| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Nomen Nescio" |
| Date: |
08 Jul 2007 02:10:05 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Guidance needed |
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007, Aticineto <Aticineto@aol.com> wrote:
Greetings all,
I am new to this group, and I have been dealing with conflicting
emotions ofr the past two weeks, and I hope you can give me some
spiritual guidance.
You've probably heard about the sad case of wrestler Chris Benoit, how
murdered his wife Nancy and his 7 year old son Daniel before taking
his own life. My greatest sympathy, of course is for Nancy and
Daniel, they were innocent victims, and definitely did not deserve to
die as they did. Still, I can't help but feel a little sad for Chris
as well.
First, a little about myself so I can give you an idea of where i am
coming from. I am 43 years old, legally blind, and I have been a
wrestling fan for 31 years. In school, I was always the kid that the
others made fun of. As an adult, you learn to manage and deal with a
disability, and when you are a kid, you hate anything that makes you
different. While at a friend's house one day (back in 1976), he had
wrestling on, and I was taken buy the individuality of the sport. It
was a world where it was okay to be different, and hardly anyone had
the body builder, steroid induced look you see in wrestling today.
The business was different too - it gave the illusion of a competitive
sport, rather than the over the top choreographed )and dangerous)
moves they perform today.
One story that stuck me back then was that of a wrestler named Bobby
Shane, who died in a plane crash in 1975. Just something about his
story moved me, and I carried it with me into adulthood. In 2002, I
wrote a story about him, and took my first ever plane trip, a trip in
honor of Bobby's memory, to his hometown of St. Louis. There i met
his uncle Larry, and despite a gap in our ages (Larry is 36 years
older than me), he has become the best friend I have ever had. . I
also attend an annual reunion of retired wrestlers, (where last year,
I accepted a posthumous award for Bobby Shane on behalf of his
family). So, in a very real way, wrestling has been a very important
part of my life, and, in a small way, i am a part of that world.
Again, it is a vastly different world than the current wreslting (the
WWE), which I watch from time to time, but i am not a huge fan of.
Chris Benoit was a wrestler that most of us old-time fans admired. He
wrestled in a style that was reminiscent to the heroes of our youth.
He was pretty much a low key wrestler, and we never heard much about
his life away from the ring.
On Monday, June 25, I, like many fans, learned that Benoit and his
family were found dead. In those initial hours, we had very little
information. We thought maybe carbon monoxide poisoning, or something
to that
effect. We mourned Chris Benoit that evening, but our shock turned to
horror as it was revealed that ti was a double murder/suicide. It
seemed so out of character for Benoit to do this, but, of course, we
only knew the man we saw at the arena and on television, we didn't
know him on a personal level.
There are many theories flying around, people trying to explain why he
did what he did. In my case, I am not trying to make excuses for
Chris Benoit, rather, I am trying to understand it all. I've never
known anyone who was killed, anyone who murdered anyone, or committed
suicide. Because of my connection with wrestling (through Bobby Shane
and the wrestling reunion i attend as well), I feel like I almost knew
Benoit by default - we were a part of wrestling, though in very
different ways. And since all this came out, I am trying to come to
grips with it and make some kind of sense of what happened.
There have been many friends of Benoit's who have stated on the news
shows what a kind and gentle guy he was. They don't understand how
he could have done this. Two video clips stand out in my mind - one
of him sobbing uncontrollably at the tribute to his best friend -
fellow wrestler Eddie Guerero - who died two years ago. The other is
of Benoit winning the world title at WrestleMania. Nancy and Daniel
came into the ring to celebrate with him, and Chris hugs and kisses
Daniel. It is such a tender moment, you would never believe in a
million years that Benoit would harm a hair on the boy's head, much
less murder him.
Then, there is the dark side of Chris Benoit. The one that Nancy
filed for divorce from in 2003 and got an order of protection
against. For whatever reason, Nancy decided to reconcile with him,
but by some accounts, their relationship remained rocky.
The theory that seems to be pretty much accepted right now is that
Nancy was planning to leave Chris for good. Instead of getting away
safely while he was on the road, she (courageously) waited to tell him
face to face, and he was enraged and killed her, and then he killed
their son the next day, and himself the day after that, and he left
bibles by Nancy and Daniel's bodies (can you tell me what the
reasoning for that may be. I'm assuming that was his way of praying
for them perhaps?). If this is indeed how it happened, it is
horrifying to say the least. As stated above, neither Nancy nor
Daniel deserved to die like that. I am a man of faith, so I believe
that they are with our Lord now and are in a much better place, but
that still doesn't ease the pain of their family and friends.
