| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"MarkA" |
| Date: |
26 Aug 2003 06:59:45 AM |
| Object: |
Re: inarticulate atheists |
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:46:30 +0000, Nakas wrote:
I've been watching all the new coverage of the whole Alabama 10
commandments fiasco for the past couple days. I've found it curious that
even though atheists tend to be better educated than the fundies, atheists
just don't seem to be as skillful in front of a camera. The fundies are
so much better at giving powerful and motivating speeches. Just look at
Moore. Regardless of whether or not you agree with him, you have to admit
that that man knows how to work the crowd. Maybe it's something they
learn from watching sermons in church. Afterwards they showed the guy
from Georgia chapter of American Atheists to argue the opposing opinion.
Even though the guy was right, he just didn't sell his point. He reminded
me of that antisocial guy from the movie Office Space that gets relegated
to the basement. He just didn't have the charisma. The same with Newdow.
I don't understand why someone so smart, and with all the facts and all
the laws on his side, allows himself to consistently get his ***** kicked by
fundies in debates. I see this pattern over and over again. The fundies
make this out to be an epic battle between good and evil, and they work
everyone into a frenzy. Atheists on the other hand cavil about the
difference between "freedom of religion" and "freedom from religion", and
they put everyone to sleep.
Passion is always more persuasive than logic; that's why religions (in
general) are so popular to begin with. Many religions are heavily
involved in "selling" their point of view. Atheists, OTOH, are not really
trying to win converts, they are trying to be left alone.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: inarticulate atheists |
27 Aug 2003 06:28:07 AM |
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:59:45 +0000, MarkA wrote:
Passion is always more persuasive than logic; that's why religions (in
general) are so popular to begin with. Many religions are heavily
involved in "selling" their point of view. Atheists, OTOH, are not really
trying to win converts, they are trying to be left alone.
IIRC soc. psy. properly, it has been found that emotional, but weak,
arguments are more efficient than rational arguments when the person is
not too involved in the topic at hand. IE in that case, someone who has
never thought about separation of church and state and basically doesn't
give a *****, is going to be easily impressed by brainless propaganda.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: inarticulate atheists |
26 Aug 2003 07:07:27 AM |
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:59:45 GMT, "MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:46:30 +0000, Nakas wrote:
I've been watching all the new coverage of the whole Alabama 10
commandments fiasco for the past couple days. I've found it curious that
even though atheists tend to be better educated than the fundies, atheists
just don't seem to be as skillful in front of a camera. The fundies are
so much better at giving powerful and motivating speeches. Just look at
Moore. Regardless of whether or not you agree with him, you have to admit
that that man knows how to work the crowd. Maybe it's something they
learn from watching sermons in church. Afterwards they showed the guy
from Georgia chapter of American Atheists to argue the opposing opinion.
Even though the guy was right, he just didn't sell his point. He reminded
me of that antisocial guy from the movie Office Space that gets relegated
to the basement. He just didn't have the charisma. The same with Newdow.
I don't understand why someone so smart, and with all the facts and all
the laws on his side, allows himself to consistently get his ***** kicked by
fundies in debates. I see this pattern over and over again. The fundies
make this out to be an epic battle between good and evil, and they work
everyone into a frenzy. Atheists on the other hand cavil about the
difference between "freedom of religion" and "freedom from religion", and
they put everyone to sleep.
Passion is always more persuasive than logic; that's why religions (in
general) are so popular to begin with. Many religions are heavily
involved in "selling" their point of view. Atheists, OTOH, are not really
trying to win converts, they are trying to be left alone.
You left out the Limbaugh technique beloved of theists: bigoted
falsehoods as premises, non sequiturs to reach "conclusions" they
accept because they agree with their prejudices.
This is sound-byte culture at its worst.
In other words so much wrong that explanations take longer than their
limited attention span.
And which are also beyond their dumbed-down thought processes and
limited vocabulary.
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: inarticulate atheists |
26 Aug 2003 05:03:08 PM |
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:07:27 +0000, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:59:45 GMT, "MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:46:30 +0000, Nakas wrote:
I've been watching all the new coverage of the whole Alabama 10
commandments fiasco for the past couple days. I've found it curious
that even though atheists tend to be better educated than the fundies,
atheists just don't seem to be as skillful in front of a camera. The
fundies are so much better at giving powerful and motivating speeches.
Just look at Moore. Regardless of whether or not you agree with him,
you have to admit that that man knows how to work the crowd. Maybe
it's something they learn from watching sermons in church. Afterwards
they showed the guy from Georgia chapter of American Atheists to argue
the opposing opinion. Even though the guy was right, he just didn't
sell his point. He reminded me of that antisocial guy from the movie
Office Space that gets relegated to the basement. He just didn't have
the charisma. The same with Newdow.
I don't understand why someone so smart, and with all the facts and
all
the laws on his side, allows himself to consistently get his ***** kicked
by fundies in debates. I see this pattern over and over again. The
fundies make this out to be an epic battle between good and evil, and
they work everyone into a frenzy. Atheists on the other hand cavil
about the difference between "freedom of religion" and "freedom from
religion", and they put everyone to sleep.
Passion is always more persuasive than logic; that's why religions (in
general) are so popular to begin with. Many religions are heavily
involved in "selling" their point of view. Atheists, OTOH, are not
really trying to win converts, they are trying to be left alone.
You left out the Limbaugh technique beloved of theists: bigoted falsehoods
as premises, non sequiturs to reach "conclusions" they accept because they
agree with their prejudices.
This is sound-byte culture at its worst.
In other words so much wrong that explanations take longer than their
limited attention span.
And which are also beyond their dumbed-down thought processes and limited
vocabulary.
The ability to "work a crowd" is much different from the ability to
analyze a problem and come to a workable solution. People really do
respond to emotional "triggers" even if they wouldn't hold up under
critical examination. That is how advertising, scamming, psychic
phenomena, and stage magic work, not to mention religion. Oddly, it does
not seem to be common knowledge that this is true.
Complex problems usually require complex solutions. However, if you just
want to sell a point of view, keep it short, simple, loud, and repeat it
often.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: inarticulate atheists |
27 Aug 2003 06:29:16 AM |
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:03:08 +0000, MarkA wrote:
Complex problems usually require complex solutions.
Considering the christian problem, I think the solution of having them all
jump off a cliff is not that complex.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: inarticulate atheists |
27 Aug 2003 06:46:44 AM |
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:29:16 +0200 in alt.atheism, Divin Marquis
(Divin Marquis <postmaster@127.0.0.1>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:03:08 +0000, MarkA wrote:
Complex problems usually require complex solutions.
Considering the christian problem, I think the solution of having them all
jump off a cliff is not that complex.
but think of the waste disposal problem.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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