| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mephisto" |
| Date: |
12 Dec 2005 11:40:00 PM |
| Object: |
Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
Mephisto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
13 Dec 2005 06:14:09 AM |
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On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Susan
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
13 Dec 2005 10:51:20 AM |
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<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lWynf.29319$Wo2.16915@trnddc04...
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Which is probably exactly what it was.
What's worse? This scene here or the nativity scene at my neighbor's house
down the street which includes a snowman and a rather faded-looking plastic
Santa leering down at baby Jesus?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
14 Dec 2005 09:09:26 AM |
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Robibnikoff wrote:
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lWynf.29319$Wo2.16915@trnddc04...
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Which is probably exactly what it was.
What's worse? This scene here or the nativity scene at my neighbor's house
down the street which includes a snowman and a rather faded-looking plastic
Santa leering down at baby Jesus?
Jolly old Saint Nicholas,
Lean your ear this way.
You don't want a single soul
To hear what I will say.
I have got some Polaroids,
Now you nasty man:
Tell me what you'll bring to me,
Tell me if you can.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
14 Dec 2005 11:28:53 AM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:43A035A6.217A742D@serv.net...
Robibnikoff wrote:
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lWynf.29319$Wo2.16915@trnddc04...
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians;
vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty,
nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Which is probably exactly what it was.
What's worse? This scene here or the nativity scene at my neighbor's
house
down the street which includes a snowman and a rather faded-looking
plastic
Santa leering down at baby Jesus?
Jolly old Saint Nicholas,
Lean your ear this way.
You don't want a single soul
To hear what I will say.
I have got some Polaroids,
Now you nasty man:
Tell me what you'll bring to me,
Tell me if you can.
Bwahahaha! Brilliant! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
14 Dec 2005 09:08:08 AM |
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wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
You appear to have no understanding of what constitutes a hate crime. It is
extremely unlikely that this petty theft was designed to "threaten or
intimidate members of a class, or persons because of perceived membership in
a class." You would be very, very hard pressed to support your accusation.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
13 Dec 2005 10:59:41 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:14:09 GMT, wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:46 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
If society insists upon having idiotic "hate-crime" laws, then they
should
be applied equally. This criminal act was directed at Christians; vile
hatred being the motivation.
Somebody stole a small statue with no significant monetary value and
moved another small statue of a sheep.
Hold the front fucking page.
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Precisely. They probably moved a statue for a joke and stole another
one. What's the big deal? Are carven idols really that important in
Christianity, or is this a massive and ridiculous over-reaction?
I don't see the same outrage when someone's Darwin fish is mutilated.
There is no difference. Each is just a symbol of belief and has little
intrinsic value.
Some people need to regain a sense of perspective. There is no
evidence that this incident was motivated by 'hatred', and it is is so
insignificant I doubt it'd even make my local paper (and that's full
of 'girl's escaped hamster found in bin' stories).
Mephisto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
13 Dec 2005 02:21:15 PM |
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On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Precisely. They probably moved a statue for a joke and stole another
one. What's the big deal? Are carven idols really that important in
Christianity, or is this a massive and ridiculous over-reaction?
I don't see the same outrage when someone's Darwin fish is mutilated.
You would from *me*.
Personal property is personal property.
There is no difference. Each is just a symbol of belief and has little
intrinsic value.
Well, we don't know how much the Jesus statuette cost....
Some people need to regain a sense of perspective. There is no
evidence that this incident was motivated by 'hatred',
True, it wasn't as blatant as the latest crap from U.Va....
Susan
and it is is so
insignificant I doubt it'd even make my local paper (and that's full
of 'girl's escaped hamster found in bin' stories).
.
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
13 Dec 2005 07:47:22 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:21:15 GMT, wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty, nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Precisely. They probably moved a statue for a joke and stole another
one. What's the big deal? Are carven idols really that important in
Christianity, or is this a massive and ridiculous over-reaction?
I don't see the same outrage when someone's Darwin fish is mutilated.
You would from *me*.
Personal property is personal property.
Quite so. That makes this a case of theft. The rest is just
unnecessary noise from people who appear to believe that the law
should apply differentlty to them. Theft becomes a hate crime.
There is no difference. Each is just a symbol of belief and has little
intrinsic value.
Well, we don't know how much the Jesus statuette cost....
It looked a bit crappy in the picture. It wasn't made of gold or
anything. No doubt it caused some inconvenience and had to be
replaced, and a crime is a crime, but the tone of the OP was
unbelievably OTT.
Some people need to regain a sense of perspective. There is no
evidence that this incident was motivated by 'hatred',
True, it wasn't as blatant as the latest crap from U.Va....
Which is?
