| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eeyore" |
| Date: |
10 Nov 2005 04:00:02 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
In article <53f3n1h7lbsb1dftdfje1no1nq30oe0395@4ax.com>, "Jon"
<jon@upfold.co.za> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 04:49:47 GMT, "Brian J Dawson" <nospam@spiderfree.com>
wrote in message <Ldfcf.7097$941.327@trndny02>:
I believe one of the founders saw a friendly light and that was his vision
of Higher Power. Just the same vision as the founders of "Divine Science"
which is a New Thought Denomination experienced. Some core AA teaching did
come from an older movement which I was fundementalist. But AA was always
broader than that.
Currently many fundementalists and pentecosteral folks find AA to be
anti-Christian as the very term "Higher Power" was always considered to be
anathema. On the other hand there are 16 Step programs where one takes
inventory of how "captitalism/patriarchal society" has damaged their lives.
http://kbs.mahost.org/pw/16step.html
Also there are militant atheist and secular programs some affiliated with
Rational Emotive Therapy.
Such as "Rational Recovery" and "Smart Recovery". There is also just a plain
secular recovey too I believe.
From what I know of AA I think it presents a good broad based program.
Brian J Dawson
www.AquarianFreeThinker.com
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
--
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
........who is then at liberty to find for himself a more suitable group.
The bottom line is that in AA's hands the sufferer is unlikely to starve
or to die. That is a lot for people who have otherwise no hope and no
future, and all AA ever asks in return is one day at a time - and if that
is too much, one hour at a time - or even one minute.
And if even that is too much they will settle for the sufferer sharing
their tea, sandwiches and cakes as a drunk amongst his peers
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
04 Dec 2005 07:25:12 AM |
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Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics and drug addicts.
they're incorrigible and they can't be trusted.
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| User: "Gary Scoville" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
18 Dec 2005 11:49:13 PM |
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Jon wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to
offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that
seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics and drug
addicts.
they're incorrigible and they can't be trusted.
You sound like a very upset ex-NA/AA member that hasn't made it yet.
Keep coming.
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
19 Dec 2005 07:11:55 AM |
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Gary Scoville wrote:
Jon wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to
offer help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that
seek to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended.
However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics and drug
addicts.
they're incorrigible and they can't be trusted.
You sound like a very upset ex-NA/AA member that hasn't made it yet.
Keep coming.
....wrong, dilbert...
nobody needs a cult to fix anything.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
06 Dec 2005 05:38:59 PM |
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On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:25:12 +0200, Jon <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics and drug addicts.
they're incorrigible and they can't be trusted.
Yes there is. But they have to do it themselves.
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
08 Dec 2005 12:19:24 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:25:12 +0200, Jon <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics and drug addicts.
they're incorrigible and they can't be trusted.
Yes there is. But they have to do it themselves.
the only thing an alcoholic will do for himself is to pour himself another
drink.
a crack addict will take another hit.
a heroin addict will spike themselves again.
that's all they are prepared to do.
ask them to wait even 1 hour before they use, and they go apeshit.
they want it NOW, no delays!!!
they're worthless scum. I've tried reasoning with them so many times. I felt
that since I had been an addict myself, I would be able to convince them.
They are not interested in any discussion. All they want is drugs, and
nothing but drugs.
I should just kill them and put them out of their misery. It's about all one
can do for them.
They're like suffering animals. They should just be put down. Euthanased.
I support that.
Kill the doggies!
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
04 Dec 2005 09:49:49 AM |
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Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics.
........who is then at liberty to find for himself a more suitable group.
The bottom line is that in AA's hands the sufferer is unlikely to starve
or to die. That is a lot for people who have otherwise no hope and no
future, and all AA ever asks in return is one day at a time - and if that
is too much, one hour at a time - or even one minute.
And if even that is too much they will settle for the sufferer sharing
their tea, sandwiches and cakes as a drunk amongst his peers
.
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| User: "WhewNotSaved" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
09 Dec 2005 02:30:44 AM |
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"Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote in message
news:dn4h42$qke$7@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to
offer
help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that
seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics.
Not TRUE!!! Give 'em a drink, they'll feel much better, be happier and
have a mind of their own.
