote:
God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE !
Read your Bible!
Does this make sense:
God takes his only son and lets him be crucified meaning to be killed
on the cross because of Adam and Eve eat one rotten APPLE?
Thank you for posting.
The forbidden fruit wasn't the issue. Disobeying God after God told
Adam not to eat it (Genesis 2:17) was the issue, a BIG issue.
Was it a big enough issue to justify God not accepting responsibility for
the actions of his creations and for God to treat his creations as disposable
play toys for his cruel games?
Thank you for replying.
Adam and Eve could have chosen to tell the Serpant no.
In theory, yes, but in practice that would have denied God the excuse he wanted
to downgrade us.
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 reflects the complexity of this issue.
God blames his victims rather than accepting responsibility.
You've got no good basis for that assertion.
1 Corinthians 15
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection
of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
As you can see, God is blaming man when it was God who created death
and all the other bad things.
Jesus's death doesn't change that. I'm still a moral agent who should
accept personal responsibility for my actions.
The issue is that you, and everybody else, are sinners. Hopefully you
are a repentant sinner.
I used my free will to choose not to be a sinner.
You evidently completely misunderstand the good news of the gospel.
The good news is that the gospel can be safely ignored.
But if you aren't a repentant sinner then return to God, believing in
his Son Jesus in faith, and have eternal life.
God is the problem, not the solution.
Thank you for your opinion.
It's pretty obvious. All our problems come from God yet he refuses to
fix his errors.
Return to God, believing in his Son Jesus in faith, and have eternal
life.
I can't believe in such a petty God.
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
18 Aug 2003 10:27:41 AM |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
BAM
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "M. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
19 Aug 2003 05:28:40 PM |
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Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>
wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
It means that your reasoning will dead-end with respect to any possible
solution for something long before it's going to become a problem for
God.
M. Clark
BAM
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 09:47:57 AM |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:28:40 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>
wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
It means that your reasoning will dead-end with respect to any possible
solution for something long before it's going to become a problem for
God.
Just so I am sure that I understand you, "with God all things are possible" doesn't
mean "with God all things are possible", right?
Did Jesus say "with God all things are possible" just to impress people?
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "M. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 04:58:00 PM |
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Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:28:40 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>
wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
It means that your reasoning will dead-end with respect to any possible
solution for something long before it's going to become a problem for
God.
Just so I am sure that I understand you, "with God all things are
possible" doesn't mean "with God all things are possible", right?
Did Jesus say "with God all things are possible" just to impress people?
I appreciate your point. Indeed, Hebrews 11:6 shows that it is
impossible to please God without faith. However, the Bible teaches us
in Isaiah 55:8-9 that God's thought are higher than our thoughts. So
you can rest assured that when God tells us that nothing is impossible
for him then we had better believe it.
Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
M. Clark
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "Charles P" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 09:29:52 PM |
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"M. Clark" <idontreply@toemail.com> wrote in message
Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
What could possibly have been hard about it? God sat up there on
his throne, experiencing no physical pain whatsoever. He knew His
"son" would be back in a couple days, so there was none of the
anguish a human parent would have endured. And what on earth
was the rationale about having His "son" killed anyway? How could
having someone killed pay for anything? Why didn't God instead
seek the services of a competent therapist so He could get over
His feelings of anger about us sinners down here?
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 09:54:55 PM |
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"Charles P" <chuck@spammerssuck.com> wrote
What could possibly have been hard about it?
Why respond to such an insolent question?
God sat up there on
his throne, experiencing no physical pain whatsoever. He knew His
"son" would be back in a couple days, so there was none of the
anguish a human parent would have endured. And what on earth
was the rationale about having His "son" killed anyway? How could
having someone killed pay for anything? Why didn't God instead
seek the services of a competent therapist so He could get over
His feelings of anger about us sinners down here?
It was a sacrifice - Jesus Christ went to His death willingly. Jesus could
have easily been set free if He had said things that were pleasing to the
Sanhendrin.
As far as trying to understand God's nature - forget it - you never will -
none of us ever will. Just believe that He is good and that good is good.
BAM
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| User: "J.R." |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 10:45:00 PM |
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(M. Clark) wrote in message news:<1fzzktz.7nrcm1vx9ri8N%>...