Mephisto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
14 Dec 2005 07:24:35 AM |
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On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:21:15 GMT, wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty,
nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Precisely. They probably moved a statue for a joke and stole another
one. What's the big deal? Are carven idols really that important in
Christianity, or is this a massive and ridiculous over-reaction?
I don't see the same outrage when someone's Darwin fish is mutilated.
You would from *me*.
Personal property is personal property.
Quite so. That makes this a case of theft. The rest is just
unnecessary noise from people who appear to believe that the law
should apply differentlty to them. Theft becomes a hate crime.
There is no difference. Each is just a symbol of belief and has little
intrinsic value.
Well, we don't know how much the Jesus statuette cost....
It looked a bit crappy in the picture.
If you saw the same picture *I* saw, that porcelain was at least *made*
to look like Lladro, which is & very expensive. But it might have been a
deliberate confusion by WorldNet ( the photo looked like a catalogue
copy, not a casual snapshot of the missing figurine), & therefore it might
indeed, not be worth all that much. Which, to my mind, suggests hate
crime even more strongly. Why steal something cheap unless you'r e
*trying* to be obnoxiouis on purpose? The theft of *just* the Jesus
figurine also leads me to believe it was a spiteful act; if they were out
for something of value, they would have gotten more than just the Jesus
figure.
It's the moving of the a sheep into the bed that leads me to believe
it wasn't so much a "hate crime" as a nasty prank. I think it's a kid or
group thereof, and he (yeah, I'm sure it's a guy - hormonal reasons)
&/or they should get a couple weeks community service to work off
their "energy".
I say it's a hate crime, but not like defacing a graveyard or - as I,
personally saw (the aftermath, not the committing), the whacking off
the head of a Mary statue (This forced the church to put a plexiglass
box over their 3 figure creche).
You know it's sad when you have to hope somehting is "just vandalism."
It wasn't made of gold or
anything. No doubt it caused some inconvenience and had to be
replaced, and a crime is a crime, but the tone of the OP was
unbelievably OTT.
Oh, sure - J.Young is a jackass.
Some people need to regain a sense of perspective. There is no
evidence that this incident was motivated by 'hatred',
True, it wasn't as blatant as the latest crap from U.Va....
Which is?
A leading African-American syudent had that oh-so-special word
sprayed *specifically* on *his* door - along with "I Hate Jesus".
Well, that doesn't surprise me, either - that loser had a LOT of
hate in him.
But the upshot of the artiucle I read (Newsweek, hard copy) was
that U.VA is a hotbed of racial hatred they've been trying to
overcome for the past few years.
Susan
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
14 Dec 2005 09:29:29 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:24:35 GMT, wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:21:15 GMT, wrote:
On 13-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
If they did it to be malicious it *is* a hate crime, and a petty,
nasty
one.
The sad thing is that it sounds like it might have just been someone's
idea of a *joke*.
Precisely. They probably moved a statue for a joke and stole another
one. What's the big deal? Are carven idols really that important in
Christianity, or is this a massive and ridiculous over-reaction?
I don't see the same outrage when someone's Darwin fish is mutilated.
You would from *me*.
Personal property is personal property.
Quite so. That makes this a case of theft. The rest is just
unnecessary noise from people who appear to believe that the law
should apply differentlty to them. Theft becomes a hate crime.
There is no difference. Each is just a symbol of belief and has little
intrinsic value.
Well, we don't know how much the Jesus statuette cost....
It looked a bit crappy in the picture.
If you saw the same picture *I* saw, that porcelain was at least *made*
to look like Lladro, which is & very expensive. But it might have been a
deliberate confusion by WorldNet ( the photo looked like a catalogue
copy, not a casual snapshot of the missing figurine), & therefore it might
indeed, not be worth all that much. Which, to my mind, suggests hate
crime even more strongly. Why steal something cheap unless you'r e
*trying* to be obnoxiouis on purpose? The theft of *just* the Jesus
figurine also leads me to believe it was a spiteful act; if they were out
for something of value, they would have gotten more than just the Jesus
figure.
Think about it. They wanted to show the figures worshipping a sheep
instead of Jesus, so of course it made sense to remove the Jesus
figure. It looks like they were trying to make a joke.
It's the moving of the a sheep into the bed that leads me to believe
it wasn't so much a "hate crime" as a nasty prank. I think it's a kid or
group thereof, and he (yeah, I'm sure it's a guy - hormonal reasons)
&/or they should get a couple weeks community service to work off
their "energy".
I say it's a hate crime, but not like defacing a graveyard or - as I,
personally saw (the aftermath, not the committing), the whacking off
the head of a Mary statue (This forced the church to put a plexiglass
box over their 3 figure creche).
A hate crime infers hatred. There is no evidence that the perpetrator
hated anything.
You know it's sad when you have to hope somehting is "just vandalism."
Why hope? What difference does it make?