I look at a picture of Chris Benoit and I ask "why? Not as a
wrestling fan wanting to know why a great wrestler destroyed his
legacy, but why a man who had more than most people chose to do the
unthinkable. He and Nancy had a stormy marriage form the start, but
she loved him. After his friend Eddie Guererro died, she bought him a
journal to record his thoughts and to work his way through his grief.
How or why did he lash out at a woman who loved him, and tried to
stick by him? Sometime we do lash out most at the people who love us
the most. It just makes no sense.
I pray for Nancy and Daniel, but my sadness for Chris makes me pray
for him as well. Jesus said that for God, all things are possible,
and I do pray that if there was ever any good in Chris Benoit, that he
found salvation despite his acts.
Before all this, I saw things in black and white terms. A murderer
was a murderer, and I thought it was foolish to try to understand why
someone would kill. But now, I am the one looking to understand it, I
see articles where he is called a child killer, and it breaks my heart
that that's his legacy.
So I ask you, is it misguided of me to have such sympathy (sadness,
compassion) for a man who committed such a horrible act? I know he is
not the victim here (and believe me, I have sadness for the victims),
but I sadness for him as well.
Thank you for your time,
Sincerely,
Alfred T
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
You sound sincere, so I'll attempt to help you to answer your own
question, because all the real answers are within you, so it's up
to you to discover these answers for yourself...
Remember this, all men are Created equal, and all mortal men are
born in sin. Each one of us are born with more than enough bad
karma to go around for everybody. We are essentially born to die,
and of whatever cause, and at whatever age, whether in childhood
or adulthood, by the revolutions of the heavens, as foreordained.
The best way to conquer grief is to conquer--rather master--your
own ego-self. The more love and attention you direct toward God,
and therefore direct toward your fellow human beings, the better
off you'll be. This frail, mortal, human body could die tomorrow,
but our immortal soul-body is eternal, having no beginning, and
no ending. Your spirit-person, your soul, is immortal, as are the
immortal souls of all higher vertebrates (ever-developing souls).
In conclusion, try to help others, including those temporarily-
discarnate souls who're grounded in Limbo, such as the troubled
immortal souls of murder victims often are. Help them toward the
Light, just as you would help the souls of your fellow man find
the Light whilst yet incarnate in the mortal body. The Light is
the Light of Jesus Christ, which is the very same Light that is
in all men. Help others to find the Light, that you may find it
also. I know, that's a lot easier said than done, in a world of
hideously dark, evil, self-aggrandizing, mammon-worshipping men.
If you care so much about the discarnate souls of Chris Benoit
& his immediate family, pray for them. Or even take the time to
actually visit the crime scene, and hold a seance for them, and
ask them if they need help moving toward the Light. Consult a
reputable psychic medium, psychic detective, like those gifted
psychics who help law-enforcement professionals solve unsolved
murders and other hideous crimes. Or consult an orthodox priest,
a shaman, anyone whom you trust. Make your own personal effort,
if it means that much to you. Otherwise, simply accept what is,
pray the LORD's prayer in earnest, & let the dead bury the dead.
Hope that helps,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 01:02:19 AM |
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"Nomen Nescio"
Aticineto
So I ask you, is it misguided of me to have such sympathy
(sadness,
compassion) for a man who committed such a horrible act?
I know he is
not the victim here (and believe me, I have sadness for
the victims),
but I sadness for him as well....
Alfred T
If you care so much about the discarnate souls of Chris
Benoit
& his immediate family, pray for them. Or even take the
time to
actually visit the crime scene, and hold a seance for
them, and
ask them if they need help moving toward the Light.
Consult a
reputable psychic medium, psychic detective, like those
gifted
psychics who help law-enforcement professionals solve
unsolved
murders and other hideous crimes. Or consult an orthodox
priest,
a shaman, anyone whom you trust. Make your own personal
effort,
if it means that much to you. Otherwise, simply accept
what is,
pray the LORD's prayer in earnest, & let the dead bury the
dead.
Hope that helps,
Daniel Joseph Min
Jesus did not endorse psychics, Daniel. But I will say this,
on behalf of the person who has compassion for Chris
Benoit. All men deserve love and understanding. When we
connect with some part of society, we feel for that part of
society. We experience what that group experiences. And
having compassion is nothing to be ashamed of. In Alfred's
own words, he has compassion for the victims as well. He
does not condone the murder.
So all Alfred is doing is feeling the disappointment in what
normally might be a relatively decent part of life.
Wrestling has long been a form of entertainment, and it must
be understood that there is a dark side to many of these
kinds of entertainment. If you're going to enjoy things like
boxing or wrestling, or even comedy, you're going to have to
understand that it's stll part of the world that God loves,
and it's going to have its seedy side.