........who is then at liberty to find for himself a more suitable group.
The bottom line is that in AA's hands the sufferer is unlikely to starve
or to die. That is a lot for people who have otherwise no hope and no
future, and all AA ever asks in return is one day at a time - and if that
is too much, one hour at a time - or even one minute....
Nooo.... KEEP COMING BACK... is NOT one day at a time. It's a lifetime
commitment for people who
"where born defective" "have no will power"... blah barf gag..
You wanna talk GOD? Why hasn't he saved the millions who are brainwashed by
these hardcore TRADITIONAL methodists? Steppers are the most difficult to
de-program of all the cults.
They have more double talk than Puh Por key pah pour key p p p pig!
They say it's not religious... what's with the Lard's Prayer on the wall
and at the end of each 'session'.
And howabout "GOD give me the.... barf barf..."? And "by the GRACE OF
GOD..."
Biggest crock a ***** there is, lots of sex though, easy pickin's
WHEW!!!
And if even that is too much they will settle for the sufferer sharing
their tea, sandwiches and cakes as a drunk amongst his peers
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
09 Dec 2005 11:59:25 AM |
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On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:30:44 -0800, "WhewNotSaved" <d.stefano@comcast.net>
wrote in message <N5udnRTX9KXIcQXenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com>:
"Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote in message
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to
offer help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that
seek to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics.
Not TRUE!!! Give 'em a drink, they'll feel much better, be happier and
have a mind of their own.
i like drunk bitches. they're just so easy to rape.
You wanna talk GOD? Why hasn't he saved the millions who are brainwashed by
these hardcore TRADITIONAL methodists? Steppers are the most difficult to
de-program of all the cults.
why de-program at all?
just cull, cull, cull.
let's talk about what Satan would want us to do?
***** "what would Jesus do?"
what would Satan do?
Satan is freedom, baby. go on sin some more. be a devil. heh heh heh.
They have more double talk than Puh Por key pah pour key p p p pig!
They say it's not religious... what's with the Lard's Prayer on the wall
and at the end of each 'session'.
And howabout "GOD give me the.... barf barf..."? And "by the GRACE OF
GOD..."
Biggest crock a ***** there is, lots of sex though, easy pickin's
WHEW!!!
you'd ***** a junkie?
Satan wouldn't ***** a junkie. he'd kill her tho. much more satisfying.
see the ***** blubber when she knows that there's no more hope for her. she
knows that that knife is gonna tear her little defenceless body apart.
see her sob. see her whine.
gives you a woody, don't it?
now cut yerself a piece of vixen. chew slowly. aaaah. life is good.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "WhewNotSaved" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
10 Dec 2005 12:13:41 AM |
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"Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote in message
news:nurip19gqjo3lv9bsf75o1csip7lu4sq01@4ax.com...
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:30:44 -0800, "WhewNotSaved" <d.stefano@comcast.net>
wrote in message <N5udnRTX9KXIcQXenZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com>:
"Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote in message
Eeyore wrote:
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to
offer help.
No it isn't - but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that
seek to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended. However ALL
AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics.
Not TRUE!!! Give 'em a drink, they'll feel much better, be happier and
have a mind of their own.
i like drunk bitches. they're just so easy to rape.
I'm a woman, you're disgusting.
You wanna talk GOD? Why hasn't he saved the millions who are brainwashed
by
these hardcore TRADITIONAL methodists? Steppers are the most difficult to
de-program of all the cults.
why de-program at all?
just cull, cull, cull.
let's talk about what Satan would want us to do?
***** "what would Jesus do?"
what would Satan do?
No, what would Betty Bowers do?
Satan is freedom, baby. go on sin some more. be a devil. heh heh heh.
You're dumb
They have more double talk than Puh Por key pah pour key p p p pig!
They say it's not religious... what's with the Lard's Prayer on the wall
and at the end of each 'session'.
And howabout "GOD give me the.... barf barf..."? And "by the GRACE OF
GOD..."
Biggest crock a ***** there is, lots of sex though, easy pickin's
WHEW!!!
you'd ***** a junkie?