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:28:40 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>
wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
It means that your reasoning will dead-end with respect to any possible
solution for something long before it's going to become a problem for
God.
Just so I am sure that I understand you, "with God all things are
possible" doesn't mean "with God all things are possible", right?
Did Jesus say "with God all things are possible" just to impress people?
I appreciate your point. Indeed, Hebrews 11:6 shows that it is
impossible to please God without faith. However, the Bible teaches us
in Isaiah 55:8-9 that God's thought are higher than our thoughts. So
you can rest assured that when God tells us that nothing is impossible
for him then we had better believe it.
Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
M. Clark
Hard? The hardest thing that God ever did?
Didn't he plan that little escapade forever? Didn't he have all of
the details worked out long befor he put his plan into action?
Didn't Jesus finish growing up in Heaven with daddy? (at his right
hand, if the christians are right)
By-the-way, Jesus is wanted for stealing nails. The nails that were
used to hold him down, were never recovered. He is suspected of
taking them with him and trading them for fresh bandages.
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "Sean W. Ellis" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
21 Aug 2003 03:45:18 PM |
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Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
Precisely. Now, for this to be part of God's plan there had to be sin
and a penalty. God made sure that Adam and Eve would fail, and has
everyone pay for their folly.
Jesus would have had no need to exist if God hadn't put the damn tree
within A&E's reach and let Satan be in the garden and not protected Eve
from Him.
Guess He just isn't THAT omnipotent....
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
20 Aug 2003 09:38:18 PM |
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:58:00 -0600, (M. Clark)
wrote:
Did Jesus say "with God all things are possible" just to impress people?
I appreciate your point. Indeed, Hebrews 11:6 shows that it is
impossible to please God without faith. However, the Bible teaches us
in Isaiah 55:8-9 that God's thought are higher than our thoughts. So
you can rest assured that when God tells us that nothing is impossible
for him then we had better believe it.
Bit of a problem: the bible is rather contradictionary on that point.
Besides, the quoting bible doesn't proof anything at all. Merely that
you can find the quotes to support you needs for the moment.
Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
God killed god to attone for the mistakes god made. Only god cannot be
killed... Being dead for three days (actually not more than 36 hours)
is not really a big deal. Certainly not for a god.
If I make a mistake, and kill someone or someting to atone for it,
does that correct my mistake?
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
22 Aug 2003 08:02:36 AM |
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:58:00 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:28:40 -0600, (M. Clark) wrote:
Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:55:39 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>
wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
According to Jesus, God planned from the beginning to downgrade us.
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Mark 14:36
Do you believe Jesus?
To answer your question, yes.
But as to the first remark, you have grossly misinterpreted those passages
which say that with God all things are possible.
What does "with God all things are possible" mean?
It means that your reasoning will dead-end with respect to any possible
solution for something long before it's going to become a problem for
God.
Just so I am sure that I understand you, "with God all things are
possible" doesn't mean "with God all things are possible", right?
Did Jesus say "with God all things are possible" just to impress people?
I appreciate your point. Indeed, Hebrews 11:6 shows that it is
impossible to please God without faith.
So if God revealed himself to us in an unambiguous way we could not please
him? What a strange God. No love there.
However, the Bible teaches us
in Isaiah 55:8-9 that God's thought are higher than our thoughts.
I can't see that being the case. Surely our thoughts have become higher since
God was invented.
So you can rest assured that when God tells us that nothing is impossible
for him then we had better believe it.
That invalidates many things that Christians say about God. It is meaningless to
say that God will do something, or God is working on something, or God can't
do something without something else, or there is something God doesn't approve
of.
Also note that God has already done the hardest thing he will ever have
to do by sending his Son Jesus to be crucified to pay the penalty for
our sins.
You don't understand. All things are possible for God means there is nothing
that is hard for God.
Besides, the stupid ritual did nothing but appease God. If God wanted to
correct his errors to give us a good life he would have done so.
M. Clark
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
22 Aug 2003 12:02:35 PM |
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"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
Besides, the stupid ritual did nothing but appease God. If God wanted to
correct his errors to give us a good life he would have done so.
Sure. We could have been created as robots. Would you have preferred that?