To get closure on these kinds of things, we have to look at
all the facts. We can't make final decisions about things
where there is less than the whole picture. My suggestion is
that you recognize that people are both bad and good, and
that the good needs to outweigh the bad. So we should let
the dead rest and focus on those who are still making these
kinds of decisions in their lives.
randy
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 11:20:45 AM |
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On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
Jesus did not endorse psychics, Daniel.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I do realize that everyone has their own, individually-unique
religion. So that's your right to believe whatever you choose
to believe, however much I humbly happen to disagree with you.
Below is a transcript from a Thursday June 7th interview with
James van Praagh, which I've reposted below--if not for yours,
then for other, perhaps less orthodox-minded readers' benefit.
Enjoy!
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
_____________________________________________________________
I was inspired by the Thursday morning FOXNEWS interview with
'Ghost Whisperer' psychic James van Praagh (Moon sojourn born
in Bayside, NY [73w47; 40n46], Saturday 23 August 1958, about
4:18 PM EDT, based on Praagh's interview with T Elmanovich on
Oct 9, 1996). Here is his natal chart on the Astrodienst site
(I did Praagh's natal chart back in 2002, but with inaccurate
"4:30 PM" birth time. I've corrected this chart and horoscope):
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=galfiler4ayMo-u1181237889;lang=e;gm=a1;btyp=2;mth=gw;sday=7;smon=6;syr=2007;hsy=4;zod=-s;orbp=;rs=0;add=18;add=19;add=20;node=-Yn;fix=1;ast=;nhor=1;nho2=1
I recorded Praagh's interview which aired from 8:47 - 8:56 AM
EDT, and carefully transcribed most of the highlights from it:
Praagh: "That's your intuition, and the more you use that,
the stronger it becomes. And everybody can do that.
You intuit it. So if you use it every day, it's
like a muscle; the more you use it, the more it
develops."
"I see dead people, feel dead people, and hear dead
people" ... "Heaven could be here to, so you can't
look at the dimensions like the three dimensional
world is all there is. They're inter-dimensional,
so fourth, fifth, sixth, dimension are inter-
penetrating this dimension."
Doocy: "You know, there are a lot of people, James, who
think you're making it up."
Praagh: "Good! (gleeful chuckles), good for them, they have
a right to. But people who have experience with me
know differently."
Carlson: "There are also other people, who are Christians
mainly, who sometimes believe that this is some
sort of witchcraft, or maybe, you know, flying in
the face of religion. So how do you respond to
that?"
Praagh: "I know, I'm the devil, I know. I say that Jesus
was a medium, because Jesus was able to contact,
the, you know, these people in spirit. You know,
it's a whole, it's built upon, we are built upon,
or rather Christianity is built upon believing in
faith, believing in people you don't see, or
beings you don't see. It's the same thing."
"I was given this gift from god. I certainly
didn't make this stuff up. As a kid, that movie
'Sixth Sense' was my life! I didn't ask for this.
You think I'd go around asking to be ridiculed
all the time? You know, but I have to do it,
because the work is so strong and powerful."
(returning from commercial break)
Doocy: "All right, as James van Praagh just told us stuff
that we had not told him, and it was all accurate,
and it is pretty freaky."
Praagh: "Your guides, your guidance" ... "I call them
angels" ... "You know, just because they passed
out of the body doesn't mean that they're not
around watching us. They're watching us all the
time. It happens all the time."
Doocy: "www.vanpraagh.com, live seances and chats every
Tuesday."
[end partial transcript; pardon omissions, and any errors]
__________________________________________________________
There's no question that James van Praagh is *very* psychic
"All mediums are psychics, but not all psychics are mediums."
He even names his sojourning planet, and two ruling planets,
in his natal horoscope, to wit: the Moon, first heaven--4th
dimension; Mercury, second heaven--5th dimension; and Venus,
third heaven--6th dimension! Albeit I don't believe that he
was consciously aware of this, in the judicial astrological
sense. In the aforecited interview with T Elmanovich (1996),
Praagh makes several tropical astrology comments regarding
his birth chart, but no mention of his planetary horoscope...
Which clearly shows that his psyche is of the Moon sojourn
in the seventh house, rising aloft evening Libra Ascendant.
Venus ruling in the second house, extreme passion for life.
Mercury is ruling in the third house, just five hours past
inferior conjunction, ergo, strongly-focused communication,
part of fortune second decan near maximum benign and facile.
Head of the Dragon on the midheaven ingresses fourth house.
Jupiter in the fifth house jovial, mystical, for posterity.
Saturn sixth house, reflective intellect. Dragon's tail in
the tenth house, for society. Mars with Spirit in eleventh
house, vitality, heavenly forecast, for friends.