What I find disturbing is the number of people who have taken this
prank and turned it into a 'victimisation of Christians' thing. It's
daft. Same goes for the idiots insisting that saying 'Happy Holidays'
is anti-Christian. We're all expected to treat a crime differently
(more seriously) if it's perpetrated against Christians. Thus, a minor
theft suddenly becomes a 'hate crime'.
Consider this: if you do not happen to believe in Christianity then
the nativity scene is just some toy animals and people. That's all
they are to me. A lack of respect and hatred/spitefulness are not the
same thing.
It wasn't made of gold or
anything. No doubt it caused some inconvenience and had to be
replaced, and a crime is a crime, but the tone of the OP was
unbelievably OTT.
Oh, sure - J.Young is a jackass.
The press reaction has, IMO, been equally idiotic. Stuff gets nicked
all the time and it doesn't get that sort of exposure.
Some people need to regain a sense of perspective. There is no
evidence that this incident was motivated by 'hatred',
True, it wasn't as blatant as the latest crap from U.Va....
Which is?
A leading African-American syudent had that oh-so-special word
sprayed *specifically* on *his* door - along with "I Hate Jesus".
Well, that doesn't surprise me, either - that loser had a LOT of
hate in him.
But the upshot of the artiucle I read (Newsweek, hard copy) was
that U.VA is a hotbed of racial hatred they've been trying to
overcome for the past few years.
There are idiots everywhere, but that was very obviously a hate-crime.
Moving some little statues is not.
Mephisto
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
15 Dec 2005 08:23:36 AM |
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On 14-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
There are idiots everywhere, but that was very obviously a hate-crime.
Moving some little statues is not.
Out of fairness, I am willing to coinsider it might bem even tho' I,
personally, also think that it probably is just a stupid kid being
obnoxious.
I guess I didn't make it clear enough, because I *was* trying to
point out how it *could* be one.
I also haven't heard anything, news-wise, *except* from the whacko
J. Young. I have even e-mailed someone *in* Port St. Lucie - I've
heard nothing back.
Susan
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
15 Dec 2005 07:54:23 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:23:36 GMT, wrote:
On 14-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
There are idiots everywhere, but that was very obviously a hate-crime.
Moving some little statues is not.
Out of fairness, I am willing to coinsider it might bem even tho' I,
personally, also think that it probably is just a stupid kid being
obnoxious.
I guess I didn't make it clear enough, because I *was* trying to
point out how it *could* be one.
It could also have been stolen by someone who was scared of babies;
who has a serious sheep fetish and wanted to show sheep being
worshipped; who collects small statues; who did it for a bet; who had
that piece missing from their own set; who objected to the worship of
graven images. I just see no reason to waste time considering the many
possibilities until someone owns up and explains it.
I also haven't heard anything, news-wise, *except* from the whacko
J. Young. I have even e-mailed someone *in* Port St. Lucie - I've
heard nothing back.
He gets his information from neurotic conspiracy theory websites, but
I've seen it mentioned on other Christian sites. Most of the stories
that involve US Christians at this time of the year seem to involve a
large chunk of paranoia mixed with a complete absence of supporting
facts.
War on Christmas - my arse.
Mephisto
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| User: "IT" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
15 Dec 2005 06:29:50 PM |
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Was it the real Baby Jesus or a plastic replica?
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:I%eof.32781$Wo2.23196@trnddc04...
On 14-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
There are idiots everywhere, but that was very obviously a hate-crime.
Moving some little statues is not.
Out of fairness, I am willing to coinsider it might bem even tho' I,
personally, also think that it probably is just a stupid kid being
obnoxious.
I guess I didn't make it clear enough, because I *was* trying to
point out how it *could* be one.
I also haven't heard anything, news-wise, *except* from the whacko
J. Young. I have even e-mailed someone *in* Port St. Lucie - I've
heard nothing back.
Susan
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| User: "Nightshade" |
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| Title: Re: 'Hate-crime' possibility: Baby Jesus kidnapped |
16 Dec 2005 01:28:45 AM |
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:29:50 -0500, While I was gettin a beer,
somebody wrote:
Was it the real Baby Jesus or a plastic replica?
With modern copying techniques, and modern plastics, it can be really
difficult to tell the difference, these days.
<flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:I%eof.32781$Wo2.23196@trnddc04...
On 14-Dec-2005, Mephisto <mephisto@go.away> wrote:
There are idiots everywhere, but that was very obviously a hate-crime.
Moving some little statues is not.
Out of fairness, I am willing to coinsider it might bem even tho' I,
personally, also think that it probably is just a stupid kid being
obnoxious.
I guess I didn't make it clear enough, because I *was* trying to
point out how it *could* be one.
I also haven't heard anything, news-wise, *except* from the whacko
J. Young. I have even e-mailed someone *in* Port St. Lucie - I've
heard nothing back.
Susan
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