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
23 Aug 2003 11:14:10 AM |
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"OldguyTeck" <ecrot@comcast.net> wrote
Hey BAM how are ya..?
Good as gold.
Oh! I want 2 of those robots...LOL One to wash and
the other to dry....:)
After they cook and clean?
Praise Gods holy name.
I was diagnosed with pancratic cancer but I'm doing rather well these past
several days... I have a feeling:)
Be well, and God bless all.
Ed....................(OldguyTeck)
Hope things go well. We'll pray for you.
BAM
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
23 Aug 2003 09:55:31 AM |
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"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message news:<3Qr1b.261$jd.92@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>...
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
Besides, the stupid ritual did nothing but appease God. If God wanted to
correct his errors to give us a good life he would have done so.
Sure. We could have been created as robots. Would you have preferred that?
God seems to.
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
23 Aug 2003 11:23:08 AM |
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"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:d58e3ac.0308230655.28283ec7@posting.google.com...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:<3Qr1b.261$jd.92@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>...
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
Besides, the stupid ritual did nothing but appease God. If God wanted
to
correct his errors to give us a good life he would have done so.
Sure. We could have been created as robots. Would you have preferred
that?
God seems to.
Wrong. God gave us all talents and we can run free with them. You perceive
doing God's will as a form of slavery, but doing God's will is what we would
do if it were easy enough. But we're in conflict. We need to be liberated
from another form of slavery, that is, to our appetites, so that we can be
free to *do what we ought*.
BAM
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
24 Aug 2003 11:35:47 AM |
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"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness. Merely trying to convey to me a true impression of yourself is due
to your "godlike" nature.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
If god did not want robots, why does he get so upset that he doesn't
have robots?
Hard to answer that one because I don't agree with the planted axiom. God
does not want us to be robots. God wants us to trust Him, whether we
understand the command or not. It's an act of love.
The bible appears to me to be one story after another
about god being angry because we aren't doing what he wants us to do,
the big one being, of course, worshipping him.
Something like that.......
BAM
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
24 Aug 2003 11:54:37 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:35:47 -0400 in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, bam ("bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness. Merely trying to convey to me a true impression of yourself is due
to your "godlike" nature.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
Actually it does!
Consider: God knows everything. So He knows precisely what would
convince me that He exists. He's also all powerful, so it would cost
Him nothing to provide me with whatever it is. He's also infinitely
loving, which is to say that He loves, amongst others, me, so He's
well motivated to provide me with this information.
QED, the fact that I don't believe indicates there's no such thing as
an all powerful, all knowing, and all loving God.
That was easy, eh?!
If god did not want robots, why does he get so upset that he doesn't
have robots?
Hard to answer that one because I don't agree with the planted axiom. God
does not want us to be robots. God wants us to trust Him, whether we
understand the command or not. It's an act of love.
The bible appears to me to be one story after another
about god being angry because we aren't doing what he wants us to do,
the big one being, of course, worshipping him.
Something like that.......
BAM
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
24 Aug 2003 11:38:11 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:40:44 GMT in alt.atheism, Charles P ("Charles
P" <chuck@spammerssuck.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
bam ("bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>) said,
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness.
I've always felt that the originator of this concept really had
in mind the reverse. The OT god shows far too many human
traits which are typically petty and pathetic, not fitting at all
for the designer of a universe we now know to be infinitely
larger than the concept of universe of 3000 years ago.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
Well, you can't prove a negative.
Consider: God knows everything. So He knows precisely what would
convince me that He exists. He's also all powerful, so it would cost
Him nothing to provide me with whatever it is. He's also infinitely
loving, which is to say that He loves, amongst others, me, so He's
well motivated to provide me with this information.
QED, the fact that I don't believe indicates there's no such thing as
an all powerful, all knowing, and all loving God.
That was easy, eh?!
Nope, the bible writers and promoters all anticipated your objection
and came up with the idea of blind faith, of the necessity of believing
with no evidence. Clever rascals, eh?
Perhaps, but then the "faith" criteria if nothing else indicates that
whatever else this God might be, it's not "omni-everything".
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
24 Aug 2003 11:05:39 PM |
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"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:npqhkvo0fjhnpo9hf48nctnm4eed6adnme@4ax.com...