--adjudicated by Daniel Joseph Min 8 June 2007
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 07:31:14 PM |
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"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
"randy"
I do realize that everyone has their own,
individually-unique
religion. So that's your right to believe whatever you
choose
to believe, however much I humbly happen to disagree with
you.
Below is a transcript from a Thursday June 7th interview
with
James van Praagh, which I've reposted below--if not for
yours,
then for other, perhaps less orthodox-minded readers'
benefit.
You seem like a nice person, Daniel, and very sincere.
However, you're not really touching on the point, as far as
I'm concerned. It isn't enough to know we can communicate
with invisible spirits or predict the future. Producing
"miracles" is not the issue. In fact, the Law of Moses
opposed the producing of miracles outside of activities that
were specifically allowed. Prophets were allowed to
communicate the will of God and predict the future. But they
were not allowed to communicate with the dead unless God
Himself imposed that experience upon them. We are not to
pursue spirits beyond this present life, for whatever reason
God had for saying this.
I think the danger is in focusing outside of the world that
is to be our concern, the earth. If we go beyond the
environment that God has put us in, we are transgressing our
bounds. Yes, we need to communicate with God, a spirit. But
we don't need to communicate with beings who once were in
this world and are here no longer. We don't need to
communicate with spirits that can impersonate good people
that have departed. In rebelling against God's stated will
and indulging in these kinds of psychic phenomena, God will
hand us over to the will of beings greater than us, who will
exploit us. In this state of being we cannot be blessed of
God.
We shouldn't see the greatest blessing as being able to
predict the future and contact the spirit world. Rather, we
can find our need for supernatural experience in God alone.
He alone is to be our reference point beyond this present
world, unless of course He brings supernatural or spiritual
experiences to us. Since we cannot do these things in and of
ourselves, we should not seek this *power,* which is a form
of desiring *control.* Control belongs to God alone, who
will guide our lives for our best, if we let Him.
randy
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 08:40:18 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" wrote:
I do realize that everyone has their own,
individually-unique
religion. So that's your right to believe whatever you
choose
to believe, however much I humbly happen to disagree with
you.
Below is a transcript from a Thursday June 7th interview
with
James van Praagh, which I've reposted below--if not for
yours,
then for other, perhaps less orthodox-minded readers'
benefit.
You seem like a nice person, Daniel, and very sincere.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sincere, Yes. Nice? I'm not so sure about that. There's an old
proverb which warned against confusing kindness with weakness.
I don't recall where I heard it, but it's pretty fair advice
(something like "best friend, worst enemy". You get the idea).
However, you're not really touching on the point, as far as
I'm concerned.
Whereby you have iterated my previous point, which is that
civilized people can agree to disagree. Because in reality,
no two people have ever agreed on everything. That's why we
each have our own individual religion, our own experiences,
our own beliefs, opinions, etc. You have yours. I have mine.
Your concerns are plainly not my concerns, ergo we disagree.
It isn't enough to know we can communicate
with invisible spirits or predict the future. Producing
"miracles" is not the issue.
Well, I "could" go climb Mt. Everest next week! I "could" do
that, but the fact of the matter is, I've never done it, and
the probability that this fifty-year old human frame of mine
ever will is less than my chances of being elected President
of The United States of America. Make of that what you will.
In fact, the Law of Moses
<snips>
Well, I wouldn't know. I have never read the sacred scriptures.
But I digress facetiously. Sarcasm does but to entertain. I'll
go back to being "civilized", and "nice". That's all I can do. :)
Sincerely,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 08:50:31 PM |
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"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
"randy"
Well, I wouldn't know. I have never read the sacred
scriptures.
But I digress facetiously. Sarcasm does but to entertain.
I'll
go back to being "civilized", and "nice". That's all I can
do. :)
OK, Daniel, have it your way. You're not nice. You amuse
yourself and are self-absorbed. Too bad.
The point is, the Law of Moses condemned psychic practises.
You post to numerous ngs, including alt.messianic.
Christians and Jews are on alt.messianic, and many of us
find it right and proper to condemn your practise as
something immoral.
randy
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 10:25:57 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
Well, I wouldn't know. I have never read the sacred
scriptures.
But I digress facetiously. Sarcasm does but to entertain.
I'll
go back to being "civilized", and "nice". That's all I can
do. :)
OK, Daniel, have it your way. You're not nice.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
See? You've learned something that you didn't know before
my last reply. We all learn everyday, and hopefully learn
from it, lest we repeat our prior mistakes. As wise Vergil
said, "Fortune favors the bold". Indeed she does in Spades!
You amuse
yourself and are self-absorbed. Too bad.
I do find life both deadly-serious and wonderfully-amazing.