LOL... I was married to one.. I left HIM when I found out... you idiot
Satan wouldn't ***** a junkie. he'd kill her tho. much more satisfying.
I guess you're referring to yourself. Are you a closet queen? You sure do
hate us women.
Did you get a willy bad bwoken heart? Awwww shucksies
see the ***** blubber when she knows that there's no more hope for her.
she
knows that that knife is gonna tear her little defenceless body apart.
see her sob. see her whine.
gives you a woody, don't it?
Last time I looked, the only woody I had was a wagon and a pencil
now cut yerself a piece of vixen. chew slowly. aaaah. life is good.
You're such a pig
WhewNotaSickFuckOfaCreepWithAlimpDickLikeYouScumbag
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
.
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
10 Dec 2005 12:49:29 AM |
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WhewNotSaved wrote:
"Jon" <jon@upfold.co.za> wrote in message
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:30:44 -0800, "WhewNotSaved" <d.stefano@comcast.net>
NA / AA groups don't assist anyone.
there is still very little that can be done for alcoholics.
Not TRUE!!! Give 'em a drink, they'll feel much better, be happier and
have a mind of their own.
i like drunk bitches. they're just so easy to rape.
I'm a woman, you're disgusting.
that's generally how women are now taught to view men.
a century ago, women respected men and men repaid the courtesy.
nowadays, all semblance of politeness and mutual respect are gone.
Oprah, for instance, encourages women to adopt an outright hostile attitude
towards men, and a total intolerance of anything that does not suit them.
marriage as an institution does not stand a chance in this socially
degenerate environment.
we are all witnessing the decline into the gutter of modern society.
some day human society may be reduced to the existence of rats - all
fighting and clawing and screeching for what each individual wants and to
hell with everyone else.
You wanna talk GOD? Why hasn't he saved the millions who are brainwashed
by
these hardcore TRADITIONAL methodists? Steppers are the most difficult to
de-program of all the cults.
why de-program at all?
just cull, cull, cull.
let's talk about what Satan would want us to do?
***** "what would Jesus do?"
what would Satan do?
No, what would Betty Bowers do?
suck Satan's *****.
Satan is freedom, baby. go on sin some more. be a devil. heh heh heh.
You're dumb
how do you know?
They have more double talk than Puh Por key pah pour key p p p pig!
They say it's not religious... what's with the Lard's Prayer on the wall
and at the end of each 'session'.
And howabout "GOD give me the.... barf barf..."? And "by the GRACE OF
GOD..."
Biggest crock a ***** there is, lots of sex though, easy pickin's
WHEW!!!
you'd ***** a junkie?
LOL... I was married to one.. I left HIM when I found out... you idiot
no, you didn't. you stuck around for awhile.
Satan wouldn't ***** a junkie. he'd kill her tho. much more satisfying.
I guess you're referring to yourself. Are you a closet queen? You sure do
hate us women.
Did you get a willy bad bwoken heart? Awwww shucksies
no, most men are actually heterosexual, contrary to what women and faggots
are now trying to force on men.
see the ***** blubber when she knows that there's no more hope for her.
she knows that that knife is gonna tear her little defenceless body apart.
see her sob. see her whine.
gives you a woody, don't it?
Last time I looked, the only woody I had was a wagon and a pencil
you mentioned "easy sex". that is a key phrase used by most men.
women usually find it terribly easy to get fucked. men aren't too fussy
usually, when they're offered it.
when i was a young man i used to think that i would never refuse sex. i
discovered otherwise. i don't like women coming onto me and offering me sex.
for some reason, i'm not comfortable with that scenario.
i've had it happen a number of times in my life, always much to my surprise,
and i have mostly turned them down.
i'm much more comfortable with the usual situation of me wanting sex from a
woman, and she playing hard to get. it makes me want her all the more. but
if i'm handed it on a plate, i have no appetite for it.
now cut yerself a piece of vixen. chew slowly. aaaah. life is good.
You're such a pig
why? i chewed with my mouth closed. i do have some breeding!
WhewNotaSickFuckOfaCreepWithAlimpDickLikeYouScumbag
it's irrelevant to you what the state of my erection is. you're never going
to see it.
.