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:35:47 -0400 in
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, bam ("bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness. Merely trying to convey to me a true impression of yourself is
due
to your "godlike" nature.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
Actually it does!
Consider: God knows everything. So He knows precisely what would
convince me that He exists. He's also all powerful, so it would cost
Him nothing to provide me with whatever it is. He's also infinitely
loving, which is to say that He loves, amongst others, me, so He's
well motivated to provide me with this information.
QED, the fact that I don't believe indicates there's no such thing as
an all powerful, all knowing, and all loving God.
That was easy, eh?!
Yes. Living in an imaginary world where you are prosecutor, judge and jury
is lovely isn;t it?
BAM
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
25 Aug 2003 02:00:29 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:35:47 -0400, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness. Merely trying to convey to me a true impression of yourself is due
to your "godlike" nature.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
Actually, the argument from non-belief is one of the best arguments
against Gods existence.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/aeanb.html
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
30 Aug 2003 10:10:41 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:35:47 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote
I don't "perceive doing god's will" at all;
You do His will unwittingly, because you are made in God's image and
likeness.
That does explain why there is so much strife in the world.
God must have the ultimate MPD.
Merely trying to convey to me a true impression of yourself is due
to your "godlike" nature.
I don't believe in god.
That doesn't disprove God's existence.
God can't exist if people don't believe in him.
If god did not want robots, why does he get so upset that he doesn't
have robots?
Hard to answer that one because I don't agree with the planted axiom. God
does not want us to be robots. God wants us to trust Him, whether we
understand the command or not. It's an act of love.
You need to point out that God's ways are not our ways and that God's idea
of love is not our idea of love.
God needs to learn what causes people to trust.
The bible appears to me to be one story after another
about god being angry because we aren't doing what he wants us to do,
the big one being, of course, worshipping him.
Something like that.......
God needs to understand that we can only be what he makes us, and that
if we stuff up it is because he stuffed up.
BAM
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
30 Aug 2003 10:10:24 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:23:08 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"JessHC" <jesshc@phantomemail.com> wrote in message
news:d58e3ac.0308230655.28283ec7@posting.google.com...
"bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote in message
news:<3Qr1b.261$jd.92@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>...
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
Besides, the stupid ritual did nothing but appease God. If God wanted
to
correct his errors to give us a good life he would have done so.
Sure. We could have been created as robots. Would you have preferred
that?
God seems to.
Wrong. God gave us all talents and we can run free with them. You perceive
doing God's will as a form of slavery, but doing God's will is what we would
do if it were easy enough. But we're in conflict. We need to be liberated
from another form of slavery, that is, to our appetites, so that we can be
free to *do what we ought*.
That's just another way that God toys with us. He gives us needs and desires
then condemns us when we respond to them. .
BAM
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: God KILLED his SON for one rotten APPLE ! |
30 Aug 2003 10:10:10 AM |
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On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:18:40 -0400, "bam" <mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"Barry OGrady" <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com> wrote
Or we could have been created as we are but in a friendly world and with a
nature
that made us get along.
Sounds good to me. Are we unable to accomplish this using our own will?
Our will is not that free.
Should God forbid us from committing evil?
God should remove our desire to do evil.
Wouldn't we then be robots?
No, because all things are possible for God.
You seem to want to limit God to your capabilities.
Don't know how you arrived at this.
You thought God could not make things better for us without making us robots.
According to the Bible Adam and Eve were placed in a friendly place and
were not
originally intended to get sick or die. Were they robots?
No. They were filled with sanctifying grace. But apparently Eve wouldn't get
her mind off that one tree.
It seems that God arranged things that way.
Do you think that God has given up on treating us decently because of his
failure in the garden?
According to the Bible, before Genesis 11 men were getting along with each
other and peace reined. Were they robots?
What men?
According to Genesis 11, all men were at peace, speaking one language, and
working together. God put an end to that. Were they robots?
Do you believe that all things are possible for God or did Jesus lie?
I really don't understand the significance of this phrase you're hooked on.
But to answer the question, yes, no. But I don't accept the either/or
proposition.
Jesus claimed that all things are possible for God. If true, that means
everything is always as God wants it.
BAM
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
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