Too bad? I don't see individualism, nor civil disagreement,
as being necessarily a bad thing. But your mileage may vary.
Wasn't it Siddhartha, the Buddha, who said "If you meet me
on the path cut my bloody head off!" 'Tis food for thought.
The point is, the Law of Moses condemned psychic practises.
Which you yourself don't actually do, neither have you ever
in your present lifetime actually done, as you've repeatedly
made it a point to point out. Is that your point? Repeating
the same specific point over and over and over is redundant.
There are other human beings who actually do the "forbidden"
things, and many other things, which you personally believe
are to be avoided, or perhaps evaded--perhaps a bit of both?
Personally, I'm more impressed with people who actually *do*
the things they talk about, versus those who're little more
than "armchair quarterbacks". Show me first. Don't tell me
about things you're not expert in and a seasoned-veteran of,
first-hand, up close, and personal. Shew faith by thy works!
You post to numerous ngs, including alt.messianic.
I do as I will, as sovereign. I would that all men were so.
There's an old renaissance-period major arcana Tarot card
of 'The Devil', which depicts a naked man and naked woman
standing in shackles which are nine sizes too big! Meaning
they could very easily free themselves from their lifetime
of bondage at any time. Yet they choose not to. Go figure?
Christians and Jews are on alt.messianic, and many of us
find it right and proper to condemn your practise as
something immoral.
Which is, again, your sovereign right. Please continue to
adjudge all things occult for better and for worse as you
personally will. But you've subordinated to "group-think",
to their cookie-cutter, robotically-brainwashed mentality.
I mean this as no insult for I, too, was indoctrinated of
the world, to believe, to think, to speak, to act, as I'd
been misled by misleaders who'd themselves been similarly
misled by their indoctrinators, & so on back to antiquity.
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
10 Jul 2007 11:20:36 PM |
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"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
"randy"
OK, Daniel, have it your way. You're not nice.
See? You've learned something that you didn't know before
my last reply. We all learn everyday, and hopefully learn
from it, lest we repeat our prior mistakes. As wise Vergil
said, "Fortune favors the bold". Indeed she does in
Spades!
I don't have a problem if you're comfortable feeling you've
arrived at the pinnacle of wisdom. I'm only expressing my
views, in the hope you'll realize, you haven't arrived.
I do find life both deadly-serious and
wonderfully-amazing.
Too bad? I don't see individualism, nor civil
disagreement,
as being necessarily a bad thing. But your mileage may
vary.
Wasn't it Siddhartha, the Buddha, who said "If you meet me
on the path cut my bloody head off!" 'Tis food for
thought.
Yes, disagreement can benefit us, which is the whole point.
The point is, the Law of Moses condemned psychic
practises.
Which you yourself don't actually do, neither have you
ever
in your present lifetime actually done, as you've
repeatedly
made it a point to point out. Is that your point?
Repeating
the same specific point over and over and over is
redundant.
There are other human beings who actually do the
"forbidden"
things, and many other things, which you personally
believe
are to be avoided, or perhaps evaded--perhaps a bit of
both?
Yes, my point in other posts have repeatedly claimed that
the Law is a broken contract. I have not at all claimed,
however, that the Law was *never* in effect. It was. So the
point is that Christians and Jews have a moral system that
finds psychic practices ungodly and forbidden.
Personally, I'm more impressed with people who actually
*do*
the things they talk about, versus those who're little
more
than "armchair quarterbacks". Show me first. Don't tell me
about things you're not expert in and a seasoned-veteran
of,
first-hand, up close, and personal. Shew faith by thy
works!
I'm not interested in promoting the Law of Moses today. I'm
promoting a morality that was part of the Law and
which is now fulfilled in Jesus. It is not a righteousness
that is anymore connected to the Law of Moses.
You post to numerous ngs, including alt.messianic.
I do as I will, as sovereign. I would that all men were
so.
There's an old renaissance-period major arcana Tarot card
of 'The Devil', which depicts a naked man and naked woman
standing in shackles which are nine sizes too big! Meaning
they could very easily free themselves from their lifetime
of bondage at any time. Yet they choose not to. Go figure?
If man is shackled to the Devil at all, it is the result of
our sin nature dominating us. I believe the only way we can
be free of this sin nature is by submission to Jesus as lord
over all. Jesus is lord over all devils and all of mankind.
He's lord over everything. So in his name you can be free of
shackles that really do fit our wrists and ankles. They
aren't "nine sizes too big."
Which is, again, your sovereign right. Please continue to
adjudge all things occult for better and for worse as you
personally will. But you've subordinated to "group-think",
to their cookie-cutter, robotically-brainwashed mentality.