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| User: "Greg Evans" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
10 Dec 2005 02:57:45 AM |
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WhewNotSaved wrote:
what would Satan do?
No, what would Betty Bowers do?
What would Brian Boitano do?
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| User: "Douglas D. Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
10 Dec 2005 01:53:39 PM |
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Greg Evans wrote:
WhewNotSaved wrote:
what would Satan do?
No, what would Betty Bowers do?
What would Brian Boitano do?
Hug Richard Simmons?
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| User: "Jon" |
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| Title: Re: Has Alcoholics Anonymous Lost its Way? |
11 Nov 2005 12:21:10 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:00:02 +1100, (Eeyore) wrote in
message <House-1011051500020001@ppp2a8c.dyn.pacific.net.au>:
In article <53f3n1h7lbsb1dftdfje1no1nq30oe0395@4ax.com>, "Jon"
<jon@upfold.co.za> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 04:49:47 GMT, "Brian J Dawson" <nospam@spiderfree.com>
I believe one of the founders saw a friendly light and that was his vision
of Higher Power. Just the same vision as the founders of "Divine Science"
which is a New Thought Denomination experienced. Some core AA teaching did
come from an older movement which I was fundementalist. But AA was always
broader than that.
Currently many fundementalists and pentecosteral folks find AA to be
anti-Christian as the very term "Higher Power" was always considered to be
anathema. On the other hand there are 16 Step programs where one takes
inventory of how "captitalism/patriarchal society" has damaged their lives.
http://kbs.mahost.org/pw/16step.html
Also there are militant atheist and secular programs some affiliated with
Rational Emotive Therapy.
Such as "Rational Recovery" and "Smart Recovery". There is also just a plain
secular recovey too I believe.
From what I know of AA I think it presents a good broad based program.
Brian J Dawson
www.AquarianFreeThinker.com
no. AA / NA et al is a harmful religious cult which only pretends to offer
help.
No it isn't
any organisation that has as its goal to introduce people to a belief in God
is a harmful religious cult.
there is no god.
believing that god can save you from X, is a ridiculous superstitious
practice that should have been left behind millennia ago.
if God existed and performed miracles, as claimed in the NT, why did the
Black plague decimate Europe? why did tuberculosis claim so many?
until medicine found effective treatments for these problems, people died
from them. God cured no-one.
today, God cures no one of drug addiction or alcoholism. God does not help
in anyway. God is merely a placebo for alcoholics and drug addicts. When
they believe God is helping them, they feel better. their morale improves
and they feel more able to resist their habit.
that is the placebo effect.
people who get better while taking placebos are dupes. they're suckers. they
don't have a real problem. they have a problem their mind has invented.
placebos do not cure real problems.
anyone who gets better by taking a placebo, could use any method they
believe is effective. if they believed that raping 10 babies would cure
them, then it would.
so, it is fair to state then that believing in God or raping 10 babies are
equally effective treatments for any imaginary problem, provided the person
believes that it will help them.
however, drug addiction is not an imaginary problem for most addicts. it is
a real problem. placebos avail nothing, hence the low success rate of all
current drug treatments.
vaccines offer drug addicts the most hope. when they become available, the
drug addiction problem will most likely be tamed and 12 steps groups will
fade away. the drug rehabilitation clinics will close, just like the TB
clinics did.
Oprah will cut off her own head in public in penitence for all the rubbish
she has spewed.
- but there are renegade Christian dominated groups that seek
to use AA for purposes for which it was not intended.
cults within cults within cults.
buy one religious cult, get three for free.
why are you so gullible?
why do you not demand proof?
However ALL AA
groups will first and foremost assist the sufferer.......
.......who is then at liberty to find for himself a more suitable group.
The bottom line is that in AA's hands the sufferer is unlikely to starve
or to die. That is a lot for people who have otherwise no hope and no
future,
there are always alternatives.
and all AA ever asks in return is one day at a time - and if that
is too much, one hour at a time - or even one minute.
And if even that is too much they will settle for the sufferer sharing
their tea, sandwiches and cakes as a drunk amongst his peers
it's not that cozy in practice.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Jon Upfold, universal arsehole, ***** extraordinaire
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