I mean this as no insult for I, too, was indoctrinated of
the world, to believe, to think, to speak, to act, as I'd
been misled by misleaders who'd themselves been similarly
misled by their indoctrinators, & so on back to antiquity.
So you've been misled away from positive psychic
experiences? Strange logic from my Christian pov!
randy
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
11 Jul 2007 12:42:44 AM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
<snips>
I don't have a problem if
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Good for you. I have problems because I am a sinner. Capice?
you're comfortable feeling you've
arrived at the pinnacle of wisdom.
Much rather, mine soul hath quite recently departed therefrom.
I'm only expressing my
views,
Which is your God-given right. May all humble men follow suit.
in the hope you'll realize, you haven't arrived.
Hope no further. I know I haven't, and I'm eternally grateful
that I never will; rather, I know already that I *never* will.
my point
Which makes wholly four repetitions of your point ad nauseam.
Sing a new song already! Oh wait, I see below you already are...
If man is shackled to the Devil at all,
We mere mortals canst not ever be otherwise, lest we are dead.
it is the result of
our sin nature dominating us.
Voilla! We have agreement. There's a first time for everything.
I believe the only way we can
be free of this sin nature is by submission to Jesus as lord
over all.
Dittos ad infinitum. HE is what unites the ekklesia of Christ.
Jesus is lord over all devils and all of mankind.
He's lord over everything. So in his name you can be free of
shackles that really do fit our wrists and ankles. They
aren't "nine sizes too big."
It's but a metaphor for the nine rungs on the heavenly ladder,
the circles, spheres, planes, dimensions etc. of heaven & hell.
Which is, again, your sovereign right. Please continue to
adjudge all things occult for better and for worse as you
personally will. But you've subordinated to "group-think",
to their cookie-cutter, robotically-brainwashed mentality.
I mean this as no insult for I, too, was indoctrinated of
the world, to believe, to think, to speak, to act, as I'd
been misled by misleaders who'd themselves been similarly
misled by their indoctrinators, & so on back to antiquity.
So you've been misled away from positive psychic
experiences? Strange logic from my Christian pov!
I've been oft-misled and like all mortal men am continually
misled: tempted into indulgence, to eat, to partake, of the
sacred tree of life -- by the devil-incarnate, the ego-self.
Only Chirst-crucified has the power to deliver me from this.
If you and I can agree on this much, then we are Christians.
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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bxpWaZEPOAqeXtNhDBnoL/Pz
=Hymw
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
11 Jul 2007 01:14:11 AM |
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"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
"randy"
I don't have a problem if
Good for you. I have problems because I am a sinner.
Capice?
I wish you wouldn't be so esoteric or quirky. Either you're
insulted that I think you're a sinner. Or you freely admit
you're a sinner, and hope to work on that problem?
you're comfortable feeling you've
arrived at the pinnacle of wisdom.
Much rather, mine soul hath quite recently departed
therefrom.
Oh please! You want to prove your wisdom by claiming you
have none?
in the hope you'll realize, you haven't arrived.
Hope no further. I know I haven't, and I'm eternally
grateful
that I never will; rather, I know already that I *never*
will.
I don't have any illusions about your confidence in
yourself. But resigning yourself to eternal ignorance is
foolish.
If man is shackled to the Devil at all,
We mere mortals canst not ever be otherwise, lest we are
dead.
You're chained to a sin nature. Only Christ can set you
free.
it is the result of
our sin nature dominating us.
Voilla! We have agreement. There's a first time for
everything.
Why does this surprise you? I don't even know you.
Jesus is lord over all devils and all of mankind.
He's lord over everything. So in his name you can be free
of
shackles that really do fit our wrists and ankles. They
aren't "nine sizes too big."
It's but a metaphor for the nine rungs on the heavenly
ladder,
the circles, spheres, planes, dimensions etc. of heaven &
hell.
I'm not sure that's important. It's like a person with a
large vocabulary who says very little. I'd like to
understand, but you have to try to be a little more clear.
So you've been misled away from positive psychic
experiences? Strange logic from my Christian pov!
I've been oft-misled and like all mortal men am
continually
misled: tempted into indulgence, to eat, to partake, of
the
sacred tree of life -- by the devil-incarnate, the
ego-self.
Only Chirst-crucified has the power to deliver me from
this.
If you and I can agree on this much, then we are
Christians.
Not really. You seem to have an elaborate system of
Christian reinterpretation. Maybe that's why you've included
alt.messianic on your list of ngs, because you do agree with
some Christian ideas. You seem to interpret the Devil to be
our ego. Is this true? And you seem to think the tree of
life is something we should not partake of. Perhaps you find
that to be too presumptuous a goal?
But this is contrary to the whole message in the Bible, that
the tree of life was something we should *want* to partake
of. Why reinterpret everything? Why not take it the way
Moses meant it to be taken? God wants to give us eternal
life. And Christ is the only vehicle through which this life
can be acquired.
Perhaps we both agree that the Law of Moses was a failure.
If so, Moses held out a goal that seemed impossible to
achieve. But Jesus assured us that he was the Messiah
through whom we can achieve life. Eternal life is not
something we should find too lofty a goal.
Take care,
randy
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
11 Jul 2007 02:14:11 AM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer"
"randy"
I don't have a problem if
Good for you. I have problems because I am a sinner.
Capice?
I wish you wouldn't be so esoteric or quirky.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Okay. Wish in one hand, and ***** in the other, and see which
one fills up first. Then go f__ck yourself you motherf__cker.
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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0nCJ+6gZRy7/Z/A81Gko46hH
=smWj
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| User: "Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
11 Jul 2007 01:59:59 AM |
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, "randy" <rkluth@wavecable.com> wrote:
Perhaps we both agree that the Law of Moses was a failure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Your own words prove that you and yours are Anti-Christian.
My Condolences,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRpR4NJljD7YrHM/nEQJGSACfbi8VBNdH3tX6rJkUSNv1PbJs4ZoAnRBq
bE59mPT0PIm01piPlnQMvYSr
=+/5F
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
09 Jul 2007 05:15:46 PM |
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On Jul 9, 5:10 am, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007, Aticineto <Aticin...@aol.com> wrote:
Greetings all,
I am new to this group, and I have been dealing with conflicting
emotions ofr the past two weeks, and I hope you can give me some
spiritual guidance.
You've probably heard about the sad case of wrestler Chris Benoit, how
murdered his wife Nancy and his 7 year old son Daniel before taking
his own life. My greatest sympathy, of course is for Nancy and
Daniel, they were innocent victims, and definitely did not deserve to
die as they did. Still, I can't help but feel a little sad for Chris
as well.
First, a little about myself so I can give you an idea of where i am
coming from. I am 43 years old, legally blind, and I have been a
wrestling fan for 31 years. In school, I was always the kid that the
others made fun of. As an adult, you learn to manage and deal with a
disability, and when you are a kid, you hate anything that makes you
different. While at a friend's house one day (back in 1976), he had
wrestling on, and I was taken buy the individuality of the sport. It
was a world where it was okay to be different, and hardly anyone had
the body builder, steroid induced look you see in wrestling today.
The business was different too - it gave the illusion of a competitive
sport, rather than the over the top choreographed )and dangerous)
moves they perform today.
One story that stuck me back then was that of a wrestler named Bobby
Shane, who died in a plane crash in 1975. Just something about his
story moved me, and I carried it with me into adulthood. In 2002, I
wrote a story about him, and took my first ever plane trip, a trip in
honor of Bobby's memory, to his hometown of St. Louis. There i met
his uncle Larry, and despite a gap in our ages (Larry is 36 years
older than me), he has become the best friend I have ever had. . I
also attend an annual reunion of retired wrestlers, (where last year,
I accepted a posthumous award for Bobby Shane on behalf of his
family). So, in a very real way, wrestling has been a very important
part of my life, and, in a small way, i am a part of that world.
Again, it is a vastly different world than the current wreslting (the
WWE), which I watch from time to time, but i am not a huge fan of.
Chris Benoit was a wrestler that most of us old-time fans admired. He
wrestled in a style that was reminiscent to the heroes of our youth.
He was pretty much a low key wrestler, and we never heard much about
his life away from the ring.
On Monday, June 25, I, like many fans, learned that Benoit and his
family were found dead. In those initial hours, we had very little
information. We thought maybe carbon monoxide poisoning, or something
to that
effect. We mourned Chris Benoit that evening, but our shock turned to
horror as it was revealed that ti was a double murder/suicide. It
seemed so out of character for Benoit to do this, but, of course, we
only knew the man we saw at the arena and on television, we didn't
know him on a personal level.
There are many theories flying around, people trying to explain why he
did what he did. In my case, I am not trying to make excuses for
Chris Benoit, rather, I am trying to understand it all. I've never
known anyone who was killed, anyone who murdered anyone, or committed
suicide. Because of my connection with wrestling (through Bobby Shane
and the wrestling reunion i attend as well), I feel like I almost knew
Benoit by default - we were a part of wrestling, though in very
different ways. And since all this came out, I am trying to come to
grips with it and make some kind of sense of what happened.
There have been many friends of Benoit's who have stated on the news
shows what a kind and gentle guy he was. They don't understand how
he could have done this. Two video clips stand out in my mind - one
of him sobbing uncontrollably at the tribute to his best friend -
fellow wrestler Eddie Guerero - who died two years ago. The other is
of Benoit winning the world title at WrestleMania. Nancy and Daniel
came into the ring to celebrate with him, and Chris hugs and kisses
Daniel. It is such a tender moment, you would never believe in a
million years that Benoit would harm a hair on the boy's head, much
less murder him.
Then, there is the dark side of Chris Benoit. The one that Nancy
filed for divorce from in 2003 and got an order of protection
against. For whatever reason, Nancy decided to reconcile with him,
but by some accounts, their relationship remained rocky.
The theory that seems to be pretty much accepted right now is that
Nancy was planning to leave Chris for good. Instead of getting away
safely while he was on the road, she (courageously) waited to tell him
face to face, and he was enraged and killed her, and then he killed
their son the next day, and himself the day after that, and he left
bibles by Nancy and Daniel's bodies (can you tell me what the
reasoning for that may be. I'm assuming that was his way of praying
for them perhaps?). If this is indeed how it happened, it is
horrifying to say the least. As stated above, neither Nancy nor
Daniel deserved to die like that. I am a man of faith, so I believe
that they are with our Lord now and are in a much better place, but
that still doesn't ease the pain of their family and friends.
I look at a picture of Chris Benoit and I ask "why? Not as a
wrestling fan wanting to know why a great wrestler destroyed his
legacy, but why a man who had more than most people chose to do the
unthinkable. He and Nancy had a stormy marriage form the start, but
she loved him. After his friend Eddie Guererro died, she bought him a
journal to record his thoughts and to work his way through his grief.
How or why did he lash out at a woman who loved him, and tried to
stick by him? Sometime we do lash out most at the people who love us
the most. It just makes no sense.
I pray for Nancy and Daniel, but my sadness for Chris makes me pray
for him as well. Jesus said that for God, all things are possible,
and I do pray that if there was ever any good in Chris Benoit, that he
found salvation despite his acts.
Before all this, I saw things in black and white terms. A murderer
was a murderer, and I thought it was foolish to try to understand why
someone would kill. But now, I am the one looking to understand it, I
see articles where he is called a child killer, and it breaks my heart
that that's his legacy.
So I ask you, is it misguided of me to have such sympathy (sadness,
compassion) for a man who committed such a horrible act? I know he is
not the victim here (and believe me, I have sadness for the victims),
but I sadness for him as well.
Thank you for your time,
Sincerely,
Alfred T
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
You sound sincere, so I'll attempt to help you to answer your own
question, because all the real answers are within you, so it's up
to you to discover these answers for yourself...
Remember this, all men are Created equal, and all mortal men are
born in sin. Each one of us are born with more than enough bad
karma to go around for everybody. We are essentially born to die,
and of whatever cause, and at whatever age, whether in childhood
or adulthood, by the revolutions of the heavens, as foreordained.
The best way to conquer grief is to conquer--rather master--your
own ego-self. The more love and attention you direct toward God,
and therefore direct toward your fellow human beings, the better
off you'll be. This frail, mortal, human body could die tomorrow,
but our immortal soul-body is eternal, having no beginning, and
no ending. Your spirit-person, your soul, is immortal, as are the
immortal souls of all higher vertebrates (ever-developing souls).
In conclusion, try to help others, including those temporarily-
discarnate souls who're grounded in Limbo, such as the troubled
immortal souls of murder victims often are. Help them toward the
Light, just as you would help the souls of your fellow man find
the Light whilst yet incarnate in the mortal body. The Light is
the Light of Jesus Christ, which is the very same Light that is
in all men. Help others to find the Light, that you may find it
also. I know, that's a lot easier said than done, in a world of
hideously dark, evil, self-aggrandizing, mammon-worshipping men.
If you care so much about the discarnate souls of Chris Benoit
& his immediate family, pray for them. Or even take the time to
actually visit the crime scene, and hold a seance for them, and
ask them if they need help moving toward the Light. Consult a
reputable psychic medium, psychic detective, like those gifted
psychics who help law-enforcement professionals solve unsolved
murders and other hideous crimes. Or consult an orthodox priest,
a shaman, anyone whom you trust. Make your own personal effort,
if it means that much to you. Otherwise, simply accept what is,
pray the LORD's prayer in earnest, & let the dead bury the dead.
Hope that helps,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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Profound, or just a wank?
LB
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Guidance needed |
09 Jul 2007 05:35:28 PM |
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On Jul 9, 6:15 pm, "leigh8...@optusnet.com.au"
<leigh8...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On Jul 9, 5:10 am, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
Wanker.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/Buffoon.html
Profound, or just a wank?
LB
-PF, Atl.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
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